Hello everyone I am looking to find out how a convict, who had a life sentence, could also be a constable before he got his ticket of leave? A distant cousin has found details of the following reference in the 'Hayes Collection" in the University of Queensland Library; "Item 1415. List of persons charged by Thomas Cassidy per "Hercules" attached to Government Domain Parramatta (as Overseer and Constable). March 1831 - November 1837. Signed Henry Bailey, Clerk of Petty Sessions, Parramatta.21.ms". It is unclear how he became a constable during this period, given he had a life sentence and did not receive his ticket of leave until 1838. I am unable to find any reference to him in the NSW 1841 census, which also seems odd given he didn't acquire a certificate of freedom until 1846. Could he have left the state during this time? My understanding is that his TOL would usually have required he stay within the district of Parramatta? Any help appreciated Veronica NT, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Veronica To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:05 AM Subject: Cassidy's from Fermanagh Hello everyone I am looking for any information anyone has about 3 brothers Edward, Phillip and Thomas Cassidy who were transported to Australia on Hercules II in 1830. Edward is known to have escaped. They were the children of Stephen Cassidy and his wife (possibly Catherine) Britton. Thomas was married previously and I am keen to trace his family in Ireland where he presumably left a wife and 2 female children. The trial was held in Fermanagh assizes in Ireland. Can anyone tell me how I can go about getting details of the trial, I have already undertaken searches at NSW State records and have some limited info, keen to do more. Would appreciate any help anyone can give, including any info about the voyage on Hercules II. Regards Veronica

Hi Veronica He certainly could have been employed as a Constable.... please read notice below and it will explain everything. Thomas will not appear in the 1841 Census as that only lists the names of householders and Thomas was still a serving convict at that time. Thomas didn't receive a Certificate of Freedom - he received a 2nd Class Conditional Pardon. Being in receive of such a CP meant he could not leave Australia. Convicts in receipt of a Ticket of Leave had to remain in the district noted on that TOL ---- Government Order 30th May 1831 It having become necessary, in order to reduce the expense of the Police Establishment, to revise the present system, His Excellency the Governor is pleased to order the following regulations to be established: viz. 1. Prisoners of the Crown shall be employed as Constables 2. Every Prisoner who shall be so employed, shall receive a Ticket of Leave at the end of three years service, provided the Magistrates under whom he has been employed, shall report that he deserves that indulgence. 3. At the expiration of five years further service, that is from the date of his receiving a Ticket of Leave, every prisoner shall, on producing a Certificate from the Magistrates as above, receive a Conditional Pardon. 4. No man will be admitted into the Establishment, unless he be able bodied, active and intelligent; nor unless he produces satisfactory testimonials of good conduct; nor will his services entitling him to a Ticket of Leave commence until he shall have been two years in the Colony, although he may have been previously appointed a constable. 5. Misconduct during the period of a prisoner's service as a constable, will deprive him of all claim to the advantages held out; and it will be the duty of the Magistrates immediately to report to the Colonial Secretary, for the Governors information, whenever a constable shall misbehave or become unfit for the duty of his position 6. The Constables will be allowed pay, while employed as above, at the rate of one shilling and nine pence a day, They are to provide themselves with food and clothing. 7. They will, of course, be entitled to the usual rewards for apprehending runaways etc. 8. These Constables will be removed occasionally from one district to another; and will not be able to cultivate land for themselves or others, or engage in business or employ themselves in any manner not immediately connected with their duty. 9. .Any person who shall employ any of these or any other paid Constable, contrary to their duty, will be made responsible for the same as far as circumstances may permit. 10. The Governor trusts, for the important nature of the boon now held out, that the services of an efficient body of Police will be ensured; and that they, with the zealous co-operation of the Magistrates in the arrangements now promulgated, will carry on the duty of the several districts at a much less expense to the public than hitherto. 11. The new organisation of the Mounted Police, which has proved the means of re-establishing the tranquility of the country, will render it unnecessary to employ the Constabulary in the pursuit of Bushrangers, should they again disturb the Colony, and a much smaller number of Constables will consequently be employed. The arrangements which have been made already enabled the Government to dispense with the services of the sixty five Constables and a further reduction will shortly be carried into effect. By His Excellency's Command Alexander McLeay Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Veronica Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 2:28 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] Thomas Cassidy from Fermanagh - Hercules Hello everyone I am looking to find out how a convict, who had a life sentence, could also be a constable before he got his ticket of leave? A distant cousin has found details of the following reference in the 'Hayes Collection" in the University of Queensland Library; "Item 1415. List of persons charged by Thomas Cassidy per "Hercules" attached to Government Domain Parramatta (as Overseer and Constable). March 1831 - November 1837. Signed Henry Bailey, Clerk of Petty Sessions, Parramatta.21.ms". It is unclear how he became a constable during this period, given he had a life sentence and did not receive his ticket of leave until 1838. I am unable to find any reference to him in the NSW 1841 census, which also seems odd given he didn't acquire a certificate of freedom until 1846. Could he have left the state during this time? My understanding is that his TOL would usually have required he stay within the district of Parramatta? Any help appreciated Veronica NT, Australia

