Well Anita, I think that even after four to six generations my German, Welsh, Irish, English and Danish genes have still resulted in the thick Northern European blood that makes me HATE the very hot days.... Sorry I am no relation to Zippels or Gerlachs. From Jill in HOT Melbourne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Merchant" <a.merchant@bigpond.com> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans > Hi Albert and Jill > You should live up here in the Wimmera, it's even hotter for this ex Pom of > 32 years and still can't get used to it, and also a total fireban tomorrow, > lets hope for no fires please. > > Many of my partners family of German heritage came to this area (Horsham, > Stawell) from the Barossa valley in the 1870's plus. > There were Gerlach's and Zippels, any connection with anyone. > Best Wishes > Anita > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jill and Bill Cummins" <cummins@hotlinks.net.au> > To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans > > > > And today was even more beautiful...but tomorrow, well I hate hot days. > > JILL > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Albert Grulke" <grulke@bigpond.com.au> > > To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 2:58 PM > > Subject: RE: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans > > > > > >> Jill, > >> I saw that on the TV that yesterday was a beautiful sunny day in > >> Melbourne. > >> Well out here at Warburton it was so cold I had a sweater on almost the > >> whole day and it was very cloudy. Think it might have actually drizzled > >> rain > >> in the morning. > >> Albert Grulke in hot sunny Warburton > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Jill and Bill Cummins [mailto:cummins@hotlinks.net.au] > >> Sent: Monday, 17 January 2005 7:10 PM > >> To: AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans > >> > >> Albert, I defy your description of Melbourne today.... it was a > >> beautiful, > >> sunny pleasant day...so I don't know where you live but certainly not in > >> this part of Melbourne!!! > >> JILL > >> > > >> > > >> > Albert Grulke curious in cloudy miserable Melbourne in January. > >> > > >> > >> > >> ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > >> Remember, to unsubscribe, send an email to > >> aus-german-l-request@rootsweb.com > >> with unsubscribe in the subject line. > >> > >> ============================== > >> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > >> ancestors > >> at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > >> http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta > >> rgetid=5429 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > >> For your Aus-German resources go to > >> http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > >> > >> ============================== > >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > >> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > >> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >> > >> > > > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > > For your Aus-German resources go to > > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > > > ============================== > > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 14/01/2005 > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 14/01/2005 > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Hi Albert and Jill You should live up here in the Wimmera, it's even hotter for this ex Pom of 32 years and still can't get used to it, and also a total fireban tomorrow, lets hope for no fires please. Many of my partners family of German heritage came to this area (Horsham, Stawell) from the Barossa valley in the 1870's plus. There were Gerlach's and Zippels, any connection with anyone. Best Wishes Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jill and Bill Cummins" <cummins@hotlinks.net.au> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans > And today was even more beautiful...but tomorrow, well I hate hot days. > JILL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Albert Grulke" <grulke@bigpond.com.au> > To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 2:58 PM > Subject: RE: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans > > >> Jill, >> I saw that on the TV that yesterday was a beautiful sunny day in >> Melbourne. >> Well out here at Warburton it was so cold I had a sweater on almost the >> whole day and it was very cloudy. Think it might have actually drizzled >> rain >> in the morning. >> Albert Grulke in hot sunny Warburton >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jill and Bill Cummins [mailto:cummins@hotlinks.net.au] >> Sent: Monday, 17 January 2005 7:10 PM >> To: AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans >> >> Albert, I defy your description of Melbourne today.... it was a >> beautiful, >> sunny pleasant day...so I don't know where you live but certainly not in >> this part of Melbourne!!! >> JILL >> > >> > >> > Albert Grulke curious in cloudy miserable Melbourne in January. >> > >> >> >> ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== >> Remember, to unsubscribe, send an email to >> aus-german-l-request@rootsweb.com >> with unsubscribe in the subject line. >> >> ============================== >> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your >> ancestors >> at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: >> http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta >> rgetid=5429 >> >> >> >> >> ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== >> For your Aus-German resources go to >> http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm >> >> ============================== >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >> >> > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 14/01/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 14/01/2005

