would any one know why people had to get permission to travel on trains in and around the war years, and where would this information be kept, how would one access it this is in the NSW area. Cathie

Recently I posted a message regarding finding information about Andrew Price who died at Gallipoli. I received a large number of very helpful messages and I have tried to thank all who wrote. If I missed thanking you please accept my appreciation anyway. I have found a little more about his beginnings in England and there is a family connection. Thanks again, Ted White

Chaplains hat badge WW2 Confirmation available at AWM Collections search Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Whitehand" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 1:36 PM Subject: More Badges, etc > Hello list ! > Thankyou very much for your replies to my Message relating to the > badges( Wives/Mothers of servicemen ) which have opened up some > additional lines of enquiry. > I also appreciate the direction to the page relating to Civilian > Badges .. Thanks Ted! > > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/civilian2.htm > > Another particular " Badge" which has not yet been properly Identified > Is What appears to be like a Bronze "Maltese Cross" beneath an "older > style" Crown A graphic of which can be found at.. > http://www.vicnet.net.au/~whitehaj/Badge01.jpg > > > I would be most interested in information about this Badge. > > > Regards > John > > -- > John Whitehand > Melbourne; AUSTRALIA > +61(0)3 93145307 > http://www.vicnet.net.au/~whitehaj/welcome.htm > > Ambition is ultimately destructive--There's only room for ONE "at the top." > Co-operation achieves... Competition destroys! >

Hello list ! Thankyou very much for your replies to my Message relating to the badges( Wives/Mothers of servicemen ) which have opened up some additional lines of enquiry. I also appreciate the direction to the page relating to Civilian Badges .. Thanks Ted! http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/civilian2.htm Another particular " Badge" which has not yet been properly Identified Is What appears to be like a Bronze "Maltese Cross" beneath an "older style" Crown A graphic of which can be found at.. http://www.vicnet.net.au/~whitehaj/Badge01.jpg I would be most interested in information about this Badge. Regards John -- John Whitehand Melbourne; AUSTRALIA +61(0)3 93145307 http://www.vicnet.net.au/~whitehaj/welcome.htm Ambition is ultimately destructive--There's only room for ONE "at the top." Co-operation achieves... Competition destroys!

The Female Relatives badge is discussed in full with photos on http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/civilian2.htm Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Whitehand" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 1:44 PM Subject: Australian Army- Badges; Patches/1nsignia etc WW II > I am currently helping an fellow researcher explore the significance of some memorabilia found in his fathers belongings. > His Father was a Chaplain( Christian) during WWII it would seem a number of Badges/patches have been found and apparently some of these would pertain to his own service. > Looking at descriptions of current badges/insignia it seems that many of these may have been altered after 1945. > Another area of interest relates to the Medallion issued the Wives/Mothers of servicemen. > 1. What was the origin of this Medallion? > 2. What is the significance of the Gold Star ? > 3. Was a similar award made after WW I > Trusting some listers may be able to clarify a few of these queries > > > regards > John > > -- > John Whitehand > Melbourne; AUSTRALIA > +61(0)3 93145307 > http://www.vicnet.net.au/~whitehaj/welcome.htm > > Ambition is ultimately destructive--There's only room for ONE "at the top." >

I am currently helping an fellow researcher explore the significance of some memorabilia found in his fathers belongings. His Father was a Chaplain( Christian) during WWII it would seem a number of Badges/patches have been found and apparently some of these would pertain to his own service. Looking at descriptions of current badges/insignia it seems that many of these may have been altered after 1945. Another area of interest relates to the Medallion issued the Wives/Mothers of servicemen. 1. What was the origin of this Medallion? 2. What is the significance of the Gold Star ? 3. Was a similar award made after WW I Trusting some listers may be able to clarify a few of these queries regards John -- John Whitehand Melbourne; AUSTRALIA +61(0)3 93145307 http://www.vicnet.net.au/~whitehaj/welcome.htm Ambition is ultimately destructive--There's only room for ONE "at the top."

