Thanks Lesley, Just being careless with my language - of course I realise it was not a marriage certificate. More concentration needed and less excitement at times. What a buzz when a name pops up of some other little familiar bit of information - especially when you are not expecting it. I, too, think this is Bernard and Ann's Elizabeth. Elizabeth was DEFINITELY taken from Ann at age 3 years upon Ann's entry in the Female Factory. I have the documents from State Archives entering all four girls into the orphanage. Poor babies! I am moved by how Ann and Bernard seemed to stick so close together and am convinced that this is a real love story. I suspect that they and their little family may have been an attractive proposition to transport when the government was looking to populate a new country. They have done all they could to be together and to get their little ones returned to them - and sadly it looks like that within a couple of years of receiving their pardons, they even died in the same year. It seems if the Government couldn't separate, them then death had no hope! They were a church going family and Margaret married one of Rev. John Dunmore Lang's Scottish immigrants before they went off in a horse and cart and helped found the town of Scone ("before a tree was felled"). I am proud of this truly remarkable little family group. I am still anxious to know how Robert "however-he-spells-his-name" fits in to the story but it has been a little difficult to find information on his death since there are SO many variances of the spelling of that name. Every time he gave his name to a clerk in that thick brogue, they wrote it down a different way! Bernard claims to have come from Armagh (not Glasgow where he was convicted and where he lived with Ann) and Robert's surname sounds Irish so they may have met through both being Irish (kindred spirits). Though Bernard was thirty years older than Robert!!!! When they were all convicted of this crime of "receiving stolen goods" on the same day. I have been unable to find any record of Bernard Hughes birth in Ireland whatsoever despite hours upon hours or research. Thank you for the information about Henry Ledge. I think this is also a variant spelling. Could be Lodge of could be Ledger. I like having something more concrete to work and go methodically from documents with but I think I may have to go 'sideways' on this one and take a punt. Henry Lodge sounds like he may be the one. Thank you for that information. An "e" and an "o" can look similar in handwriting. Thank you also for the information about the graves and the link to the cemetery. It is much appreciated. Kerri From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Friday, 19 September 2008 6:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Hi Kerri Just a few corrections to ensure your records are correct. Ann and Bernard/Barnard had both received Conditional Pardons by the time they had died. A Conditional Pardon allowed them much more freedom than just a Ticket of Leave - it gave them freedom (although not being allowed to leave the colony at that stage) :) whereas a TOL could be revoked at any time and had certain restrictions. Being in possession of a TOL still meant that you were classed as a convict. You also stated that you had received the marriage certificate for Elizabeth Hughes. This was not a marriage certificate but a church record of their marriage. Some people say that they don't contain very much information, but I don't agree with them, as they often include some clues.... as your one did. It sounds to me as though you have found the correct marriage because of the inclusion of the witnesses. You also say that you are unsure if Robert Gallagher, Gallocher and Callocher and any other variations of the spelling is the person who was convicted in Scotland at the same time. Have you found his death records ? as this may state the number of years in the colony. Have you obtained the birth certificates of any children born or died after 1856, as these also may provide further evidence. Then, on the other hand, they may not provide you with any concrete. There was no convict by the name of Henry Ledge to arrive as a convict. There was a convict by the name of Henry Lodge who arrived in 1836 on the ":Lady Kennaway" and was free by 1842. There is a book available about the Sydney Burial Ground 1819-1901 and History of Sydney's Early Cemeteries from 1788 by Johnson and Saintly and you will find a copy of this is many libraries..... some listers may have a copy of it. The headstones were moved to a variety of locations, but you could check the Botany Cemetery at: http://www.esmp.net.au/index.htm This web site is searchable - go to Search & Map facility on the left hand side. Are you certain that all the children were taken from Ann on arrival? A child of the age of 3 was sometimes still feeding from her mothers breast and was therefore allowed to stay with the mother at the Factory. That's it for now regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 4:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Leslie, To jog your memory. Ann Goldie (alias Hughes) arrived on the Louisa in 1827 with 4 little girls. Mary Ann (11) Isabella (7) Margaret (5) Elizabeth (3) All taken from her as she was put into the Female factory. I come from Margaret's line and doing pretty well with her but want to know about the other girls. I am following all leads as per your suggestions in the previous email below. I have now found on that (Marriage Certificate) that Elizabeth did marry one Robert Gallocher (you may remember that Ann Goldie was and her husband were convicted along with two teenage boys and that it occurred to me that Elizabeth may have actually married one of those boys when he arrived in the colony as the spelling of his name was different but sounded similar. (Robert Gallocher/Callocher). The Certificate arrived but did not give me the clues I was seeking. There is no age for Elizabeth Hughes given - just that she was a spinster. If it is the right Elizabeth she would have been about 18 in 1842 at the time of this marriage so the time is okay. Still don't know if it the same "Robert". I was disappointed until I decided to look up the witnesses. Henry Ledge and Mary Ledge. That marriage told me that Mary Ledge was originally Mary HUGHES! This may be Mary Ann - Elizabeth's big sister !!!! It was an exciting find BUT doesn't help a great deal as I see poor Henry Ledge died a year later! Poor Mary ...... what a life! I would have thought Mary would have remarried . There is a Mary LODGE married to a John Robinson in 1855. Could be her with a different spelling? Does anyone know if Henry Ledge was a convict? Maybe that would help me with some clues. These girls are proving very elusive but does go to show how checking every detail even the witnesses can lead to something. That is, IF this is Elizabeth's sister. It seems Ann and Bernard Hughes died soon after receiving their TOL's (they were older parents of a young family when they arrived) but it looks like the girls may have stayed "close". I am no closer to knowing if this Robert Gallocher/Callocher is the same one convicted along with the girls' parents. Has anyone any ideas? Also - is there a list anywhere of the names of the graves that were moved from Central (Railway Site). I'm struck by the "small" community Sydney town really was in those early days - so many connections between folk. Kind regards, ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message