Hi again Lisa, Is that Burwood NSW? I can't find an address for them. Ron Norton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Burton" <burtonlisa61@hotmail.com> To: <AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 11:58 AM Subject: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] "Undine" - Melbourne, Sydney 1855 > Jenny Paterson has written a very interesting and informative article re. > the "Undine" > (departed Hamburg, arriv. Melbourne and Sydney 1855) > > It appeared in the March 2007 issue of the journal of the Burwood and > District Family History Group - "Ances-tree" (vol. 20 no. 1) > > Rgs > Lisa > Gladstone, Q > > _________________________________________________________________ > Advertisement: It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_SEP07&_m=EXT > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.14/999 - Release Date: 10/09/2007 5:43 PM

Thank you Lisa. Hopefully, copies of the article will be still available. Ron Norton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Burton" <burtonlisa61@hotmail.com> To: <AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 11:58 AM Subject: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] "Undine" - Melbourne, Sydney 1855 > Jenny Paterson has written a very interesting and informative article re. > the "Undine" > (departed Hamburg, arriv. Melbourne and Sydney 1855) > > It appeared in the March 2007 issue of the journal of the Burwood and > District Family History Group - "Ances-tree" (vol. 20 no. 1) > > Rgs > Lisa > Gladstone, Q > > _________________________________________________________________ > Advertisement: It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_SEP07&_m=EXT > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.14/999 - Release Date: 10/09/2007 5:43 PM

Jenny Paterson has written a very interesting and informative article re. the “Undine” (departed Hamburg, arriv. Melbourne and Sydney 1855) It appeared in the March 2007 issue of the journal of the Burwood and District Family History Group – “Ances-tree” (vol. 20 no. 1) Rgs Lisa Gladstone, Q _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_SEP07&_m=EXT

Hi Lynne, Thank you so much for looking that up for me, sadly it is not my Felix Dolan, however do so much appreciate your effort on our family`s behalf. Can`t think of any thing else to do to find them; have searched now in every State without success. Perhaps the staff at Archives are correct and this information was lost in the floods. I also found on the same day at Library, that a Felix DOLAN received a Land Grant in 1863 somewhere in the Toowoomba district. This was handled by the Land Agent, Toowoomba. Do you know where more could be found about this? I am fairly sure that the family would be Assisted, and the staff indicated that they would not have had to live there or work the land, and could sell it at any time as there were no restrictions to retain it or improve it in any way. My G-Grandfather`s cousin, also named Peter DOLAN, arrive in 1865 - could he have applied for,and received, a land grant here prior to arrival? If the answer to that is no, then this Felix DOLAN must be the one I seek. Thanks so much, Lynne, for your help and interest. Warm regards, Dee. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynne Radford" <lynne_r@tpg.com.au> To: <aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com> Cc: <deebg@bigpond.net.au> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] Dolan's, for Dee > > Hi Dee, > Sorry to say, I now have copies of the books > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: > 269.13.12/997 - Release Date: 9/09/2007 10:17 AM > >

Looking for an image of the brigantine HARGRAVES, 196 tons, captain Albert de Phillipsthal. Where was she built? who owned her? I think its maiden voyage may have from Sydney to Auckland a 'baffling voyage' (NZ Southern Cross) taking seventeen days. The brig left Sydney 18th April 1853, arrived Auckland 5th May 1853. J. Woodhouse, agent. Thanks for any leads, Maureen in Sydney

Thank you Cheryl. That's the ship. It came on to Sydney after berthing in Melbourne. Best wishes. Ron Norton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cheryl Woodward" <cherwoodward@optusnet.com.au> To: <aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] RSVP - 150th anniv. Gottorp arrival this month.

