Hi Kerri I addressed my email to [email protected],uk and got a very helpful reply listing all the documents in the precognition and trial papers. I bought copies of all the documents that were available and it cost me about £120. You could be more selective. There is much more detail in the precognition and trial papers than is recorded in the online catalogue summary. You should get copies of the witness statements for a start. For example I learned what my GGG Grandfather had been wearing on the day that he tried to pass a forged bill of exchange; I learned that one of his younger daughters had recently suffered serious burns (probably fallen into the hearth); I learned something about the relationship between him and his older brother. Lots of little things that made me feel a close connection to this man and the way he lived almost 200 years ago. I suggest that you are quite specific about your request and ask them to list what documents are available in the precognition and trial papers relating to the trial of Bernard and Ann Hughes. This is the general information that the NAS gave me in their response: "For serious nineteenth century criminal cases two types of record usually survive. Firstly there is the precognition, which is the written report of the evidence of witnesses to a crime, taken before the trial in order to help prepare the case against the accused. This should include the indictment and the statements of the witnesses and the accused concerning the offence. Precognitions are contained among the records of the Lord Advocate's department (series ref: AD). Secondly, there are records of the High Court of the Justiciary (series ref: JC). Cases where sentence of transportation was handed down were tried before this court, which sat in Edinburgh and on circuit. The primary justiciary records to consult are the minute books, which contain a summary of the proceedings in court (series JC6-14) and the process or case papers (series ref JC-26). " Hope that helps Rhoda R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson " <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions > > > > > From: Kerri Ferguson [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 9:30 AM > To: '[email protected]' > Subject: > > > > Hi Listers - can anyone help! > > > > I have several times sent emails to the NAS site with a question but all > get back is that voluminous electronic all-purpose message which does NOT > answer my question. > > > > In the Crown Office precognition, Ref:AD14/27/157 Bernard Hughes and Ann > Hughes (his wife) are named along with a John Reid (18 yrs) and Robert > Gallacher (17 yrs) as being the accused of the crime of theft. Both the > Hughes were eventually transported. I do not wish to go to the expense of > purchasing the records if this is all the information contained in them > i.e. > what is summed up on the "single record details" page? Can anyone tell > me > if there is more detail available in records such as these if one actually > orders and purchases them. > > > > It's just a GENERAL question about what one gets when one purchases the > records. That electronic message I keep getting does not answer this > specific question. > > > > Kerri > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Rhoda, Thank you so much. I have enquired three times and have always received the same message back - that annoying electronic thing. I really appreciate that information you gave me. Now I will try again. Since Bernard and Ann were convicted together of the same crime which is listed as theft on that "single record detail" but is everywhere else listed as "receiving stolen goods" and since they were convicted along with a John Reid (age 18) and a Robert Gallacher (age 17) I have been wondering "who did what". Sounds to me like two naughty boys brought something into the house that they shouldn't have! Ann brought her four little girls with her on the "Louisa" and the girls were put into an orphanage immediately upon arrival in Sydney in 1827. I have been able to get everything possible on my 3x Great grandmother who was one of those girls and of whom, until recently, no one knew anything of her history. Discovering there were three other girls I got interested in them as well but was unable to find anything about them. Not quite enough information to be able to zero in on a Certificate at BDM with any certainty I'm afraid. But just going over and over and over these lists with the very little information I had, I came across a marriage for an Elizabeth Hughes (that WAS one of the girls' names. She married one ROBERT CALLOCHER in 1842 at the Scots Church in Sydney. I know these two boys were also transported for 14 years - the same as Bernard and Ann. Now I know it is a long shot but certainly worth consideration. Could it be the SAME Robert GALLACHER (those wretched variances in spellings!) who was convicted with her parents in Glasgow????? I am hoping that those records would give me a clue. I suppose it's drawing a long bow ................. Isn't it fun being a detective!!!!!! Thanks again, I will get in touch with them immediately and thanks for the tip about asking what it is they have. Kerri -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of CandROverson Sent: Friday, 5 September 2008 8:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Hi Kerri I addressed my email to [email protected],uk and got a very helpful reply listing all the documents in the precognition and trial papers. I bought copies of all the documents that were available