-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Y-IRL]a sad long reply to: Reasons for transportation? Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:45:12 +1100 From: Patricia Jungwirth <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Hi, this is an intuitive reply - from Australia - there were many reasons for transportation - couldn't get away with the death sentence? - some were actually for real criminal offences - others - maybe we wouldn't call them criminal these days?? did you know that it is an apparent fact that some of the sentencing magistrates in England - Ireland had property interests in Tasmania and maybe elsewhere?- and when a "suitable" criminal came before them - this suitable criminal - who had perhaps been charged with maybe a rather trivial offence - an offence all the same - but had shown a high level of skill in say farm management/harvesting etc. - would find himself transported to the colonies - where he would be promptly engaged as a convict labourer in the charge of a business associate of the magistrate that issued the transportation sentence... but I do carry on - there's more... practices that we may perhaps call these days unionism - were most likely quashed big-time way back when - it was not in the interests of govt.or landowners to have the labourers thinking that they could perhaps withhold their labour or leave a job - slavery as such was banned - but the economic hold of govt./landlords in many cases amounted to that of the slave-owners - and any folk that thought they would perhaps encourage other folk to leave the employ of a nasty or otherwise (remember that political objectives existed) so and so - were often treated like any other criminal - crimes roughly being threats to property - and the withholding of labour would certainly be a threat to property? anyhow - it saddens me much to note that for an increasing number of Australians - and I expect folk elsewhere - we are creeping back to those days - when threats, govt. policy and lack of opportunity are reducing folk to the near slave existance - sure the beatings, rapes, murders have declined - but have a look around - have things really changed - yes - we have modern communications, transport, education, and medicine - and most of us can now vote - so of-course we are superior or better off than the old folk of days gone - but as I eluded earlier - some of these marvels of technology actually improve the opportunities for our own advancement and enslavement simultaneously - imagine the tycoon that could at some time past - holidaying at his remote resort in say Galway - not a "worry in the world" - a day or two before any news could reach him - for it was certainly a male - nowadays his holiday has the benefit of the mobile phone - he is in constant contact with his office - and the office with him - sure he can keep an eye on things - but is it a holiday?? and what of the labourer that had to stop work when the sun-set - nowadays electricity enables him to have a second job - working all through the night - or atleast work extended overtime hours.. and computers allow office folk to do many more unpaid hours of overtime from their keyboard at home.. so this isn't the reply I should supply? and I don't know about Ribbonism - but what about the crime of Whiteboyism - men dressing up in sheets? klukluxklan style and terrorising farmers, labourers and others - or at least pasting notices to posts and walls - and what about the tragedy of all the incarcerated that never left alive the exquisitely named prison SPIKE ISLAND... there's misery then and now.. and that's just our sophisticated world ... good luck Robert p.s. I feel sure a google search will supply the URL of a very informative site that covers many of the union/political movements in the early days of Ireland - I can't seem to find the address at the moment - no wonder you may say - I'm blinded by the tears of rage and sorrow... or that big chip on my shoulder ... probably the big chip - it seems to me that we don't have to carry the old hatreds - forgive and be forgiven - but do not forget or be unaware that for some life was hell - and maybe transportation or immigration was a blessed relief.. Australian history is full of stories of Irish folk that were happy and flourished in Australia - away from the Irish sorrow - for some it may have been an escape from their own misery - for others - an escape from seeing the misery of others?? transportation or immigration - wasn't always bad news... goodnight. At 06:46 PM 5/03/02 -0000, you wrote: >Hi all, > I was just looking at the transportation archive, (link in the >Bookmarks) and the two Mcgrath's from tipperary on the list had the >reason given as: Attempting to compell to quit. So what does that >mean? Family legend has it that some of my GGrandmother McGraths >family was transported for anti british/landlord activities, and this >sounds like it would be that kind of offense, but then again maybe >not. > Also in the idle curiosity department, there is someone on the >transport list for Ribbonism. What the heck is that? Thanks all, Jim > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >[email protected] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi All and Patricia, I was vey interested to read Patricia reasons for tranpotartion and interested as to her source material for her 'apparent fact' as to property interests of the sentencing magistrates. I could not find any references to such in Professor Shaw's "Convicts and the Colonies. A study of Penal Transportation from Great Britain & Ireland to Australia & other parts of the British Empire' or in L.L.Robinson 'The Convicts Settlers of Australia. An Enquiry into the Orign and Character of the Convicts transported to New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land 1787 - 1852.' So this is a line of research I would like to follow up. Hope you can oblige Terry