Hello there, My ancestor, John HAYNES, married Mary Ann SLOMAN in Melbourne in 1849. The couple had five children in different Victorian mining townships, the last being my great grandmother, Maria, who was born at Deep Creek (Maryborough District) in 1858. Her mother died soon afterwards and John brought his surviving children to the Cootamundra/Forbes areas of NSW. I have received some guidance but as yet have not been able to verify any details regarding his background. On Maria's birth certificate John gives his birthplace as London. The marriage certificate gives no clues, except that he signed with an "X" and must have pronounced his surname "Aynes" as that is how it was recorded. The death certificate I have could be his but none of his details were known by his friends at the time of death in Bombala....a long way from Cootamundra! Any help or advice would be most welcome. Thank you Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions > It may not be correct - but worth checking the film. > > > I did check for her death with parents named but couldn't find it, > although > parents names are not always noted or known at the time. > > The only deaths I could find with those parents named are: > > > 6455/1887 MACKEON ELIZABETH BERNARD ANN DUBBO > 6455/1887 MCKEON ELIZABETH BERNARD ANN DUBBO > 6888/1898 THOMSON ELIZABETH BARNARD ANN RANDWICK > > > An Elizabeth Gallagher married a William Thomson at Scot's Church in > Sydney: > > V18541010 81/1854 THOMPSON WILLIAM GALLAGHER ELIZABETH QC > > All needs checking - but that's what family history research is all about. > > > regards > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:57 AM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions > > > Thanks for that Lesley, > > I think I will give it go - just needed a little nudge ........... > appreciate it. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It may not be correct - but worth checking the film. I did check for her death with parents named but couldn't find it, although parents names are not always noted or known at the time. The only deaths I could find with those parents named are: 6455/1887 MACKEON ELIZABETH BERNARD ANN DUBBO 6455/1887 MCKEON ELIZABETH BERNARD ANN DUBBO 6888/1898 THOMSON ELIZABETH BARNARD ANN RANDWICK An Elizabeth Gallagher married a William Thomson at Scot's Church in Sydney: V18541010 81/1854 THOMPSON WILLIAM GALLAGHER ELIZABETH QC All needs checking - but that's what family history research is all about. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:57 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Thanks for that Lesley, I think I will give it go - just needed a little nudge ........... appreciate it.

Thanks for that Lesley, I think I will give it go - just needed a little nudge ........... appreciate it. Kerri -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Friday, 5 September 2008 11:00 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Hi Kerri I think it would be worthwhile obtaining that Marriage detail - you will note that the NSW BDMs actually have recorded this using a few different spellings: V18423641 74B/1842 GALLOCHER ROBERT HUGHES ELIZABETH V18421289 76/1842 GALLAGHER ROBERT HUGHES ELIZABETH V18421289 76/1842 CALLOCHER ROBERT HUGHES ELIZABETH It seems to me that as Robert received his Certificate of Freedom in 1842, he may have waited until he was free before marriage Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 9:26 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Hi Rhoda, Thank you so much. I have enquired three times and have always received the same message back - that annoying electronic thing. I really appreciate that information you gave me. Now I will try again. Since Bernard and Ann were convicted together of the same crime which is listed as theft on that "single record detail" but is everywhere else listed as "receiving stolen goods" and since they were convicted along with a John Reid (age 18) and a Robert Gallacher (age 17) I have been wondering "who did what". Sounds to me like two naughty boys brought something into the house that they shouldn't have! Ann brought her four little girls with her on the "Louisa" and the girls were put into an orphanage immediately upon arrival in Sydney in 1827. I have been able to get everything possible on my 3x Great grandmother who was one of those girls and of whom, until recently, no one knew anything of her history. Discovering there were three other girls I got interested in them as well but was unable to find anything about them. Not quite enough information to be able to zero in on a Certificate at BDM with any certainty I'm afraid. But just going over and over and over these lists with the very little information I had, I came across a marriage for an Elizabeth Hughes (that WAS one of the girls' names. She married one ROBERT CALLOCHER in 1842 at the Scots Church in Sydney. I know these two boys were also transported for 14 years - the same as Bernard and Ann. Now I know it is a long shot but certainly worth consideration. Could it be the SAME Robert GALLACHER (those wretched variances in spellings!) who was convicted with her parents in Glasgow????? I am hoping that those records would give me a clue. I suppose it's drawing a long bow ................. Isn't it fun being a detective!!!!!! Thanks again, I will get in touch with them immediately and thanks for the tip about asking what it is they have. Kerri ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kerri I think it would be worthwhile obtaining that Marriage detail - you will note that the