Kim, Below is a likely option for the previous marriage of Isabella. (IN NSW) V1849627 34C/1849 HICKS WILLIAM MC LYMOND ISABELLA District : MA The Abbreviation MA in the District stands for the Following: Church of England : Australian Agricultural Company, Dungog, Eldon, Stroud, Uffington there is a death for William Hicks 4313/1857 HICKS WILLIAM Father :JOHN Mother: MARIA district: RAYMOND TERRACE there were three children to the marriage Registration Number<http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?form=IndexingSearch&SessionID=261578&sname=Hicks&gname=&fname=William&mname=Isabella&event=births&frange=1788&trange=1907&place=&x=55&y=15&reorder=regno&reorder=regno> Last Name<http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?form=IndexingSearch&SessionID=261578&sname=Hicks&gname=&fname=William&mname=Isabella&event=births&frange=1788&trange=1907&place=&x=55&y=15&reorder=regno&reorder=col2> Given Name(s)<http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?form=IndexingSearch&SessionID=261578&sname=Hicks&gname=&fname=William&mname=Isabella&event=births&frange=1788&trange=1907&place=&x=55&y=15&reorder=regno&reorder=col3> Father's Given Name(s)<http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?form=IndexingSearch&SessionID=261578&sname=Hicks&gname=&fname=William&mname=Isabella&event=births&frange=1788&trange=1907&place=&x=55&y=15&reorder=regno&reorder=col4> Mother's Given Name(s)<http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?form=IndexingSearch&SessionID=261578&sname=Hicks&gname=&fname=William&mname=Isabella&event=births&frange=1788&trange=1907&place=&x=55&y=15&reorder=regno&reorder=col5> District<http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?form=IndexingSearch&SessionID=261578&sname=Hicks&gname=&fname=William&mname=Isabella&event=births&frange=1788&trange=1907&place=&x=55&y=15&reorder=regno&reorder=col8> V18492577 35/1849 HICKS MARIA WILLIAM ISABELLA V18513089 38A/1851 HICKS ALEXANDER WILLIAM ISABELLA V18542881 40/1854 HICKS ELIZABETH WILLIAM ISABELLA That was the only marriage prior to 1859 with the Surname HICKS for the Groom and Isabella for the bride's Firstname. I wasnt able to find him arriving in NSW. However there is a convict William HICKS as Below certificate of Freedom. HICKS William Ship:Surry 1834 42/1702 27 Sep 1842 4/4377 1012 TL 38/1394 See for more info : *www.records.nsw.gov.au * ** I hope that this helps Regards Sue.

Kim You may wish to visit this web site :) http://www.fairhall.id.au/families/web/p445.htm#i14866 Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kim and Daz Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:15 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] John McCarter Hi all Finally received John's marriage and death certificates - poor postman thinks I am in love with him I'm sure - running out there each day to check the mail! John married Isabella Hicks and I was having no luck tracing her or how she came to Australia - but now after receiving his marriage certificate, it lists her as a widow, so from that I would assume Hicks was her married name. I have tried BDM for her marriage details with no luck. Not knowing her maiden name or the name of her previous husband, does anyone have any ideas how I could go about starting to find where she originated from? John was buried in Sandgate cemetery which is not far from me, so I called the cemetery and they gave me details of where his plot was. They guy I spoke to told me that his plot was very unusual, in that he was buried and then the plot was sold (I guess I can figure from this that he was very poor and he nor his family could afford to buy the plot). The unusual thing is that there are 4 people with the family name of Howells buried on top of him. This is apparently from the information given, unusual because there was a limit of 4 people to a grave and with John there are 5. He didn't know the answer, but I am wondering if because John was so poor that they have just classed him as not being there at all? We went to the plot and have taken pics, which is sort of sad to me, because it doesn't have his name listed on the headstone anywhere, which I wasn't surprised about as the Howells had every right to erect their own headstone for their family members. I am going to call again, but does anyone know if the above could be the case and also, because he is officially listed as being buried there, could I place a small momento on the site to recognise him? Thanks once again for all the help you guys give Cheers Kim

