I have a relative Claude Henry VAUTIN who was stationed at Bradfield Park Sydney on discharge from the RAAF in 1943. His rank was T/S/LDR. Does the T stand for 'Temporary'? the rest I assume is squadron leader. In WW1 he had flown with No.1 Squadron Australian Flying Corps in Palestine. Thanks for any help. Evan Smith - Qld

Hi Could someone tell me if this is an unusual or commomplace: I have just received records from Archives for a great uncle, some of the pages are virtually unreadable but from the 84 pages it would appear the man firstly tried to enlist June 1915 and was deemed unfit because of bad teeth, in April 1916 he again tried to enlist, this time he was successful but it was noted he had Curvature of the Spine and was only fit for "home duties". Then in September 1916 he was discharged "medically unfit - 1. Suffered Epilepsy - 2. Chronic Alcoholism his Papers marked "Of Bad Character" . However, in February 1917 he again enlisted and was accepted at Ballarat - On 1/8/1917 he was discharged - "no longer required". Records show he again enlisted in Nowra - February 1918 this time for overseas duty, he embarked for Europe several months later where it would appear he spent a lot of the time in Hospitals or AWOL, also a lot of disciplinary charges for drunkenness. He returned to! Aust., December 1919. All "enlistments" show same name, personal details etc., What I would like to know was it common place to reenlist several times over? Also would the Army have been aware of his past enlistments everytime he reenlisted? Thankyou Suzanne

There seems to be a fair bit of uncertainty/confusion about the differences/similarities between AIR, AMF, AIF, CMF, ACMF and PMF when it comes to researching rellies who were in the military. Could I suggest that interested parties have a look at http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-help/faq4.htm#difference Ted

It is an unfortunate truth that the Royal Australian Navy have no records of their badge before 1949 when a variation of the current badge gained Royal Assent. Is there anyone on the list who can fill in some of the gaps with copies of documents or copies of photos of RAN Badge pre 1949 Ted

On behalf of the rellies of Harold Joseph John WILLIAMS Edward John Quin and John Dewar I approached a UK based uniform expert, Tim Lovering He was able to help in all 3 cases with some new info or suggestions. All is revealed at The Uniform Id Wizard http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-uniforms/id-wizard.htm Ted

Hi Annie My best guess for the uniforn is ARTILLERY, as you can see the "flaming grenade" badge on his collar and the home service helmet has a ball, wheras infantry had a spike. The Engineer Corps have also worn the grenade badge at times. The uniform was in use from about the 1890's. The defence forces at the time were Colony based, ie each colony (state) had its own defence force, and the National Archives has muster rolls for a lot of the colony units, but they are not indexed. So the best bet is to work out where he was at the time and check the units around that area. Cheers Tom Corfmat Secretary Victorian Colonial Infantry Association Inc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "annieandwal" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:50 PM Subject: UNIFORM IDENTIFICATION > Hi List, > Could some kind soul look at my web site www.williamsfamilyoz.com go to the page on Harold Joseph John Williams and identify the uniform he is wearing. We think he was in the Boer War. Records only give us a Harold Williams and it is not enough for us to verify that it is his record. He is holding a white pith helmet in the photo. > regards, > Annie >

Sue Try the National Library in Canberra. When I lived in Canberra up to 6 years ago, there was an area that held old film. I am not sure if it was the Library or another body, but they should be able to tell you. Mike Boyd Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Griffin <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:05 PM Subject: NEWSREEL FOOTAGE > Hi > In 1946/1947 my father appeared in a Newsreel showing BCOF Forces in Japan. I would presume these Newsreels would have been show in Cinema's all over Australia. Can anybody tell me what would have happened to these Newsreels once they were shown and the possibility I could locate the existance of the one my father appeared in. > > Thankyou > Suzanne > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > Anzac Research > http://anzacresearch.tripod.com/index.htm >

Hi Sue and List, I wonder if the Sound and Film Archive in Canberra would be able to help. I am sorry but I don't know their telephone number. Selena -----Original Message----- From: Sue Griffin <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, 19 February 2003 15:27 Subject: NEWSREEL FOOTAGE >Hi > In 1946/1947 my father appeared in a Newsreel showing BCOF Forces in Japan. I would presume these Newsreels would have been show in Cinema's all over Australia. Can anybody tell me what would have happened to these Newsreels once they were shown and the possibility I could locate the existance of the one my father appeared in. > >Thankyou >Suzanne > > >==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== >Anzac Research >http://anzacresearch.tripod.com/index.htm