NSW BDMs actually have recorded this using a few different spellings: V18423641 74B/1842 GALLOCHER ROBERT HUGHES ELIZABETH V18421289 76/1842 GALLAGHER ROBERT HUGHES ELIZABETH V18421289 76/1842 CALLOCHER ROBERT HUGHES ELIZABETH It seems to me that as Robert received his Certificate of Freedom in 1842, he may have waited until he was free before marriage Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 9:26 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Hi Rhoda, Thank you so much. I have enquired three times and have always received the same message back - that annoying electronic thing. I really appreciate that information you gave me. Now I will try again. Since Bernard and Ann were convicted together of the same crime which is listed as theft on that "single record detail" but is everywhere else listed as "receiving stolen goods" and since they were convicted along with a John Reid (age 18) and a Robert Gallacher (age 17) I have been wondering "who did what". Sounds to me like two naughty boys brought something into the house that they shouldn't have! Ann brought her four little girls with her on the "Louisa" and the girls were put into an orphanage immediately upon arrival in Sydney in 1827. I have been able to get everything possible on my 3x Great grandmother who was one of those girls and of whom, until recently, no one knew anything of her history. Discovering there were three other girls I got interested in them as well but was unable to find anything about them. Not quite enough information to be able to zero in on a Certificate at BDM with any certainty I'm afraid. But just going over and over and over these lists with the very little information I had, I came across a marriage for an Elizabeth Hughes (that WAS one of the girls' names. She married one ROBERT CALLOCHER in 1842 at the Scots Church in Sydney. I know these two boys were also transported for 14 years - the same as Bernard and Ann. Now I know it is a long shot but certainly worth consideration. Could it be the SAME Robert GALLACHER (those wretched variances in spellings!) who was convicted with her parents in Glasgow????? I am hoping that those records would give me a clue. I suppose it's drawing a long bow ................. Isn't it fun being a detective!!!!!! Thanks again, I will get in touch with them immediately and thanks for the tip about asking what it is they have. Kerri

Hi again Rhoda, My computer is coming up with a message which says that it does not recognise that email address. Could you check it again for me please. It doesn't seem to like the "uk" bit. I use Microsoft Outlook Express and operate with Windows Vista if that helps. Kerri P.S. Loved the details you learned about your family - what a buzz! Poor man - can't you just "feel" the stress he must have been experiencing? -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CandROverson Sent: Friday, 5 September 2008 8:04 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Hi Kerri I addressed my email to enquiries@nas.gov,uk and got a very helpful reply listing all the documents in the precognition and trial papers. I bought copies of all the documents that were available and it cost me about £120. You could be more selective. There is much more detail in the precognition and trial papers than is recorded in the online catalogue summary. You should get copies of the witness statements for a start. For example I learned what my GGG Grandfather had been wearing on the day that he tried to pass a forged bill of exchange; I learned that one of his younger daughters had recently suffered serious burns (probably fallen into the hearth); I learned something about the relationship between him and his older brother. Lots of little things that made me feel a close connection to this man and the way he lived almost 200 years ago. I suggest that you are quite specific about your request and ask them to list what documents are available in the precognition and trial papers relating to the trial of Bernard and Ann Hughes. This is the general information that the NAS gave me in their response: "For serious nineteenth century criminal cases two types of record usually survive. Firstly there is the precognition, which is the written report of the evidence of witnesses to a crime, taken before the trial in order to help prepare the case against the accused. This should include the indictment and the statements of the witnesses and the accused concerning the offence. Precognitions are contained among the records of the Lord Advocate's department (series ref: AD). Secondly, there are records of the High Court of the Justiciary (series ref: JC). Cases where sentence of transportation was handed down were tried before this court, which sat in Edinburgh and on circuit. The primary justiciary records to consult are the minute books, which contain a summary of the proceedings in court (series JC6-14) and the process or case papers (series ref JC-26). " Hope that helps Rhoda R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson " <kerri.ferguson@bigpond.