Hi Lesley Thomas' brother Phillip Cassidy, also Hercules II 1830, does appear in the 1841 census but has the same convict status as Thomas. Do you have any idea why that might be?? Thanks Veronica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Thomas Cassidy from Fermanagh - Hercules > Hi Veronica > > He certainly could have been employed as a Constable.... please read > notice > below and it will explain everything. > > > Thomas will not appear in the 1841 Census as that only lists the names of > householders and Thomas was still a serving convict at that time. > > Thomas didn't receive a Certificate of Freedom - he received a 2nd Class > Conditional Pardon. Being in receive of such a CP meant he could not leave > Australia. Convicts in receipt of a Ticket of Leave had to remain in the > district noted on that TOL > > ---- > Government Order 30th May 1831 > > It having become necessary, in order to reduce the expense of the Police > Establishment, to revise the present system, His Excellency the Governor > is > pleased to order the following regulations to be established: viz. > > 1. Prisoners of the Crown shall be employed as Constables > > 2. Every Prisoner who shall be so employed, shall receive a Ticket of > Leave at > the end of three years service, provided the Magistrates under whom he has > been > employed, shall report that he deserves that indulgence. > > 3. At the expiration of five years further service, that is from the date > of his > receiving a Ticket of Leave, every prisoner shall, on producing a > Certificate > from the Magistrates as above, receive a Conditional Pardon. > > 4. No man will be admitted into the Establishment, unless he be able > bodied, > active and intelligent; nor unless he produces satisfactory testimonials > of good > conduct; nor will his services entitling him to a Ticket of Leave commence > until > he shall have been two years in the Colony, although he may have been > previously > appointed a constable. > > 5. Misconduct during the period of a prisoner's service as a constable, > will > deprive him of all claim to the advantages held out; and it will be the > duty of > the Magistrates immediately to report to the Colonial Secretary, for the > Governors information, whenever a constable shall misbehave or become > unfit for > the duty of his position > > 6. The Constables will be allowed pay, while employed as above, at the > rate of > one shilling and nine pence a day, They are to provide themselves with > food and > clothing. > > 7. They will, of course, be entitled to the usual rewards for apprehending > runaways etc. > > 8. These Constables will be removed occasionally from one district to > another; > and will not be able to cultivate land for themselves or others, or engage > in > business or employ themselves in any manner not immediately connected with > their > duty. > > 9. .Any person who shall employ any of these or any other paid Constable, > contrary to their duty, will be made responsible for the same as far as > circumstances may permit. > > 10. The Governor trusts, for the important nature of the boon now held > out, that > the services of an efficient body of Police will be ensured; and that > they, with > the zealous co-operation of the Magistrates in the arrangements now > promulgated, > will carry on the duty of the several districts at a much less expense to > the > public than hitherto. > > 11. The new organisation of the Mounted Police, which has proved the means > of > re-establishing the tranquility of the country, will render it unnecessary > to > employ the Constabulary in the pursuit of Bushrangers, should they again > disturb > the Colony, and a much smaller number of Constables will consequently be > employed. The arrangements which have been made already enabled the > Government > to dispense with the services of the sixty five Constables and a further > reduction will shortly be carried into effect. > > > By His Excellency's Command > Alexander McLeay > > > Regards > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Veronica > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 2:28 PM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AUS-CON] Thomas Cassidy from Fermanagh - Hercules > > > Hello everyone > > I am looking to find out how a convict, who had a life sentence, could > also be a > constable before he got his ticket of leave? A distant cousin has found > details > of the following reference in the 'Hayes Collection" in the University of > Queensland Library; "Item 1415. List of persons charged by Thomas Cassidy > per > "Hercules" attached to Government Domain Parramatta (as Overseer and > Constable). > March 1831 - November 1837. Signed Henry Bailey, Clerk of Petty Sessions, > Parramatta.21.ms". > > It is unclear how he became a constable during this period, given he had a > life > sentence and did not receive his ticket of leave until 1838. I am unable > to > find any reference to him in the NSW 1841 census, which also seems odd > given he > didn't acquire a certificate of freedom until 1846. Could he have left > the > state during this time? My understanding is that his TOL would usually > have > required he stay within the district of Parramatta? > > Any help appreciated > > Veronica > > NT, Australia > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message