SMALL - Donald Joseph. Understand he served in Australian Navy from 1945/7. Any info appreciated. Colin Small _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp

SMALL - Donald Joseph. Trying to find out info about him. Believe he was in Australian Navy from around 1945/7. Any info appreciated. Colin Small _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp

. Screensound Australia - Home Page ScreenSound Australia, the National Screen and Sound Archive, collects, preserves and shares Australias film, video, television, stills and recorded sound ... Category: Reference > Museums > Arts and Entertainment > Film and Media > Film Archives http://www.screensound.gov.au/ selena wrote: > Hi Sue and List, > > I wonder if the Sound and Film Archive in Canberra would be able to help. I > am sorry but I don't know their telephone number. > > Selena > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue Griffin <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, 19 February 2003 15:27 > Subject: NEWSREEL FOOTAGE > > >Hi > > In 1946/1947 my father appeared in a Newsreel showing BCOF Forces in > Japan. I would presume these Newsreels would have been show in Cinema's all > over Australia. Can anybody tell me what would have happened to these > Newsreels once they were shown and the possibility I could locate the > existance of the one my father appeared in. > > > >Thankyou > >Suzanne > > > > > >==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > >Anzac Research > >http://anzacresearch.tripod.com/index.htm > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > RAAF Museum > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/

Hi In 1946/1947 my father appeared in a Newsreel showing BCOF Forces in Japan. I would presume these Newsreels would have been show in Cinema's all over Australia. Can anybody tell me what would have happened to these Newsreels once they were shown and the possibility I could locate the existance of the one my father appeared in. Thankyou Suzanne

Dear Annie, Try contacting the following, if any one can help you, these rascals should be able to; http://www.lighthorse.org.au/toc.htm Cheers Paul Kinney

Hi Annie, sorry but my system cannot open your page. I will try again later. In the mean time have a look at the Uniforms section of www.diggerhistory.info which start on http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-uniforms/00-uniforms-cat-index.htm Many people have found it helps Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "annieandwal" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 9:50 PM Subject: UNIFORM IDENTIFICATION > Hi List, > Could some kind soul look at my web site www.williamsfamilyoz.com go to the page on Harold Joseph John Williams and identify the uniform he is wearing. We think he was in the Boer War. Records only give us a Harold Williams and it is not enough for us to verify that it is his record. He is holding a white pith helmet in the photo. > regards, > Annie >

Hi List, Could some kind soul look at my web site www.williamsfamilyoz.com go to the page on Harold Joseph John Williams and identify the uniform he is wearing. We think he was in the Boer War. Records only give us a Harold Williams and it is not enough for us to verify that it is his record. He is holding a white pith helmet in the photo. regards, Annie

Hi again listmembers I was only able to make a quick post from work today re the recent discussions on this list. Aus-Military was set up to discuss matters relating to all aspects of Australian military history. This was not without some initial concerns from Rootsweb re the validity and potential interest, but they have proven to be a great list host and I would like this list to continue. I was always sure in my own mind that it was viable and it has proved to be so. From day one this list has been something that other lists are not - a very helpful forum with interested and helpful people contributing to broaden everyone's knowledge of Australian military history, without bickering. A certain amount of discussion is healthy but this has progressed far beyond that. Due to a very serious accident to my niece 9 days ago I had not monitored the postings as I should have. Please in the future have discussions but keep them general with some kind of documentation, this is not a forum for personal anger. I have never barred a list member yet and don't intend to. Just remember that the list is for questions and answers and reasonable, friendly discussion. If anyone has a problem with this please contact me off list at [email protected] Regards Viv

