Hi listers, Thanks to Garry W and Liz P for their info utilised/pasted below re: John Simmons. nb: I had deftly assumed/inserted the wrong John Symmons as an ancestor - hence this call for help re: the new incoming convict John Simmonds. I will paste below what I now have re: Simmonds, his wife and their daughters, in the hope that anyone also related will get in touch and help to add more to the information - including verifying that this John Simmonds "GANGES" 1797 NSW is truly the correct one!... John Simmonds tried in London aged 16 upon his conviction at the Old Bailey 12 Dec 1792 according to Uebel and Baxter sentence 7 years = almost expired by the time he got to Australia given a 7 year sentence. Arrived NSW per "Ganges" on 2nd June 1797 "Ganges was built in 1794 in India she weighed 700 tons. Ganges departed Portsmouth in February 1797 arriving in NSW on 2/06/1797. 203 Males embarked 13 died on the voyage, disembarking 190. Master was Thomas Partickson & the surgeon was James Mileham. The Ganges was one of the first ships to be inspected by Sir James Fitzpatick, he ordered structural changes and placed ventilators on board, fumigants, medicines and water purifiers and only allowed 203 men onboard instead of the normal 300." (From Lynette Brown posting). The 1806 NSW Muster: Employed by Henry Kable as a sealer. We first find him in VDL in the 1817/18 Victualling List taken in Port Dalrymple his occupation is listed as constable at William Massey's farm. (Where is this farm? Whow was William Massey - was he Thomas William Massey?) How /where can I get more information about Simmonds work at this place? Is this the right Massey?: Perth’s history began in 1821 when Governor Macquarie, on a visit from Sydney, stayed with David Gibson of ‘Pleasant Banks’ across the river and selected the site for a township, naming it after his host’s native town in Scotland. In 1816 the site had been granted to Thomas Massey, for a time Chief Constable of early Launceston and described by Lt. Governor Sorrell as a ‘turbulent and troublesome man’, but Massey moved to land at Ellerslie near Ben Lomond, and so made way for the growth of the new settlement. http://www.nationaltrusttas.org.au/files/HeritageTouring_Perth.pdf 1819 Muster John Simmonds is still listed as "on stores", which would indicate he was still part of the constabulary in PD. "This man would have arrived VDL as an emancipated convict, and settled in the Port Dalrymple area where he married Catherine Tobin on the 1st January 1821". What was his life between 1797 and 1818??? Marriage John Simmons and Catherine Tobin M.1/1/1821 [nb: no permission needed]. Launceston St Johns Pr Ref: 506. Page 10 #505 by Banns His X Mark Her X Mark Witnesses: John Hughes Thomas W Hudson Clerk Chaplain John Youl Catherine Tobin Born: 1787 Sentenced in County Cork in August 1816 for stealing muslin 7 Years. Trade: Huckster. [Huckster: a seller of shoddy goods or to peddle: sell or offer for sale from place to place].AOT 318708? And Aot 70969. Literacy: Cannot write. Age 22;30 (1817) Police number 32: (Irish convicts to NSW by Peter Mayberry. Con 13/1 P102) Arrived on Canada (4) in 1817 to Sydney then Hobart.: arrived into Hobart on Elizabeth Henrietta. Con 40/9 p.164. #32 Arrived 27 August 1817 directly into Hobart on ELIZABETH HENRIETTA from Sydney where she had arrived from Cork on Canada (4) arrived 06 08 1817 NSW departed 21 03 1817 Cork 138 days 89 embarked 89 disembarked Jn Grigg Master Jas Allan Surgeon http://www.convictcentral.com/ Elizabeth Henrietta not listed: http://www.convictcentral.com/ 1817 Aug 11: On list of prisoners embarked per "Elizabeth Henrietta" for Hobart (Reel 6005; 4/3496 p.296) http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/t/f56c%5Fti%2Dty%2D03.htm CON 40/1/9 p164 CON 13/1/1/p92 #32 Q: Why did these women get sent onto VDL after arriving into NSW- was this regular or a one-off movment ? 