And today was even more beautiful...but tomorrow, well I hate hot days. JILL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Grulke" <grulke@bigpond.com.au> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: RE: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans > Jill, > I saw that on the TV that yesterday was a beautiful sunny day in Melbourne. > Well out here at Warburton it was so cold I had a sweater on almost the > whole day and it was very cloudy. Think it might have actually drizzled rain > in the morning. > Albert Grulke in hot sunny Warburton > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jill and Bill Cummins [mailto:cummins@hotlinks.net.au] > Sent: Monday, 17 January 2005 7:10 PM > To: AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans > > Albert, I defy your description of Melbourne today.... it was a beautiful, > sunny pleasant day...so I don't know where you live but certainly not in > this part of Melbourne!!! > JILL > > > > > > Albert Grulke curious in cloudy miserable Melbourne in January. > > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > Remember, to unsubscribe, send an email to aus-german-l-request@rootsweb.com > with unsubscribe in the subject line. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta > rgetid=5429 > > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Jill, I saw that on the TV that yesterday was a beautiful sunny day in Melbourne. Well out here at Warburton it was so cold I had a sweater on almost the whole day and it was very cloudy. Think it might have actually drizzled rain in the morning. Albert Grulke in hot sunny Warburton -----Original Message----- From: Jill and Bill Cummins [mailto:cummins@hotlinks.net.au] Sent: Monday, 17 January 2005 7:10 PM To: AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans Albert, I defy your description of Melbourne today.... it was a beautiful, sunny pleasant day...so I don't know where you live but certainly not in this part of Melbourne!!! JILL > > > Albert Grulke curious in cloudy miserable Melbourne in January. > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== Remember, to unsubscribe, send an email to aus-german-l-request@rootsweb.com with unsubscribe in the subject line. ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429

Hi Albert, Michelle I knew about the families around Warialda - my GGGrandparents were Dischers from there and there are still Dischers at Delungra. Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: <info@wickedwebs.com.au> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 10:41 PM Subject: [AUS-GERMAN] German Family's in NSW > Hi Albert and Joy > > There was also a large number of German Emigrants that settled in the > Inverell / Warialda area in mid 1800's. > > My gg grandparents, Caspar Limberg and Margaret Goldmann, both of Prussia > settled in this area. > > Margarets Goldmanns family arrived aboard the "Johann Caeser" in 1855 and > settled in Wellingrove. > > Caspar arrived via US and NZ aboard "Elizabeth" 1866. Caspar was one the > first selectors of land in the area and became naturalised in 1869 to > enable him to do this. > > > A few of the names that settled in the district are: > Limberg, Goldmann, Croft/Kraft, Wetzler, Weidemann, Stenz, Dreis, Korb, > Gentz, Guyer, Gobbert, Ehsman, Bower, Arentz, Asimus, Hoscher, Pohl, > Seitz, Schmidt, Gurg, Jurd, Wiekes, Koina. > > There are probably many more but these are what I can lay my hands on at > the moment. > > Thanks > Michele > Darwin NT > > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

