Just in response to Albert's research - Can people recommend good titles regarding German migration to Queensland? Also can anyone confirm (or refute!) the information I read somewhere that the Queensland Government (out of desperation for farm workers) was the only state government to actively recruit, and pay passage for, non-English-speakers in the 19th Century (or before Federation)? This discussion of Germans being recruited for the Hunter would appear to contradict this... Many thanks, Courtney Pedersen On 16/11/04 8:41 AM, "Albert Grulke" <grulke@bigpond.com.au> wrote: > In my study of the Germanic migration to Australia in the 19th century I > have come to a few conclusions. > > There can be no disputing that the major migration was to Queensland. It > happened over a longer period than did the migration to South Australia and > they settled in a much larger area of the sate. There were also many more > than to South Australia. > > > Albert Grulke > > >

Help needed Please. I am attempting to trace a Frederick Janzen who married Ann Owen on 28 August 1856 at St. Phillips Church Sydney. A son was born to Frederick and Ann in 1960 with Frederick's nationality being stated as German. At the time of the marriage Frederick was 25 years of age suggesting he was born around 1831 and had been in Australia about 5 years at time of marriage making the arrival around 1850/51. I have been unable to locate an arrival of Frederick into Australia as an assisted immigrant or his death. Interestingly his marriage certificate has the name "Johnsen" or "Johnson" ruled through and Janzen inserted above - possibly a recording error at time of documentation by church minister or in the transcription to BDM records at a later date. His conjugal status was Bachelor with occupation a Chandler having resided in Sydney for past five years. His parents names are not recorded but his father's occupation is stated as a farmer. Ann and her son relocated to Dubbo between 1860/63 but there is a good chance that Frederick did not accompany her as she took up a liaison with a John Vacchini. My two main concerns are: 1. When and how did Frederick Janzen get into Australia 2. After the arrival of his son he just seemed to dematerialise with no death being recorded in Australia under Frederick Janzen. Ann had a handful of children to John but never married him assuming that she was still married to Frederick. I need to refocus the direction of research to try and resolve these two concerns. Any advice would be appreciated. Bob Starling

Hi My German family the WEDESWEILER'S arrived in 1855, they were vinedressers/vigneron's. They lived in the Camden and Mulgoa Forest area. Then later at Werombi and Silverdale. I have been unable to find out who they worked for on arrival and who brought them over as assisted immigrants. I have been told that they were cousins to the BRUCKHAUSER'S (although I haven't been able to confirm this). The BRUCKHAUSER'S lived and had a vineyard in Elderslie (near Camden). Could someone tell me where I should look for information on who brought them out here? Thanks Karen

Germantown is from Macarthurs again, they employed a german who arrived in 1825 as a shepherd on the Macarthur owned Autralian Agricultural Company (AA Company). He started a grog shop which was known as 'the Germans' and when the town grew arround the grog shop it became Germantown. I have also found references to german free settlers arriving after they served in the British armed forces (just post the napoleonic wars), and others who left Germany went to England and where convicted of crime and sent to Australia (there was a tradition of German bands what we would term 'busking' on the streets of London). Regards Gillian Albert Grulke wrote: >In my study of the Germanic migration to Australia in the 19th century I >have come to a few conclusions. > >There can be no disputing that the major migration was to Queensland. It >happened over a longer period than did the migration to South Australia and >they settled in a much larger area of the sate. There were also many more >than to South Australia. > >I have a strong suspicion that the next largest was to New South Wales. >Unfortunately the Germanic migration to this state seems to have been >spasmodic and more sparsely spread out. > >I am trying to pin some of these settlements down to find out where the >migrants came from and about when they came. > >Let me list what I am sure of: > >In 1810 the New South Wales administration using German State money built >the German Lutheran Church in Goulburn Street Sydney as a place for Germans >Lutherans to worship. That church is still in use. My logic tells me that if >the administration built with convict labour a church for German Lutherans >there must have been a reasonable number of Germans in Sydney town in 1810. >Where did they come from? What did they do for a living? Where did they >live? > >In 1817 the settlers of the Hunter Valley using government agents enticed a >number of German families to leave the Rhineland to come to the Hunter >Valley to work in the emerging wine industry. These were vine dressers, wine >makers and vignerons. They bought with them some merchants and some >shepherds. Some of these people seem to have gone as far south as the Camden >Valley but more on that in a minute. This puts the Hunter Valley as the >first wine growing district in Australia and makes Hunter Valley wines older >than any other Australian wines. > >Now I know that there was a reasonable large Germanic settlement around >Holbrook in the south of the state. The town of Holbrook was called >Germantown by the authorities until 1917. The authorities surely would not >call a place Germantown unless there were a reasonable number of Germans >living there or would it. These Germans seemed to have disembarked in Sydney >and travelled south. I find little or no connection between them and the >Victorian migrants. They also seem to have had no association with the >second generation Lutheran Germans who travelled from South Australia and >settled around Walla Walla. > >I have it on record that there was a large German settlement along the >Clarence River centring on Grafton. I remember that there are a couple of >small districts, maybe townships along the Princes Highway and south of >Grafton with German names. I wonder why. > >There seems to have been a large migration into Armidale and the New England >districts. I recall that when I first became interested in the German >settlements in Australia around the 1960s I was told about a German >settlement at or near Deepwater which is between Armidale and Glenn Innes. > >I have strong reason to believe that a number of German migrants settled in >the Narrabri district. > >In about 1870 a Lutheran pastor had eleven congregations of Lutherans >between Grafton and Narrabri. > >Campbelltown and Picton interest me. There seems to have been a migrating >population of Germans in this area. I can't seem to pin anything down to >satisfy me that there was as settlement here but there are many names that >keep presenting themselves from this area. > >The area around Nowra is suspicious. Again I can't pin anything down but >often read things that leave me to wonder. > >Albury is the confusing one. It seems that Albury became a Mecca taking >German residents from Victoria, Walla Walla and Holbrook. > >I find this interesting that there seems to have been such a large scattered >migration into New South Wales yet we know so little about it. I would >appreciate any information that listers can give me to help fill in the >blanks. > >Thanks in anticipation > >Albert Grulke > > > > > >==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== >For your Aus-German resources go to >http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > >============================== >Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple ports >ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to view. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx > > > > >

Hi, As part of the research into the assisted immigrants into NSW who came in between 1849 and 1855 a study should be made of the people who employed the immigrants when they arrived. For example one of the reasons that there was a population of German immigrants in the Nowra area (south coast of NSW for those who don't know) was that Alexander Berry, who owned land in that area, employed 22 immigrants in total. This doesn't sound many but the largest number employed where John and William Macarthur who employed 34. Many of the employers where from Moreton Bay, the Hunter, the Sydney area, the south coast, northern rivers and New England. Once there was a population of German speakers then others would follow. I have not found any reason why Germantown NSW (now Holsworthy) came into existance. Numbers arriving; 1849-50 384 immigrants (121 families) mostly to Sydney area and the Hunter, 1852-53 757 immigrants (244 families) some went to Moreton Bay 1854-56 1496 immigrants (380 families) Given the German family size there must be a lot of people in NSW who have German blood from this immigration period. Regards, Gillian Albert Grulke wrote: >In my study of the Germanic migration to Australia in the 19th century I >have come to a few conclusions. > >There can be no disputing that the major migration was to Queensland. It >happened over a longer period than did the migration to South Australia and >they settled in a much larger area of the sate. There were also many more >than to South Australia. > >I have a strong suspicion that the next largest was to New South Wales. >Unfortunately the Germanic migration to this state seems to have been >spasmodic and more sparsely spread out. > >I am trying to pin some of these settlements down to find out where the >migrants came from and about when they came. > >Let me list what I am sure of: > >In 1810 the New South Wales administration using German State money built >the German Lutheran Church in Goulburn Street Sydney as a place for Germans >Lutherans to worship. That church is still in use. My logic tells me that if >the administration built with convict labour a church for German Lutherans >there must have been a reasonable number of Germans in Sydney town in 1810. >Where did they come from? What did they do for a living? Where did they >live? > >In 1817 the settlers of the Hunter Valley using government agents enticed a >number of German families to leave the Rhineland to come to the Hunter >Valley to work in the emerging wine industry. These were vine dressers, wine >makers and vignerons. They bought with them some merchants and some >shepherds. Some of these people seem to have gone as far south as the Camden >Valley but more on that in a minute. This puts the Hunter Valley as the >first wine growing district in Australia and makes Hunter Valley wines older >than any other Australian wines. > >Now I know that there was a reasonable large Germanic settlement around >Holbrook in the south of the state. The town of Holbrook was called >Germantown by the authorities until 1917. The authorities surely would not >call a place Germantown unless there were a reasonable number of Germans >living there or would it. These Germans seemed to have disembarked in Sydney >and travelled south. I find little or no connection between them and the >Victorian migrants. They also seem to have had no association with the >second generation Lutheran Germans who travelled from South Australia and >settled around Walla Walla. > >I have it on record that there was a large German settlement along the >Clarence River centring on Grafton. I remember that there are a couple of >small districts, maybe townships along the Princes Highway and south of >Grafton with German names. I wonder why. > >There seems to have been a large migration into Armidale and the New England >districts. I recall that when I first became interested in the German >settlements in Australia around the 1960s I was told about a German >settlement at or near Deepwater which is between Armidale and Glenn Innes. > >I have strong reason to believe that a number of German migrants settled in >the Narrabri district. > >In about 1870 a Lutheran pastor had eleven congregations of Lutherans >between Grafton and Narrabri. > >Campbelltown and Picton interest me. There seems to have been a migrating >population of Germans in this area. I can't seem to pin anything down to >satisfy me that there was as settlement here but there are many names that >keep presenting themselves from this area. > >The area around Nowra is suspicious. Again I can't pin anything down but >often read things that leave me to wonder. > >Albury is the confusing one. It seems that Albury became a Mecca taking >German residents from Victoria, Walla Walla and Holbrook. > >I find this interesting that there seems to have been such a large scattered >migration into New South Wales yet we know so little about it. I would >appreciate any information that listers can give me to help fill in the >blanks. > >Thanks in anticipation > >Albert Grulke > > > > > >==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== >For your Aus-German resources go to >http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > >============================== >Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple ports >ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to view. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx > > > > >

Hi, Have you read the book " Greeting from the land where milk and honey flows: German immigration to New South Wales 1838 - 1858." by Patricia Cloos. It is out of print but you can get from the library through Interlibrary Loan. My German ancestors settled in Greenwell Point very near ro Nowra. When they arrived in 1855 the were sponsered by Alexander Berry and work on his estate in the Shoalhaven called Coolangatta. Cheers Cheryl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Grulke" <grulke@bigpond.com.au> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: [AUS-GERMAN] New South Wales germans > In my study of the Germanic migration to Australia in the 19th century I > have come to a few conclusions. > > There can be no disputing that the major migration was to Queensland. It > happened over a longer period than did the migration to South Australia > and > they settled in a much larger area of the sate. There were also many more > than to South Australia. > > I have a strong suspicion that the next largest was to New South Wales. > Unfortunately the Germanic migration to this state seems to have been > spasmodic and more sparsely spread out. > > I am trying to pin some of these settlements down to find out where the > migrants came from and about when they came. > > Let me list what I am sure of: > > In 1810 the New South Wales administration using German State money built > the German Lutheran Church in Goulburn Street Sydney as a place for > Germans > Lutherans to worship. That church is still in use. My logic tells me that > if > the administration built with convict labour a church for German Lutherans > there must have been a reasonable number of Germans in Sydney town in > 1810. > Where did they come from? What did they do for a living? Where did they > live? > > In 1817 the settlers of the Hunter Valley using government agents enticed > a > number of German families to leave the Rhineland to come to the Hunter > Valley to work in the emerging wine industry. These were vine dressers, > wine > makers and vignerons. They bought with them some merchants and some > shepherds. Some of these people seem to have gone as far south as the > Camden > Valley but more on that in a minute. This puts the Hunter Valley as the > first wine growing district in Australia and makes Hunter Valley wines > older > than any other Australian wines. > > Now I know that there was a reasonable large Germanic settlement around > Holbrook in the south of the state. The town of Holbrook was called > Germantown by the authorities until 1917. The authorities surely would not > call a place Germantown unless there were a reasonable number of Germans > living there or would it. These Germans seemed to have disembarked in > Sydney > and travelled south. I find little or no connection between them and the > Victorian migrants. They also seem to have had no association with the > second generation Lutheran Germans who travelled from South Australia and > settled around Walla Walla. > > I have it on record that there was a large German settlement along the > Clarence River centring on Grafton. I remember that there are a couple of > small districts, maybe townships along the Princes Highway and south of > Grafton with German names. I wonder why. > > There seems to have been a large migration into Armidale and the New > England > districts. I recall that when I first became interested in the German > settlements in Australia around the 1960s I was told about a German > settlement at or near Deepwater which is between Armidale and Glenn Innes. > > I have strong reason to believe that a number of German migrants settled > in > the Narrabri district. > > In about 1870 a Lutheran pastor had eleven congregations of Lutherans > between Grafton and Narrabri. > > Campbelltown and Picton interest me. There seems to have been a migrating > population of Germans in this area. I can't seem to pin anything down to > satisfy me that there was as settlement here but there are many names that > keep presenting themselves from this area. > > The area around Nowra is suspicious. Again I can't pin anything down but > often read things that leave me to wonder. > > Albury is the confusing one. It seems that Albury became a Mecca taking > German residents from Victoria, Walla Walla and Holbrook. > > I find this interesting that there seems to have been such a large > scattered > migration into New South Wales yet we know so little about it. I would > appreciate any information that listers can give me to help fill in the > blanks. > > Thanks in anticipation > > Albert Grulke > > > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple ports > ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to view. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx >

Dear Albert, My husbands ancestors arrived in Australia in 1853, Johann Klein and Eva.Married Eva in Phalboxh Germany. Both assisted immigrants_considered "useful to the colony". Martin was a vinedresser. Both could read and write. FROM: Wurttemberg Occupation: Weinbauer Departed 20 th nov 1852 from Hamburg. Master Nyllund J.J. Arrived in Sydney on the 29th of April 1853, on board the "TRITON". conduct on board "good" Settled in Cambelltown and worked on John McArthurs farm. He was a vine dresser and farmer. Worked on Mark Lodge, Dog Trap Rd Parramatta.Now Woodville Rd, since 1879. 1872 Moved to a property on Goobang Creek - Wellington Rd Parkes Hope this information is of some help to you. Regards Debbie Klein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Grulke" <grulke@bigpond.com.au> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 8:41 AM Subject: [AUS-GERMAN] New South Wales germans > In my study of the Germanic migration to Australia in the 19th century I > have come to a few conclusions. > > There can be no disputing that the major migration was to Queensland. It > happened over a longer period than did the migration to South Australia and > they settled in a much larger area of the sate. There were also many more > than to South Australia. > > I have a strong suspicion that the next largest was to New South Wales. > Unfortunately the Germanic migration to this state seems to have been > spasmodic and more sparsely spread out. > > I am trying to pin some of these settlements down to find out where the > migrants came from and about when they came. > > Let me list what I am sure of: > > In 1810 the New South Wales administration using German State money built > the German Lutheran Church in Goulburn Street Sydney as a place for Germans > Lutherans to worship. That church is still in use. My logic tells me that if > the administration built with convict labour a church for German Lutherans > there must have been a reasonable number of Germans in Sydney town in 1810. > Where did they come from? What did they do for a living? Where did they > live? > > In 1817 the settlers of the Hunter Valley using government agents enticed a > number of German families to leave the Rhineland to come to the Hunter > Valley to work in the emerging wine industry. These were vine dressers, wine > makers and vignerons. They bought with them some merchants and some > shepherds. Some of these people seem to have gone as far south as the Camden > Valley but more on that in a minute. This puts the Hunter Valley as the > first wine growing district in Australia and makes Hunter Valley wines older > than any other Australian wines. > > Now I know that there was a reasonable large Germanic settlement around > Holbrook in the south of the state. The town of Holbrook was called > Germantown by the authorities until 1917. The authorities surely would not > call a place Germantown unless there were a reasonable number of Germans > living there or would it. These Germans seemed to have disembarked in Sydney > and travelled south. I find little or no connection between them and the > Victorian migrants. They also seem to have had no association with the > second generation Lutheran Germans who travelled from South Australia and > settled around Walla Walla. > > I have it on record that there was a large German settlement along the > Clarence River centring on Grafton. I remember that there are a couple of > small districts, maybe townships along the Princes Highway and south of > Grafton with German names. I wonder why. > > There seems to have been a large migration into Armidale and the New England > districts. I recall that when I first became interested in the German > settlements in Australia around the 1960s I was told about a German > settlement at or near Deepwater which is between Armidale and Glenn Innes. > > I have strong reason to believe that a number of German migrants settled in > the Narrabri district. > > In about 1870 a Lutheran pastor had eleven congregations of Lutherans > between Grafton and Narrabri. > > Campbelltown and Picton interest me. There seems to have been a migrating > population of Germans in this area. I can't seem to pin anything down to > satisfy me that there was as settlement here but there are many names that > keep presenting themselves from this area. > > The area around Nowra is suspicious. Again I can't pin anything down but > often read things that leave me to wonder. > > Albury is the confusing one. It seems that Albury became a Mecca taking > German residents from Victoria, Walla Walla and Holbrook. > > I find this interesting that there seems to have been such a large scattered > migration into New South Wales yet we know so little about it. I would > appreciate any information that listers can give me to help fill in the > blanks. > > Thanks in anticipation > > Albert Grulke > > > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple ports > ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to view. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx >

Hi Albert, I've been tracing my partner's mother's family (Sshumacher). The name i have for their origin is "Stetten" found on one of thier son's death cert. I do know that some of them disembarked in Queensland and NSW the ones from QLD migrated down into NSW they settled in the Clarencetown area of the Hunter Region NSW, they spread out to surrounding areas, Paterson, Raymond Terrace, Dungog, Murrurundi and Newcastle suburbs and as far down to the inner suburbs of Sydney. As Gill said they intergrated by marrying into Anglo Saxon families. The first entry i have for this family is 1857 (birth). Am still having trouble finding what their employment was on immigration, but i do know they ended up having the contract for emptying "LOO'S" in and around the Hunter. During WW2 they landed the govenment contract for the defence bases in the region. Regards, Fiona. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Baker" <troublepaddock@drumard.com> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-GERMAN] New South Wales germans > Hi Albert, > I was trying to scan two articals that I have on German migration to the > Hunter Valley BUT the scanner has had a hissy fit and died. > German Immigration to the Hunter Valley in the Mid-19th century by W S > Parkes delivered to the Maitland and District Society in July 1985. It > containes quite a lot of information on who they where where they came > from and the way that they rapidly intergrated into the society. > The other was German Bounty immigrants to NSW 1849-1856 by Jenny > Paterson in Papers of the 7th Australiasian congress on genealogy and > family history, Brisbane 1994. She is usually interested in SW German > people. > One reason that the families intergrated so rapidly was the majority on > the SW German immirants where Roman catholic and rapidly intermarried > into the Irish and Anglo Catholic families, at least that is what I think:) > We will try and get a new scanner soon and I will scan the articals and > send them to you. > Regards > Gillian > > Albert Grulke wrote: > > >In my study of the Germanic migration to Australia in the 19th century I > >have come to a few conclusions. > > > >There can be no disputing that the major migration was to Queensland. It > >happened over a longer period than did the migration to South Australia and > >they settled in a much larger area of the sate. There were also many more > >than to South Australia. > > > >I have a strong suspicion that the next largest was to New South Wales. > >Unfortunately the Germanic migration to this state seems to have been > >spasmodic and more sparsely spread out. > > > >I am trying to pin some of these settlements down to find out where the > >migrants came from and about when they came. > > > >Let me list what I am sure of: > > > >In 1810 the New South Wales administration using German State money built > >the German Lutheran Church in Goulburn Street Sydney as a place for Germans > >Lutherans to worship. That church is still in use. My logic tells me that if > >the administration built with convict labour a church for German Lutherans > >there must have been a reasonable number of Germans in Sydney town in 1810. > >Where did they come from? What did they do for a living? Where did they > >live? > > > >In 1817 the settlers of the Hunter Valley using government agents enticed a > >number of German families to leave the Rhineland to come to the Hunter > >Valley to work in the emerging wine industry. These were vine dressers, wine > >makers and vignerons. They bought with them some merchants and some > >shepherds. Some of these people seem to have gone as far south as the Camden > >Valley but more on that in a minute. This puts the Hunter Valley as the > >first wine growing district in Australia and makes Hunter Valley wines older > >than any other Australian wines. > > > >Now I know that there was a reasonable large Germanic settlement around > >Holbrook in the south of the state. The town of Holbrook was called > >Germantown by the authorities until 1917. The authorities surely would not > >call a place Germantown unless there were a reasonable number of Germans > >living there or would it. These Germans seemed to have disembarked in Sydney > >and travelled south. I find little or no connection between them and the > >Victorian migrants. They also seem to have had no association with the > >second generation Lutheran Germans who travelled from South Australia and > >settled around Walla Walla. > > > >I have it on record that there was a large German settlement along the > >Clarence River centring on Grafton. I remember that there are a couple of > >small districts, maybe townships along the Princes Highway and south of > >Grafton with German names. I wonder why. > > > >There seems to have been a large migration into Armidale and the New England > >districts. I recall that when I first became interested in the German > >settlements in Australia around the 1960s I was told about a German > >settlement at or near Deepwater which is between Armidale and Glenn Innes. > > > >I have strong reason to believe that a number of German migrants settled in > >the Narrabri district. > > > >In about 1870 a Lutheran pastor had eleven congregations of Lutherans > >between Grafton and Narrabri. > > > >Campbelltown and Picton interest me. There seems to have been a migrating > >population of Germans in this area. I can't seem to pin anything down to > >satisfy me that there was as settlement here but there are many names that > >keep presenting themselves from this area. > > > >The area around Nowra is suspicious. Again I can't pin anything down but > >often read things that leave me to wonder. > > > >Albury is the confusing one. It seems that Albury became a Mecca taking > >German residents from Victoria, Walla Walla and Holbrook. > > > >I find this interesting that there seems to have been such a large scattered > >migration into New South Wales yet we know so little about it. I would > >appreciate any information that listers can give me to help fill in the > >blanks. > > > >Thanks in anticipation > > > >Albert Grulke > > > > > > > > > > > >==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > >For your Aus-German resources go to > >http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > > >============================== > >Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple ports > >ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to view. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Hi Albert, I was trying to scan two articals that I have on German migration to the Hunter Valley BUT the scanner has had a hissy fit and died. German Immigration to the Hunter Valley in the Mid-19th century by W S Parkes delivered to the Maitland and District Society in July 1985. It containes quite a lot of information on who they where where they came from and the way that they rapidly intergrated into the society. The other was German Bounty immigrants to NSW 1849-1856 by Jenny Paterson in Papers of the 7th Australiasian congress on genealogy and family history, Brisbane 1994. She is usually interested in SW German people. One reason that the families intergrated so rapidly was the majority on the SW German immirants where Roman catholic and rapidly intermarried into the Irish and Anglo Catholic families, at least that is what I think:) We will try and get a new scanner soon and I will scan the articals and send them to you. Regards Gillian Albert Grulke wrote: >In my study of the Germanic migration to Australia in the 19th century I >have come to a few conclusions. > >There can be no disputing that the major migration was to Queensland. It >happened over a longer period than did the migration to South Australia and >they settled in a much larger area of the sate. There were also many more >than to South Australia. > >I have a strong suspicion that the next largest was to New South Wales. >Unfortunately the Germanic migration to this state seems to have been >spasmodic and more sparsely spread out. > >I am trying to pin some of these settlements down to find out where the >migrants came from and about when they came. > >Let me list what I am sure of: > >In 1810 the New South Wales administration using German State money built >the German Lutheran Church in Goulburn Street Sydney as a place for Germans >Lutherans to worship. That church is still in use. My logic tells me that if >the administration built with convict labour a church for German Lutherans >there must have been a reasonable number of Germans in Sydney town in 1810. >Where did they come from? What did they do for a living? Where did they >live? > >In 1817 the settlers of the Hunter Valley using government agents enticed a >number of German families to leave the Rhineland to come to the Hunter >Valley to work in the emerging wine industry. These were vine dressers, wine >makers and vignerons. They bought with them some merchants and some >shepherds. Some of these people seem to have gone as far south as the Camden >Valley but more on that in a minute. This puts the Hunter Valley as the >first wine growing district in Australia and makes Hunter Valley wines older >than any other Australian wines. > >Now I know that there was a reasonable large Germanic settlement around >Holbrook in the south of the state. The town of Holbrook was called >Germantown by the authorities until 1917. The authorities surely would not >call a place Germantown unless there were a reasonable number of Germans >living there or would it. These Germans seemed to have disembarked in Sydney >and travelled south. I find little or no connection between them and the >Victorian migrants. They also seem to have had no association with the >second generation Lutheran Germans who travelled from South Australia and >settled around Walla Walla. > >I have it on record that there was a large German settlement along the >Clarence River centring on Grafton. I remember that there are a couple of >small districts, maybe townships along the Princes Highway and south of >Grafton with German names. I wonder why. > >There seems to have been a large migration into Armidale and the New England >districts. I recall that when I first became interested in the German >settlements in Australia around the 1960s I was told about a German >settlement at or near Deepwater which is between Armidale and Glenn Innes. > >I have strong reason to believe that a number of German migrants settled in >the Narrabri district. > >In about 1870 a Lutheran pastor had eleven congregations of Lutherans >between Grafton and Narrabri. > >Campbelltown and Picton interest me. There seems to have been a migrating >population of Germans in this area. I can't seem to pin anything down to >satisfy me that there was as settlement here but there are many names that >keep presenting themselves from this area. > >The area around Nowra is suspicious. Again I can't pin anything down but >often read things that leave me to wonder. > >Albury is the confusing one. It seems that Albury became a Mecca taking >German residents from Victoria, Walla Walla and Holbrook. > >I find this interesting that there seems to have been such a large scattered >migration into New South Wales yet we know so little about it. I would >appreciate any information that listers can give me to help fill in the >blanks. > >Thanks in anticipation > >Albert Grulke > > > > > >==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== >For your Aus-German resources go to >http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > >============================== >Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple ports >ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to view. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx > > > > >

In my study of the Germanic migration to Australia in the 19th century I have come to a few conclusions. There can be no disputing that the major migration was to Queensland. It happened over a longer period than did the migration to South Australia and they settled in a much larger area of the sate. There were also many more than to South Australia. I have a strong suspicion that the next largest was to New South Wales. Unfortunately the Germanic migration to this state seems to have been spasmodic and more sparsely spread out. I am trying to pin some of these settlements down to find out where the migrants came from and about when they came. Let me list what I am sure of: In 1810 the New South Wales administration using German State money built the German Lutheran Church in Goulburn Street Sydney as a place for Germans Lutherans to worship. That church is still in use. My logic tells me that if the administration built with convict labour a church for German Lutherans there must have been a reasonable number of Germans in Sydney town in 1810. Where did they come from? What did they do for a living? Where did they live? In 1817 the settlers of the Hunter Valley using government agents enticed a number of German families to leave the Rhineland to come to the Hunter Valley to work in the emerging wine industry. These were vine dressers, wine makers and vignerons. They bought with them some merchants and some shepherds. Some of these people seem to have gone as far south as the Camden Valley but more on that in a minute. This puts the Hunter Valley as the first wine growing district in Australia and makes Hunter Valley wines older than any other Australian wines. Now I know that there was a reasonable large Germanic settlement around Holbrook in the south of the state. The town of Holbrook was called Germantown by the authorities until 1917. The authorities surely would not call a place Germantown unless there were a reasonable number of Germans living there or would it. These Germans seemed to have disembarked in Sydney and travelled south. I find little or no connection between them and the Victorian migrants. They also seem to have had no association with the second generation Lutheran Germans who travelled from South Australia and settled around Walla Walla. I have it on record that there was a large German settlement along the Clarence River centring on Grafton. I remember that there are a couple of small districts, maybe townships along the Princes Highway and south of Grafton with German names. I wonder why. There seems to have been a large migration into Armidale and the New England districts. I recall that when I first became interested in the German settlements in Australia around the 1960s I was told about a German settlement at or near Deepwater which is between Armidale and Glenn Innes. I have strong reason to believe that a number of German migrants settled in the Narrabri district. In about 1870 a Lutheran pastor had eleven congregations of Lutherans between Grafton and Narrabri. Campbelltown and Picton interest me. There seems to have been a migrating population of Germans in this area. I can't seem to pin anything down to satisfy me that there was as settlement here but there are many names that keep presenting themselves from this area. The area around Nowra is suspicious. Again I can't pin anything down but often read things that leave me to wonder. Albury is the confusing one. It seems that Albury became a Mecca taking German residents from Victoria, Walla Walla and Holbrook. I find this interesting that there seems to have been such a large scattered migration into New South Wales yet we know so little about it. I would appreciate any information that listers can give me to help fill in the blanks. Thanks in anticipation Albert Grulke

