Variation was/is 'Jimbob' Dean. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Val Harris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 2:57 PM Subject: Re: billyjim > Billjim was a term used to indicate any Digger whose name you did not know. > It was a combination of the 2 most common names, Bill and Jim. > > A bit like the more recent > > Joe Bloggs or Fred Nurk or John A Citizen > > In other words "a bloke" > > Ted > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shirley McLeod" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 6:30 PM > Subject: billyjim > > > > Would someone please tell me the origin of the term 'billyjim' in > association with The Australian Light Horse during WW 2. > > Thanks so much > > Shirley > > > > ______________________________ > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > First AIF Order of Battle 1914-1918 > http://www.adfa.edu.au/~rmallett/index.html >

To Shirley McLeod Dear Shirley, Try the 1/15 Royal New South Wales Lancers, Regimental Headquarters, Parramatta located at Lancer Barracks, Smith St(Cnr. Darcy St), Parramatta Phone 02 96357822. The unit has a brillian museum and some really good examples of armoured vehicles used by the Australian Army. I am sure that the staff of the museum will be only to happy to help. If it means you have to make an interstate call to get the information, contact me off list, and I will ring them for you, and pass on their response. Cheers Paul Kinney >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #55 >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:00:02 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp

Billjim was a term used to indicate any Digger whose name you did not know. It was a combination of the 2 most common names, Bill and Jim. A bit like the more recent Joe Bloggs or Fred Nurk or John A Citizen In other words "a bloke" Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shirley McLeod" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 6:30 PM Subject: billyjim > Would someone please tell me the origin of the term 'billyjim' in association with The Australian Light Horse during WW 2. > Thanks so much > Shirley > > ______________________________

Sorry that should heve read WW1 Shirley

Would someone please tell me the origin of the term 'billyjim' in association with The Australian Light Horse during WW 2. Thanks so much Shirley

Marion I would think that all would be from Gallipoli. Sorry but can't tell you what units they might be from. If you follow Peter Gibson's advice you may be able to find them on AWM or NAA websites. Mike Boyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Marion B Wilkinson <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:32 PM Subject: Does anyone recognise these men? > I have a photograph of a group of wounded Australian > soldiers taken, with their doctor and nurses, in May 1915 at > the Military Hospital, Valletta, Malta. > > Each man signed the photograph, they were: > M. DUNN, D. H. ALLAN, R. B. LEAHY, D. T. TOOHEY, L.J.WALLER, > E.J. SCOTT, B. TYDMAN? E.E. McLELLAND, John BURN, O. H? > ROBERTS, A. MONTGUE, W. [?]PUMMOND, H. B. WOOD and S.DEWEY > or DEWER. > > The photograph belongs to a niece of the doctor and she > would like to hear from anyone with knowledge of any of the > men. > > Regards > Marion Wilkinson > > I use Archive CD Books to help with my research > http://www.archivecdbooks.org > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > RAAF Museum > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/ >

I have a photograph of a group of wounded Australian soldiers taken, with their doctor and nurses, in May 1915 at the Military Hospital, Valletta, Malta. Each man signed the photograph, they were: M. DUNN, D. H. ALLAN, R. B. LEAHY, D. T. TOOHEY, L.J.WALLER, E.J. SCOTT, B. TYDMAN? E.E. McLELLAND, John BURN, O. H? ROBERTS, A. MONTGUE, W. [?]PUMMOND, H. B. WOOD and S.DEWEY or DEWER. The photograph belongs to a niece of the doctor and she would like to hear from anyone with knowledge of any of the men. Regards Marion Wilkinson I use Archive CD Books to help with my research http://www.archivecdbooks.org