Hi Kim, In Brisbane cemeteries (mostly owned by the Brisbane City Council) a person who has been buried in a Government grave (politically correct term for "paupers grave" apparently!!) is not allowed to have a headstone, the theory being if there were relatives around to pay for a headstone they could have paid for the grave in the first place. The Government is then, after a certain time, at liberty to resell the grave to someone else. Maybe this was the situation at Sandgate cemetery. I suppose it could also be the case that if relatives turned up later not knowing the person was deceased they could then buy the grave and its status would change to a private grave. Carol

Using the NSW BDMs there is this marriage V1849627 34C/1849 HICKS WILLIAM MC LYMOND ISABELLA MA and when John married Isabella Hicks in 1859 it is recorded as being registered in the Australian Agricultural Company, Dungog, Eldon, Stroud, Uffington area. May be a possibility regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kim and Daz Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:15 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] John McCarter Hi all Finally received John's marriage and death certificates - poor postman thinks I am in love with him I'm sure - running out there each day to check the mail! John married Isabella Hicks and I was having no luck tracing her or how she came to Australia - but now after receiving his marriage certificate, it lists her as a widow, so from that I would assume Hicks was her married name. I have tried BDM for her marriage details with no luck. Not knowing her maiden name or the name of her previous husband, does anyone have any ideas how I could go about starting to find where she originated from? John was buried in Sandgate cemetery which is not far from me, so I called the cemetery and they gave me details of where his plot was. They guy I spoke to told me that his plot was very unusual, in that he was buried and then the plot was sold (I guess I can figure from this that he was very poor and he nor his family could afford to buy the plot). The unusual thing is that there are 4 people with the family name of Howells buried on top of him. This is apparently from the information given, unusual because there was a limit of 4 people to a grave and with John there are 5. He didn't know the answer, but I am wondering if because John was so poor that they have just classed him as not being there at all? We went to the plot and have taken pics, which is sort of sad to me, because it doesn't have his name listed on the headstone anywhere, which I wasn't surprised about as the Howells had every right to erect their own headstone for their family members. I am going to call again, but does anyone know if the above could be the case and also, because he is officially listed as being buried there, could I place a small momento on the site to recognise him? Thanks once again for all the help you guys give Cheers Kim

Kim. Did hid death certificate indicate how long he had been married? If so that would perhaps give you the latest possible year to look at Hicks deaths in the year or two before hand. and then perhaps look at marriages again? It's a long shot but possibly worth a try. Women seemed to remarry fairly quickly after the deaths of their husbands deaths most lokey of necessity in those days. Robyn >

Hi all Finally received John's marriage and death certificates - poor postman thinks I am in love with him I'm sure - running out there each day to check the mail! John married Isabella Hicks and I was having no luck tracing her or how she came to Australia - but now after receiving his marriage certificate, it lists her as a widow, so from that I would assume Hicks was her married name. I have tried BDM for her marriage details with no luck. Not knowing her maiden name or the name of her previous husband, does anyone have any ideas how I could go about starting to find where she originated from? John was buried in Sandgate cemetery which is not far from me, so I called the cemetery and they gave me details of where his plot was. They guy I spoke to told me that his plot was very unusual, in that he was buried and then the plot was sold (I guess I can figure from this that he was very poor and he nor his family could afford to buy the plot). The unusual thing is that there are 4 people with the family name of Howells buried on top of him. This is apparently from the information given, unusual because there was a limit of 4 people to a grave and with John there are 5. He didn't know the answer, but I am wondering if because John was so poor that they have just classed him as not being there at all? We went to the plot and have taken pics, which is sort of sad to me, because it doesn't have his name listed on the headstone anywhere, which I wasn't surprised about as the Howells had every right to erect their own headstone for their family members. I am going to call again, but does anyone know if the above could be the case and also, because he is officially listed as being buried there, could I place a small momento on the site to recognise him? Thanks once again for all the help you guys give Cheers Kim