Hi, The book only deals with German immigration to NSW but there is a ship that arrived Sydney 12 Feb 1855 called 'Undine'. It orginated from Hamburg. Had 104 unassited passengers. ARchives Ref AO 401. Cheers Cheryl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Norton" <ronn007@optusnet.com.au> To: <aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] RSVP - 150th anniv. Gottorp arrival this month. > Hi Cheryl, > Can you tell me if there is anything in this book about the ship 'Undine' > which arrived in Melbourne from Hamburg in 1855? > > Ron Norton > Canberra > ronn007@optusnet.com.au > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cheryl Woodward" <cherwoodward@optusnet.com.au> > To: <aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] RSVP - 150th anniv. Gottorp arrival this > month. > > >> Hi, >> >> Have you read the book Greetings from the land where milk and honey >> flows. >> The German Emigration to NSW 1838-1858. edited by Patricia Cloos & Jurgen >> Tampke. ISBN 0733408079. >> >> It mentions Kirchner in the book. Ihere are many ships of German >> Emmigrants >> mention in the book but unfortunately the only reference to the Gottorp >> is >> on page 20. >> >> Cheers >> Cheryl >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.10/995 - Release Date: >> 8/09/2007 >> 1:24 PM >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Dee, Sorry to say, I now have copies of the books ----- Original Message ----- > Hello Lynne, > > > On Monday I visited the new State Library in Brisbane and found the first > little glimmer of light ( more akin to a searchlight, actually!) in a book > entitled: > > 'Early Shipping Moreton Bay Jan 1860 to Dec 1863' Volume 2. > Surname; DOLAN > 44/45 173 the above are reference to the pages in that book, where name Dolan appears. Unfortunately, I do not think this is your family, p. 173, refers to a Michael Dolan, who arrived 30th May 1863 on the "Golden Dream" p. 44 is Capt. Dolan, of schooner "Pioneer", arrived from Newcastle, NSW, 21 Jul. 1861. P. 45, also re Capt. Dolan, owner, Master/Captain of the Pioneer, being driven ashore and eventually after several attempts to refloat her, was towed to Breadalbane, for repairs. So looks like back to the searching!!! for > My folks FELIX DOLAN, wife MARY , son HUGH 6 yrs, daughter ANNIE 4 yrs, > arrived from Fermanagh Ireland sometime between the dates of Jan 1861 and > June 1862. As the time-frame of their arrival is quite specific, (one > child > born and died Ireland Jan 1861 - next child born Brisbane July 1862) I am > sure that this entry is 'my' DOLAN. However there was nothing else, not a > date, ship name, or rest of the family mentioned. To say I was gobsmacked > is > an understatement! When I asked where I could fine the rest of the > information staff told me that I would have to visit State Archives and > ask > there. Am unable to visit for a couple of weeks due to circumstances, and > perhaps when I do I will come up with a blank again. > > Can you perhaps tell me what the numbers in the entry represent, if they > are > pertinent to another book or document? Possibly you know of this book > mentioned. Any help you can offer would be so very much appreciated, > Lynne, > my cousins have searched unsuccessfully for the name of the ship and > arrival > date for many years, and although I have searched for only 6 months I > share > their frustration. Kind regards, Lynne. Sydney, AUSTRALIA.

Hi Cheryl, Can you tell me if there is anything in this book about the ship 'Undine' which arrived in Melbourne from Hamburg in 1855? Ron Norton Canberra ronn007@optusnet.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cheryl Woodward" <cherwoodward@optusnet.com.au> To: <aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] RSVP - 150th anniv. Gottorp arrival this month. > Hi, > > Have you read the book Greetings from the land where milk and honey flows. > The German Emigration to NSW 1838-1858. edited by Patricia Cloos & Jurgen > Tampke. ISBN 0733408079. > > It mentions Kirchner in the book. Ihere are many ships of German > Emmigrants > mention in the book but unfortunately the only reference to the Gottorp is > on page 20. > > Cheers > Cheryl > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.10/995 - Release Date: 8/09/2007 > 1:24 PM > >

Hi, Have you read the book Greetings from the land where milk and honey flows. The German Emigration to NSW 1838-1858. edited by Patricia Cloos & Jurgen Tampke. ISBN 0733408079. It mentions Kirchner in the book. Ihere are many ships of German Emmigrants mention in the book but unfortunately the only reference to the Gottorp is on page 20. Cheers Cheryl