Lenore raises an interesting issue with the National Archives on-line index which is a trap unless careful. The National Archives index, which is on-line, only contains a portion of the records of those who served in WW1 - for example, doing a search using the terms "NOK POE" (Next of kin and Place of Enlistment) with the time range 1914-1920, only brings up about 180,000 records, when we know that the overseas AIF alone was in the order of 400,000. On closer inspection, it appears that what they have done is made a start on the project, working alphabetically until they got to somewhere in the letter "G". They also have done some of the more common surnames after this (e.g. Smith), as this presumably helped their search staff, and they also appear to have placed entries where people have requested files, (as some of my file requests for letters such as M now appear on the list but didn't before; and the numbers of files indexed is slowly rising). This partially complete index can be frustrating, particularly when searching for "depot" soldiers, but we have to be realistic and recognise the magnitutude of the task and hope they keep on perservering. The tip is if you are fairly sure someone did serve, send them as many details as possible, and a file may turn up. Peter Gibson Queanbeyan NSW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenore Frost" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Andrew PRICE died WW1 at Gallipoli >From : "Ted White" <[email protected]> To : [email protected] >Subject : Andrew PRICE died WW1 at Gallipoli Date : Wed, 26 Feb 2003 >23:09:23 -0500 >Hello All >I am new to the list and have just found a memorial card amongst the > >possessions of an aunt. It is for Andrew PRICE who died in the First > >World War. The Commonwealth War Graves Commission site states that he > >was 798 Corporal Andrew PRICE of the 3rd Battalion, Australian >Infantry, >AIF and that he died on 29 April 1915 (age 49) . He is >commemorated on the >Lone Pine Memorial in Turkey. > >I would appreciate any help in finding out more about this soldier who >may >well be related. Would you please suggest sources of information >for me to >use especially any on line. Thanking you, Best wishes, Ted White, Burlington, Ontario, Canada. <[email protected]> Hi Ted, We have very good online resources for the First AIF. National Archives of Australia website should have an entry for his Enlistment and Army records in their catalogue, but having had a look for him, for some reason it does not appear. I have had this experience myself, and contacted them about a missing record, quoting his serial number and other known details, and somehow they found and copied a record for me - but it still doesn't appear in the catalogue. I don't know why. I would suggest you contact them about Andrew Price. They charge around $A17 for a set of soldier's documents, and they are well worth the money. http://www.naa.gov.au/ The next site you should look at is the Australian War Memorial which has a number of databases to look at. http://www.awm.gov.au See the nominal roll for the date of enlistment, death, and unit, mainly as a confirmation. See also the Roll of Honour database - Andrew Price gets a guernsey in that place, showing that he enlisted in Drummoyne, NSW He doesn't seem to be in the Commemorative Roll, nor the Red Cross missing list. It looks like you'd better concentrate on getting the National Archives to cough up his army papers. :-) Do a Google search on Lone Pine or 3rd Battalion, and you'll probably come up with a myriad of commemorative sites where Andrew may be mentioned. Good luck, Lenore Frost Essendon, Vic http://www.members.optushome.com.au/lenorefrost/ See details of my new book: "Essendon and the Boer War, with letters from the veldt, 1899-1902" http://www.members.optushome.com.au/lenorefrost/bookshop.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp

Today is the anniversary of the sinking of the Perth. Remembering with honour: Telegraphist Max Roberts PAV31 R.A.N.V.R. Killed in Action this day 1st March 1942. Aged 21. Son of Percival John and Ruby Millicent Roberts of Crystal Brook, South Australia. Lest We Forget. O sacred Spirit who didst brood Upon the chaos dark and rude Who bads't its angry tumult cease And gavest light and life and peace O hear us when we cry to thee For those in peril on the sea. B.and M.Walker, Adelaide.

>From : "Ted White" <[email protected]> To : [email protected] >Subject : Andrew PRICE died WW1 at Gallipoli Date : Wed, 26 Feb 2003 >23:09:23 -0500 >Hello All >I am new to the list and have just found a memorial card amongst the > >possessions of an aunt. It is for Andrew PRICE who died in the First > >World War. The Commonwealth War Graves Commission site states that he > >was 798 Corporal Andrew PRICE of the 3rd Battalion, Australian >Infantry, >AIF and that he died on 29 April 1915 (age 49) . He is >commemorated on the >Lone Pine Memorial in Turkey. > >I would appreciate any help in finding out more about this soldier who >may >well be related. Would you please suggest sources of information >for me to >use especially any on line. Thanking you, Best wishes, Ted White, Burlington, Ontario, Canada. <[email protected]> Hi Ted, We have very good online resources for the First AIF. National Archives of Australia website should have an entry for his Enlistment and Army records in their catalogue, but having had a look for him, for some reason it does not appear. I have had this experience myself, and contacted them about a missing record, quoting his serial number and other known details, and somehow they found and copied a record for me - but it still doesn't appear in the catalogue. I don't know why. I would suggest you contact them about Andrew Price. They charge around $A17 for a set of soldier's documents, and they are well worth the money. http://www.naa.gov.au/ The next site you should look at is the Australian War Memorial which has a number of databases to look at. http://www.awm.gov.au See the nominal roll for the date of enlistment, death, and unit, mainly as a confirmation. See also the Roll of Honour database - Andrew Price gets a guernsey in that place, showing that he enlisted in Drummoyne, NSW He doesn't seem to be in the Commemorative Roll, nor the Red Cross missing list. It looks like you'd better concentrate on getting the National Archives to cough up his army papers. :-) Do a Google search on Lone Pine or 3rd Battalion, and you'll probably come up with a myriad of commemorative sites where Andrew may be mentioned. Good luck, Lenore Frost Essendon, Vic http://www.members.optushome.com.au/lenorefrost/ See details of my new book: "Essendon and the Boer War, with letters from the veldt, 1899-1902" http://www.members.optushome.com.au/lenorefrost/bookshop.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp

Hello All, I am new to the list and have just found a memorial card amongst the possessions of an aunt. It is for Andrew PRICE who died in the First World War. The Commonwealth War Graves Commission site states that he was 798 Corporal Andrew PRICE of the 3rd Battalion, Australian Infantry, AIF and that he died on 29 April 1915 (age 49) . He is commemorated on the Lone Pine Memorial in Turkey. I would appreciate any help in finding out more about this soldier who may well be related. Would you please suggest sources of information for me to use especially any on line. Thanking you, Best wishes, Ted White, Burlington, Ontario, Canada. <[email protected]>

Thanks to all those who offered advice on the doctors and chaplains. I'll see how I go with the National Archives. Thanks again Chris

Sue Your great uncle sounds like a right character ! * It would not have been unusual for him to be rejected in 1915 but accepted later in the war. In 1914-15 they were looking for the "best specimens" and got less choosy later on as they became more desperate for recruits * The medical exam to be accepted was largely an external one looking at things like mobility, eyesight, chest expansion etc. If he had the ailments he was later diagnosed with he could pass the initial exam (one of my wife's ancestors did the same when they didn't pick up his arthritis first up) * Those with ailments that didn't prevent them from doing non-combat duties might be accepted - I had one distant relative accepted for clerical duties only because his eyesight was considered too poor * It was not uncommon to try and enlist several times. Sometimes wounded soldiers who had been returned home would re-enlist for non-combat roles. * The army organisation was not up to detailed checking for previous enlistments. Bear in mind they had to keep track of over 400,000 men over numerous war fronts overseas plus many at home with nothing more sophisticated than paper and typewriters. As far as I know, there was not a consolidated list of of the AIF prepared until after the war. Your great uncle's attestation paper for each enlistment contained a question about previous military experience. If he answered that truthfully he would have been picked up, but I assume that he did not. Essentially the army took the information on the attestation paper at face value, whgich is why so many people got away with putting incorrect information on them. Rgds Peter Gibson Queanbeyan NSW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Griffin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 11:56 AM Subject: WW 1 ENLISTMENTS > Hi > Could someone tell me if this is an unusual or commomplace: I have just received records from Archives for a great uncle, some of the pages are virtually unreadable but from the 84 pages it would appear the man firstly tried to enlist June 1915 and was deemed unfit because of bad teeth, in April 1916 he again tried to enlist, this time he was successful but it was noted he had Curvature of the Spine and was only fit for "home duties". Then in September 1916 he was discharged "medically unfit - 1. Suffered Epilepsy - 2. Chronic Alcoholism his Papers marked "Of Bad Character" . However, in February 1917 he again enlisted and was accepted at Ballarat - On 1/8/1917 he was discharged - "no longer required". Records show he again enlisted in Nowra - February 1918 this time for overseas duty, he embarked for Europe several months later where it would appear he spent a lot of the time in Hospitals or AWOL, also a lot of disciplinary charges for drunkenness. He returned to! > Aust., December 1919. All "enlistments" show same name, personal details etc., What I would like to know was it common place to reenlist several times over? Also would the Army have been aware of his past enlistments everytime he reenlisted? > > Thankyou > Suzanne > > ______________________________

My name is Jo Willesee and I am working on a documentary series for Film Australia called 'Colour of War - The Anzacs' and am hoping you may be able to help. To give you some background, the series uses colour film to relate the story of Australia and New Zealand at war from World War Two through to the end of Vietnam, and we're using the letters and diaries of the people who lived through these conflicts to tell our story. This is where you come in. We're on the lookout for first hand accounts (diaries, letters, school reports, essays) written at the time of Australia and NZ's involvement in WWII, the Occupation of Japan, Korean War, Malayan Emergency, Cold War and Vietnam, and we're hoping you might be able to point us in the direction of where we might find some. It's important to note it's not just the letters and diaries of people who served in these conflicts that we are interested in. We're hoping to find emotive first hand accounts of the everyday Aussies and Kiwis who lived through these events. Stories from the homefront are just as important as the ones from the battlefield. So ask your friends, parents, cousins and neighbours and find out if anyone has held onto their letters, diaries or school 'creative writing' books that we might be able to use in the series. I would love to hear about anything you find. If you have anything that might be of interest to the 'Colour of War' series please contact Jo Willesee on [email protected] that's [email protected] or leave a message on our toll free number 1800 88 33 20, and we will call you back. Thank you.

