You guys are so much help - thank you so much - my convict ancestor does seem to be quite the problem child - although as was said before times were hard. It says on your indent Lesley that he could read and write - would this be unusual for a boy his age with so many it seems court appearances. He has listed on his marriage certificate that his parents names are Thomas and Fanny, although there is no known birth in Scotland of a John to parents with those names, could it be possible that as he came out at such a young age, that he "adopted" either other convicts or who was assigned to as parents and used their names? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 10:18 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter: Trial details Hi Rhoda Perhaps the Indent is incorrect. In the "General Return of Convicts in NSW - 1837 ", John is listed as 19 years of age. As this Return is not a result of a 1837 Muster but a reconstruction of many records from the 1836 Census he may have been 14 when convicted and turned 15 before he arrived in this colony - the 5 may have been mistaken as a 6 and therefore recorded as 16 years of age on our records. I see from your message that his previous conviction in 1831 is for " theft, habit and repute" therefore not a first timer in the courts of Scotland - but on that occasion he was found "Not Guilty", so I guess that one would not be recorded as a crime. Having been sentenced again in March 1832 for " theft, habit and repute", obviously he had been convicted at some time prior to 1831 as you noted. Perhaps it was because of his age (prior to 1831) that this earlier crime was not recorded here. The Scottish convicts "appear" to have been given much harsher sentences - but when checking records I have found that usually they had been convicted previously. Young John was light-fingered - a bad habit, I hope transportation remedied. He didn't receive his Certificate of Freedom until 1848, 2 years after due in 1846...... so perhaps there is need for more research. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of CandROverson Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter: Trial details Hi Lesley The catalogue records in the National Archives for Scotand Database show that John McCarter was tried on 20 July 1831 at the High Court in Edinburgh for the crime of theft, habit and repute at Bristo Street, Edinburgh. The brief summary of the trial papers says that he had a previous conviction for theft. However on this occasion he was found 'Not Guilty'. He appeared again before the High Court on 12 March 1832 for the crime of theft, habit and repute at High Street, Edinburgh. He was found 'Guilty' and sentenced to 14 years transportation. The summary again notes that he had 1 previous conviction for theft, and that he was 14 years old. So in this case the indent was wrong about his previous convictions. Not as innocent as he appears! Times were hard and he was just a wee boy. Rhoda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kim The NAS does state:- John McCarter, alias McArthur, son of Hugh McCarter, joiner, Age: 13, twiner, Address: Back of Fountain Well, Edinburgh, with father, Origin: Born in Edinburgh .... so I don't know where the names of Thomas and Fanny come in. Although the Indent states could read or write it does not give us any indication of the level of proficiently Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Kim and Daz Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter: Trial details You guys are so much help - thank you so much - my convict ancestor does seem to be quite the problem child - although as was said before times were hard. It says on your indent Lesley that he could read and write - would this be unusual for a boy his age with so many it seems court appearances. He has listed on his marriage certificate that his parents names are Thomas and Fanny, although there is no known birth in Scotland of a John to parents with those names, could it be possible that as he came out at such a young age, that he "adopted" either other convicts or who was assigned to as parents and used their names?