Hello, Many thanks for all this. I did have the diary already but particularly illuminating is the follow-up to the indication I had previously come across of somebody else looking, i.e. the: """ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara O'Neil" <bndoneil@cyber-net.com.au> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 12:41 AM Subject: Ship - GOTTORP/GOTTORF Anyone with information on a ship named GOTTORP (maybe that's incorrect & it may be GOTTORF?) or with information on the name KIRCHNER (from Kochendorf, Wurttemberg) please contact me direct at bndoneil@cyber-net.com.au Barbara in Australia """ Your URLs show what Barbara finally found and uploaded to the net. And in turn show exactly where Kochendorf is located. Her Herr Kirchner is from Kochendorf and my Steiner is from Steinberg. There are many Steinberg (Stone Mountain) names around, but one is in fact very close to Kochendorf and I am going to follow that up. So far, most of the FEW-traceable people who came on the Gottorp appear to have been from Wurttemberg part of Germany. It also seems a bit of a strange coincidence too how we can read the "Sydney agents were Kirchner and Co.", a Kirchner came on the voyage, and the immigration agent who is thought to have arranged it all was named Kirchner. And finally a ship named Kirchner came too to Sydney, not long after all this .. named after the immigration agent I rather suspect. I'll continue pondering and thanks for the help. Kind Regards, John Byrnes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ At 07:25 PM 9/9/07 +1000, you wrote: >Hi, Lynne, > >You are brilliant and know soooo much ! >Thank you for the information and please know that I think you are an >expert!! > >Shall be writing to the list soon. (Woe: I still need help/ advice.) > >Best wishes, > >Carolyn in Bathurst. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lynne Radford" <lynne_r@tpg.com.au> >To: <aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:50 PM >Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] RSVP - 150th anniv. Gottorp arrival this month. > > >> Hi John, >>>From State Records NSW >> 1857 Sep 15 GOTTORP SHIP Page 086 1841_1866 >> >> http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1857/09/031got.htm >> I think that the title has been transcribed incorrectly, if you look at >> the >> scan it has >> A List of the Crew and Passengers, arrived in the Ship Gottorp, of >> Oldenburgh, Burgfeldt Master, burthen 614 tons, from Port of Bremen, to >> Sydney, New South Wales, 17 September, 1857. >> >> At Pambula near Bega >> http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:1HiOTxW0nxwJ:thebegavalley.org.au/3595.h tml+SS+Gottorp,+1857&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=au >> Shipboard Diary of 'Gottorp' May12-Sept 20, 1857, on which Philip +John >> Behl >> sailed to Australia Mr Nagorcka Z5.19.03 Local >> >> http://www.kirchneryoungtreeoflife.bndon.com/ships.htm >> GOTTORP" >> 1857 - NSW Samuel Friedrich Christian Kirchner, first wife, child >> (born on voyage). >> >> http://www.kirchneryoungtreeoflife.bndon.com/kirchner/kirchner.htm >> >> >> GOTTORP .. 10 1857 Botany Bay ... ... >> JA9 >> a.. JA9: German Immigrant Ships Arriving in the Colony of NSW from Hamburg >> & >> Bremen 1856/57 & 1857/59 - GOTTORP Ex Bremen May 1857 >> a.. Journal Articles [JA] held by the Bundaberg LDS Family History Centre >> in >> Queensland: >> >> >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans/1999-02/0920083069 >>> "GOTTORP" >>> Departed from Bremen on 21st May 1857 and arrived at Sydney at Sydney on >>> 15th October 1857 with 259 immigrants. The Bremen agents were Bischoff >> and >>> Co. and the Sydney agents were Kirchner and Co. The only recording of >> the >>> passengers was done by the Port Jackson Harbour Master, and then by >> number >>> only - 203 male adults, 35 female adults, 12 boys and 7 girls. >> >> That is all I can find on her. >> Kind regards, >> Lynne. Sydney, AUSTRALIA. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John" <john.mail@ozemail.com.au> >> To: <AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 2:24 PM >> Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] RSVP - 150th anniv. Gottorp arrival this >> month. >> >> > > > > > > >-- >I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. >It has removed 253 spam emails to date. >Paying users do not have this message in their emails. >Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, Lynne, You are brilliant and know soooo much ! Thank you for the information and please know that I think you are an expert!! Shall be writing to the list soon. (Woe: I still need help/ advice.) Best wishes, Carolyn in Bathurst. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynne Radford" <lynne_r@tpg.com.au> To: <aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] RSVP - 150th anniv. Gottorp arrival this month. > Hi John, >>From State Records NSW > 1857 Sep 15 GOTTORP SHIP Page 086 1841_1866 > > http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1857/09/031got.htm > I think that the title has been transcribed incorrectly, if you look at > the > scan it has > A List of the Crew and Passengers, arrived in the Ship Gottorp, of > Oldenburgh, Burgfeldt Master, burthen 614 tons, from Port of Bremen, to > Sydney, New South Wales, 17 September, 1857. > > At Pambula near Bega > http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:1HiOTxW0nxwJ:thebegavalley.org.au/3595.html+SS+Gottorp,+1857&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=au > Shipboard Diary of 'Gottorp' May12-Sept 20, 1857, on which Philip +John > Behl > sailed to Australia Mr Nagorcka Z5.19.03 Local > > http://www.kirchneryoungtreeoflife.bndon.com/ships.htm > GOTTORP" > 1857 - NSW Samuel Friedrich Christian Kirchner, first wife, child > (born on voyage). > > http://www.kirchneryoungtreeoflife.bndon.com/kirchner/kirchner.htm > > > GOTTORP .. 10 1857 Botany Bay ... ... > JA9 > a.. JA9: German Immigrant Ships Arriving in the Colony of NSW from Hamburg > & > Bremen 1856/57 & 1857/59 - GOTTORP Ex Bremen May 1857 > a.. Journal Articles [JA] held by the Bundaberg LDS Family History Centre > in > Queensland: > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans/1999-02/0920083069 >> "GOTTORP" >> Departed from Bremen on 21st May 1857 and arrived at Sydney at Sydney on >> 15th October 1857 with 259 immigrants. The Bremen agents were Bischoff > and >> Co. and the Sydney agents were Kirchner and Co. The only recording of > the >> passengers was done by the Port Jackson Harbour Master, and then by > number >> only - 203 male adults, 35 female adults, 12 boys and 7 girls. > > That is all I can find on her. > Kind regards, > Lynne. Sydney, AUSTRALIA. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John" <john.mail@ozemail.com.au> > To: <AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] RSVP - 150th anniv. Gottorp arrival this > month. > > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 253 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Hi John, >From State Records NSW 1857 Sep 15 GOTTORP SHIP Page 086 1841_1866 http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1857/09/031got.htm I think that the title has been transcribed incorrectly, if you look at the scan it has A List of the Crew and Passengers, arrived in the Ship Gottorp, of Oldenburgh, Burgfeldt Master, burthen 614 tons, from Port of Bremen, to Sydney, New South Wales, 17 September, 1857. At Pambula near Bega http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:1HiOTxW0nxwJ:thebegavalley.org.au/3595.html+SS+Gottorp,+1857&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=au Shipboard Diary of 'Gottorp' May12-Sept 20, 1857, on which Philip +John Behl sailed to Australia Mr Nagorcka Z5.19.03 Local http://www.kirchneryoungtreeoflife.bndon.com/ships.htm GOTTORP" 1857 - NSW Samuel Friedrich Christian Kirchner, first wife, child (born on voyage). http://www.kirchneryoungtreeoflife.bndon.com/kirchner/kirchner.htm GOTTORP .. 10 1857 Botany Bay ... ... JA9 a.. JA9: German Immigrant Ships Arriving in the Colony of NSW from Hamburg & Bremen 1856/57 & 1857/59 - GOTTORP Ex Bremen May 1857 a.. Journal Articles [JA] held by the Bundaberg LDS Family History Centre in Queensland: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans/1999-02/0920083069 > "GOTTORP" > Departed from Bremen on 21st May 1857 and arrived at Sydney at Sydney on > 15th October 1857 with 259 immigrants. The Bremen agents were Bischoff and > Co. and the Sydney agents were Kirchner and Co. The only recording of the > passengers was done by the Port Jackson Harbour Master, and then by number > only - 203 male adults, 35 female adults, 12 boys and 7 girls. That is all I can find on her. Kind regards, Lynne. Sydney, AUSTRALIA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <john.mail@ozemail.com.au> To: <AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] RSVP - 150th anniv. Gottorp arrival this month. > > > To: AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS mailing list, AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS@rootsweb.com > > > > Dear All, > > > I am looking for information on a ship named Gottorp and those who > travelled on her to Australia in 1857. > >>From what little I already know, the Gottorp was one of the ships used to > transport German immigrants under a Bounty scheme first set up by Wilhelm > Kirchener in the late 1840s, originally to focus on supplying experienced > workers for early Australian vineyards. Many of them went initially to > the > Hunter Valley. At first the scheme sought to find and bring only married > immigrants. Later on however the requirements appear to have been > relaxed. > > The Kirchener scheme thrived at a time when German emigration in > population > percentage terms was at its peak in the early 1850s. > > At that time it was a very attractive prospect for Germans to emigrate to > English-speaking countries because these were experiencing an economic > boom > at the same time as Germany was suffering agricultural depression. > > In late 1857 the bubble burst on the boom of the early 1850s, beginning in > New York as a financial panic on over-extended debt, and very quickly > spreading to other countries. Following that German emigration rate > collapsed rapidly. The Gottorp voyage of 1857 was the fourth and last to > Australia under the scheme, and in 1858 the scheme itself was formally > wound up and terminated I think. > > In view of the fact that it is 150 years very soon since the arrival of > this particular Gottorp voyage I'd try to put up this webpage very soon. > And I'd like to find anyone else connected with or interested in the last > immigrants transport to Australia by the Gottorp. > > I have obtained a photocopy of a translation of a diary by a Gottorp 1857 > passenger, Herr Nagorcka. I do not as yet know which repository has the > original, in German, of this diary. > > Nagorcka decribes the men brought to Australia on the Gottorp in 1857 as > mostly "outcasts", and that they were "paid to leave the country and given > 40 Gulden to assist them on their way". He also remarked that most of > them > were "deported" from their country. He wrote: "three-quarters of the > passengers were deported of whom half were no good and didn't deserve good > treatment." > > So far I have found trace of only one other person ever searching for the > Gottorp on the internet, as follows: > > """"""""" > From: "Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List" <mscarlah@earthlink.net> > Subject: [B-W] Ship - GOTTORP/GOTTORF > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:04:06 -0800 > > B-W List subscribers: If you have any interest in responding to the > following forwarded message, please send it DIRECTLY to the author at > bndoneil@cyber-net.com.au . Please do NOT reply to the B-W List > or the List Co-Administrator. Thank you! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > FORWARD OF > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barbara O'Neil" <bndoneil@cyber-net.com.au> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 12:41 AM > Subject: Ship - GOTTORP/GOTTORF > > Anyone with information on a ship named GOTTORP (maybe that's incorrect & > it may be GOTTORF?) or with information on the name KIRCHNER (from > Kochendorf, Wurttemberg) please contact me direct at > bndoneil@cyber-net.com.au > > Barbara in Australia > > """"""""" > > I am descended, on my mother's paternal side from a German on that > clipper, > named Christian Steiner, who I think came from > Wurttemberg. > > The very few indictions found of where the Gottorp passengers came from > point to Wurttemberg. So if it was any government authority that paid the > men 40 Gulden (in addition to the free passage under the bounty scheme, > which money had to be later repaid from wages during the two years of > contracted work) then most likely it is the government of Wurttemberg that > is involved (or at least that is the sole clue so far). > > The diarist indicates that the Gottorp arrived on the 15th September and > was led into the harbour by a pilot boat sent out to escort it. > > The Shipping Master's Office register reads "GOTTORP - Brig of Sydney, > Moffat, Master,Burthen 198 tons, From the Port of Bremen to Sydney, New > South Wales, 17th September 1857". Thus if you didn't know otherwise you > might think this means the ship arrived on the 17th, but instead the 17th > date probably means when the record making was completed(?). > > What "Moffat, Master" means I don't know. I need a shipping expert's > advice to interpret records. > > Moffat was not the Captain's name. The captain's name in the Shipping > Master's Office record says "R. Borgfeldt". That well agrees with the > diary which says near its beginning "Captain Borgfeld should be a capable > man for the voyage". > > The diary describes the vessel as "a new three-mast sailing ship of the > clipper type, built for fast sailing" with the "name Gottorp, in golden > letters". > > The Kirchener scheme may well have had strong connections/arrangements > with > the Hamburg line, it seems. > > Some things suggesting that are that there was another German ship in > Sydney Harbour when the Gottorp arrived and that ship was noted as being > from Hamburg. Also when the diarist left the Gottorp he stayed the night > at the "Hotel Hamburg" in 19 Tink Street, Sydney. > > This is all I know. > > > Cheers, > > > > John Byrnes > > (Geologist) > > LachlanHunter Associates > P.O. Box 121, > BURWOOD, NSW 1805 > Australia