1820 muster: Catherine Tobin at Port Dalrymple. Also: CARD INDEX ARCHIVES OF TASMANIA NS373/5 Archives of Tasmania (AOT) 3 entries from mouldy register from Launceston Church of England that are unscannable and were written onto card files (when?) (ref: AOT 20/3/2008): Yellow card Ref NS373/5 Thomas Symons (Sister to Ann Simons) Died 4 July 1820 Buried 6 July 1820 Age: 4 weeks Parish: Ltn Son of John Symons and Catherine Tobin Why is there no info, baptism, birth details for their middle child: Ann Simons/ Simmonds? Blue Card Ref NS373/5 Elizabeth Symmonds (Sister to Ann Simons) Parents John and Catherine Parish Launceston Abode: Near Launceston Profession: Settler Baptised: 4/5/1826 (by whom?) Elizabeth Symmonds married George Smith in 1840 in Launceston she was aged 16. Is anyone out there related to her? Catherine Tobin: 1/1/1821: Married John Simmons In Launceston St Johns Pr. Ref: 506. 1826: Free Cert. issued 8 Dec 1827: Wife of Simmons drunk and disorderly on the streets fined 5/- 25 April 1828: FS. W. Simmons D & D and fighting in the streets fined 5/- and ordered to find sureties for her good behaviour for 3 months. 8 Sept 1828: Wife of Simmons. D & D. Fined 5/- 7 Oct 1828: Wife of Simmons. D & D. Fined 5/- and ordered to find sureties for her good behaviour for 3 months. 1836-40: Four other convictions for drunkenness. Fined 5/- each time. 4 May 1839: Drunk. Fined 5/- (committed Female House of Correction 14 days in default). 26 Dec 1844: Using obscene language. Fined 5/-. 11 Sept 1852: Free cert reissued. (aged 65) (From Philip Tardiff: Notorious Strumpets and Dangerous Girls). Died:? John Simmonds died 1847 in Launceston aged 80: Death Launceston: John Simmonds #846 Launceston rgd 35/16 15/11/1847 17/11/1847 registered Deputy Registrar George Cathcart John Simmonds Male 80 years old (born 1767?) Carpenter Died from decay of nature Informant: Catherine Simmonds HER X MARK Margaret St WIFE Ann SIMONS, eldest daughter of John and Catherine, was born c.1820 ? Launceston? but no birth or baptism is registered… LTN CSO 1/122A P75 REF (BIRTHS/BAPTISMS REGISTER) BUCHANAN BOOK. Ann died on 24 November 1900 at age 80, buried Sheffield as Ann Ewington “Native of Launceston”. Ann Simons married William Keep (Convict - 7 years for housebreaking CONVICT on CLYDE 1 18/12/1830 from Portsmouth convict # 42649 216 male convicts landed) ) married at New River (Where is this?) on 16 March 1836. William Keep died in a well accident at Longford in 1847. General Index AOT: Ann Simmons Age 7 (B.1821); Elizabeth Simmons Age 4 (B.1824), Residence Tamar East, Parent John Simmons Farmer FS (Free By Servitude?) Protestant 1828. [AOT Ref: CSO 1/122a P.75]. I wish to confirm or eliminate the John Simmons below as the same one as above from Ship departures: can anyone help with this?: Simmons John Boatswain Hugh Crawford 26 May 1825 Hobart Port Jackson CSO63/1/1 p143 Simmons John Seaman Mercury 21 Sep 1852 Launceston Melbourne Mercury Free POL220/1/2 p165 Simmons John Seaman Mercury 16 Jul 1852 Launceston Melbourne Mercury Free POL220/1/2 p78 Simmons John Seaman Sally 13 Oct 1825 Hobart New Zealand CSO63/1/1 p166 Also: I want to find out what happened to the PITT shipped convict John Simmonds to eliminate him as the convict who married Catherine Tobin: http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/page74.html Lesley Uebel Claim a Convict has: [1] John Simmonds 1797 Ganges London 1792, 7 years, 16 years of age + [2] John Simmonds 1792 Pitt Old Bailey 1791 7 years ------------------------------------------- [1] http://www.historyaustralia.org.au/twconvic/tiki-index.php? page=Ganges+1797 Convicts on the Ganges in 1797 8083? Simmonds, John Convict Steal a silver table spoon First Middlesex Jury 13 April 1791 7 years (If aged 16 in 1792, born 1776, arrived Australia 1797 aged 21, married#1? in 1821 aged 45, died 1847 = 24 + 47 = aged 71. Death notice says aged 80) [2] John Simmons sent on the Pitt in 1792 aged 29 (Thus born c.1763, married 1821 aged 58, died 1847 = 47 + 37 = aged 84. Death notice says aged 80) http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp? path=sessionsPapers%2F17921215.xml end: