Lesley, I was going to answer your message in detail but have decided against it. As I worked for the Government for years in the area involving early Australian history and research, I have more than a superficial interest in the subject. Your "feeling" that I may have been reading too many books or articles on the internet is just a little insulting from my perspective. As for the Internet, I do not use it for that purpose. As for books and articles - I was not aware that anyone could ever read too much!!!!!!! I confess to being an avid reader - and even of papers and documents not available to the general public. I have found that family letters hold the key to "truth" much of the time. Suffering space restrictions at home is hardly pertinent is it? Firstly, many did not suffer those space restrictions at home but it is a mute point. I think many would rather have suffered space restrictions in familiar territory than on a fragile craft (and many were!) in the middle of the ocean with no way of escape in case of an emergency. I know which I'd choose! Word of mouth was not something all had experienced. Some, according to letters I have read didn't have a clue what was happening to them or what to expect in this place "beyond the seas". The first reports were mixed and not all generous in praise of this country. Having read some of the things I have, I would have been terrified to have been sent here if that's all the information I had.! Some DID put their heads down and make the best of it. Others did not. I am not so naive as to believe that there is not good and bad in every bunch. I have no argument with most of what you said but fail to see how you could assume that I didn't already realise that all of what you said was the case. Frankly I wouldn't care how much someone expected to be punished if they committed a crime, the conditions some had to deal with were simply inhumane by any civilised standards. And yes, I have heard about "holidays' and "time off" but not usually when speaking of the personnel that manned these ships years ago. For the record, I have never subscribed to the "loaf of bread" or "only stole a handkerchief" myth but, notwithstanding, there was certainly a huge amount of convicts who would never have served the time they eventually did if they served their time at "home". Even 7 years was a "life" sentence in most cases. And I would vehemently disagree that people these days know they could expect to be punished if they commit a crime! Not where I live! "Whatever" seems just a little lacking in compassion for my part. I would like to retain my compassion for the majority of them - "whatever" seems very harsh when they were after all, human beings. If I had been in the position of my forebears I would hate to think someone commented 200 years down the track ....."whatever". Anyway, I will say no more about it. And perhaps in future keep my thoughts to myself. I have never chosen to be "biased" in my reading material and surprised that anyone would "assume" I had been. If the convicts were such a miserable lot they sure produced some terrific descendants!!!! Hardly any of us can claim NOT to have one in our past. I apologise for my previous comments about the inhumane treatment of some of our early settlers. As I said, I will keep my comments to myself and put my head down into another book. Kerri -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2008 8:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships Hi Kerrie Ever heard about holidays - time off :) Let's say that a trip took 120 days from England to Port Jackson and then take into consideration the time taken to set the ship up to accept to convicts and also load items necessary for the voyage and the convicts in various ports etc...and then the return trip that often went by the East the load up on items to sell back in the UK, we are probably talking about the best part of a year - how many years could a Master keep that up? Yes, I agree that the characters of the various Masters (and Surgeons) of these transports were diverse - some were cruel and some were compassionate and many in-between. Over the years I have written up and shared many reports about the Masters of both kinds and they make for interesting reading. To the next part of your message - yes, the convicts did have restricted sleeping space sometimes hammocks and sometimes bunks - some trips were easier than others. Do you think that they didn't suffer the same space restrictions at home ? :) I wonder how many even had a bed to sleep in or had rations dished out at regular intervals! I think that most of our convicts knew well what could happen should they commit a crime (as they do these days). Some of these convicts, both males and females committed atrocious whilst others committed minor crimes but was not their first offence..... and some just unlucky and being tried by a Judge on a bad day - whatever! >From some of your message I feel that you may have been reading too many books or articles on the internet as after a certain time, the transport of convicts was very regulated. No, they didn't have TV but they certainly had newspapers and 'word of mouth'. They didn't all put their heads down :) to create this wonderful country and you only have to do further reading to discover and many could not or would not be told what or when to do anything. Some of the first ships to arrive were horror ships and you will find much about them on the internet - a good example is the Neptune that arrived in 1790 but you don't generally hear about the good trips. Yes, I am very proud of my convict forebears (mine were very early convicts) but at the same time I don't condone their crimes. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships Hi Lesley, I understand what you're saying about each ship having several different Masters in a lifetime but I wonder why a ship would have a consistent Master for several voyages and then suddenly have a change for one voyage and then revert to the original Master? I am one who believes "if something doesn't make sense, begin to start asking questions". You're kind to take an interest and I appreciate it. The Masters of these ships would have been as diverse in personality as were our convicts. There would have been the "kind" and the "cruel". Sometimes they could have been the difference in whether people arrived alive or not! They are such an important part of the story don't you think? The voyage out interests me greatly. These poor people. In some instances 6 or 7 people confined to a space about the size of a regular modern day double bed mattress. How did they do it!!!! The lack of hygiene must have been intolerable and don't forget the added problems for female convicts. They never knew what would be their fate. (There was no TV, no newspapers to tell them about this place called Australia.) They just floated along into an abyss - not knowing what to expect. I believe they were incredible people. Such resilience!!!! Some of the pathetic ships were poor excuses at best for any reasonable form of conveyance - and yet .................... despite the months, storms, inhumane conditions, they arrived! And they put their heads down and built this wonderful country. We have such a rich heritage! I have become interested in all the players - the convicts are only one part - the ships Masters, surgeons etc, all played a major part in the story. We are so fortunate to have such a rich heritage. Kerri ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message