Hello List, Just a comment from an observer. I do not believe this list was not set up to be an avenue for dissent. I know people like to voice their own opinion, but please refer someone to a historical document to prove your point, if possible. Please keep on track here and keep the posts to the list of some relevance to the main focus of the list, not an avenue to prove you are right. Selena -----Original Message----- From: Annie and Wal <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Monday, 17 February 2003 22:44 Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 >Gentlemen Please >let us stop this I know more or my info is more accurate type of debate. >Australian soldiers have a pride and reputation which is envied by many >other nations. >Australia was the only country in the world to have a full force of >volunteers in WW1 >No conscripts - No call up, in fact you couldn't get in if you had a drilled >tooth. >No other Country in the world can boast this. And we should be proud. >There is always angst and rivalry between full time soldiers and those who >have come through the voluntary system eg. CMF or Nasho's. >I am a Viet Vet., there was always the competition between them and us. >However, I do not know of anyone who was FORCED to go to combat, maybe my >knowledge is a bit dim, but I don't think so. >Those anti Conscription were imprisoned for breaking the law, not because >they had to go overseas.Concientious objectors could still REMAIN in >Australia. >We went overseas of our own FREE will. (Is there any other country which >allows this???) This point I remember distinctly as a few mates were unable >to go because of health reasons, yes, even after training, and they were >very upset.(believe it or not- its the truth). >The original debate related to the awards system. >Yes, there are many who received awards due to them directly because of >their selflessness and others received awards due to others selflessness. >To term an Aussie quote "thems the breaks". >Our country has a fine Military (and other services ) heritage, and we will >always be proud of it. >A Campaign medal is not an award but shows where you served. If in that >Campaign there were Military awards for bravery beyound the call of Duty a >misnomer if there ever was one) at least you were part of it and should be >proud of those whose lost their lives to save a MATE. I looked after my >mate and he looked after me- that is the AUSTRALIAN TRADITION. Our heritage >is based on mateship from the convict days, do some geneaology research or >has this been forgotten). >Let us agree to disagree on finer points , but history shows that the >Australian serviceman can hold his/her head up high compared to other >nations. >For all those Aussies who died in their believe of our wonderful way of life >and freedom "LET US REMEMBER THEM" >Regards >Wal > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Maurie Tolley" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 1:44 PM >Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 > > >> Mr Harris >> >> I think you should remove your blinkers, 6, 7, 8 & 9 Divvies were AIF, the >> rest were AMF, AND a number of AIF soldiers did , and continue to, treat >> them as 2nd rate soldiers. 90 day wonders was also a term given the >> graduates from Scheyville during the Vietnam War, a number of whom did >> sterling work in Vietnam and some went on the command battalions. I never >> said Monash was a conscript, he was in the militia (a weekend warrior), an >> urban myth re the time spent in combat zones for Vietnam veterans, I >suggest >> you are swayed by an urban myth. >> >> M. Tolley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Val Harris <[email protected]> >> To: Maurie Tolley <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 11:35 PM >> Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 >> >> >> > unfortunately most of your reply is untrue >> > >> > 90 day wonders were National service men of the early 1950's so they did >> not >> > fight in every conflict in which Australia has been involved. >> > >> > Monash was never a conscript. He joined as a private soldier and worked >> his >> > way to the top as a VOLUNTEER >> > >> > EVERY soldier in WW2 was AMF. Some were AIF some were CMF some were both >> but >> > every one was a member of the AMF >> > >> > If you think I don't know about the 39th look at >> > >> > >> >http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/ww2/pages-2aif-cmf/39 - >> > battalion.htm >> > >> > Troops in Viet Nam did spend more of their time in combat zones than WW1 >> > Diggers. That is an urban myth. Sorry. >> > >> > Ted >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Maurie Tolley" <[email protected]> >> > To: <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:47 PM >> > Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 >> > >> > >> > > Mr Harris >> > > >> > > I think your attack on the "90 day wonders" and the "weekend warriors" >> is >> > > both spiteful and unwarranted. Many in both of these groups fought in >> > every >> > > conflict in which Australia has been involved. To just name a few, >Gen'l >> > Sir >> > > John Monash (WW1), Major Templeton of Kokoda fame, Tim Fischer of >> Vietnam >> > > and the list goes on and on. I guess the tripe that has infected >> > subsequent >> > > generations of veterans has not dimmed or diminished. The stigma that >> > > attached to AMF soldiers during WW2 is still felt today. Many AMF >> members >> > > tried to transfer to the AIF but were refused, many went on to fight >> > > valiantly and professionally in PNG and the South West Pacific >theatre. >> > Very >> > > few had the luxury of the many months of training enjoyed by AIF >> > formations >> > > in the Middle Est but still acquitted themselves magnificently. The >> 39th >> > > Battalion, (chockoes, weekend wonders, koalas etc wrote a page in >> > > Australia's Battle Honours that would be hard to equal, curious that >the >> > > 39th has not appeared in Australia's Order of Battle since they were >> > > disbanded. Jealousy, hypocrisy?)It brings to mind the patronising >> attitude >> > > directed at Vietnam Veterans by WW2 Veterans, Funny thing though, >troops >> > in >> > > Vietnam spent a greater percentage of their time in combat zones than >> any >> > > serviceman in previous wars. >> > > >> > > I guess those that are left grow old but, unfortunately some have >grown >> > > bitter. >> > > >> > > M Tolley >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: <[email protected]> >> > > To: <[email protected]> >> > > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:47 PM >> > > Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 >> > > >> > >> >> >> ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== >> The Military Historical Society of Australia >> http://www.pcug.org.au/~astaunto/mhsa.htm >> > > >==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== >Please support RootsWeb who make this list possible >http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html

