G'day George & List, I'm descended from a William RICE of Hobart. When I holidayed in Hobart a few years ago, I was quite pleased to see in the Tasmanian Museum's Numismatic display a Maori War medal named to Pte William RICE. I followed this up: he is not related to my family. But he married twice in Hobart. His first marriage was witnessed by another coupl, the groom of which was also a 2/14 soldier. Years later, the widower RICE remarried, to his former best-man's widow. This William RICE fathered a large family, and I gather there may still be descendants in Hobart. The medal was donated to the Museum by a Mrs RICE in the 1960s. My original notes aren't handy right now. My home computer has crashed and I'm too frustrated to get it repaired just now. But I had BDM details of all of the above. Peter T DARWIN From "George Ward" <[email protected]> Date Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:45:57 +1100 To [email protected] Subject Re: 2nd Bn, 14th RoF Good evening all, Re 1068 Pte William Rice. I have just checked his discharge and he was discharged in Melbourne on 24th. January 1870. However on the back of his discharge it states that he was discharged at Hobart Town in February the same year. He died there in September 1916 aged 79. It appears to have been signed by Colonel Trevor. Peter it is interesting that you have also done some research on Pte.Rice Regards George Ward Melbourne ----- Original Message ----- From: "pmthomas" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 5:55 PM Subject: 2nd Bn, 14th RoF > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ----2f841a5374e440fc > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > G'day, I researched William RICE, a member of 2/14 Foot (turned out to > be a red herring). At least part of that Regiment ended up in Hobart, > where they were stationed for a few years. Many soldiers, including > Maori War Veterans, took their discharge in Tasmania. > > It is likely that the Regiment was transported on several ships, > possibly over a protracted period, so your second question may not have > a simple answer. > > > Peter THOMAS > DARWIN NT > > >From "Val Harris" <[email protected]> > Date Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:02:35 +1100 > To [email protected] > Subject 2nd Bn 14th RoF > > > I am researching my great grandfather who was an Irishman from Dublin. > He joined the British Army aged 19 yrs in 1860 and was sent to NZ > during the Maori Wars. His name was William McAllister Enlistment No. > 1674. He was in the 2nd Battn 14th Reg of Foot. He departed Queenstown > Cork on the ship "Henry Fernie" on 24th April 1861 arriving Auckland NZ > on 25th July 1861. The Capt. was W. Hamilton. The 2/14th Reg departed > NZ in 1867 for Australia. > > Are you able to tell me the name of the ship the 2/14th Reg departed NZ > on in 1867 and the date and also the date the ship arrived in Melbourne > Victoria. I am still searching the films (AJCP) at the State Library in > Brisbane. I have found quite a number of quarterly pay muster sheets > listing his name but can't find the name of the ship that transported > the regiment to Australia in 1867. > > Maria Mercer

Have a quick look at http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/qualification.htm to see if any of the badges/stripes are the same or similar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lina Moffitt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: four stripes, help pls > what rank is signified by 4 stripes on the arm of a WW 1 uniform? there is a badge above these as well. nothing on the collar, he's wearing leather boots to the knee and a strap over the right shoulder down the chest, joining on the left side of a waist belt. photo dated 1918. > > This guy, Hilton John Dewar, served with the Queen's household cavalry and was a standard bearer at her funeral (Qn Vic), then was in the Boer War and then came to Australia as an adviser to our military. > > I cant find anything about him on the AWM site. > > thanks and regards > Lina >

The strap you refer to will be part of a Sam Browne belt. Compare your photo to those on http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-uniforms/sam_browne.htm to verify. It would indicate that he was an officer (commissioned or warrant) which might help explain the stripes and badge above. A little more details would help speed identification, and if you can email a scanned photo so much the better Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lina Moffitt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: four stripes, help pls > what rank is signified by 4 stripes on the arm of a WW 1 uniform? there is a badge above these as well. nothing on the collar, he's wearing leather boots to the knee and a strap over the right shoulder down the chest, joining on the left side of a waist belt. photo dated 1918. > > This guy, Hilton John Dewar, served with the Queen's household cavalry and was a standard bearer at her funeral (Qn Vic), then was in the Boer War and then came to Australia as an adviser to our military. > > I cant find anything about him on the AWM site. > > thanks and regards > Lina >