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions > > > > > From: Kerri Ferguson [mailto:kerri.ferguson@bigpond.com] > Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 9:30 AM > To: 'aus-convicts@rootsweb.com' > Subject: > > > > Hi Listers - can anyone help! > > > > I have several times sent emails to the NAS site with a question but all > get back is that voluminous electronic all-purpose message which does NOT > answer my question. > > > > In the Crown Office precognition, Ref:AD14/27/157 Bernard Hughes and Ann > Hughes (his wife) are named along with a John Reid (18 yrs) and Robert > Gallacher (17 yrs) as being the accused of the crime of theft. Both the > Hughes were eventually transported. I do not wish to go to the expense of > purchasing the records if this is all the information contained in them > i.e. > what is summed up on the "single record details" page? Can anyone tell > me > if there is more detail available in records such as these if one actually > orders and purchases them. > > > > It's just a GENERAL question about what one gets when one purchases the > records. That electronic message I keep getting does not answer this > specific question. > > > > Kerri > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kerri Sorry, I was in bed when this arrived! I am in the UK. The email address is correct BUT I typed in a comma after "gov" instead of a full-stop. Correct email address is enquiries@nas.gov.uk I have to admit that I cried when I found out about him. I thought he had died (in Scotland) before the 1841 Census and then I accidentally came across a reference to his conviction. He wasn't a young man. He was 45 with 8 daughters aged 18 and under. This was a man who had lived in a small town in Scotland all his life suddenly faced with being sent to an unknown land thousands of miles away from his family. Even the sentence is terrifying: "to be transported beyond the seas" for life. All for forging and uttering a bill of exchange. Regards Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson " <kerri.ferguson@bigpond.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Hi again Rhoda, My computer is coming up with a message which says that it does not recognise that email address. Could you check it again for me please. It doesn't seem to like the "uk" bit. I use Microsoft Outlook Express and operate with Windows Vista if that helps. Kerri P.S. Loved the details you learned about your family - what a buzz! Poor man - can't you just "feel" the stress he must have been experiencing? -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CandROverson Sent: Friday, 5 September 2008 8:04 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Hi Kerri I addressed my email to enquiries@nas.gov,uk and got a very helpful reply listing all the documents in the precognition and trial papers. I bought copies of all the documents that were available and it cost me about £120. You could be more selective. There is much more detail in the precognition and trial papers than is recorded in the online catalogue summary. You should get copies of the witness statements for a start. For example I learned what my GGG Grandfather had been wearing on the day that he tried to pass a forged bill of exchange; I learned that one of his younger daughters had recently suffered serious burns (probably fallen into the hearth); I learned something about the relationship between him and his older brother. Lots of little things that made me feel a close connection to this man and the way he lived almost 200 years ago. I suggest that you are quite specific about your request and ask them to list what documents are available in the precognition and trial papers relating to the trial of Bernard and Ann Hughes. This is the general information that the NAS gave me in their response: "For serious nineteenth century criminal cases two types of record usually survive. Firstly there is the precognition, which is the written report of the evidence of witnesses to a crime, taken before the trial in order to help prepare the case against the accused. This should include the indictment and the statements of the witnesses and the accused concerning the offence. Precognitions are contained among the records of the Lord Advocate's department (series ref: AD). Secondly, there are records of the High Court of the Justiciary (series ref: JC). Cases where sentence of transportation was handed down were tried before this court, which sat in Edinburgh and on circuit. The primary justiciary records to consult are the minute books, which contain a summary of the proceedings in court (series JC6-14) and the process or case papers (series ref JC-26). " Hope that helps Rhoda R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson " <kerri.ferguson@bigpond.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions > > > > > From: Kerri Ferguson [mailto:kerri.ferguson@bigpond.com] > Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 9:30 AM > To: 'aus-convicts@rootsweb.com' > Subject: > > > > Hi Listers - can anyone help! > > > > I have several times sent emails to the NAS site with a question but all > get back is that voluminous electronic all-purpose message which does NOT > answer my question. > > > > In the Crown Office precognition, Ref:AD14/27/157 Bernard Hughes and Ann > Hughes (his wife) are named along with a John Reid (18 yrs) and Robert > Gallacher (17 yrs) as being the accused of the crime of theft. Both the > Hughes were eventually transported. I do not wish to go to the expense of > purchasing the records if this is all the information contained in them > i.e. > what is summed up on the "single record details" page? Can anyone tell > me > if there is more detail available in records such as these if one actually > orders and purchases them. > > > > It's just a GENERAL question about what one gets when one purchases the > records. That electronic message I keep getting does not answer this > specific question. > > > > Kerri > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Rhoda, Thank you so much. I have enquired three times and