Hi all It is time to move the current discussion on medals off-list. Would those involved please refrain from commenting on the matter any further through this list. Regards Viv (list admin)

You are entitled to your opinion, even when you are wrong. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurie Tolley" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; "Val Harris" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 2:44 PM Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 > Mr Harris > > I think you should remove your blinkers, 6, 7, 8 & 9 Divvies were AIF, the > rest were AMF, AND a number of AIF soldiers did , and continue to, treat > them as 2nd rate soldiers. 90 day wonders was also a term given the > graduates from Scheyville during the Vietnam War, a number of whom did > sterling work in Vietnam and some went on the command battalions. I never > said Monash was a conscript, he was in the militia (a weekend warrior), an > urban myth re the time spent in combat zones for Vietnam veterans, I suggest > you are swayed by an urban myth. > > M. Tolley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Val Harris <[email protected]> > To: Maurie Tolley <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 11:35 PM > Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 > > > > unfortunately most of your reply is untrue > > > > 90 day wonders were National service men of the early 1950's so they did > not > > fight in every conflict in which Australia has been involved. > > > > Monash was never a conscript. He joined as a private soldier and worked > his > > way to the top as a VOLUNTEER > > > > EVERY soldier in WW2 was AMF. Some were AIF some were CMF some were both > but > > every one was a member of the AMF > > > > If you think I don't know about the 39th look at > > > > > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/ww2/pages-2aif-cmf/39- > > battalion.htm > > > > Troops in Viet Nam did spend more of their time in combat zones than WW1 > > Diggers. That is an urban myth. Sorry. > > > > Ted > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Maurie Tolley" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:47 PM > > Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 > > > > > > > Mr Harris > > > > > > I think your attack on the "90 day wonders" and the "weekend warriors" > is > > > both spiteful and unwarranted. Many in both of these groups fought in > > every > > > conflict in which Australia has been involved. To just name a few, Gen'l > > Sir > > > John Monash (WW1), Major Templeton of Kokoda fame, Tim Fischer of > Vietnam > > > and the list goes on and on. I guess the tripe that has infected > > subsequent > > > generations of veterans has not dimmed or diminished. The stigma that > > > attached to AMF soldiers during WW2 is still felt today. Many AMF > members > > > tried to transfer to the AIF but were refused, many went on to fight > > > valiantly and professionally in PNG and the South West Pacific theatre. > > Very > > > few had the luxury of the many months of training enjoyed by AIF > > formations > > > in the Middle Est but still acquitted themselves magnificently. The > 39th > > > Battalion, (chockoes, weekend wonders, koalas etc wrote a page in > > > Australia's Battle Honours that would be hard to equal, curious that the > > > 39th has not appeared in Australia's Order of Battle since they were > > > disbanded. Jealousy, hypocrisy?)It brings to mind the patronising > attitude > > > directed at Vietnam Veterans by WW2 Veterans, Funny thing though, troops > > in > > > Vietnam spent a greater percentage of their time in combat zones than > any > > > serviceman in previous wars. > > > > > > I guess those that are left grow old but, unfortunately some have grown > > > bitter. > > > > > > M Tolley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <[email protected]> > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:47 PM > > > Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 > > > > > >