To help we will need to know where on the arm the stripes were. Upper arm, lower arm, left or right or both? Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lina Moffitt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: four stripes, help pls > what rank is signified by 4 stripes on the arm of a WW 1 uniform? there is a badge above these as well. nothing on the collar, he's wearing leather boots to the knee and a strap over the right shoulder down the chest, joining on the left side of a waist belt. photo dated 1918. > > This guy, Hilton John Dewar, served with the Queen's household cavalry and was a standard bearer at her funeral (Qn Vic), then was in the Boer War and then came to Australia as an adviser to our military. > > I cant find anything about him on the AWM site. > > thanks and regards > Lina >

There might be a significant difference between my day and the early 1900's, but 4 stripes upside down with a badge above could have been a Drum Major, Bugle Major, or Provost Sergeant, as this is a man in a Cavalry Unit they might have something slightly different, like a Troop Sergeant Major, or similar position. Just an idea. Roger Royal Marines Member RMHS Researching Copelin, Pont, Attrell, Deacon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lina Moffitt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:51 PM Subject: four stripes, help pls > what rank is signified by 4 stripes on the arm of a WW 1 uniform? there is a badge above these as well. nothing on the collar, he's wearing leather boots to the knee and a strap over the right shoulder down the chest, joining on the left side of a waist belt. photo dated 1918. > > This guy, Hilton John Dewar, served with the Queen's household cavalry and was a standard bearer at her funeral (Qn Vic), then was in the Boer War and then came to Australia as an adviser to our military. > > I cant find anything about him on the AWM site. > > thanks and regards > Lina >

what rank is signified by 4 stripes on the arm of a WW 1 uniform? there is a badge above these as well. nothing on the collar, he's wearing leather boots to the knee and a strap over the right shoulder down the chest, joining on the left side of a waist belt. photo dated 1918. This guy, Hilton John Dewar, served with the Queen's household cavalry and was a standard bearer at her funeral (Qn Vic), then was in the Boer War and then came to Australia as an adviser to our military. I cant find anything about him on the AWM site. thanks and regards Lina

Hello to anyone out there who could find some record of service of William Mould DODDS who was listed as pensioner (army) on his death cert. in 1900. He died in Broken Hill and had been in West NSW since 1875. Ta Evelyn