Hi Albert & all list members I have been a member for sometime but this is my first posting. Albert, I have been following with interest the discussions on the German communities in Australia, particularly NSW. I would be interested in reading your story. There was certainly a reasonable German population around Glen Innes, Emmaville Wellingrove & Deepwater. My Dad told me that and his Grandparents were German. I am trying to find information on the arrival in the colony of Arthur KNAUF[F]. He and his brother George were naturalized in the 1870's. If anyone has come across the name I'd love to hear from them. Joy in hot, but lovely Wagga NSW. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Grulke" <grulke@bigpond.com.au> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:44 PM Subject: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans >I have completed a work in regard Germans to the Camden valley south-west >of > Sydney in the 19th century. I am happy to make my story available on the > list of privately if anybody is interested. > > I am now pursuing the Hunter valley region. I find here a rather large - > almost said 'massive' - list. It certainly would equal some of the German > settlements in Queensland and South Australia. > > What has got to me is why they lost their German traditions and language > so > quickly. It seems that within a generation there was no evidence of it > having ever been a German community. > > Was it due to the large Irish, Scottish and English influence? > > Was it because unlike Queensland they had no Lutheran Church? > > I find it amazing. I know that for my part at least the language fell by > the > wayside. My grandparents were first generation Australian and to my > knowledge they could not speak German. However we did retain some of the > other traditions such as in food. We certainly knew that our ancestors > came > from Germany and we were proud of that fact. > > So I ask, "Why did the Hunter Valley Germans just fade away so quickly?" > It > is not like as in the Camden where they were just a small pocket in the > tens. In the Hunter the German families were in the hundred and maybe > thousands. > > Anybody got a clue? > > Albert Grulke curious in cloudy miserable Melbourne in January. > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > Remember, to unsubscribe, send an email to > aus-german-l-request@rootsweb.com with unsubscribe in the subject line. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > >

Hi Albert and Joy There was also a large number of German Emigrants that settled in the Inverell / Warialda area in mid 1800's. My gg grandparents, Caspar Limberg and Margaret Goldmann, both of Prussia settled in this area. Margarets Goldmanns family arrived aboard the "Johann Caeser" in 1855 and settled in Wellingrove. Caspar arrived via US and NZ aboard "Elizabeth" 1866. Caspar was one the first selectors of land in the area and became naturalised in 1869 to enable him to do this. A few of the names that settled in the district are: Limberg, Goldmann, Croft/Kraft, Wetzler, Weidemann, Stenz, Dreis, Korb, Gentz, Guyer, Gobbert, Ehsman, Bower, Arentz, Asimus, Hoscher, Pohl, Seitz, Schmidt, Gurg, Jurd, Wiekes, Koina. There are probably many more but these are what I can lay my hands on at the moment. Thanks Michele Darwin NT

Hi, I am hoping for help with the above name.Other variations recorded on his childrens birth certificates include ; FREANDON/FRIONDON/FREANDON.He came into Moreton Bay about 1864/65.I have been unable to find the ship he arrived on.His death certificate states that he spent 3 years in QLD and 49 years in NSW, mainly at Vegetable Creek/Emmaville. Hoping for some help.Kerry Wall

Hi, Ainslee ! Paul Farrell reacted to the note I left on a web forum, and here is the email he communicated: => Please contact me at: => dpaul4199@hotmail.com => Great info in response to my original message. Just wanted to => correspond with you direct. => R/S => D. L Paul I hope that something will come out from you comparing notes on the Crossen/Oder Frankes. Best wishes Siegfried

Albert, I defy your description of Melbourne today.... it was a beautiful, sunny pleasant day...so I don't know where you live but certainly not in this part of Melbourne!!! JILL > > > Albert Grulke curious in cloudy miserable Melbourne in January. >

Albert I was following 2 sisters who came to Australia on the CITY OF POONAH. Interesting when I checked the passenger list they were all women. One of these ladies married a crew member and when I traced further a number of them were witnesses to each others wedding. There was some information I read some time age where young ladies were sent out to the colonies as servants to protect their morals. A lot of these girls were met at the docks & became prostitutes while others were wifes as you say. I believe I read this in one of the old news papers available on the web such as www.uk.olivesoftware.com/ This is an old address so I am not sure if still working. regards Derek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Grulke" <grulke@bigpond.com.au> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 2:26 PM Subject: mail order brides > Somewhere I read that there were a number of Irish and maybe English women > brought out to New South Wales in the 1830-60 eras for the sole purpose of > becoming wives of settlers already here. As I recall the article there was a > surplus of males and the administration wanted to balance the population > with females able to contribute children to the colony. > > I cannot find this article now and am wondering if I am having an illusion. > > I do know of one story where a ship of German migrants arrived in Brisbane > and the male bachelors in the colony were waiting at the wharf. The single > girls were segregated and the men were enticed to make arrangements with > their fathers for marriage. In the case I know about the couple were married > the next day. They had a long marriage but wonder way it love or need that > kept them going. > > Any ideas > > Albert Grulke > > ______________________________