Ms Christine Dunstan Dear Christine, If you can find the names of the Chaplains and Doctors on the World War 1 Nominal Roll you will be able to get their files from National Archives. Best Regards Paul Kinney >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #48 >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:00:03 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> ><< message8.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp

Ms Sue Griffin Dear Sue, This is not normal. The gentleman concerned was obviously a very determined character. Full credit to him for beating the system. You must remember, snail mail was the only way the military used to move documents, such as personnel files, around. It is extremely possible that his service records from each of his enlistments had been filed and forgotten. Hence his ability to keep volunteering. Just summising from what you wrote, it would seem he volunteered when he was sober, as every good Australian did, but his bouts with the bottle defeated him, hence his discharges. Best Regards Paul Kinney >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #48 >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:00:03 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> ><< message8.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp

In the research I have done 5 enlistments for 1 person was the top but it is quite possible others enlisted more than 5 times. As the standards changed and the need for reinforcements grew many a "blind eye" was turned. See http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-recruits/enlistment_standards.htm for the different rules ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Griffin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: WW 1 ENLISTMENTS > Hi > Could someone tell me if this is an unusual or commomplace: I have just received records from Archives for a great uncle, some of the pages are virtually unreadable but from the 84 pages it would appear the man firstly tried to enlist June 1915 and was deemed unfit because of bad teeth, in April 1916 he again tried to enlist, this time he was successful but it was noted he had Curvature of the Spine and was only fit for "home duties". Then in September 1916 he was discharged "medically unfit - 1. Suffered Epilepsy - 2. Chronic Alcoholism his Papers marked "Of Bad Character" . However, in February 1917 he again enlisted and was accepted at Ballarat - On 1/8/1917 he was discharged - "no longer required". Records show he again enlisted in Nowra - February 1918 this time for overseas duty, he embarked for Europe several months later where it would appear he spent a lot of the time in Hospitals or AWOL, also a lot of disciplinary charges for drunkenness. He returned to! > Aust., December 1919. All "enlistments" show same name, personal details etc., What I would like to know was it common place to reenlist several times over? Also would the Army have been aware of his past enlistments everytime he reenlisted? > > Thankyou > Suzanne > > ______________________________

Sue Griffin wrote: >Hi > Could someone tell me if this is an unusual or commomplace: I >have just received records from Archives for a great uncle, some of >the pages are virtually unreadable but from the 84 pages it would >appear the man firstly tried to enlist June 1915 and was deemed >unfit because of bad teeth, in April 1916 he again tried to enlist, >this time he was successful but it was noted he had Curvature of the >Spine and was only fit for "home duties". Then in September 1916 >he was discharged "medically unfit - 1. Suffered Epilepsy - 2. >Chronic Alcoholism his Papers marked "Of Bad Character" . However, >in February 1917 he again enlisted and was accepted at Ballarat - >On 1/8/1917 he was discharged - "no longer required". Records show >he again enlisted in Nowra - February 1918 this time for overseas >duty, he embarked for Europe several months later where it would >appear he spent a lot of the time in Hospitals or AWOL, also a lot >of disciplinary charges for drunkenness. He returned to! > Aust., December 1919. All "enlistments" show same name, personal >details etc., What I would like to know was it common place to >reenlist several times over? Also would the Army have been aware of >his past enlistments everytime he reenlisted? > >Thankyou >Suzanne Wow, 84 pages is a very long file. While the overwhelming majority enlisted only once, there are many cases of people enlisting multiple times. His second attempt is typical of them: he had bad teeth, he got some dental work done. Others were invalided back to Australia and discharged and later re-enlisted when they got well. Fitness for duty was also affected by lowering of medical standards. Some people rejected early in the war (usually for height or teeth) were accepted later. There were no computers and no access to central records. If you went to another enlistment place they wouldn't have had access to earlier records although Records might have eventually caught up with you. Birth certificate and documentation were also frequently incomplete. This is why we hear so many stories of people changing their name or age. It is clear that his real problem was alcoholism. "No longer required" was an Army catch-all for anyone they wanted to get rid of. He should never have been shipped overseas. Doctors have problems with a volunteer system. Normally people came to them when they feel sick. Under a volunteer system, people try to cover up their illnesses. People slipped through the net, became a burden on the Army medical system, performed no useful service, and upon discharge could claim benefits on the grounds that their problems were related to their service. After all, some doctor had given them a clean bill of health when they enlisted! -- ---- First AIF Order of Battle: http://www.adfa.edu.au/~rmallett/

evan smith wrote: >I have a relative Claude Henry VAUTIN who was stationed at Bradfield >Park Sydney on discharge from the RAAF in 1943. His rank was >T/S/LDR. Does the T stand for 'Temporary'? the rest I assume is >squadron leader. >In WW1 he had flown with No.1 Squadron Australian Flying Corps in Palestine. Yes, temporary squadron leader. Temporary rank was rank granted while you were acting in a particular position. When you left the job, you dropped back to your permanent rank. However, in the wartime RAAF, all promotions were temporary. So some people remained "temporary" for very long periods of time. Substantive promotions were made after the war.

I am researching 97 WWI personnel remembered in a local avenue of honour. Several of them are chaplains and doctors. I'm wondering if somebody could tell me if they have service dossiers and are they available from the National Archives? Chris Dunstan