I have the certificate and "bank book" copies for that John as at first I too thought that was him. I understand that there were 10 year old convicts and that dates can be confused or birth dates lied about - but I really don't see how a 10 year old could pass for a 20 something year old as was the John and the Hercules and the clyde in the same year and again I am also assuming the birth year I have is correct. -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Jan Hearn Sent: Monday, 1 September 2008 5:53 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter NSW State Records lists John McCarter, alias McArthur, who received a Certificate of Freedom on 13-05-1848. He arrived in NSW on Hercules in 1832. I'm not sure why you think this can't be him. There were other 10 year old convicts, assuming the birthyear you have is correct. A photocopy of this can be purchased online. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim and Daz" <kim_daz@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] McCarter >I am so much at a loss - and thank you so much Max for trying your best to > help me. I am trying in vain to do my family tree, but there just seems > to > be people who existed, but are nowhere to be found anywhere as far as > birth/marriage/death records are concerned. > > I have no concrete information, but was always told by my uncles (who are > sadly now all deceased) that we are definitely convicts and they went so > far > as to tell me that it was for stealing bread. I have traced back to a > John > McCarter who was born in Dundee Scotland in 1822 but I cant find him > anywhere as a convict or really any information about him. There is a > John > McCarter who was a convict, but he arrived in about 1832 and I know there > is > sometimes a query on ages, but that would make my John 10 years old and I > doubt he could have passed for someone in their 20's. His parents were > Thomas and Fanny and I have no information on them or whether there were > other children. "My" John married Isabella Hicks on 25th June, 1859, she > was born in 1839, but that is the extent of the information I have for > her, > other than their children were John born in 1861 and Fanny in 1859. > > There does seem to be some info on the Scotlands People website, but I > cant > view it unless I pay for it and just at the moment I cant afford to pay > for > something that might not even be relevant. > > If anyone could help with any info and how these people could just > disappear > without death or burial notices, or how John got to Australia I would so > much appreciate it. > > Cheers > Kim > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kim, The indent for the Hercules of 1832 states the following Name: John McCarter alias McArthur Age: 16 Education: Reads and writes Religion: Protestant Marital Status: Single Native Place: Edinburgh Trade: Turner's boy Crime: Stealing silk handkerchief Tried: Edinburgh Court of Justiciary 12 march 1832 Sentence: 14 years Previous convictions: None Height: 4' 10 1/2" etc Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kim and Daz Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:34 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter I have the certificate and "bank book" copies for that John as at first I too thought that was him. I understand that there were 10 year old convicts and that dates can be confused or birth dates lied about - but I really don't see how a 10 year old could pass for a 20 something year old as was the John and the Hercules and the clyde in the same year and again I am also assuming the birth year I have is correct.

Hi Lesley The catalogue records in the National Archives for Scotand Database show that John McCarter was tried on 20 July 1831 at the High Court in Edinburgh for the crime of theft, habit and repute at Bristo Street, Edinburgh. The brief summary of the trial papers says that he had a previous conviction for theft. However on this occasion he was found 'Not Guilty'. He appeared again before the High Court on 12 March 1832 for the crime of theft, habit and repute at High Street, Edinburgh. He was found 'Guilty' and sentenced to 14 years transportation. The summary again notes that he had 1 previous conviction for theft, and that he was 14 years old. So in this case the indent was wrong about his previous convictions. Not as innocent as he appears! Times were hard and he was just a wee boy. Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:56 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter > Hi Kim, > > > The indent for the Hercules of 1832 states the following > > Name: John McCarter alias McArthur > Age: 16 > Education: Reads and writes > Religion: Protestant > Marital Status: Single > Native Place: Edinburgh > Trade: Turner's boy > Crime: Stealing silk handkerchief > Tried: Edinburgh Court of Justiciary 12 march 1832 > Sentence: 14 years > Previous convictions: None > Height: 4' 10 1/2" > > etc > > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kim and Daz > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:34 PM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter > > > I have the certificate and "bank book" copies for that John as at first I > too thought that was him. I understand that there were 10 year old > convicts > and that dates can be confused or birth dates lied about - but I really > don't see how a 10 year old could pass for a 20 something year old as was > the John and the Hercules and the clyde in the same year and again I am > also > assuming the birth year I have is correct. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Rhoda Perhaps the Indent is incorrect. In the "General Return of Convicts in NSW - 1837 ", John is listed as 19 years of age. As this Return is not a result of a 1837 Muster but a reconstruction of many records from the 1836 Census he may have been 14 when convicted and turned 15 before he arrived in this colony - the 5 may have been mistaken as a 6 and therefore recorded as 16 years of age on our records. I see from your message that his previous conviction in 1831 is for " theft, habit and repute" therefore not a first timer in the courts of Scotland - but on that occasion he was found "Not Guilty", so I guess that one would not be recorded as a crime. Having been sentenced again in March 1832 for " theft, habit and repute", obviously he had been convicted at some time prior to 1831 as you noted. Perhaps it was because of his age (prior to 1831) that this earlier crime was not recorded here. The Scottish convicts "appear" to have been given much harsher sentences - but when checking records I have found that usually they had been convicted previously. Young John was light-fingered - a bad habit, I hope transportation remedied. He didn't receive his Certificate of Freedom until 1848, 2 years after due in 1846...... so perhaps there is need for more research. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of CandROverson Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:06 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter: Trial details Hi Lesley The catalogue records in the National Archives for Scotand Database show that John McCarter was tried on 20 July 1831 at the High Court in Edinburgh for the crime of theft, habit and repute at Bristo Street, Edinburgh. The brief summary of the trial papers says that he had a previous conviction for theft. However on this occasion he was found 'Not Guilty'. He appeared again before the High Court on 12 March 1832 for the crime of theft, habit and repute at High Street, Edinburgh. He was found 'Guilty' and sentenced to 14 years transportation. The summary again notes that he had 1 previous conviction for theft, and that he was 14 years old. So in this case the indent was wrong about his previous convictions. Not as innocent as he appears! Times were hard and he was just a wee boy. Rhoda

Thank you so much Lesley, you've made my day! -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Wednesday, 3 September 2008 11:56 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter Hi Kim, The indent for the Hercules of 1832 states the following Name: John McCarter alias McArthur Age: 16 Education: Reads and writes Religion: Protestant Marital Status: Single Native Place: Edinburgh Trade: Turner's boy Crime: Stealing silk handkerchief Tried: Edinburgh Court of Justiciary 12 march 1832 Sentence: 14 years Previous convictions: None Height: 4' 10 1/2" etc Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kim and Daz Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:34 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter I have the certificate and "bank book" copies for that John as at first I too thought that was him. I understand that there were 10 year old convicts and that dates can be confused or birth dates lied about - but I really don't see how a 10 year old could pass for a 20 something year old as was the John and the Hercules and the clyde in the same year and again I am also assuming the birth year I have is correct. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Do you know his parents names? Kerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim and Daz" <kim_daz@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter > Thank you so much Lesley, you've made my day! >

I thought I did - however there is no record of a Thomas and fanny or francis having him - I am now wondering if, given he was 14 when he arrived if he "adopted" someone - as I am almost sure that the names he gave on his marriage certificate had to be given by him (1859) and he called his daughter francis and his son john called their first son Thomas so I thought it tied in with being his parents, but the dates I have for him tie into it being this john - whos father is listed on his records as john also- so confused and yet hopeful - perhaps when the marriage and death certificates finally arrive I will have some more answers - I truly hope this John is him though as I am very intrigued by him - no matter how bad he was! -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Wall Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 5:21 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter Do you know his parents names? Kerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim and Daz" <kim_daz@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter > Thank you so much Lesley, you've made my day! > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message