Hi Albert I am very interested in the Germans in Camden as that was where my family lived (I still live here actually hahahahaha) Cheers Karen -----Original Message----- From: Albert Grulke [mailto:grulke@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Monday, 17 January 2005 3:45 PM To: AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-GERMAN] Hunter valley Germans I have completed a work in regard Germans to the Camden valley south-west of Sydney in the 19th century. I am happy to make my story available on the list of privately if anybody is interested. I am now pursuing the Hunter valley region. I find here a rather large - almost said 'massive' - list. It certainly would equal some of the German settlements in Queensland and South Australia. What has got to me is why they lost their German traditions and language so quickly. It seems that within a generation there was no evidence of it having ever been a German community. Was it due to the large Irish, Scottish and English influence? Was it because unlike Queensland they had no Lutheran Church? I find it amazing. I know that for my part at least the language fell by the wayside. My grandparents were first generation Australian and to my knowledge they could not speak German. However we did retain some of the other traditions such as in food. We certainly knew that our ancestors came from Germany and we were proud of that fact. So I ask, "Why did the Hunter Valley Germans just fade away so quickly?" It is not like as in the Camden where they were just a small pocket in the tens. In the Hunter the German families were in the hundred and maybe thousands. Anybody got a clue? Albert Grulke curious in cloudy miserable Melbourne in January. ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== Remember, to unsubscribe, send an email to aus-german-l-request@rootsweb.com with unsubscribe in the subject line. ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429

Albert and Sharon These two website's may make interesting reading even if they're not connected to your family history. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/2840/female_factory.html http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/confem.html I believe that Hyde Park Barracks at first was built by convicts prisoners to house them. It later housed single women. It also becoming what could be called Australia's first aged care home for women (nursing home). You should be able to find some information on Hyde Park Barracks online. Beryl

I have completed a work in regard Germans to the Camden valley south-west of Sydney in the 19th century. I am happy to make my story available on the list of privately if anybody is interested. I am now pursuing the Hunter valley region. I find here a rather large - almost said 'massive' - list. It certainly would equal some of the German settlements in Queensland and South Australia. What has got to me is why they lost their German traditions and language so quickly. It seems that within a generation there was no evidence of it having ever been a German community. Was it due to the large Irish, Scottish and English influence? Was it because unlike Queensland they had no Lutheran Church? I find it amazing. I know that for my part at least the language fell by the wayside. My grandparents were first generation Australian and to my knowledge they could not speak German. However we did retain some of the other traditions such as in food. We certainly knew that our ancestors came from Germany and we were proud of that fact. So I ask, "Why did the Hunter Valley Germans just fade away so quickly?" It is not like as in the Camden where they were just a small pocket in the tens. In the Hunter the German families were in the hundred and maybe thousands. Anybody got a clue? Albert Grulke curious in cloudy miserable Melbourne in January.