To: AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS mailing list, AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS@rootsweb.com Dear All, I am looking for information on a ship named Gottorp and those who travelled on her to Australia in 1857. >From what little I already know, the Gottorp was one of the ships used to transport German immigrants under a Bounty scheme first set up by Wilhelm Kirchener in the late 1840s, originally to focus on supplying experienced workers for early Australian vineyards. Many of them went initially to the Hunter Valley. At first the scheme sought to find and bring only married immigrants. Later on however the requirements appear to have been relaxed. The Kirchener scheme thrived at a time when German emigration in population percentage terms was at its peak in the early 1850s. At that time it was a very attractive prospect for Germans to emigrate to English-speaking countries because these were experiencing an economic boom at the same time as Germany was suffering agricultural depression. In late 1857 the bubble burst on the boom of the early 1850s, beginning in New York as a financial panic on over-extended debt, and very quickly spreading to other countries. Following that German emigration rate collapsed rapidly. The Gottorp voyage of 1857 was the fourth and last to Australia under the scheme, and in 1858 the scheme itself was formally wound up and terminated I think. In view of the fact that it is 150 years very soon since the arrival of this particular Gottorp voyage I'd try to put up this webpage very soon. And I'd like to find anyone else connected with or interested in the last immigrants transport to Australia by the Gottorp. I have obtained a photocopy of a translation of a diary by a Gottorp 1857 passenger, Herr Nagorcka. I do not as yet know which repository has the original, in German, of this diary. Nagorcka decribes the men brought to Australia on the Gottorp in 1857 as mostly "outcasts", and that they were "paid to leave the country and given 40 Gulden to assist them on their way". He also remarked that most of them were "deported" from their country. He wrote: "three-quarters of the passengers were deported of whom half were no good and didn't deserve good treatment." So far I have found trace of only one other person ever searching for the Gottorp on the internet, as follows: """"""""" From: "Baden-Wuerttemberg Mailing List" <mscarlah@earthlink.net> Subject: [B-W] Ship - GOTTORP/GOTTORF Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:04:06 -0800 B-W List subscribers: If you have any interest in responding to the following forwarded message, please send it DIRECTLY to the author at bndoneil@cyber-net.com.au . Please do NOT reply to the B-W List or the List Co-Administrator. Thank you! ----------------------------------------------------------- FORWARD OF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara O'Neil" <bndoneil@cyber-net.com.au> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 12:41 AM Subject: Ship - GOTTORP/GOTTORF Anyone with information on a ship named GOTTORP (maybe that's incorrect & it may be GOTTORF?) or with information on the name KIRCHNER (from Kochendorf, Wurttemberg) please contact me direct at bndoneil@cyber-net.com.au Barbara in Australia """"""""" I am descended, on my mother's paternal side from a German on that clipper, named Christian Steiner, who I think came from Wurttemberg. The very few indictions found of where the Gottorp passengers came from point to Wurttemberg. So if it was any government authority that paid the men 40 Gulden (in addition to the free passage under the bounty scheme, which money had to be later repaid from wages during the two years of contracted work) then most likely it is the government of Wurttemberg that is involved (or at least that is the sole clue so far). The diarist indicates that the Gottorp arrived on the 15th September and was led into the harbour by a pilot boat sent out to escort it. The Shipping Master's Office register reads "GOTTORP - Brig of Sydney, Moffat, Master,Burthen 198 tons, From the Port of Bremen to Sydney, New South Wales, 17th September 1857". Thus if you didn't know otherwise you might think this means the ship arrived on the 17th, but instead the 17th date probably means when the record making was completed(?). What "Moffat, Master" means I don't know. I need a shipping expert's advice to interpret records. Moffat was not the Captain's name. The captain's name in the Shipping Master's Office record says "R. Borgfeldt". That well agrees with the diary which says near its beginning "Captain Borgfeld should be a capable man for the voyage". The diary describes the vessel as "a new three-mast sailing ship of the clipper type, built for fast sailing" with the "name Gottorp, in golden letters". The Kirchener scheme may well have had strong connections/arrangements with the Hamburg line, it seems. Some things suggesting that are that there was another German ship in Sydney Harbour when the Gottorp arrived and that ship was noted as being from Hamburg. Also when the diarist left the Gottorp he stayed the night at the "Hotel Hamburg" in 19 Tink Street, Sydney. This is all I know. Cheers, John Byrnes (Geologist) LachlanHunter Associates P.O. Box 121, BURWOOD, NSW 1805 Australia