Hi, Albert. One of my ancestors arrived from Rosenbach, Prussia via London about 1833. I have found a record of him in Picton as early as 1841 and probably earlier. His name was John George Goethe but is George Gatty in the 1841 census and Geotty, Geothe and many other variations in other records. It seems he never spelled his name the same way twice. He was the proprietor of the Royal Arms in Picton until his death in the early 1860's (sorry I am imprecise but I am doing it from memory). He supposedly married an English woman in London before he immigrated to Australia and then a much younger Irish woman after she died. I had wondered if she was a "mail order bride" because she married him 3 weeks after she arrived here and was 30 years younger. Anyway, this is more info. than you probably want but is one German family who was in this area fairly early on. I live in San Diego, CA so haven't done any research except through the internet so I am not familiar with the history of the area any more than that. Good luck with your research, Sharon

Hello I am a new subscriber and very puzzled my my German Ancestor. She seems to have arrived aged 16 in South Australia..on the Herder..arrived 21/9/1851. Neither parent is listed. Her name.. Auguste Honig I know who she married ( Thomas Botten)and where she married (South Australia...aged 18)( her marriage certificate makes no mention of her parents)and her descendants but I can't find where she came from in Germany..one source ( who is not well enough to provide more detail) said her father was LOUIS PHILLIPE HONIG and Mother CAROLINE JUNG. I cant find where they were born except "Germany" I have looked at the IGI but can't really see anyhting that rings true. Can anyone help or offer any advice about this? Thanks for your time ...sorry no OTTO'S JILL CUMMINS