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----27926e335e65528 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G'day, this subject has attracted some discussion (see below). As I understand it, promotion by purchase ceased after the great reforms which followed the Crimean War. So I doubt if Isandlwana should be in the list below. The conventional, modern view, is that it was a bad system. For the sake of debate, I'll offer some contrary thoughts: the Empire was in a state of almost continual growth under the old system, and produced such great Victories as the conquest of India, Canada, and Napoleon in the Peninsular Campaign; since the old system was abolished, the Empire has shrunk to a handful of islands in the North Sea; and, more seriously, the promotion was purchased from the previous incumbent. This purchase price was, in effect, the out-going officer's lump-sum on retirement. Without it, and in the absence of a comprehensive retirement program, some officers may have been forced to stay past their use-by dates. Don't forget that Colonels had to pay for the whole Regiment's uniforms. Booty and plunder were shared between officers and men: not equally, of course, and the Colonel took the lion's share. It was a different system, but I wonder if anything since is a significant improvement... Peter THOMAS DARWIN NT >From "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> Date Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:01:08 +1100 To [email protected] Subject Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 The British Army in those times sold positions of rank for Officers to the aristocracy. I believe the purchaser had to be approved by the Colonel of the Regiment concerned. The officer had to provide his own horse, uniforms, tailor made of course, servant, weapons and the accoutrements that went with it. The quality of these Officers left a lot to be desired when it came to combat, they might have been the ants pants in the social aspects of things but they cost many a 'tommy' his life because of their stupidity, arrogance and general lack of common sense. Several events spring to mind, the Charge of the Light Brigade, the withdrawal from Afghanistan in the 1800's, the Indian Mutiny, Isandlwana. ... Best Regards Paul Kinney ----27926e335e65528 Content-Type: text/plain AUS-MILITARY-D Digest Volume 03 : Issue 17 Today's Topics: #1 Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 ["Paul Kinney" <[email protected]] #2 Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 ["Paul Kinney" <[email protected]] #3 Pvt Joseph Henry Graham MM-18th Bn [Colgan <[email protected]>] #4 2nd Bn 14th RoF ["Val Harris" <[email protected]] Administrivia: To unsubscribe from AUS-MILITARY-D, send a message to [email protected] that contains in the body of the message the command unsubscribe and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. ______________________________ ----27926e335e65528 X-Message: #1 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:10:59 +1100 From: "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Lina, >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:00:01 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> ><< message8.txt >> ><< message10.txt >> ><< message12.txt >> ><< message14.txt >> ><< message16.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ______________________________ ----27926e335e65528 X-Message: #2 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:01:08 +1100 From: "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Lina, The British Army in those times sold positions of rank for Officers to the aristocracy. I believe the purchaser had to be approved by the Colonel of the Regiment concerned. The officer had to provide his own horse, uniforms, tailor made of course, servant, weapons and the accoutrements that went with it. The quality of these Officers left a lot to be desired when it came to combat, they might have been the ants pants in the social aspects of things but they cost many a 'tommy' his life because of their stupidity, arrogance and general lack of common sense. Several events spring to mind, the Charge of the Light Brigade, the withdrawal from Afghanistan in the 1800's, the Indian Mutiny, Isandlwana. The term vice followed by a name indicates the person being replaced. The following explanation may help. You supplied, 17 Rgt of Lt Drag-Brevet Major J Lawrence to be Major, by purchase, vice, St. Quentin. Translation 17th Regiment of Light Dragoons - Brevet Major J Lawrence to be Major (Brevet - rank given to an officer as an honorary position, without the corresponding pay. Lawrence would have been paid as a Captain.), by purchase (he got the money together to pay for his Majority), vice (replacing) St.Quentin. The changes of rank for all officers where gazetted and you can believe this was a very popular read amongst the officers. Also in your email in the same section there is an instance of a gentleman being promoted from that illustrious position to Cornet. Cornet equates to todays rank of second Lieutenant, pronounced 'Lefttenant' in the British and Australian armies and 'Lootenant' in the American. I think I would prefer to be Left than a Loo. Hope I have not been stating the obvious to you Lina, but I got the impression that the double speak of military aphorisms had left you in the dark, a bit. If any of the above helps, enjoy. Best Regards Paul Kinney >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:00:01 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> ><< message8.txt >> ><< message10.txt >> ><< message12.txt >> ><< message14.txt >> ><< message16.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ______________________________ ----27926e335e65528 X-Message: #3 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:43:13 -0800 From: Colgan <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: Pvt Joseph Henry Graham MM-18th Bn AIF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to the list This is my first communciation. My great uncle was awarded his Military Medal in France on 10th July 1917 whilst serving with the 18th Bat. He was born on 18/9/75 in Omagh, Co Tyrone Ireland - father Thomas Graham - mother - Mary Jane Mills. He was married to Jeannie Harrison and had five children. John, Robert, Margaret, Dorothy and Alice. Joseph was gassed in 1918 and was invalided back to Australia after some hospital time in UK. He died in Sydney in 1923. Bob Colgan ______________________________ ----27926e335e65528 X-Message: #4 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:02:35 +1100 From: "Val Harris" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: 2nd Bn 14th RoF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am researching my great grandfather who was an Irishman from Dublin. He joined the British Army aged 19 yrs in 1860 and was sent to NZ during the Maori Wars. His name was William McAllister Enlistment No. 1674. He was in the 2nd Battn 14th Reg of Foot. He departed Queenstown Cork on the ship "Henry Fernie" on 24th April 1861 arriving Auckland NZ on 25th July 1861. The Capt. was W. Hamilton. The 2/14th Reg departed NZ in 1867 for Australia. Are you able to tell me the name of the ship the 2/14th Reg departed NZ on in 1867 and the date and also the date the ship arrived in Melbourne Victoria. I am still searching the films (AJCP) at the State Library in Brisbane. I have found quite a number of quarterly pay muster sheets listing his name but can't find the name of the ship that transported the regiment to Australia in 1867. Maria Mercer ----27926e335e65528--