Thanks Lynne I have had a look for my COTTIS family but found nothing in the PROV reference. I have the passenger list for their departure from London on 23 February 1922 so I know they were on board. Perhaps they came as assisted immigrants.? I guess I will just have to wait. I was hoping that Australian records would be more informative than British ones. :-( Thank you kindly for the effort! Trevor On 05/09/07, Lynne Radford <lynne_r@tpg.com.au> wrote: > > Hi Trevor, > Victorian records has passengers lists for Benalla arriving April 1922 & > September 1922, Unassisted Immigration to Victoria. > > http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/default.htm > > Nothing as yet on National Archives for 1922 > http://www.naa.gov.au/ > > Kind regards, > Lynne. Sydney, AUSTRALIA. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Trevor" <tjwilliams@iinet.net.au> > To: <aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 5:55 PM > Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] Ship Benalla > > > > Lynne, (or anyone) > > > > Do you know if there are any Australian records for the SS Benalla which > > departed London 23rd February 1922? > > > > I have just discovered a family which probably belongs to me. > > > > Trevor > > Melbourne > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Trevor, Victorian records has passengers lists for Benalla arriving April 1922 & September 1922, Unassisted Immigration to Victoria. http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/default.htm Nothing as yet on National Archives for 1922 http://www.naa.gov.au/ Kind regards, Lynne. Sydney, AUSTRALIA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor" <tjwilliams@iinet.net.au> To: <aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] Ship Benalla > Lynne, (or anyone) > > Do you know if there are any Australian records for the SS Benalla which > departed London 23rd February 1922? > > I have just discovered a family which probably belongs to me. > > Trevor > Melbourne

Hi Meegan, Yes they are from Victorian Immigration site. http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/default.htm Kind regards, Lynne. Sydney, AUSTRALIA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris & Meegan Ferguson" <chrismeegan@bigpond.com> To: <AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:42 AM Subject: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] James Lever > Thanks Lynne - none of those siblings are a match with the siblings we > know > James's. Is this data from the Vic immigration? > Cheers > Meegan

Thanks Lynne - none of those siblings are a match with the siblings we know James's. Is this data from the Vic immigration? Cheers Meegan

Lynne, (or anyone) Do you know if there are any Australian records for the SS Benalla which departed London 23rd February 1922? I have just discovered a family which probably belongs to me. Trevor Melbourne Lynne Radford wrote: > Hi Marie, >>From same book Ships that Passed, By Scott Baty > BENALLA (sister ship to Beltana) > same details as sent for Beltana > except Launched 27 October 1912 > Completed; March 1913 > Inaugural Voyage. March 1913 (London/Sydney) > NAA http://www.naa.gov.au/ has passenger list > arrived > 19 April 1926 and 29 September 1926. > > I will scan photos of both ships and send to you direct. > > Kind regards, > Lynne. Sydney, AUSTRALIA. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marie Simpson" <mesdts@bigpond.net.au> > To: <aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:34 AM > Subject: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] Ship Benalla > > >> Hi List, >> Could I please ask for information on the ship Benalla that arrived into >> Sydney in 1926. >> Many thanks >> Marie >> >> ------------------------------- >

Hi Meegan, There is a James Lever with family arriving in 1866, he is 11yrs, so may be a too young from http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/default.htm LEVER ---- I MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 LEVER ---- MRS A MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 LEVER ALBION 18 MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 LEVER EDWIN A MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 LEVER EDWIN 19 MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 LEVER ERNEST 3 MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 LEVER FRANCIS 9 MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 LEVER FREDK 6 MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 LEVER ISABELLA 2 MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 LEVER JAMES 11 MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 LEVER JULIA 15 MAR 1866 QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA B 255 001 Lynne. Sydney, AUSTRALIA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris & Meegan Ferguson" <chrismeegan@bigpond.com> To: <AUS-IMMIGRATION-SHIPS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: [AUS-IMM-SHIPS] James LEVER to Australia - when/how? > Hi > Trying again to see if anyone can assist with finding when James came to > Australia. He was married in Australia in 1875 and born 1847 in the > Chester > area. Was a miner in Australia so possibly was in England > > Can't find him in any of the usual sources at all - guess he might just be > one of those who came with the bunch. There is a convict of the same name > but we are fairly sure that isn't him > > Any help greatly appreciated > Meegan > Darwin