Hi everyone, I have not posted to this list for quite awhile, but have been reading everyones messages hoping to find a Relation or two, not yet, but have found some interesting information. I again post my family for anyone out there that may match, or can give me some help with where to look for shipping list that may help. My family were living around the Petersham/ Leichhhardt area of Sydney. my grandmother Rosaline Sarah Stevenson birth cert states her parents were married 11 Oct 1888 Sydney and her mothers name as Elizabeth Magdalen Henkel, father Thomas James Stevenson. I found the marriage cert for Lizzie Henkley marring Thomas James Stevenson 14/8/88, & her birth place as Petersham Syd. She was 25 when married. Parents as John Henkley - Cooper & Magdalene Smyth. Which would put Lizzie's birth around 1863. I then found a birth cert for unnamed female born 20/4/1864 at Balmain, father Johen Henkel, Cooper by trade, aged 40. Mother Magdalena Reuten aged 23. Both were born in Germany, married in Sydney 1863. Found a Marriage cert for 13/7/1863 for John Henkel aged 39, born Hesse - Darmstadt, his father Jacob Henkel - a soldier, Mother Elizabeth Tritach. Bride: Magdalena Reuter aged 23, born Baden -Germany. Her father Heinrich Reuter - a stone mason. Her mother Magdalena Zimmerman. John & Magdalena were married by John Dunmore Lang, & I think they may have come to Australia without ther parents. I have a copy of Naturalisation papers for a Johann Otto Henkell from Hesse - Cassels dated 1853. It has Johann as Twenty five at the time & had occupation as a Mariner. He had been living on Kangaroo Island for 6yrs. I don't think this is my John Henkel as this one would have been born around 1828, & all the other certificates I have point to my John Henkel being born around 1824. I have a death cert for John Henkeul aged 51. Trade was a gardener & cooper. Had date of death as 19/8/1871, but spouse as Madeline Reuter. This one is another 4yrs out, as it would have made his birth around 1820. That is as far as I have been able to go. If anyone can give me some pointers to kick start my research, i would be grateful. Loved the WEB link Julie put on. Thanks. Karen Sunny HOT Qld.

Albert, Spurred by your question I have just spent an hour searching the internet for information because I have had similar questions. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything interesting (unless you are in the market for a Russian bride). One of my ancestors, an orphan Irish servant girl, arrived here in 1854 and was married 3 weeks later to a German widower with 3 kids 40something years her senior. I have wondered if she was a mail order bride since it seemed to be stretching it that she arrived in Sydney, met and married someone in Picton in such a short time. I would appreciate it if you would let us know if you find anything interesting. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: Albert Grulke [mailto:grulke@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 8:26 PM To: AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-GERMAN] mail order brides Somewhere I read that there were a number of Irish and maybe English women brought out to New South Wales in the 1830-60 eras for the sole purpose of becoming wives of settlers already here. As I recall the article there was a surplus of males and the administration wanted to balance the population with females able to contribute children to the colony. I cannot find this article now and am wondering if I am having an illusion. I do know of one story where a ship of German migrants arrived in Brisbane and the male bachelors in the colony were waiting at the wharf. The single girls were segregated and the men were enticed to make arrangements with their fathers for marriage. In the case I know about the couple were married the next day. They had a long marriage but wonder way it love or need that kept them going. Any ideas Albert Grulke ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== Remember, to unsubscribe, send an email to aus-german-l-request@rootsweb.com with unsubscribe in the subject line. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Somewhere I read that there were a number of Irish and maybe English women brought out to New South Wales in the 1830-60 eras for the sole purpose of becoming wives of settlers already here. As I recall the article there was a surplus of males and the administration wanted to balance the population with females able to contribute children to the colony. I cannot find this article now and am wondering if I am having an illusion. I do know of one story where a ship of German migrants arrived in Brisbane and the male bachelors in the colony were waiting at the wharf. The single girls were segregated and the men were enticed to make arrangements with their fathers for marriage. In the case I know about the couple were married the next day. They had a long marriage but wonder way it love or need that kept them going. Any ideas Albert Grulke

Can anybody tell me the meaning of Weinbauer? I think it might be a German word for winemaker. Thanks Albert Grulke