and it cost me about £120. You could be more selective. There is much more detail in the precognition and trial papers than is recorded in the online catalogue summary. You should get copies of the witness statements for a start. For example I learned what my GGG Grandfather had been wearing on the day that he tried to pass a forged bill of exchange; I learned that one of his younger daughters had recently suffered serious burns (probably fallen into the hearth); I learned something about the relationship between him and his older brother. Lots of little things that made me feel a close connection to this man and the way he lived almost 200 years ago. I suggest that you are quite specific about your request and ask them to list what documents are available in the precognition and trial papers relating to the trial of Bernard and Ann Hughes. This is the general information that the NAS gave me in their response: "For serious nineteenth century criminal cases two types of record usually survive. Firstly there is the precognition, which is the written report of the evidence of witnesses to a crime, taken before the trial in order to help prepare the case against the accused. This should include the indictment and the statements of the witnesses and the accused concerning the offence. Precognitions are contained among the records of the Lord Advocate's department (series ref: AD). Secondly, there are records of the High Court of the Justiciary (series ref: JC). Cases where sentence of transportation was handed down were tried before this court, which sat in Edinburgh and on circuit. The primary justiciary records to consult are the minute books, which contain a summary of the proceedings in court (series JC6-14) and the process or case papers (series ref JC-26). " Hope that helps Rhoda R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson " <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions > > > > > From: Kerri Ferguson [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 9:30 AM > To: '[email protected]' > Subject: > > > > Hi Listers - can anyone help! > > > > I have several times sent emails to the NAS site with a question but all > get back is that voluminous electronic all-purpose message which does NOT > answer my question. > > > > In the Crown Office precognition, Ref:AD14/27/157 Bernard Hughes and Ann > Hughes (his wife) are named along with a John Reid (18 yrs) and Robert > Gallacher (17 yrs) as being the accused of the crime of theft. Both the > Hughes were eventually transported. I do not wish to go to the expense of > purchasing the records if this is all the information contained in them > i.e. > what is summed up on the "single record details" page? Can anyone tell > me > if there is more detail available in records such as these if one actually > orders and purchases them. > > > > It's just a GENERAL question about what one gets when one purchases the > records. That electronic message I keep getting does not answer this > specific question. > > > > Kerri > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kerri I think it would be worthwhile obtaining that Marriage detail - you will note that the NSW BDMs actually have recorded this using a few different spellings: V18423641 74B/1842 GALLOCHER ROBERT HUGHES ELIZABETH V18421289 76/1842 GALLAGHER ROBERT HUGHES ELIZABETH V18421289 76/1842 CALLOCHER ROBERT HUGHES ELIZABETH It seems to me that as Robert received his Certificate of Freedom in 1842, he may have waited until he was free before marriage Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 9:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Hi Rhoda, Thank you so much. I have enquired three times and have always received the same message back - that annoying electronic thing. I really appreciate that information you gave me. Now I will try again. Since Bernard and Ann were convicted together of the same crime which is listed as theft on that "single record detail" but is everywhere else listed as "receiving stolen goods" and since they were convicted along with a John Reid (age 18) and a Robert Gallacher (age 17) I have been wondering "who did what". Sounds to me like two naughty boys brought something into the house that they shouldn't have! Ann brought her four little girls with her on the "Louisa" and the girls were put into an orphanage immediately upon arrival in Sydney in 1827. I have been able to get everything possible on my 3x Great grandmother who was one of those girls and of whom, until recently, no one knew anything of her history. Discovering there were three other girls I got interested in them as well but was unable to find anything about them. Not quite enough information to be able to zero in on a Certificate at BDM with any certainty I'm afraid. But just going over and over and over these lists with the very little information I had, I came across a marriage for an Elizabeth Hughes (that WAS one of the girls' names. She married one ROBERT CALLOCHER in 1842 at the Scots Church in Sydney. I know these two boys were also transported for 14 years - the same as Bernard and Ann. Now I know it is a long shot but certainly worth consideration. Could it be the SAME Robert GALLACHER (those wretched variances in spellings!) who was convicted with her parents in Glasgow????? I am hoping that those records would give me a clue. I suppose it's drawing a long bow ................. Isn't it fun being a detective!!!!!! Thanks again, I will get in touch with them immediately and thanks for the tip about asking what it is they have. Kerri