Hi Lesley, I understand what you're saying about each ship having several different Masters in a lifetime but I wonder why a ship would have a consistent Master for several voyages and then suddenly have a change for one voyage and then revert to the original Master? I am one who believes "if something doesn't make sense, begin to start asking questions". You're kind to take an interest and I appreciate it. The Masters of these ships would have been as diverse in personality as were our convicts. There would have been the "kind" and the "cruel". Sometimes they could have been the difference in whether people arrived alive or not! They are such an important part of the story don't you think? The voyage out interests me greatly. These poor people. In some instances 6 or 7 people confined to a space about the size of a regular modern day double bed mattress. How did they do it!!!! The lack of hygiene must have been intolerable and don't forget the added problems for female convicts. They never knew what would be their fate. (There was no TV, no newspapers to tell them about this place called Australia.) They just floated along into an abyss - not knowing what to expect. I believe they were incredible people. Such resilience!!!! Some of the pathetic ships were poor excuses at best for any reasonable form of conveyance - and yet .................... despite the months, storms, inhumane conditions, they arrived! And they put their heads down and built this wonderful country. We have such a rich heritage! I have become interested in all the players - the convicts are only one part - the ships Masters, surgeons etc, all played a major part in the story. We are so fortunate to have such a rich heritage. Kerri -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2008 6:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships Hi Kerri The thing is that ships often had more than one Master over the life of a ship and also that there were many ships named the same. I also do not think that the web site I posted is complete - I can guarantee that it isn't. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 5:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [AUS-CON] Convict ships Interesting Lesley, that Lloyds site you provided gives the name of the Master of one of the ships I am researching during that period as different to what I have in my records and as appears on other convict sites. Now another mystery to solve........ Kerri ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kerrie Ever heard about holidays - time off :) Let's say that a trip took 120 days from England to Port Jackson and then take into consideration the time taken to set the ship up to accept to convicts and also load items necessary for the voyage and the convicts in various ports etc...and then the return trip that often went by the East the load up on items to sell back in the UK, we are probably talking about the best part of a year - how many years could a Master keep that up? Yes, I agree that the characters of the various Masters (and Surgeons) of these transports were diverse - some were cruel and some were compassionate and many in-between. Over the years I have written up and shared many reports about the Masters of both kinds and they make for interesting reading. To the next part of your message - yes, the convicts did have restricted sleeping space sometimes hammocks and sometimes bunks - some trips were easier than others. Do you think that they didn't suffer the same space restrictions at home ? :) I wonder how many even had a bed to sleep in or had rations dished out at regular intervals! I think that most of our convicts knew well what could happen should they commit a crime (as they do these days). Some of these convicts, both males and females committed atrocious whilst others committed minor crimes but was not their first offence..... and some just unlucky and being tried by a Judge on a bad day - whatever! >From some of your message I feel that you may have been reading too many books or articles on the internet as after a certain time, the transport of convicts was very regulated. No, they didn't have TV but they certainly had newspapers and 'word of mouth'. They didn't all put their heads down :) to create this wonderful country and you only have to do further reading to discover and many could not or would not be told what or when to do anything. Some of the first ships to arrive were horror ships and you will find much about them on the internet - a good example is the Neptune that arrived in 1790 but you don't generally hear about the good trips. Yes, I am very proud of my convict forebears (mine were very early convicts) but at the same time I don't condone their crimes. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships Hi Lesley, I understand what you're saying about each ship having several different Masters in a lifetime but I wonder why a ship would have a consistent Master for several voyages and then suddenly have a change for one voyage and then revert to the original Master? I am one who believes "if something doesn't make sense, begin to start asking questions". You're kind to take an interest and I appreciate it. The Masters of these ships would have been as diverse in personality as were our convicts. There would have been the "kind" and the "cruel". Sometimes they could have been the difference in whether people arrived alive or not! They are such an important part of the story don't you think? The voyage out interests me greatly. These poor people. In some instances 6 or 7 people confined to a space about the size of a regular modern day double bed mattress. How did they do it!!!! The lack of hygiene must have been intolerable and don't forget the added problems for female convicts. They never knew what would be their fate. (There was no TV, no newspapers to tell them about this place called Australia.) They just floated along into an abyss - not knowing what to expect. I believe they were incredible people. Such resilience!!!! Some of the pathetic ships were poor excuses at best for any reasonable form of conveyance - and yet .................... despite the months, storms, inhumane conditions, they arrived! And they put their heads down and built this wonderful country. We have such a rich heritage! I have become interested in all the players - the convicts are only one part - the ships Masters, surgeons etc, all played a major part in the story. We are so fortunate to have such a rich heritage. Kerri

I Agree Leslie with Your the Good master comments and the increasing regulation One of my convicts to W.A. received Wine with Lunch and had a bunk to himself, He was known to remark that generally he was feed better on the boat than at home despite poaching sheep for a living. He was among the last of the Convicts to arrive in W.A. on the "Clyde" The regulations changed and a Surgeon was mandatory on all convict ships from a early date. Some masters were prosecuted in England after report's from N.S.W. were sent to London (most got off the charges but were never provided with control of a ship to N.S.W. again) I some times get frustrated with all the negative remarks. Mary Clark ( various alias) on the "Britannica" who married ? George Clarke lived a life in N.S.W. that she could never have achieved in England. George himself arrived on the "Royal Admiral" 1792 was one of the body guards to Macquarie before he died in 1810 His son became a land holder and so did the infamous Mary. They all had law abiding offspring and good pioneers of our country. Some were not so industrious for sure and did not have much luck but they faced the same situation in England where