Carmel Try Shaping history: a bibliography of Australian army unit histories: including army formations, establishments, associated organisations and a selection of campaign and area histories Syd Trigellis-Smith, Sergio Zampatti, Max Parsons. 208 p. ISBN: 0646291211, Hawthorn Vic, 1996. National Library Call numbers 016.3560994 T828 and RF 355.00994 T828 I queried 20 AUST PNR BN AIF. No wonder I did not recognise the unit. It started as the Victorian based 20th Light Horse Regiment at the start of the war. It converted to the 20th Motor Regiment and served with the 2nd and 3rd Armoured Divisions in Australia. In February 1994 it moved to Merauke in Dutch New Guinea where it acted as an infantry unit. It arrived just after the only skirmish activity between Japanese and Australian troops occurred in the area (but hundreds of miles inland from Merauke). Twelve months later in February 1945 it handed over control of Merauke to the Dutch and returned to Sydney. It was redesignated 20th Pioneer Battalion and converted to infantry and was training for further service when the war ended. Anthony Staunton

----- Original Message ----- From: "carmel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: ww2 > could someone explain the following to me please > 2 AUST LAB GP HQ 2 Aust Labour Gp HQ - controlled a number of Labour Companies doing work around wharves and similar places > 21 Australian Camp Hospital - as it says a hospital in an army camp > Leading Aircraftman -1 Aircraft Depot - self explanatory > 20 AUST PNR BN AIF - Sorry Anthony - this was the name given to 20 Motor Regt when it returned from Merauke in late 1944 and as it was getting ready to move to Madang when WW2 ended. > HMAS Lonsdale - I think a navy shore station in Victoria > 17 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS - A "Dads Army"battalion - could be in any state as they all had similar numbers > 2/3 Independent Company - a commando type army unit > 2 WA BATT - not sure > 16 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS - as above > 2/7 Australian General Hospital - a major army hospital > 2/4 FD REGT ART - 2/4th Field Regiment - one of the artillery regiments of 7 Division > 6 Field Ambulance - either a WW1 field ambulance unit or a similar militia one in WW2 > 9 Airfield Construction Squadron - an RAAF engineering unit > 1 ANTI AIRCRAFT REGIMENT - self explanatory > 21 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS PART TIME DUTY - as above but on part time duty > 4 ORD STORES - probably 2 Ordinance Stores Company > 2 Operational Training Unit - probably RAAF > 1 Stores Depot - ordanance stores depot - prob in NSW > 2 A/TKS REGT - 2 Anti Tank Regt - maybe 102 A/Tk Regt (militia) or 2/ 2 A/tk Regt (AIF) > ADV LHG - probably Advanced HQ Land Forces > thank you > carmel > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > Please support RootsWeb who make this list possible > http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html >

The Independent Rechabite Order (a Masonic type temperance organisation) organised itself in "tents" (their word for lodges). If you look up a Bible concordance you will find the Old Testament reference to the Rechabite tribe and their tent dwelling habits that gave rise to the form of the order. So the reference is to members of the local lodge turning out to the funeral of a deceased member. A Google search on "Rechabites" will provide further details on the order. Stuart Park PO Box 836 Kerikeri [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Val Harris [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, 11 March 2003 5:26 p.m. To: [email protected] Subject: Murray Valley Tent I.R.O I am writing to you from the City of Albury Library Service in the hope that you may be able to help. I have had a family history enquiry and part of it refers to the members of the "Murray Valley Tent I.R.O." forming a guard of honour at a funeral in 1911. All I have been able to find is that the Murray Valley IRO was founded in 1870. My enquiry is - what is an I.R.O.? Is it a volunteer military organisation? Imperial Rifle O?? ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== The Military Historical Society of Australia http://www.pcug.org.au/~astaunto/mhsa.htm

I am writing to you from the City of Albury Library Service in the hope that you may be able to help. I have had a family history enquiry and part of it refers to the members of the "Murray Valley Tent I.R.O." forming a guard of honour at a funeral in 1911. All I have been able to find is that the Murray Valley IRO was founded in 1870. My enquiry is - what is an I.R.O.? Is it a volunteer military organisation? Imperial Rifle O??

Goodwill from the "State of the Big Bird" (www.cassowaryconservation.asn.au) Hello Carmel, Some of the general info you seek may be accessed through your nearest library. Best is probably the 'Australian Centenary History of Defence Series. Consists of seven volumes but main ones for you would be I The Australian Army II The Royal Australian Air Force III The Royal Australian Navy. The latter will tell you that HMAS Lonsdale was an RAN shore depot establishment at Port Lonsdale, Victoria (1940-1992). The navy names its shore establishments in the same way that it names its ships. Using <google> on the internet will also give you plenty of informative sites using the above headings. Be aware that the AWM Nominal Roll WW II only gives you the person's posting and rank at the time that they were discharged. They could have been many places before that. May all this inspire a "ring o' bells" Dean Newman, North Queensland Australia "As time goes by" [email protected] "Knowledge can be communicated but not wisdom"

Can anyone tell me of a site about 16th Battalion 4th Brigade in WW1? Is there a site that will have a Nominal Roll with this unit? Thank you from Jenny in Townsville!

