Hi Scott What you have is a copy of the butt of the TOL and not a copy of the original. The original would have been completed correctly although I have noticed on some that the district was not filled out by the scribe at the time. I don't know what that petition was for but it may have been his application for a ticket. This *may be* included on Joan's Index although she does state that she has not included all petitions. You could try contacting the State Records of NSW to see if they could follow it up for you as you are living in the UK. With all those wives, did John have more than one child as indicated on the Indent ? The reason I ask is that you stated you were his GGGG Grandson and share his surname..... but the Indent states he had one FEMALE child. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Scott Alexander Wishart Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 9:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] John WISHART - Bengal Merchant 1838 Hi Lesley, I had another look at the Ticket of Leave but unfortunately the line that reads ³allowed to remain in the District of etc.² has been left blank. This came with the Certificate of Freedom I got from the NSW archives, so I¹m assuming this is the full Ticket of Leave? The number certainly matches up to that on the SAG website although halfway down the page somebody has written C44 which I¹m assuming refers to the Certificate of Freedom 44/264? On the side of the ToL, it says ³ Per the Gov. Minute on a petition by Wishart R W 42/9379. Would you know where 42/9379 would be? Luckily the CoF has a great deal of information regarding physical appearance, it appears that John may have been in a few fights over the years! Thanks again for your advice, I¹m thinking I might need to claim a convict on your website? Kind regards, Scott

Hi Lesley, Aha! Would it be sage to get hold of the actual ToL from the SAG website then? I¹ll also contact the State Records and ask their advice. Yes, the one female child remains a mystery as to her identity. As far as the wives go, I know the names of three, perhaps four. The first being my GGGG Grandmother who married John around 1815 in Glasgow and to date, bore him four known children. Essentially John wasn¹t a particularly nice fellow and deserted his first wife having treated her in a rather bad fashion ­ as reported in the London Times. He left her around 1832 and having been sent back to Glasgow, subsequently returning to London (where he¹d been living since 1829/30-ish) and going on a wedding spree. The female child you mentioned must have been born during this period, and is mentioned in newspaper reports of the trial from 1836/7 ­ but alas without a name. Obviously not one for being totally honest, I can only imagine that John kept quiet about his Scottish family for fear of digging himself into a deeper hole? Their was an attempt to track down my GGGG Grandmother and bring her down for the trial, however funds were lacking on the part of the sixth wife who brought him to court, and so it was left to another wife married in 1833 to prove the bigamy. Of all the children, only my GGG Grandfather (the eldest) named any of their children John. One of the sisters (born in the late 1820¹s) seemed especially unsure as to who her father was. Does that make sense? I have so much information for the period between 1831 and 1837 that I¹m still trying to make sense of it all! Best wishes, Scott

Hi Scott You cannot obtain a copy of the actual TOL only the *Office* copy i.e. the Butt. Perhaps I could liken the TOLs to a cheque book.... you retain the Butt with the original being sent to the payee and sometimes the butt has not always been completed. There are very few NSW original TOLs in existence and they can go for high dollars when one is found. You have one interesting convict there ! Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Scott Alexander Wishart Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 7:07 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] John WISHART - Bengal Merchant 1838 Hi Lesley, Aha! Would it be sage to get hold of the actual ToL from the SAG website then? I¹ll also contact the State Records and ask their advice. Yes, the one female child remains a mystery as to her identity. As far as the wives go, I know the names of three, perhaps four. The first being my GGGG Grandmother who married John around 1815 in Glasgow and to date, bore him four known children. Essentially John wasn¹t a particularly nice fellow and deserted his first wife having treated her in a rather bad fashion ­ as reported in the London Times. He left her around 1832 and having been sent back to Glasgow, subsequently returning to London (where he¹d been living since 1829/30-ish) and going on a wedding spree. The female child you mentioned must have been born during this period, and is mentioned in newspaper reports of the trial from 1836/7 ­ but alas without a name. Obviously not one for being totally honest, I can only imagine that John kept quiet about his Scottish family for fear of digging himself into a deeper hole? Their was an attempt to track down my GGGG Grandmother and bring her down for the trial, however funds were lacking on the part of the sixth wife who brought him to court, and so it was left to another wife married in 1833 to prove the bigamy. Of all the children, only my GGG Grandfather (the eldest) named any of their children John. One of the sisters (born in the late 1820¹s) seemed especially unsure as to who her father was. Does that make sense? I have so much information for the period between 1831 and 1837 that I¹m still trying to make sense of it all! Best wishes, Scott ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lesley, Thank you for your clear description as to the exact nature of ToL¹s and what exactly happened to them. So ŒFerocious John¹ (as one newspaper called him) would have folded his copy up and tucked it away for when he needed it. Almost exactly a year ago I¹d almost given up trying to find out what had happened to John, then the indexes were published on ancestry and a whole new world of research was opened up to me. From having no idea of my forebears life, to having enough information to pad out a small book in less than twelve months has been quite a journey, grim reading mostly, but utterly fascinating. Thanks again for your advice, Scott

Hi Lesley This is Judith Rowe, you have helped me out on previous occasions before, and was wondering if you could assist me again now. I have a few convicts in the families of my husband and myself. Would you please advise where I could find a copy of the certificates of freedom and also is there any way of knowing if they were issued with a cert. of freedom.at all? Also is the library the only place to look up the Indents from ship arrivals? Thanking you Judith In Very cloudy, cold ST Helens in Tassie.