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----2f841a5374e440fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G'day, I researched William RICE, a member of 2/14 Foot (turned out to be a red herring). At least part of that Regiment ended up in Hobart, where they were stationed for a few years. Many soldiers, including Maori War Veterans, took their discharge in Tasmania. It is likely that the Regiment was transported on several ships, possibly over a protracted period, so your second question may not have a simple answer. Peter THOMAS DARWIN NT >From "Val Harris" <[email protected]> Date Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:02:35 +1100 To [email protected] Subject 2nd Bn 14th RoF I am researching my great grandfather who was an Irishman from Dublin. He joined the British Army aged 19 yrs in 1860 and was sent to NZ during the Maori Wars. His name was William McAllister Enlistment No. 1674. He was in the 2nd Battn 14th Reg of Foot. He departed Queenstown Cork on the ship "Henry Fernie" on 24th April 1861 arriving Auckland NZ on 25th July 1861. The Capt. was W. Hamilton. The 2/14th Reg departed NZ in 1867 for Australia. Are you able to tell me the name of the ship the 2/14th Reg departed NZ on in 1867 and the date and also the date the ship arrived in Melbourne Victoria. I am still searching the films (AJCP) at the State Library in Brisbane. I have found quite a number of quarterly pay muster sheets listing his name but can't find the name of the ship that transported the regiment to Australia in 1867. Maria Mercer ----2f841a5374e440fc X-Message: #1 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:10:59 +1100 From: "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Lina, >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:00:01 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> ><< message8.txt >> ><< message10.txt >> ><< message12.txt >> ><< message14.txt >> ><< message16.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ______________________________ ----2f841a5374e440fc X-Message: #2 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:01:08 +1100 From: "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Lina, The British Army in those times sold positions of rank for Officers to the aristocracy. I believe the purchaser had to be approved by the Colonel of the Regiment concerned. The officer had to provide his own horse, uniforms, tailor made of course, servant, weapons and the accoutrements that went with it. The quality of these Officers left a lot to be desired when it came to combat, they might have been the ants pants in the social aspects of things but they cost many a 'tommy' his life because of their stupidity, arrogance and general lack of common sense. Several events spring to mind, the Charge of the Light Brigade, the withdrawal from Afghanistan in the 1800's, the Indian Mutiny, Isandlwana. The term vice followed by a name indicates the person being replaced. The following explanation may help. You supplied, 17 Rgt of Lt Drag-Brevet Major J Lawrence to be Major, by purchase, vice, St. Quentin. Translation 17th Regiment of Light Dragoons - Brevet Major J Lawrence to be Major (Brevet - rank given to an officer as an honorary position, without the corresponding pay. Lawrence would have been paid as a Captain.), by purchase (he got the money together to pay for his Majority), vice (replacing) St.Quentin. The changes of rank for all officers where gazetted and you can believe this was a very popular read amongst the officers. Also in your email in the same section there is an instance of a gentleman being promoted from that illustrious position to Cornet. Cornet equates to todays rank of second Lieutenant, pronounced 'Lefttenant' in the British and Australian armies and 'Lootenant' in the American. I think I would prefer to be Left than a Loo. Hope I have not been stating the obvious to you Lina, but I got the impression that the double speak of military aphorisms had left you in the dark, a bit. If any of the above helps, enjoy. Best Regards Paul Kinney >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:00:01 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> ><< message8.txt >> ><< message10.txt >> ><< message12.txt >> ><< message14.txt >> ><< message16.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ______________________________ ----2f841a5374e440fc X-Message: #3 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:43:13 -0800 From: Colgan <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: Pvt Joseph Henry Graham MM-18th Bn AIF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to the list This is my first communciation. My great uncle was awarded his Military Medal in France on 10th July 1917 whilst serving with the 18th Bat. He was born on 18/9/75 in Omagh, Co Tyrone Ireland - father Thomas Graham - mother - Mary Jane Mills. He was married to Jeannie Harrison and had five children. John, Robert, Margaret, Dorothy and Alice. Joseph was gassed in 1918 and was invalided back to Australia after some hospital time in UK. He died in Sydney in 1923. Bob Colgan ______________________________ ----2f841a5374e440fc X-Message: #4 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:02:35 +1100 From: "Val Harris" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: 2nd Bn 14th RoF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am researching my great grandfather who was an Irishman from Dublin. He joined the British Army aged 19 yrs in 1860 and was sent to NZ during the Maori Wars. His name was William McAllister Enlistment No. 1674. He was in the 2nd Battn 14th Reg of Foot. He departed Queenstown Cork on the ship "Henry Fernie" on 24th April 1861 arriving Auckland NZ on 25th July 1861. The Capt. was W. Hamilton. The 2/14th Reg departed NZ in 1867 for Australia. Are you able to tell me the name of the ship the 2/14th Reg departed NZ on in 1867 and the date and also the date the ship arrived in Melbourne Victoria. I am still searching the films (AJCP) at the State Library in Brisbane. I have found quite a number of quarterly pay muster sheets listing his name but can't find the name of the ship that transported the regiment to Australia in 1867. Maria Mercer ----2f841a5374e440fc--