Carmel Some of these are: Leading Aircraftsman - 1 Aircraft depot: Leading Aircraftsman was a non-commissioned rank in the air force. 1st Aircraft Depot would have been the unit to which he was attached. 20 AUST PNR BN AIF - 20th Australian Pioneer Battalion AIF (Australian Imperial Force) - Pioneers were advance troops in the army. HMAS Lonsdale - presumably a ship in the navy. 16, 17 etc Battalion Volunteer Defence Corps - the Volunteer Defence Corps was Australia's "Home Guard" in WW2. Like all army units it was organised into battalions. May get round to checking some more for you later. The War Memorial Web Site also has some good material on ranks and units. Peter Gibson Queanbeyan NSW ----- Original Message ----- From: "carmel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 1:56 PM Subject: ww2 > could someone explain the following to me please > 2 AUST LAB GP HQ > 21 Australian Camp Hospital > Leading Aircraftman -1 Aircraft Depot > 20 AUST PNR BN AIF > HMAS Lonsdale > 17 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS > 2/3 Independent Company > 2 WA BATT > 16 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS > 2/7 Australian General Hospital > 2/4 FD REGT ART > 6 Field Ambulance > 9 Airfield Construction Squadron > 1 ANTI AIRCRAFT REGIMENT > 21 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS PART TIME DUTY > 4 ORD STORES > 2 Operational Training Unit > 1 Stores Depot > 2 A/TKS REGT > ADV LHG > thank you > carmel >

Carmel These are units of the Australian Defence Force. Some are WWI and some are WW2. Some are Army, some are Navy and some are Air Force. Could you confirm the designation 20 AUST PNR BN AIF. It is more likely to be 2 AUST PNR BN AIF. If you have more specific questions please ask. Anthony Staunton could someone explain the following to me please 2 AUST LAB GP HQ 21 Australian Camp Hospital Leading Aircraftman -1 Aircraft Depot 20 AUST PNR BN AIF HMAS Lonsdale 17 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS 2/3 Independent Company 2 WA BATT 16 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS 2/7 Australian General Hospital 2/4 FD REGT ART 6 Field Ambulance 9 Airfield Construction Squadron 1 ANTI AIRCRAFT REGIMENT 21 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS PART TIME DUTY 4 ORD STORES 2 Operational Training Unit 1 Stores Depot 2 A/TKS REGT ADV LHG thank you carmel ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Please support RootsWeb who make this list possible http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html

could someone explain the following to me please 2 AUST LAB GP HQ 21 Australian Camp Hospital Leading Aircraftman -1 Aircraft Depot 20 AUST PNR BN AIF HMAS Lonsdale 17 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS 2/3 Independent Company 2 WA BATT 16 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS 2/7 Australian General Hospital 2/4 FD REGT ART 6 Field Ambulance 9 Airfield Construction Squadron 1 ANTI AIRCRAFT REGIMENT 21 BATTALION VOLUNTEER DEFENCE CORPS PART TIME DUTY 4 ORD STORES 2 Operational Training Unit 1 Stores Depot 2 A/TKS REGT ADV LHG thank you carmel