Hello Jocelyn I have the following info on Ella Maria OTTO:- 1 Ella Maria OTTO b: 19 September 1899 Highfields, Q d: 17 May 1976 Burial: Cabarlah, Q .. +Wilhelm KUHL b: 29 October 1883 Highfields, Q m: 20 October 1915 Qld d: 21 June 1947 Qld Burial: Cabarlah, Q Father: Ludwig KUHL Mother: Albertina MILKE ...... 2 Victor KUHL b: 29 November 1924 Toowoomba, Q d: 22 February 1995 Toowoomba, Q .......... +Clarice Alison BISCHOF b: 11 October 1930 m: 2 May 1953 Toowoomba, Q d: 16 June 1996 Toowoomba, Q Burial: Toowoomba, Q Father: Heinrich Albert (Harold) BISCHOF Mother: Anna DORFELD Regards Kerri ----- Original Message ----- From: Don & Jocelyn Hutchinson To: AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-GERMAN] Roll Call OTTO, STRASSBURG, KRAUSE Hello Margaret, do you think their could be a connection with your family. Hope to hear from you. Jocelyn Descendants of Adolf OTTO Generation No. 1 1. ADOLF1 OTTO He married MARIA POLZIN 31 August 1898 in Queensland, Australia. Children of ADOLF OTTO and MARIA POLZIN are: i. ELLA MARIA2 OTTO, b. 19 September 1899, Queensland ,Australia. ii. WILHELM OTTO, b. 15 November 1900, Queensland ,Australia. iii. MARIE ANNA OTTO, b. 23 August 1902, Queensland ,Australia. iv. ALFRED LUIS OTTO, b. 11 December 1903, Queensland ,Australia. v. DOROTHEA OTTO, b. 09 June 1905, Queensland ,Australia; d. 23 May 1911, Queensland ,Australia. More About DOROTHEA OTTO: Burial: May 1911, Queensland ,Australia vi. ADAF ANGALENA OTTO, b. 10 February 1907, Queensland ,Australia. vii. LENHARDT OTTO, b. 26 October 1908, Queensland ,Australia. 2. viii. ERNST FRIEDRICH OTTO, b. 22 December 1911, Queensland ,Australia. ix. STANLEY OTTO, b. 29 June 1913, Queensland ,Australia. Generation No. 2 2. ERNST FRIEDRICH2 OTTO (ADOLF1) was born 22 December 1911 in Queensland ,Australia. He married MARY ANNE GILLIES 02 November 1938 in Queensland, Australia, daughter of WILLIAM GILLIES and MABEL PERKINS. She was born 10 May 1908 in Queensland ,Australia. Children of ERNST OTTO and MARY GILLIES are: i. LINDSAY ERNEST3 OTTO, b. 31 August 1939. ii. BEVERLEY CAROL OTTO, b. 14 January 1941; m. PETER RAINFORD; b. 16 June 1932. iii. ARNOLD WILLIAM OTTO, b. 11 July 1942; m. RUTH GERCHOW; b. 20 June 1938. iv. MERVYN REGINALD OTTO, b. 03 November 1943. v. HEATHER OTTO, b. 14 February 1945. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Otto" <otts@hotkey.net.au> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 11:22 PM Subject: [AUS-GERMAN] Roll Call OTTO, STRASSBURG, KRAUSE > Hi there, I'm just reposting my interests. > > > OTTO, Carl > OTTO, Carl Friedrich > STRASSBURG, Christoph > KRAUSE, Charlotte > OTTO, Wilhelm Friedrich August > OTTO, Wilhelmina Johanna Louisa > > Carl OTTO and his wife, Louise had a son Carl, Friedrich OTTO about 1823 in > Stakyoy? Germany. I'm not sure about this 'Stakyoy'. I think it may be > some other place but sounding similar. > > He married Dorothea Louisa STRASSBURG (born abt 1817 in Drense). She was > the daughter of Christoph STRASSBURG and Charlotte KRAUSE. > > Carl OTTO and Dorothea STRASSBURG had two children, > > Wilhelm Friedrich August OTTO (born about 1854) > Wilhelmina Johanna Louisa OTTO (born about 1853) > > The above Wilhelm married Ida Anna MULLER > > Cheers, > > Margaret > > > > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Expand your family tree. Search more than 200 million names in > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== For your Aus-German resources go to http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Hello Margaret, do you think their could be a connection with your family. Hope to hear from you. Jocelyn Descendants of Adolf OTTO Generation No. 1 1. ADOLF1 OTTO He married MARIA POLZIN 31 August 1898 in Queensland, Australia. Children of ADOLF OTTO and MARIA POLZIN are: i. ELLA MARIA2 OTTO, b. 19 September 1899, Queensland ,Australia. ii. WILHELM OTTO, b. 15 November 1900, Queensland ,Australia. iii. MARIE ANNA OTTO, b. 23 August 1902, Queensland ,Australia. iv. ALFRED LUIS OTTO, b. 11 December 1903, Queensland ,Australia. v. DOROTHEA OTTO, b. 09 June 1905, Queensland ,Australia; d. 23 May 1911, Queensland ,Australia. More About DOROTHEA OTTO: Burial: May 1911, Queensland ,Australia vi. ADAF ANGALENA OTTO, b. 10 February 1907, Queensland ,Australia. vii. LENHARDT OTTO, b. 26 October 1908, Queensland ,Australia. 2. viii. ERNST FRIEDRICH OTTO, b. 22 December 1911, Queensland ,Australia. ix. STANLEY OTTO, b. 29 June 1913, Queensland ,Australia. Generation No. 2 2. ERNST FRIEDRICH2 OTTO (ADOLF1) was born 22 December 1911 in Queensland ,Australia. He married MARY ANNE GILLIES 02 November 1938 in Queensland, Australia, daughter of WILLIAM GILLIES and MABEL PERKINS. She was born 10 May 1908 in Queensland ,Australia. Children of ERNST OTTO and MARY GILLIES are: i. LINDSAY ERNEST3 OTTO, b. 31 August 1939. ii. BEVERLEY CAROL OTTO, b. 14 January 1941; m. PETER RAINFORD; b. 16 June 1932. iii. ARNOLD WILLIAM OTTO, b. 11 July 1942; m. RUTH GERCHOW; b. 20 June 1938. iv. MERVYN REGINALD OTTO, b. 03 November 1943. v. HEATHER OTTO, b. 14 February 1945. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Otto" <otts@hotkey.net.au> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 11:22 PM Subject: [AUS-GERMAN] Roll Call OTTO, STRASSBURG, KRAUSE > Hi there, I'm just reposting my interests. > > > OTTO, Carl > OTTO, Carl Friedrich > STRASSBURG, Christoph > KRAUSE, Charlotte > OTTO, Wilhelm Friedrich August > OTTO, Wilhelmina Johanna Louisa > > Carl OTTO and his wife, Louise had a son Carl, Friedrich OTTO about 1823 in > Stakyoy? Germany. I'm not sure about this 'Stakyoy'. I think it may be > some other place but sounding similar. > > He married Dorothea Louisa STRASSBURG (born abt 1817 in Drense). She was > the daughter of Christoph STRASSBURG and Charlotte KRAUSE. > > Carl OTTO and Dorothea STRASSBURG had two children, > > Wilhelm Friedrich August OTTO (born about 1854) > Wilhelmina Johanna Louisa OTTO (born about 1853) > > The above Wilhelm married Ida Anna MULLER > > Cheers, > > Margaret > > > > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Expand your family tree. Search more than 200 million names in > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >

This is the last (I think) LOHDE, Johann BOUST, Johanna LOHDE, Herman Albert Adolphe JORDAN, Fredericka Johanna JORDAN, Johan Friedrich BRANDENBURG, Christine Marie JORDAN, Marie Dorothea JORDAN, Gottfried Friedrich JORDAN, Friedrich William JORDAN, Carl Friedrich LOHDE, Annie Martha LOHDE, Franzica Helena LOHDE, Albert Adolphe LOHDE, Herman Carl LOHDE, Henry Albert Johann LOHDE and Johanna BOUST had a son, Herman Albert Adolphe LOHDE about 1839 in Grime? Brandenburg. I cannot find his entry to Australia but he married (18 July 1877 at Zillman's Waterholes) Fredericka Johanna JORDAN (born about 1846 in Lutzlud???, Brandenburg) Fredericka Johanna JORDAN was the daughter of Johann Friedrich JORDAN and Christine Marie BRANDENBURG The other siblings were Marie Dorothea JORDAN (born 17 July 1848) Gottfried Friedrich JORDAN (born 8 April 1850) Friedrich Wilhelm JORDAN (born about 1854) Carl Friedrich JORDAN (9 October 1856) Herman Albert Adolphe LOHDE and Fredericka Johanna JORDAN had the following children Annie Martha LOHDE 31 July 1878 Franzica Helena LOHDE 24 July 1880 Albert Adolphe LOHDE 30 October 1882 Herman Carl LOHDE 27 April 1885 Henry Albert LOHDE 23 December 1886 George LOHDE about 1897 The above Franzica Helena LOHDE married Samuel Charles SHENFIELD 1 January 1902. Cheers, Margaret

This is another lot of mine for posting SCHMIDT, Michael SCHMIDT, Johanna Amalia GROMBERE, Christina MULLER, Carl Friedrich OTTO, Wilhelm Frederich August OTTO, Ida Anna Michael SCHMIDT and Christina GROMBERE, whose daughter, Johanna Amalia SCHMIDT (born about 1833) married Carl Friedrich MULLER (born 5 November 1831 in Germany died 11 July 1923 in Brisbane). Johanna and Carl MULLER had children Ida Anna (my line born about 1859 in Sternhagen Angermunde) William Frederick August Charles Frederick August August Frederick William Albert Frederich William Frederick William Annie Mary Wilhelmina The above Ida Anna MULLER, married Wilhelm Frederich August OTTO at Zillman's Waterholes, Brisbane on 12 December 1878, and produced the following, William Frederick August OTTO Charles Frederick William OTTO Ernest Frederick William OTTO August Frederick William OTTO Albert Frederick William OTTO Annie Mary Wilhelmina OTTO George Carol OTTO Frederick William OTTO Maria Wilhelmina OTTO James Alexander OTTO (my fatherinlaw born 1 October 1899) James Alexander OTTO married Lillian SHENFIELD

Hi there, I'm just reposting my interests. OTTO, Carl OTTO, Carl Friedrich STRASSBURG, Christoph KRAUSE, Charlotte OTTO, Wilhelm Friedrich August OTTO, Wilhelmina Johanna Louisa Carl OTTO and his wife, Louise had a son Carl, Friedrich OTTO about 1823 in Stakyoy? Germany. I'm not sure about this 'Stakyoy'. I think it may be some other place but sounding similar. He married Dorothea Louisa STRASSBURG (born abt 1817 in Drense). She was the daughter of Christoph STRASSBURG and Charlotte KRAUSE. Carl OTTO and Dorothea STRASSBURG had two children, Wilhelm Friedrich August OTTO (born about 1854) Wilhelmina Johanna Louisa OTTO (born about 1853) The above Wilhelm married Ida Anna MULLER Cheers, Margaret

Maybe this is where the term "shot gun wedding" came from. Sorry - just joking Vee Helen Cameron <helecam@burnett.net.au> wrote: Only a man would want to know this Albert! Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Grulke" To: Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 8:26 AM Subject: [AUS-GERMAN] wedding salute > I am fascinated. > > I have read where it was a custom to have a 30 gun salute fired the night > before a German wedding. > > Why? > > What weapons were used? > > Did they fire one volley or 30 volleys? > > Anybody know the answer? > > Albert Grulke > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== For your Aus-German resources go to http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm ============================== Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple ports ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to view. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

Only a man would want to know this Albert! Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Grulke" <grulke@bigpond.com.au> To: <AUS-GERMAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 8:26 AM Subject: [AUS-GERMAN] wedding salute > I am fascinated. > > I have read where it was a custom to have a 30 gun salute fired the night > before a German wedding. > > Why? > > What weapons were used? > > Did they fire one volley or 30 volleys? > > Anybody know the answer? > > Albert Grulke > > > > ==== AUS-GERMAN Mailing List ==== > For your Aus-German resources go to > http://www.ainsleehooper.com/germlinks.htm > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

I am fascinated. I have read where it was a custom to have a 30 gun salute fired the night before a German wedding. Why? What weapons were used? Did they fire one volley or 30 volleys? Anybody know the answer? Albert Grulke