unemployment was the order of the day and stealing was the only way to stay alive. Some like Icky Solomon went back wards on reaching N.S.W. Geoff -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2008 8:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships Hi Kerrie Ever heard about holidays - time off :) Let's say that a trip took 120 days from England to Port Jackson and then take into consideration the time taken to set the ship up to accept to convicts and also load items necessary for the voyage and the convicts in various ports etc...and then the return trip that often went by the East the load up on items to sell back in the UK, we are probably talking about the best part of a year - how many years could a Master keep that up? Yes, I agree that the characters of the various Masters (and Surgeons) of these transports were diverse - some were cruel and some were compassionate and many in-between. Over the years I have written up and shared many reports about the Masters of both kinds and they make for interesting reading. To the next part of your message - yes, the convicts did have restricted sleeping space sometimes hammocks and sometimes bunks - some trips were easier than others. Do you think that they didn't suffer the same space restrictions at home ? :) I wonder how many even had a bed to sleep in or had rations dished out at regular intervals! I think that most of our convicts knew well what could happen should they commit a crime (as they do these days). Some of these convicts, both males and females committed atrocious whilst others committed minor crimes but was not their first offence..... and some just unlucky and being tried by a Judge on a bad day - whatever! >From some of your message I feel that you may have been reading too >many books or articles on the internet as after a certain time, the transport of convicts was very regulated. No, they didn't have TV but they certainly had newspapers and 'word of mouth'. They didn't all put their heads down :) to create this wonderful country and you only have to do further reading to discover and many could not or would not be told what or when to do anything. Some of the first ships to arrive were horror ships and you will find much about them on the internet - a good example is the Neptune that arrived in 1790 but you don't generally hear about the good trips. Yes, I am very proud of my convict forebears (mine were very early convicts) but at the same time I don't condone their crimes. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships

Have you seen any of Lucille H Campey's books about immigration to Canada from Scotland. She provides a very good description of the ships of the time as well as showing how the regulations and conditions improved over the 19th century. She is of course writing about the Atlantic trade but nevertheless it seems reasonable to me that the regulations and conditions would apply to all British ships She also makes the point that the "horror" ships are remembered much better than the others. See for example "Fast Sailing and Copper Bottomed" I presume you have also seen Ian Nicholson's three volume Log of Logs. HTH Peter Ferguson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships > Hi Lesley, > > I understand what you're saying about each ship having several different > Masters in a lifetime but I wonder why a ship would have a consistent > Master > for several voyages and then suddenly have a change for one voyage and > then > revert to the original Master? I am one who believes "if something doesn't > make sense, begin to start asking questions". > > You're kind to take an interest and I appreciate it. The Masters of these > ships would have been as diverse in personality as were our convicts. > There > would have been the "kind" and the "cruel". Sometimes they could have > been > the difference in whether people arrived alive or not! They are such an > important part of the story don't you think? > > The voyage out interests me greatly. These poor people. In some instances > 6 or 7 people confined to a space about the size of a regular modern day > double bed mattress. How did they do it!!!! The lack of hygiene must > have > been intolerable and don't forget the added problems for female convicts. > They never knew what would be their fate. (There was no TV, no newspapers > to tell them about this place called Australia.) They just floated along > into an abyss - not knowing what to expect. I believe they were > incredible > people. Such resilience!!!! Some of the pathetic ships were poor excuses > at best for any reasonable form of conveyance - and yet > .................... > despite the months, storms, inhumane conditions, they arrived! And they > put > their heads down and built this wonderful country. We have such a rich > heritage! > > I have become interested in all the players - the convicts are only one > part > - the ships Masters, surgeons etc, all played a major part in the story. > > We are so fortunate to have such a rich heritage. > > Kerri > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel > Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2008 6:43 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships > > > Hi Kerri > > The thing is that ships often had more than one Master over the life of a > ship > and also that there were many ships named the same. I also do not think > that > the > web site I posted is complete - I can guarantee that it isn't. > > Regards > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:[email protected] > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 5:31 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AUS-CON] Convict ships > > > > > Interesting Lesley, that Lloyds site you provided gives the name of the > Master of one of the ships I am researching during that period as > different > to what I have in my records and as appears on other convict sites. Now > another mystery to solve........ > > > > Kerri > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships > Hi Lesley, > > I understand what you're saying about each ship having several > different > Masters in a lifetime but I wonder why a ship would have a > consistent Master > for several voyages and then suddenly have a change for one voyage > and then > revert to the original Master? I am one who believes "if something > doesn't > make sense, begin to start asking questions". > > You're kind to take an interest and I appreciate it. The Masters of > these > ships would have been as diverse in personality as were our > convicts. There > would have been the "kind" and the "cruel". Sometimes they could > have been > the difference in whether people arrived alive or not! Hi Kerrie Have you had chance to investigate the wealth of info to be discovered in http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/titles > advanced search > Sydney Gazette > type in name of a ship , its surgeon or captain plus an approx date and select search and see what pops out . Quite a lot of ship, surgeon and capt info in the Colonial Secretaries Correspondence indexes on line in State records web site I just typed in 'Adamant ' and narrowed the date 17 -20 Oct 1821 Its captain was charged by ships mate George FARRIS for hording convict rations to sell for a profit in Sydney . The Capt was charged but shot thru and dont think he ever returned to Sydney ( I already knew about this ) . In looking this up I happened to notice Solomon WISEMAN had been in trouble and got fined 50 shillings for leaving the harbour without port clearance . http://convictcentral.com/ is also a very interesting web site which you may have already come across Bye MargM Beautiful Wyong Shire NSW