Hello Albert and other listers I am new to this list and am excited to be here considering my German Ancestry here in Australia. I thought I would reply to Albert's query re winegrowers from Germany. Plus list my family surname interests. First of all: Here is an interesting website about German migration to Australia and it is set out in chronological order. http://www.teachers.ash.org.au/dnutting/germanaustralia/e/chron/chron1.htm Below is the article regarding the 6 winegrowers mentioned on the above site: Six winegrowers with their families, altogether 12 adults and 17 children, arrived in Sydney on the Kinnear on 22nd April. The British Government set strict conditions under which they would accept immigrant workers into the Australian colonies from countries other than Britain. Immigrants from continental Europe with winegrowing skills were eligible because there was no wine industry in Britain. Many colonial landowners in NSW were trying with varying success to establish vineyards. This first group of six winegrowers were recruited in the Rheingau region in Hessen by Major Edward Macarthur for his brother William's property at Camden, 60 km south-west of Sydney. Three of the six (Caspar Flick, Georg Gerhard and Johann Wenz) were from Hattenheim, while the other three were from villages near Hattenheim: Johann Justus and Johann Stein from Erbach, and Friedrich Seckold from Mittelheim. While waiting in London for their departure on the Kinnear, they became worried about what they had let themselves in for, but a letter to them from the Austrian botanist and diplomat Karl von Hügel gave them the confidence to continue. Later many more German winegrowers were brought to NSW and Victoria. My GGG Grandad Johann Justus was one of these first 6 winegrowers to come to Australia to work at Camden Park. I have been in touch with descendants of Casper Flick and Johann Stein. I was under the impression that these 6 were the first Germans brought out especially to grow grapes etc however I could be wrong. Also the book "Greetings from the Land Of Milk and Honey" is a very interesting read. It contains a letter from a cousin or nephew (bit of confusion re that) of my GGG Grandad called Johannes Justus who come out in 1849 on the ship Beulah. Johann met Johannes at the ship and they both worked at Wivenhoe owned by Sir Charles Cowper as Johann's contract with William Macarthur at Camden Park had finished. I have had contact with "The Friends of Wivenhoe" who are making a register of those who lived at Wivenhoe which may be of interest to some of you other listers too. My German surname interests here in Australia are: Johann Justus and his wife Appollonia nee Petri. arrived Aussieland 1838 on ship Kinnear. Their daughter Agnes married Franz Melchoir Muller who arrived with his parents (Franz) Anton Muller and (Maria) Juliana nee Schwaiger and siblings in 1852 on the ship Peru. I have a lot of info about the Muller line and have found some descendants of Agnes and Franz still living here in Aus. I do not know what actually brought this Muller family out from Germany. Agnes nee Justus had siblings John, Hanna Maria, & Philipp however I know limited about them and their descendants only what I have obtained from NSW BDM online. These families especially the Muller side is featured in a book written by a distant cousin of mine in New Zealand who unfortunately passed away in August 2004. The book is called "Tracing Family History Overseas from New Zealand" by Anne Bromell. Maybe someone out there is tracing the same families if so I'd love to hear from you. In the meantime I hope the other info was of some help to someone. Have a terrific day Julie from QLD

Thanks Eric, I will try & follow up on this . The lady I'm looking for is big problem in that I can't find her, so here's hoping John from West Aus ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric & Rosemary Kopittke To: AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com Cc: John Warnock Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-GERMAN] Re: Fw: Family History research Hello John, We have extracted departures from Hamburg 1850 - 1873 and 1877 & 1878. Since Schoenberg could also be written Schönberg, I looked for SCHOENBERG and SCHÖNBERG. I could not find a Johanna, but found a Marie SCHONBERG aboard the "Palmerston" to New Zealand in 1872. She was recorded as being from Tucheln in Brandenburg, and was 19 years old. It is possible that her name really was SCHÖNBERG and written poorly and/or read wrongly - at times the writing on some of the lists was very poor indeed. Interestingly she appears to have been travelling in a group of 4:- 189 SCHONBERG Marie Tucheln Brandenbg Frau 19 f 190 SCHONBERG Johann Ludw Tucheln Brandenbg Schäfer 66 m 191 JAHN August Tucheln Brandenbg Schäfer 55 m 192 JAHN Auguste Tucheln Brandenbg Frau 48 f We guessed that "Tucheln" might have been a wrong spelling of Tuchen. All the best for your searches! Eric from Brisbane