Good evening all, Re 1068 Pte William Rice. I have just checked his discharge and he was discharged in Melbourne on 24th. January 1870. However on the back of his discharge it states that he was discharged at Hobart Town in February the same year. He died there in September 1916 aged 79. It appears to have been signed by Colonel Trevor. Peter it is interesting that you have also done some research on Pte.Rice Regards George Ward Melbourne ----- Original Message ----- From: "pmthomas" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 5:55 PM Subject: 2nd Bn, 14th RoF > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ----2f841a5374e440fc > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > G'day, I researched William RICE, a member of 2/14 Foot (turned out to > be a red herring). At least part of that Regiment ended up in Hobart, > where they were stationed for a few years. Many soldiers, including > Maori War Veterans, took their discharge in Tasmania. > > It is likely that the Regiment was transported on several ships, > possibly over a protracted period, so your second question may not have > a simple answer. > > > Peter THOMAS > DARWIN NT > > >From "Val Harris" <[email protected]> > Date Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:02:35 +1100 > To [email protected] > Subject 2nd Bn 14th RoF > > > I am researching my great grandfather who was an Irishman from Dublin. > He joined the British Army aged 19 yrs in 1860 and was sent to NZ > during the Maori Wars. His name was William McAllister Enlistment No. > 1674. He was in the 2nd Battn 14th Reg of Foot. He departed Queenstown > Cork on the ship "Henry Fernie" on 24th April 1861 arriving Auckland NZ > on 25th July 1861. The Capt. was W. Hamilton. The 2/14th Reg departed > NZ in 1867 for Australia. > > Are you able to tell me the name of the ship the 2/14th Reg departed NZ > on in 1867 and the date and also the date the ship arrived in Melbourne > Victoria. I am still searching the films (AJCP) at the State Library in > Brisbane. I have found quite a number of quarterly pay muster sheets > listing his name but can't find the name of the ship that transported > the regiment to Australia in 1867. > > Maria Mercer > > > > ----2f841a5374e440fc > > X-Message: #1 > Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:10:59 +1100 > From: "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Dear Lina, > > > > > > > > >From: [email protected] > >Reply-To: [email protected] > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 > >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:00:01 -0700 > > > ><< message2.txt >> > ><< message4.txt >> > ><< message6.txt >> > ><< message8.txt >> > ><< message10.txt >> > ><< message12.txt >> > ><< message14.txt >> > ><< message16.txt >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > ______________________________ > ----2f841a5374e440fc > > X-Message: #2 > Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:01:08 +1100 > From: "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Dear Lina, > The British Army in those times sold positions of rank for Officers > to the aristocracy. I believe the purchaser had to be approved by the > Colonel of the Regiment concerned. The officer had to provide his own horse, > uniforms, tailor made of course, servant, weapons and the accoutrements that > went with it. The quality of these Officers left a lot to be desired when it > came to combat, they might have been the ants pants in the social aspects of > things but they cost many a 'tommy' his life because of their stupidity, > arrogance and general lack of common sense. Several events spring to mind, > the Charge of the Light Brigade, the withdrawal from Afghanistan in the > 1800's, the Indian Mutiny, Isandlwana. The term vice followed by a name > indicates the person being replaced. The following explanation may help. > You supplied, > 17 Rgt of Lt Drag-Brevet Major J Lawrence to be Major, by purchase, > vice, St. Quentin. > Translation > 17th Regiment of Light Dragoons - Brevet Major J Lawrence to be > Major (Brevet - rank given to an officer as an honorary position, without > the corresponding pay. Lawrence would have been paid as a Captain.), by > purchase (he got the money together to pay for his Majority), vice > (replacing) St.Quentin. > The changes of rank for all officers where gazetted and you can believe this > was a very popular read amongst the officers. > Also in your email in the same section there is an instance of a > gentleman being promoted from that illustrious position to Cornet. > Cornet equates to todays rank of second Lieutenant, pronounced 'Lefttenant' > in the British and Australian armies and 'Lootenant' in the American. I > think I would prefer to be Left than a Loo. > Hope I have not been stating the obvious to you Lina, but I got the > impression that the double speak of military aphorisms had left you in the > dark, a bit. If any of the above helps, enjoy. > Best Regards > Paul Kinney > > > > > > >From: [email protected] > >Reply-To: [email protected] > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 > >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:00:01 -0700 > > > ><< message2.txt >> > ><< message4.txt >> > ><< message6.txt >> > ><< message8.txt >> > ><< message10.txt >> > ><< message12.txt >> > ><< message14.txt >> > ><< message16.txt >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > ______________________________ > ----2f841a5374e440fc > > X-Message: #3 > Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:43:13 -0800 > From: Colgan <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Subject: Pvt Joseph Henry Graham MM-18th Bn AIF > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi to the list > > This is my first communciation. My great uncle was awarded his Military > Medal > in France on 10th July 1917 whilst serving with the 18th Bat. He was > born on > 18/9/75 in Omagh, Co Tyrone Ireland - father Thomas Graham - mother - > Mary > Jane Mills. He was married to Jeannie Harrison and had five children. > John, Robert, > Margaret, Dorothy and Alice. > > Joseph was gassed in 1918 and was invalided back to Australia after some > hospital > time in UK. He died in Sydney in 1923. > > > Bob Colgan > > ______________________________ > ----2f841a5374e440fc > > X-Message: #4 > Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:02:35 +1100 > From: "Val Harris" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Subject: 2nd Bn 14th RoF > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > I am researching my great grandfather who was an Irishman from Dublin. He joined the British Army aged 19 yrs in 1860 and was sent to NZ during the Maori Wars. His name was William McAllister Enlistment No. 1674. He was in the 2nd Battn 14th Reg of Foot. He departed Queenstown Cork on the ship "Henry Fernie" on 24th April 1861 arriving Auckland NZ on 25th July 1861. The Capt. was W. Hamilton. The 2/14th Reg departed NZ in 1867 for Australia. > > Are you able to tell me the name of the ship the 2/14th Reg departed NZ on in 1867 and the date and also the date the ship arrived in Melbourne Victoria. I am still searching the films (AJCP) at the State Library in Brisbane. I have found quite a number of quarterly pay muster sheets listing his name but can't find the name of the ship that transported the regiment to Australia in 1867. > > Maria Mercer > > ----2f841a5374e440fc-- > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > RAAF Museum > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/ >