Gentlemen Please let us stop this I know more or my info is more accurate type of debate. Australian soldiers have a pride and reputation which is envied by many other nations. Australia was the only country in the world to have a full force of volunteers in WW1 No conscripts - No call up, in fact you couldn't get in if you had a drilled tooth. No other Country in the world can boast this. And we should be proud. There is always angst and rivalry between full time soldiers and those who have come through the voluntary system eg. CMF or Nasho's. I am a Viet Vet., there was always the competition between them and us. However, I do not know of anyone who was FORCED to go to combat, maybe my knowledge is a bit dim, but I don't think so. Those anti Conscription were imprisoned for breaking the law, not because they had to go overseas.Concientious objectors could still REMAIN in Australia. We went overseas of our own FREE will. (Is there any other country which allows this???) This point I remember distinctly as a few mates were unable to go because of health reasons, yes, even after training, and they were very upset.(believe it or not- its the truth). The original debate related to the awards system. Yes, there are many who received awards due to them directly because of their selflessness and others received awards due to others selflessness. To term an Aussie quote "thems the breaks". Our country has a fine Military (and other services ) heritage, and we will always be proud of it. A Campaign medal is not an award but shows where you served. If in that Campaign there were Military awards for bravery beyound the call of Duty ( a misnomer if there ever was one) at least you were part of it and should be proud of those whose lost their lives to save a MATE. I looked after my mate and he looked after me- that is the AUSTRALIAN TRADITION. Our heritage is based on mateship from the convict days, do some geneaology research ( or has this been forgotten). Let us agree to disagree on finer points , but history shows that the Australian serviceman can hold his/her head up high compared to other nations. For all those Aussies who died in their believe of our wonderful way of life and freedom "LET US REMEMBER THEM" Regards Wal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurie Tolley" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 1:44 PM Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 > Mr Harris > > I think you should remove your blinkers, 6, 7, 8 & 9 Divvies were AIF, the > rest were AMF, AND a number of AIF soldiers did , and continue to, treat > them as 2nd rate soldiers. 90 day wonders was also a term given the > graduates from Scheyville during the Vietnam War, a number of whom did > sterling work in Vietnam and some went on the command battalions. I never > said Monash was a conscript, he was in the militia (a weekend warrior), an > urban myth re the time spent in combat zones for Vietnam veterans, I suggest > you are swayed by an urban myth. > > M. Tolley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Val Harris <[email protected]> > To: Maurie Tolley <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 11:35 PM > Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 > > > > unfortunately most of your reply is untrue > > > > 90 day wonders were National service men of the early 1950's so they did > not > > fight in every conflict in which Australia has been involved. > > > > Monash was never a conscript. He joined as a private soldier and worked > his > > way to the top as a VOLUNTEER > > > > EVERY soldier in WW2 was AMF. Some were AIF some were CMF some were both > but > > every one was a member of the AMF > > > > If you think I don't know about the 39th look at > > > > > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/ww2/pages-2aif-cmf/39- > > battalion.htm > > > > Troops in Viet Nam did spend more of their time in combat zones than WW1 > > Diggers. That is an urban myth. Sorry. > > > > Ted > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Maurie Tolley" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:47 PM > > Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 > > > > > > > Mr Harris > > > > > > I think your attack on the "90 day wonders" and the "weekend warriors" > is > > > both spiteful and unwarranted. Many in both of these groups fought in > > every > > > conflict in which Australia has been involved. To just name a few, Gen'l > > Sir > > > John Monash (WW1), Major Templeton of Kokoda fame, Tim Fischer of > Vietnam > > > and the list goes on and on. I guess the tripe that has infected > > subsequent > > > generations of veterans has not dimmed or diminished. The stigma that > > > attached to AMF soldiers during WW2 is still felt today. Many AMF > members > > > tried to transfer to the AIF but were refused, many went on to fight > > > valiantly and professionally in PNG and the South West Pacific theatre. > > Very > > > few had the luxury of the many months of training enjoyed by AIF > > formations > > > in the Middle Est but still acquitted themselves magnificently. The > 39th > > > Battalion, (chockoes, weekend wonders, koalas etc wrote a page in > > > Australia's Battle Honours that would be hard to equal, curious that the > > > 39th has not appeared in Australia's Order of Battle since they were > > > disbanded. Jealousy, hypocrisy?)It brings to mind the patronising > attitude > > > directed at Vietnam Veterans by WW2 Veterans, Funny thing though, troops > > in > > > Vietnam spent a greater percentage of their time in combat zones than > any > > > serviceman in previous wars. > > > > > > I guess those that are left grow old but, unfortunately some have grown > > > bitter. > > > > > > M Tolley > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <[email protected]> > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:47 PM > > > Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 > > > > > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > The Military Historical Society of Australia > http://www.pcug.org.au/~astaunto/mhsa.htm >