have always received the same message back - that annoying electronic thing. I really appreciate that information you gave me. Now I will try again. Since Bernard and Ann were convicted together of the same crime which is listed as theft on that "single record detail" but is everywhere else listed as "receiving stolen goods" and since they were convicted along with a John Reid (age 18) and a Robert Gallacher (age 17) I have been wondering "who did what". Sounds to me like two naughty boys brought something into the house that they shouldn't have! Ann brought her four little girls with her on the "Louisa" and the girls were put into an orphanage immediately upon arrival in Sydney in 1827. I have been able to get everything possible on my 3x Great grandmother who was one of those girls and of whom, until recently, no one knew anything of her history. Discovering there were three other girls I got interested in them as well but was unable to find anything about them. Not quite enough information to be able to zero in on a Certificate at BDM with any certainty I'm afraid. But just going over and over and over these lists with the very little information I had, I came across a marriage for an Elizabeth Hughes (that WAS one of the girls' names. She married one ROBERT CALLOCHER in 1842 at the Scots Church in Sydney. I know these two boys were also transported for 14 years - the same as Bernard and Ann. Now I know it is a long shot but certainly worth consideration. Could it be the SAME Robert GALLACHER (those wretched variances in spellings!) who was convicted with her parents in Glasgow????? I am hoping that those records would give me a clue. I suppose it's drawing a long bow ................. Isn't it fun being a detective!!!!!! Thanks again, I will get in touch with them immediately and thanks for the tip about asking what it is they have. Kerri -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CandROverson Sent: Friday, 5 September 2008 8:04 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions Hi Kerri I addressed my email to enquiries@nas.gov,uk and got a very helpful reply listing all the documents in the precognition and trial papers. I bought copies of all the documents that were available and it cost me about £120. You could be more selective. There is much more detail in the precognition and trial papers than is recorded in the online catalogue summary. You should get copies of the witness statements for a start. For example I learned what my GGG Grandfather had been wearing on the day that he tried to pass a forged bill of exchange; I learned that one of his younger daughters had recently suffered serious burns (probably fallen into the hearth); I learned something about the relationship between him and his older brother. Lots of little things that made me feel a close connection to this man and the way he lived almost 200 years ago. I suggest that you are quite specific about your request and ask them to list what documents are available in the precognition and trial papers relating to the trial of Bernard and Ann Hughes. This is the general information that the NAS gave me in their response: "For serious nineteenth century criminal cases two types of record usually survive. Firstly there is the precognition, which is the written report of the evidence of witnesses to a crime, taken before the trial in order to help prepare the case against the accused. This should include the indictment and the statements of the witnesses and the accused concerning the offence. Precognitions are contained among the records of the Lord Advocate's department (series ref: AD). Secondly, there are records of the High Court of the Justiciary (series ref: JC). Cases where sentence of transportation was handed down were tried before this court, which sat in Edinburgh and on circuit. The primary justiciary records to consult are the minute books, which contain a summary of the proceedings in court (series JC6-14) and the process or case papers (series ref JC-26). " Hope that helps Rhoda R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson " <kerri.ferguson@bigpond.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions > > > > > From: Kerri Ferguson [mailto:kerri.ferguson@bigpond.com] > Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 9:30 AM > To: 'aus-convicts@rootsweb.com' > Subject: > > > > Hi Listers - can anyone help! > > > > I have several times sent emails to the NAS site with a question but all > get back is that voluminous electronic all-purpose message which does NOT > answer my question. > > > > In the Crown Office precognition, Ref:AD14/27/157 Bernard Hughes and Ann > Hughes (his wife) are named along with a John Reid (18 yrs) and Robert > Gallacher (17 yrs) as being the accused of the crime of theft. Both the > Hughes were eventually transported. I do not wish to go to the expense of > purchasing the records if this is all the information contained in them > i.e. > what is summed up on the "single record details" page? Can anyone tell > me > if there is more detail available in records such as these if one actually > orders and purchases them. > > > > It's just a GENERAL question about what one gets when one purchases the > records. That electronic message I keep getting does not answer this > specific question. > > > > Kerri > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From: Kerri Ferguson [mailto:kerri.ferguson@bigpond.com] Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 9:30 AM To: 'aus-convicts@rootsweb.com' Subject: Hi Listers - can anyone help! I have several times sent