Maria I would ask the library to see if there is a shipping list for the 1867 period that you might be able to look up. If that is not available then it is a case of going to the Melbourne newspapers and looking at their shipping records At least you will know the quarter they arrived in Melbourne from their Muster Roll. You might find out, if any one was left in NZ from the comments column. This might give you an approx time of when they left NZ. Not sure if was sail or steam in that period. If steam I would add a week for arrival in Melbourne. If sail add about 2 weeks. Mike Boyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Val Harris <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:02 PM Subject: 2nd Bn 14th RoF > I am researching my great grandfather who was an Irishman from Dublin. He joined the British Army aged 19 yrs in 1860 and was sent to NZ during the Maori Wars. His name was William McAllister Enlistment No. 1674. He was in the 2nd Battn 14th Reg of Foot. He departed Queenstown Cork on the ship "Henry Fernie" on 24th April 1861 arriving Auckland NZ on 25th July 1861. The Capt. was W. Hamilton. The 2/14th Reg departed NZ in 1867 for Australia. > > Are you able to tell me the name of the ship the 2/14th Reg departed NZ on in 1867 and the date and also the date the ship arrived in Melbourne Victoria. I am still searching the films (AJCP) at the State Library in Brisbane. I have found quite a number of quarterly pay muster sheets listing his name but can't find the name of the ship that transported the regiment to Australia in 1867. > > Maria Mercer > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 > http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ >

I am researching my great grandfather who was an Irishman from Dublin. He joined the British Army aged 19 yrs in 1860 and was sent to NZ during the Maori Wars. His name was William McAllister Enlistment No. 1674. He was in the 2nd Battn 14th Reg of Foot. He departed Queenstown Cork on the ship "Henry Fernie" on 24th April 1861 arriving Auckland NZ on 25th July 1861. The Capt. was W. Hamilton. The 2/14th Reg departed NZ in 1867 for Australia. Are you able to tell me the name of the ship the 2/14th Reg departed NZ on in 1867 and the date and also the date the ship arrived in Melbourne Victoria. I am still searching the films (AJCP) at the State Library in Brisbane. I have found quite a number of quarterly pay muster sheets listing his name but can't find the name of the ship that transported the regiment to Australia in 1867. Maria Mercer

