There is a series of books/novels written by Diana Gabaldon based firstly in the highlands of Scotland then America in the 1700s which might be of interest to Phil firstly as one of her characters is names Ian Murray & it also involves floggings & all those nasties that were part of their lives in those days. I don't know how historically accurate she was but they are a good read if nothing else. They're hard to put down but very long. Cheers. Anne from Cairns, Aus. > Heather Jacobs <heather.jacobs@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Phil, > Thank you so much for that information - you're right it's horrendous > but it > is part of our past. > Cheers > Heather > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandra & Phil West" <sandrawest@bigpond.com> > To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:03 PM > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions > > > > Heather > > > > The starting of the colony of NSW coincided with the period of the > cat. A > > cat of nine tails was used for most flogging. "Letting the cat out of > the > > bag" referred to taking the whip out of a baise bag and "not enough > room > > to > > swing a cat" came from the same period. > > > > The nine pieces of rope were about 30cms long and could be knotted to > > inflict more damage. Between strokes, the flogger would "comb the > cat" of > > gore between strokes. If the senior officer didn't feel the flogger > was > > using enough force, he would sentence him to a flogging as an example. > > > > The cat was use for one flogging only and was then destroyed. I > > understand > > the "cat" referred to the strike pattern of the whip which resembled, > for > > the first stroke or two, a large cat's claw marks. After that, the > > damage > > to the back was horrendous. > > > > Having been caned as a schoolboy, on the hand and the rear end, I know > how > > painful that was. I cringe at the concept of being tied upright, with > a > > leather apron around my kidneys (to prevent me being "permanently > > injured") > > and a piece of leather between my teeth to prevent me from screaming > > and/or > > biting through my tongue while they counted the strokes. > > > > Did I mention this was done in public and none of the spectators could > > > move, > > or adversely react or they could be next? > > > > Nice people weren't they? If you read the history of military and > naval > > history of the time, there are graphic details of this cruel > punishment. > > The British Army stopped it after the Crimean War, I believe, and > during > > WWI, they were much more civilised - they tightly lashed soldiers to a > > > wagon > > wheel in the sun with their back against the hub for hours in Field > > Punishment No 1. No water, of course. > > > > Is it any wonder that Australian soldiers were glad they were not > subject > > to > > British military law after the "Breaker" Morant episode in the Boer > War? > > My > > grandad, Ted Murray, was a Scot serving in the Australian forces and > he > > used > > tell me of the things he and his mates saw in British units. He had > mates > > in Scots units and they told him even more. > > > > Phil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Heather Jacobs > > Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2008 5:38 PM > > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions > > > > Dear Phil > > Thank you for your answer to Matt's question regarding the whipping of > > convicts. I am in the middle of a manuscript about Esther Abrams and > > Major > > George Johnston (my forefathers) and am interested in anything to do > with > > the treatment of convicts of the First Fleet - physical and emotional. > > > The > > descriptions may be a little macabre but they were real and I would > > welcome > > any stories people have about the times in the birth of our country. > > Heather > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sandra & Phil West" <sandrawest@bigpond.com> > > To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions > > > > > >> Matt > >> I am an amateur military historian and I am advised that the scarring > > >> from > >> whipping could leave the back either looking like a field ploughed by > a > >> madman or worse. Flogging was often performed by pairs and left > handers > >> were "valued" by authorities for crossing the T, thus forming almost > >> shallow > >> chevrons. > >> > >> They could reach the ribs with only four to six strokes. > >> > >> Not my idea of fun. > >> > >> Phil > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > >> [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Hall > >> Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2008 2:16 PM > >> To: AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions > >> > >> I was reading the Conditional Pardon of an ancestor (posted it at > >> http://thehistoryofmatt.blogspot.com/) and found the Physical > Description > >> interesting. Hair, eyes, tattoo, scars etc. > >> > >> One thing amiss was that I know that my ancestor George Bliss was > whipped > >> (in England) and have been told that he retained scarring on his back > > >> from > >> it. It seemed that this would be a pretty obvous physcal description. > I > >> was > >> wonderng if anyone had seen 'whipping scars' (or analogous) as a > physical > >> description? Or was it only outward appearance etc. Was there a > >> colonial/military guide to features that should be mentioned? > couldn't > >> find > >> one. > >> > >> Just curious > >> > >> cheers > >> matt > >> > >> -- > >> Matthew D. Hall > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > ---- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1746 - Release Date: > 25/10/2008 > > 5:55 PM > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1746 - Release Date: > 25/10/2008 > 5:55 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message