emails to the NAS site with a question but all get back is that voluminous electronic all-purpose message which does NOT answer my question. In the Crown Office precognition, Ref:AD14/27/157 Bernard Hughes and Ann Hughes (his wife) are named along with a John Reid (18 yrs) and Robert Gallacher (17 yrs) as being the accused of the crime of theft. Both the Hughes were eventually transported. I do not wish to go to the expense of purchasing the records if this is all the information contained in them i.e. what is summed up on the "single record details" page? Can anyone tell me if there is more detail available in records such as these if one actually orders and purchases them. It's just a GENERAL question about what one gets when one purchases the records. That electronic message I keep getting does not answer this specific question. Kerri

Hi Kerri I addressed my email to enquiries@nas.gov,uk and got a very helpful reply listing all the documents in the precognition and trial papers. I bought copies of all the documents that were available and it cost me about £120. You could be more selective. There is much more detail in the precognition and trial papers than is recorded in the online catalogue summary. You should get copies of the witness statements for a start. For example I learned what my GGG Grandfather had been wearing on the day that he tried to pass a forged bill of exchange; I learned that one of his younger daughters had recently suffered serious burns (probably fallen into the hearth); I learned something about the relationship between him and his older brother. Lots of little things that made me feel a close connection to this man and the way he lived almost 200 years ago. I suggest that you are quite specific about your request and ask them to list what documents are available in the precognition and trial papers relating to the trial of Bernard and Ann Hughes. This is the general information that the NAS gave me in their response: "For serious nineteenth century criminal cases two types of record usually survive. Firstly there is the precognition, which is the written report of the evidence of witnesses to a crime, taken before the trial in order to help prepare the case against the accused. This should include the indictment and the statements of the witnesses and the accused concerning the offence. Precognitions are contained among the records of the Lord Advocate's department (series ref: AD). Secondly, there are records of the High Court of the Justiciary (series ref: JC). Cases where sentence of transportation was handed down were tried before this court, which sat in Edinburgh and on circuit. The primary justiciary records to consult are the minute books, which contain a summary of the proceedings in court (series JC6-14) and the process or case papers (series ref JC-26). " Hope that helps Rhoda R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson " <kerri.ferguson@bigpond.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Scottish Archives Precognitions > > > > > From: Kerri Ferguson [mailto:kerri.ferguson@bigpond.com] > Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 9:30 AM > To: 'aus-convicts@rootsweb.com' > Subject: > > > > Hi Listers - can anyone help! > > > > I have several times sent emails to the NAS site with a question but all > get back is that voluminous electronic all-purpose message which does NOT > answer my question. > > > > In the Crown Office precognition, Ref:AD14/27/157 Bernard Hughes and Ann > Hughes (his wife) are named along with a John Reid (18 yrs) and Robert > Gallacher (17 yrs) as being the accused of the crime of theft. Both the > Hughes were eventually transported. I do not wish to go to the expense of > purchasing the records if this is all the information contained in them > i.e. > what is summed up on the "single record details" page? Can anyone tell > me > if there is more detail available in records such as these if one actually > orders and purchases them. > > > > It's just a GENERAL question about what one gets when one purchases the > records. That electronic message I keep getting does not answer this > specific question. > > > > Kerri > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It may be best to wait until you have received some certificates before we go further. In your first message to this list you stated that your Uncle said that you had convicts or a convict in the family - perhaps they meant another family line! Just keep in mind that in the General Return of Convicts - 1837 this John was assigned to the AAC Co ( Australian Agricultural Company) at Port Stephens - very near Newcastle where his marriage was registered. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kim and Daz Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:33 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter I thought I did - however there is no record of a Thomas and fanny or francis having him - I am now wondering if, given he was 14 when he arrived if he "adopted" someone - as I am almost sure that the names he gave on his marriage certificate had to be given by him (1859) and he called his daughter francis and his son john called their first son Thomas so I thought it tied in with being his parents, but the dates I have for him tie into it being this john - whos father is listed on his records as john also- so confused and yet hopeful - perhaps when the marriage and death certificates finally arrive I will have some more answers - I truly hope this John is him though as I am very intrigued by him - no matter how bad he was!

I thought I did - however there is no record of a Thomas and fanny or francis having him - I am now wondering if, given he was 14 when he arrived if he "adopted" someone - as I am almost sure that the names he gave on his marriage certificate had to be given by him (1859) and he called his daughter francis and his son john called their first son Thomas so I thought it tied in with being his parents, but the dates I have for him tie into it being this john - whos father is listed on his records as john also- so confused and yet hopeful - perhaps when the marriage and death certificates finally arrive I will have some more answers - I truly hope this John is him though as I am very intrigued by him - no matter how bad he was! -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Wall Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 5:21 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter Do you know his parents names? Kerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim and Daz" <kim_daz@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter > Thank you so much Lesley, you've made my day! > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Perhaps the Informant at his death was mistaken about the parents names. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter: Trial details > Hi Kim > > > The NAS does state:- > > John McCarter, alias McArthur, son of Hugh McCarter, joiner, Age: 13, > twiner, > Address: Back of Fountain Well, Edinburgh, with father, Origin: Born in > Edinburgh > > > .... so I don't know where the names of Thomas and Fanny come in. > > Although the Indent states could read or write it does not give us any > indication of the level of proficiently > > Regards > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kim and Daz > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:33 PM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter: Trial details > > > You guys are so much help - thank you so much - my convict ancestor does > seem to be quite the problem child - although as was said before times > were > hard. It says on your indent Lesley that he could read and write - would > this be unusual for a boy his age with so many it seems court appearances. > He has listed on his marriage certificate that his parents names are > Thomas > and Fanny, although there is no known birth in Scotland of a John to > parents > with those names, could it be possible that as he came out at such a young > age, that he "adopted" either other convicts or who was assigned to as > parents and used their names? > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Janet Have you checked the Indent for the "Countess of Harcourt" 1824 or the "Henry Wellesley" 1837. This Indent will tell you that Henry was tried at the Lancaster Quarter Sessions Court - and Rachael Atkinson at the Lancaster Assize. The Indent for the Countess of Harcourt in 1824 does not provide the crime details so you may have to contact the Lancaster County Record Office and the films of the AJCP for hulk reports. The Indent for the Henry Wellesley" does note the crimes for these girls and women and unfortunately her crime was attempting to murder her child. Are you still a member of the Casino Family History Group as they hold copies of the ARK series of microfiche. The Indent is the first place to look for information about convicts although it, in the majority of cases, will not provide you will family information. Follow that up with checking the various Muster, Census, Colonial Secretary Papers up to 1825, the Joan Reese Col. Sec. Index post 1825, the AGCI CD - NSW Government Gazettes (For Rachel), and the various newspapers that are now on-line..... to name just a few. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of janet Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:46 PM To: AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] Henry Jackson Please can anyone help with information about Henry Jackson who was transported to Australia in 1824. No nothing of his crime or family in England.