Goodwill from the "State of the Big Bird" (www.cassowaryconservation.asn.au) Hello Ted and All, I agree with Peter Gibson's findings (6/3). I had a first cousin (maternal twice removed) who served with the Natal Mounted Rifles and he is not mentioned in the Australian records as it was a British or South African Unit. He is recorded as being a Plague Officer in India and in Transvaal. While in the Transvaal the Boer War broke out and he , Dr. Rupert Hornabrook, joined the Natal Mounted Rifles as a Medical Officer. Dr. Hornabrook was thought to be the first Australian to have seen action in the Boer War. He was wounded in the Boer attack on Ladysmith January 6, 1900 and was in Ladysmith throughout the Siege. Lieutenant Hornabrook was Mentioned in Despatches. He was the only Australian known to wear the clasps 'Elangslaagte' and 'Defence of Ladysmith' on his Q.S.A. Queen's Service Award. I shall also have to take a look at the <url> that Paul Kinney provided (6/3). May all this inspire a "ring o' bells" Dean Newman, North Queensland Australia "As time goes by" [email protected] "Knowledge can be communicated but not wisdom" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Val Harris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 5:17 PM Subject: Imperial Lighthorse > Asked on behalf of Peter Booth, who says, > > I have a copy of a letter from Kimberley, South Africa dated 30 th April 1900. It was sent by my great grandfather's brother William O'Connor. > > He talks of being in the Colonial Scouts from January to March 1900, before joining the Imperial Lighthorse in April. He says he is in the Imperial Lighthorse, Troop 1, C Squadron. > > During April, the unit has moved from Ladysmith and Colenso back to Durban, where they seem to have taken a ship to Cape Town and the had a 37 hour train trip up to Kimberley. They set out for the relief of Mafikeng the next day. > > I have been unable to find a William O'Connor on any Australian Boer War sites, and wonder if the Imperial Lighthorse was not classified as a British Regiment. > > Any help appreciated. > > Ted

Ted The Imperial Light Horse was a South African unit. Four members of the Imperial Light Horse were awarded the Victoria Cross during the 1899-1902 South African War Anthony -----Original Message----- From: Val Harris [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, 05 March 2003 6:18 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Imperial Lighthorse Asked on behalf of Peter Booth, who says, I have a copy of a letter from Kimberley, South Africa dated 30 th April 1900. It was sent by my great grandfather's brother William O'Connor. He talks of being in the Colonial Scouts from January to March 1900, before joining the Imperial Lighthorse in April. He says he is in the Imperial Lighthorse, Troop 1, C Squadron. During April, the unit has moved from Ladysmith and Colenso back to Durban, where they seem to have taken a ship to Cape Town and the had a 37 hour train trip up to Kimberley. They set out for the relief of Mafikeng the next day. I have been unable to find a William O'Connor on any Australian Boer War sites, and wonder if the Imperial Lighthorse was not classified as a British Regiment. Any help appreciated. Ted ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Please support RootsWeb who make this list possible http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html

Mr Ted Harris Dear Ted, The Imperial Light Horse was a South African unit. I could find no mention of a unit called the the'Colonial Scouts'. The 'Colonial Scouts' may have been a unit that was a training unit for new arrivals from the Colonies. The Imperial Light Horse is listed in the Boer War list of Colonial Contingents. http://www.bowlerhat.com.au/sawvl//saforce.html if you go the address provided you will find it. Regards Paul Kinney >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #57 >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:00:01 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp

Ted According to the information I can find, the Imperial Light Horse was a regiment raised in South Africa at the time of the Boer War. Thus it is not an Australian unit and this is why he is not listed on any of the Australian sites. Peter Gibson Queanbeyan NSW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Val Harris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: Imperial Lighthorse > Asked on behalf of Peter Booth, who says, > > I have a copy of a letter from Kimberley, South Africa dated 30 th April 1900. It was sent by my great grandfather's brother William O'Connor. > > He talks of being in the Colonial Scouts from January to March 1900, before joining the Imperial Lighthorse in April. He says he is in the Imperial Lighthorse, Troop 1, C Squadron. > > During April, the unit has moved from Ladysmith and Colenso back to Durban, where they seem to have taken a ship to Cape Town and the had a 37 hour train trip up to Kimberley. They set out for the relief of Mafikeng the next day. > > I have been unable to find a William O'Connor on any Australian Boer War sites, and wonder if the Imperial Lighthorse was not classified as a British Regiment. > > Any help appreciated. > > Ted >

Asked on behalf of Peter Booth, who says, I have a copy of a letter from Kimberley, South Africa dated 30 th April 1900. It was sent by my great grandfather's brother William O'Connor. He talks of being in the Colonial Scouts from January to March 1900, before joining the Imperial Lighthorse in April. He says he is in the Imperial Lighthorse, Troop 1, C Squadron. During April, the unit has moved from Ladysmith and Colenso back to Durban, where they seem to have taken a ship to Cape Town and the had a 37 hour train trip up to Kimberley. They set out for the relief of Mafikeng the next day. I have been unable to find a William O'Connor on any Australian Boer War sites, and wonder if the Imperial Lighthorse was not classified as a British Regiment. Any help appreciated. Ted