Hi to the list This is my first communciation. My great uncle was awarded his Military Medal in France on 10th July 1917 whilst serving with the 18th Bat. He was born on 18/9/75 in Omagh, Co Tyrone Ireland - father Thomas Graham - mother - Mary Jane Mills. He was married to Jeannie Harrison and had five children. John, Robert, Margaret, Dorothy and Alice. Joseph was gassed in 1918 and was invalided back to Australia after some hospital time in UK. He died in Sydney in 1923. Bob Colgan

Dear Lina, The British Army in those times sold positions of rank for Officers to the aristocracy. I believe the purchaser had to be approved by the Colonel of the Regiment concerned. The officer had to provide his own horse, uniforms, tailor made of course, servant, weapons and the accoutrements that went with it. The quality of these Officers left a lot to be desired when it came to combat, they might have been the ants pants in the social aspects of things but they cost many a 'tommy' his life because of their stupidity, arrogance and general lack of common sense. Several events spring to mind, the Charge of the Light Brigade, the withdrawal from Afghanistan in the 1800's, the Indian Mutiny, Isandlwana. The term vice followed by a name indicates the person being replaced. The following explanation may help. You supplied, 17 Rgt of Lt Drag-Brevet Major J Lawrence to be Major, by purchase, vice, St. Quentin. Translation 17th Regiment of Light Dragoons - Brevet Major J Lawrence to be Major (Brevet - rank given to an officer as an honorary position, without the corresponding pay. Lawrence would have been paid as a Captain.), by purchase (he got the money together to pay for his Majority), vice (replacing) St.Quentin. The changes of rank for all officers where gazetted and you can believe this was a very popular read amongst the officers. Also in your email in the same section there is an instance of a gentleman being promoted from that illustrious position to Cornet. Cornet equates to todays rank of second Lieutenant, pronounced 'Lefttenant' in the British and Australian armies and 'Lootenant' in the American. I think I would prefer to be Left than a Loo. Hope I have not been stating the obvious to you Lina, but I got the impression that the double speak of military aphorisms had left you in the dark, a bit. If any of the above helps, enjoy. Best Regards Paul Kinney >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:00:01 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> ><< message8.txt >> ><< message10.txt >> ><< message12.txt >> ><< message14.txt >> ><< message16.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Dear Lina, >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:00:01 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> ><< message8.txt >> ><< message10.txt >> ><< message12.txt >> ><< message14.txt >> ><< message16.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Some pages in the 1840 edition of "The Colonial Magazine and Commercial Maritime Index" includes info as follows. (As I am not of a military background, I cannot follow a lot of it but if it would be of importance to others, I would continue to transcribe it): LONDON GAZETTE WAR OFFICE DEC 31 1840 3d Regt of Lt Drag-Cornet and Adjutant J Sullivan to have the rank of Lieut Regt of Lt Drag-Lieut W Wilmer to be Capt by purchase, vice Jillard, who retired; Cornet M. Gwynne to be Lieut by purchase, vice Wilmer; D Maycock, gent., to be Cornet by purchase, vice Gwynne 17th regt of Lt Drag-Major M.C.D. St Quintin, to be Lieut-Col by purchase, vice Pratt, who retires; Brevet Major J Lawrence to be Major, by purchase, vice St Quintin; Lieut. Barrow to be Capt by purchase, vice Lawrence; Cornet A. S. Willet, to be Lieut, by purchase, vice Barrow. Coldstream Regt of Ft Guards-Cd W.L. Walton to be Lieut=-Col, by purchase, vice J Freemantle who retires upon half-pay unattached; Brevet Col. G Bowles to be Major, by purchase, vice Walton; ..Pearce, from half-pay unattached to be Capt. And Lieut.- Col., vice Bowles; Lieut and Capt the Hon. A. Upton to be Capt and Lieut-Col., by purchase, vice Pearce, who retires; Ensign and Lina