What a wealth of information I've received --- thank you to all who responded to my SOS as I research the Ralph family Cheers Joy

Do you know his parents names? Kerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim and Daz" <kim_daz@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter > Thank you so much Lesley, you've made my day! >

Hi Kim The NAS does state:- John McCarter, alias McArthur, son of Hugh McCarter, joiner, Age: 13, twiner, Address: Back of Fountain Well, Edinburgh, with father, Origin: Born in Edinburgh .... so I don't know where the names of Thomas and Fanny come in. Although the Indent states could read or write it does not give us any indication of the level of proficiently Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kim and Daz Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:33 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] McCarter: Trial details You guys are so much help - thank you so much - my convict ancestor does seem to be quite the problem child - although as was said before times were hard. It says on your indent Lesley that he could read and write - would this be unusual for a boy his age with so many it seems court appearances. He has listed on his marriage certificate that his parents names are Thomas and Fanny, although there is no known birth in Scotland of a John to parents with those names, could it be possible that as he came out at such a young age, that he "adopted" either other convicts or who was assigned to as parents and used their names?

Thankyou Stan for the information you gave me, it's a good starting point and I will check the records that you suggested. Many thanks, Janet -------Original Message------- From: Stan Elgood Date: 4/09/2008 4:13:46 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Henry Jackson Hi Janet, There are several Henry Jacksons listed in the Colonial Secretaries Index at the NSW State Records on-line index. If you are sure he arrived in 1824, he is possibly Henry Jackson per Countess of Harcourt 1824 and he is listed as follows: Jul.31 1824 assigned to Messrs. J O'Brien & R H Browne of Illawarra Aug 19 1825 convict servant of William Lane - to be victualled from the stores at Bathurst for 6 months. You can check this on-line on the NSW State Records website - click on the Index bar then zoom down to the Colonial Secretaries Index (in alphabetical order). If you go to your local library you would be able to search the 1828 census and should find more info there. I hope this helps. Good luck with you search. Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "janet" <janet@tadaust.org.au> To: <AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Henry Jackson > Please can anyone help with information about Henry Jackson who was > transported to Australia in 1824. No nothing of his crime or family in > England. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Janet, There are several Henry Jacksons listed in the Colonial Secretaries Index at the NSW State Records on-line index. If you are sure he arrived in 1824, he is possibly Henry Jackson per Countess of Harcourt 1824 and he is listed as follows: Jul.31 1824 assigned to Messrs. J O'Brien & R H Browne of Illawarra Aug 19 1825 convict servant of William Lane - to be victualled from the stores at Bathurst for 6 months. You can check this on-line on the NSW State Records website - click on the Index bar then zoom down to the Colonial Secretaries Index (in alphabetical order). If you go to your local library you would be able to search the 1828 census and should find more info there. I hope this helps. Good luck with you search. Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "janet" <janet@tadaust.org.au> To: <AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Henry Jackson > Please can anyone help with information about Henry Jackson who was > transported to Australia in 1824. No nothing of his crime or family in > England. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks for this push, Liz. I've just spent a happy couple of days investigating how to get such things as a certificate of freedom and trying to find out as much as I can from the Tasmanian archives and other online sources. And although I don't know much more about Robert McLean than I did before, I certainly know more about the Neptune and its amazing voyage in 1849/50 from the hulks of Bermuda to Cape Town and then eventually to Van Diemen's Land. And I have some idea of the arguments and politics and unrest (both in Cape Town and Tasmania) re transportation in general that this was part of. I love the way family history leads you on to learning about the past more generally. It's great (even though, as here, these complications can mean that the person you're investigating has not been included in the normal records). In case anyone wants to read more, as a P.S. I've put a summary about the Neptune, copied with thanks from the website: http://www.waanyarra.com/waanyarra/INW%20Chapter%201.html. There is also a book that the Tasmanian Archives people told me about: 'The remarkable voyage of the Neptune: February 1849 - April 1850' by Louis Hablutzel Posthumus, published in 1999 by Seaview Press, Henley Beach, S. Aust (ISBN 1876070870). This is certainly in some libraries in Australia. Also, here's