Heather The starting of the colony of NSW coincided with the period of the cat. A cat of nine tails was used for most flogging. "Letting the cat out of the bag" referred to taking the whip out of a baise bag and "not enough room to swing a cat" came from the same period. The nine pieces of rope were about 30cms long and could be knotted to inflict more damage. Between strokes, the flogger would "comb the cat" of gore between strokes. If the senior officer didn't feel the flogger was using enough force, he would sentence him to a flogging as an example. The cat was use for one flogging only and was then destroyed. I understand the "cat" referred to the strike pattern of the whip which resembled, for the first stroke or two, a large cat's claw marks. After that, the damage to the back was horrendous. Having been caned as a schoolboy, on the hand and the rear end, I know how painful that was. I cringe at the concept of being tied upright, with a leather apron around my kidneys (to prevent me being "permanently injured") and a piece of leather between my teeth to prevent me from screaming and/or biting through my tongue while they counted the strokes. Did I mention this was done in public and none of the spectators could move, or adversely react or they could be next? Nice people weren't they? If you read the history of military and naval history of the time, there are graphic details of this cruel punishment. The British Army stopped it after the Crimean War, I believe, and during WWI, they were much more civilised - they tightly lashed soldiers to a wagon wheel in the sun with their back against the hub for hours in Field Punishment No 1. No water, of course. Is it any wonder that Australian soldiers were glad they were not subject to British military law after the "Breaker" Morant episode in the Boer War? My grandad, Ted Murray, was a Scot serving in the Australian forces and he used tell me of the things he and his mates saw in British units. He had mates in Scots units and they told him even more. Phil -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Heather Jacobs Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2008 5:38 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions Dear Phil Thank you for your answer to Matt's question regarding the whipping of convicts. I am in the middle of a manuscript about Esther Abrams and Major George Johnston (my forefathers) and am interested in anything to do with the treatment of convicts of the First Fleet - physical and emotional. The descriptions may be a little macabre but they were real and I would welcome any stories people have about the times in the birth of our country. Heather ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra & Phil West" <sandrawest@bigpond.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions > Matt > I am an amateur military historian and I am advised that the scarring from > whipping could leave the back either looking like a field ploughed by a > madman or worse. Flogging was often performed by pairs and left handers > were "valued" by authorities for crossing the T, thus forming almost > shallow > chevrons. > > They could reach the ribs with only four to six strokes. > > Not my idea of fun. > > Phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Hall > Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2008 2:16 PM > To: AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions > > I was reading the Conditional Pardon of an ancestor (posted it at > http://thehistoryofmatt.blogspot.com/) and found the Physical Description > interesting. Hair, eyes, tattoo, scars etc. > > One thing amiss was that I know that my ancestor George Bliss was whipped > (in England) and have been told that he retained scarring on his back from > it. It seemed that this would be a pretty obvous physcal description. I > was > wonderng if anyone had seen 'whipping scars' (or analogous) as a physical > description? Or was it only outward appearance etc. Was there a > colonial/military guide to features that should be mentioned? couldn't > find > one. > > Just curious > > cheers > matt > > -- > Matthew D. Hall > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1746 - Release Date: 25/10/2008 5:55 PM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Phil, Thank you so much for that information - you're right it's horrendous but it is part of our past. Cheers Heather ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra & Phil West" <sandrawest@bigpond.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions > Heather > > The starting of the colony of NSW coincided with the period of the cat. A > cat of nine tails was used for most flogging. "Letting the cat out of the > bag" referred to taking the whip out of a baise bag and "not enough room > to > swing a cat" came from the same period. > > The nine pieces of rope were about 30cms long and could be knotted to > inflict more damage. Between strokes, the flogger would "comb the cat" of > gore between strokes. If the senior officer didn't feel the flogger was > using enough force, he would sentence him to a flogging as an example. > > The cat was use for one flogging only and was then destroyed. I > understand > the "cat" referred to the strike pattern of the whip which resembled, for > the first stroke or two, a large cat's claw marks. After that, the > damage > to the back was horrendous. > > Having been caned as a schoolboy, on the hand and the rear end, I know how > painful that was. I cringe at the concept of being tied upright, with a > leather apron around my kidneys (to prevent me being "permanently > injured") > and a piece of leather between my teeth to prevent me from screaming > and/or > biting through my tongue while they counted the strokes. > > Did I mention this was done in public and none of the spectators could > move, > or adversely react or they could be next? > > Nice people weren't they? If you read the history of military and naval > history of the time, there are graphic details of this cruel punishment. > The British Army stopped it after the Crimean War, I believe, and during > WWI, they were much more civilised - they tightly lashed soldiers to a > wagon > wheel in the sun with their back against the hub for hours in Field > Punishment No 1. No water, of course. > > Is it any wonder that Australian soldiers were glad they were not subject > to > British military law after the "Breaker" Morant episode in the Boer War? > My > grandad, Ted Murray, was a Scot serving in the Australian forces and he > used > tell me of the things he and his mates saw in British units. He had mates > in Scots units and they told him even more. > > Phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Heather Jacobs > Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2008 5:38 PM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions > > Dear Phil > Thank you for your answer to Matt's question regarding the whipping of > convicts. I am in the middle of a manuscript about Esther Abrams and > Major > George Johnston (my forefathers) and am interested in anything to do with > the treatment of convicts of the First Fleet - physical and emotional. > The > descriptions may be a little macabre but they were real and I would > welcome > any stories people have about the times in the birth of our country. > Heather > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandra & Phil West" <sandrawest@bigpond.com> > To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:13 PM > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions > > >> Matt >> I am an amateur military historian and I am advised that the scarring >> from >> whipping could leave the back either looking like a field ploughed by a >> madman or worse. Flogging was often performed by pairs and left handers >> were "valued" by authorities for crossing the T, thus forming almost >> shallow >> chevrons. >> >> They could reach the ribs with only four to six strokes. >> >> Not my idea of fun. >> >> Phil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Hall >> Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2008 2:16 PM >> To: AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [AUS-CON] Physical descriptions >> >> I was reading the Conditional Pardon of an ancestor (posted it at >> http://thehistoryofmatt.blogspot.com/) and found the Physical Description >> interesting. Hair, eyes, tattoo, scars etc. >> >> One thing amiss was that I know that my ancestor George Bliss was whipped >> (in England) and have been told that he retained scarring on his back >> from >> it. It seemed that this would be a pretty obvous physcal description. I >> was >> wonderng if anyone had seen 'whipping scars' (or analogous) as a physical >> description? Or was it only outward appearance etc. Was there a >> colonial/military guide to features that should be mentioned? couldn't >> find >> one. >> >> Just curious >> >> cheers >> matt >> >> -- >> Matthew D. Hall >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1746 - Release Date: 25/10/2008 > 5:55 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1746 - Release Date: 25/10/2008 5:55 PM