ARNOLD, LIEUT-COL. Robert, of H.M. 16th regt, of Lancers, on 20th Aug at Cabal in the East Indies ABINGTON, Wm, Esq late of the Cadet office E.I.H. on 20th Nov at Kentishtown BOLTON, G.E., youngest daughter of the late Capt George Bolton, Bengal European regt, on 11thNov at Ashstead CHAPMAN, F.W. Esq., of the Bengal Cavalry, on 22nd July at sea GIRDLESTONE, Miss E. Bolton, youngest daughter of Major W.B. Girdlestone HUTTON, William Esq many years an officer in the African Co's Service, and colonial secretary to the government of Gambia, on the 10th Nov at Wells, Somerset HARGOOD, ADMIRAL SIR W., G.C.B. G.C.H., on the 12th Dec at his residence in the Royal Crescent Bath JONES, MR N.I., late of the Indian Navy, on 14th Sept at Calcutta PROLE, MAJOR GEORGE, 3rd regt, Bengal N.I., on 15th Sept at Kedgeree ROBERTS, Edward Thos., son of Colonel Roberts, R.A., ensign in H.M. 44th regt of Foot, on board the ship Maitland, on her homeward passage STEWART, COLONEL JOSIAH, C.B., of the Establishment of Fort St George, Madras, on 28th Nov at Cheltenham STUBBS, Richmond Robert, youngest son of R. Stubbs Esq., surgeon in the H.E.I. Co's, service, on 20th May on his passage from Calcutta WELCH, Mrs, wife of Major General Welch, commander of northern division Madras Presidency on 24th July last, at Waltaine in the East Indies ...Lina

MARRIAGES GODFREY, Lieut. W.H. 17TH, Bombay, N.I., to Miss Mary Isabella Saunderson, on 5th Sept at Mhow SMITH, WILLIAM ESQ 55th B.N.I., to Maria St. Anne, youngest daughter of the late Lieut. Colonel Robert Francis of the Bengal Army, on 5th Sept at Fort William DONNY, H.R. Esq., 20th regt Bengal I., to Angela Hinxman, daughter of Jas. Lardner, Esq., of Dusseldorf, on 19th Nov at St Olave, Hart-street FIELD, CAPTAIN C., Bengal Establishment, to Miss Georgiana Field, on 26th Sept at St Margaret's Westminster TAYLOR, G.R., Esq., of Hyde Park Square, to Charlotte third daughter of the late James Wright, Esq of the .regt garrison surgeon to the forces, Martinique on 20th Nov at Paddington Church. ...Lina

Page 141 I dont know if this is of interest but here are some BDM's: BOYS, LIEUTENANT W., R.N., Lady, of a son, on 25th Oct at Prospect Cottage, Walmer CAMPBELL, CAPTAIN G., Grenadier Guards, lady, of a son, at Hillington House CHAPMAN, CAPTAIN A., lady, of a daughter, on 11th Nov, at Porchester Terrace, Bayswater DROUGH, LIEUTENANT, 65th regt, lady of a son, 22nd Oct in Dublin GLENNIE, LIEUTENANT W., R.N., lady, of a daughter, on 9th Nov at Bilton, Glouc. GASCOIGNE, LIEUT-COLONEL, lady, a daughter, at Dale Park, Sussex HADFIELD, CAPTAIN H.W., late of the Madras Army, lady of a son, 8th Nov at Barnstaple, Devizes HOOD, LADY MARY of a son on 15th Dec at the Marquis of Downshire's Hanover-Square HUNTER, W.J. Esq, of the Bombay C.S., lady, of a daughter, on 20th Nov at Edinburgh JOHNSON, LIEUT. R.N. lady of a daughter at Exeter MOORSOM, CAPTAIN, Scots Fusil. Guards, lady, of a son, London MERCER, COMMANDER, Samuel R.N., lady, of a daughter on 9th Dec at Lyme Regis NUTT, MAJOR, lady, of a daughter, Frankfort on the Maine OTWAY, LIEUT, K.I., R.N. lady of a daughter in Dublin SHAPSCOTE, LIEUT, R.N. lady of a dtr, at Devonport TREFUSIS, CAPTAIN, the Hon. G.R.W., R.N., lady of a son, on 29th Oct at Wear, Gifford WETHERELL, CAPTN R.S.M., lady of a son, on 10th Dec at ..House, Stratford near Guildford ...Lina

A Court of Directors was held at the East India-house on the 28th Nov (1840) when Lieutenant-General Sir Thomas McMahon, Bart., K.C.B., was sworn in Commander-in-Chief of the Company's Forces, and Second Member of Council on the Bombay Establishment. Sir Thomas McMahon afterwards dined with the Court at the London Tavern, Bishopsgate-street. Several officers of high military rank and other distinguished personages were also present at the dinner. ...Lina