another book I came across that might be of interest - 'The History of Tasmania' by John West, published in 1852. This can be downloaded in its entirety as a pdf files from Google Books, and it can be searched on-line as well (although not after you've downloaded it). Sue P.S. [The voyage of the Neptune 1849-50] Earl Grey of the British Colonial Office keenly supported the idea of allowing well behaved prisoners to be selected for resettlement in the colonies as "Exiles"-an Exile being a prisoner accepting the option of serving his or her sentence as a free person in a colony. He also maintained that many convicts, particularly the Irish, were not criminals, and should be seen for what they really were, political activists. Grey had an ideal opportunity to put these ideas to the test when, in May 1848, it was decided to dispatch 600 convicts to the Cape of Good Hope. They were to build a breakwater in Table Bay. In August of that year, Grey proposed that these convicts be exiled to the Cape, and immediately directed that 300 political offenders in Bermuda should be sent there. In a letter to the Administrator of the penal colony at Bermuda, Grey refused to accede to a request that these prisoners be sent to the Cape at no charge to themselves. He ordered that each should pay ten pounds for his passage to the Cape. Presumably this fee was deducted out of any money the prisoners earned whilst working for their jailers! ... "NEPTUNE" sailed from Bermuda on the 24th. of April 1849. For this journey she was under the command of Captain Henderson. The surgeon entrusted with the formidable task of keeping "passengers" and crew alive and as healthy as possible died before they reached the Cape. He was replaced by Surgeon Superintendent Thomas Gibson on their arrival. Being put on a Ticket of Leave meant that on their arrival at the Cape they would be handed the "Ticket", which would allow them to work for themselves in any spare time they had outside their required convict labours. The people of the Cape colony were violently opposed to these arrangements, and in June 1849, well before the arrival of the "NEPTUNE," had formed an Anti Convict Association to lobby the Colonial Office against the move. After making a brief stop at Pernambuco on the east coast of Brazil on July 18th. to replenish water and supplies, the "NEPTUNE" dropped anchor in Simon's Bay at the Cape on September 19th. 1849. By this time opposition to the landing of these men had reached hysterical proportions in the Cape colony and they could not disembark. The colony refused provisions, medical supplies and water to the "NEPTUNE," all of which had to be obtained from Mauritius. Grey came under increasing pressure to abandon his plans and eventually bowed to the wishes of his opponents, both in England and the colonies. On February 13th. 1850, some five months after arriving at the Cape, he ordered Captain Henderson to take the ageing "NEPTUNE" on her second voyage to Van Dieman's Land. In the flurry of activity preceding the departure, people from the mainland were deployed in helping with the stowing of materials and provisions on the "NEPTUNE." She sailed with 282 convicts (18 had died since leaving Bermuda), 43 troopers as guards, and 6 paying passengers. The number of crew is unknown. ... "NEPTUNE" reached the mountainous southern coast of Van Dieman's Land in early April. The waters were placid as they rounded the many promontories, wooded to the waters edge. After one night becalmed, the ship made way to the head of the D'Entrecasteaux Channel, taking on a pilot there to guide them to anchor in the Derwent river, a quarter of a mile from the quays and Custom house of Hobart Town. Officials and police were soon aboard, checking the roll and informing the men that they would be landing as free men. Thomas Gibson had kept everybody on board alive to this point, but sadly he died just ten days later at Newtown. All except John Mitchel [a famous Irish political prisoner] received conditional pardons, which meant that they gained total freedom on the condition that they did not return to England until their sentence had been served. Mitchel was given restricted freedom with a "Ticket of Leave" requiring him to report regularly to the police. (from http://www.waanyarra.com/waanyarra/INW%20Chapter%201.html) |-----Original Message----- |From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts- |bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of elizabeth edwards |Sent: 02 September 2008 17:31 |To: convicts rootsweb |Subject: [AUS-CON] Robert Maclean | | |Sue |You could get a copy of the Ticket of Leave and/or Certificate of Freedom for the |convict Robert MacLean. These would probably show his place of birth. |Best wishes |Liz |_________________________________________________________________ |Get all your favourite content with the slick new MSN Toolbar - FREE |http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354027/direct/01/ | |------------------------------- |To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS- |request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject |and the body of the message

Please can anyone help with information about Henry Jackson who was transported to Australia in 1824. No nothing of his crime or family in England.