Hi again Gerry There was also one J H Newham who left Hobart as a steerage passenger on 27 February 1852 for Melbourne on the Flying Fish Source: Archives Office of Tasmania Index to Departures 1817 - 1867 http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=11 Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Gerry Newnham Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 12:00 AM To: Aus-Convicts List Subject: [AUS-CON] FW: Convicts- Info on Newnhams to VDL Hi List! Very many thanks to everyone who answered my query and for the good advice and I will certainly follow up the links. I have expanded the Subject of this email so hope that gives everyone a clue as to what I am researching. I am trying to find out what happened to two relatives that were transported to VDL (Tasmania) in 1840 and 1843 after they were released. I have a lot of information about them from the convict records in Tasmania but after that I haven't been able to trace what happened to them. Joseph Henry NEWNHAM was transported on the Asia in 1840 and his brother, Robert NEWNHAM on the Gilmore in 1843. According to the Tasmanian archives Joseph Henry received his conditional pardon in 4th December 1849. His brother may have received his pardon on 5th October 1847 but there is another entry on his record for 1st July 1848 when he was fined for "resisting a constable in the execution of his duty". After that I have no idea of what happened to the two brothers. I haven't found them back home in Kent so perhaps they stayed in Australia. Joseph was married so his wife and child may have gone out to Australia. I don't have a record of a marriage for Robert but the records show he claimed to be married. Can anyone advise me, please, where I could look in the Australia records to see if I can locate either of them? Are there records of convicts being returned to the UK or of wives and children going out to Australia? I would be most grateful for any help. Many thanks, Gerry

Hi Gerry There was a Joseph Henry Newham who died in Victoria in 1883. Parents: William and Anne. Stated age was 75 The reason I put forward this one is that there was a Robert Newnham transported to NSW in 1824 from Sussex and his name is listed as Newham on other documents. This convict gave his native place as Tunbridge Wells. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Gerry Newnham Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 12:00 AM To: Aus-Convicts List Subject: [AUS-CON] FW: Convicts- Info on Newnhams to VDL Hi List! Very many thanks to everyone who answered my query and for the good advice and I will certainly follow up the links. I have expanded the Subject of this email so hope that gives everyone a clue as to what I am researching. I am trying to find out what happened to two relatives that were transported to VDL (Tasmania) in 1840 and 1843 after they were released. I have a lot of information about them from the convict records in Tasmania but after that I haven't been able to trace what happened to them. Joseph Henry NEWNHAM was transported on the Asia in 1840 and his brother, Robert NEWNHAM on the Gilmore in 1843. According to the Tasmanian archives Joseph Henry received his conditional pardon in 4th December 1849. His brother may have received his pardon on 5th October 1847 but there is another entry on his record for 1st July 1848 when he was fined for "resisting a constable in the execution of his duty". After that I have no idea of what happened to the two brothers. I haven't found them back home in Kent so perhaps they stayed in Australia. Joseph was married so his wife and child may have gone out to Australia. I don't have a record of a marriage for Robert but the records show he claimed to be married. Can anyone advise me, please, where I could look in the Australia records to see if I can locate either of them? Are there records of convicts being returned to the UK or of wives and children going out to Australia? I would be most grateful for any help. Many thanks, Gerry

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Newnham" <gerry@kiltie.net> To: "Aus-Convicts List" <AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:59 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] FW: Convicts- Info on Newnhams to VDL > Joseph Henry NEWNHAM was transported on the Asia in 1840 and his > brother, > Robert NEWNHAM on the Gilmore in 1843. According to the Tasmanian > archives > Joseph Henry received his conditional pardon in 4th December 1849. > His > brother may have received his pardon on 5th October 1847 but there > is > another entry on his record for 1st July 1848 when he was fined for > "resisting a constable in the execution of his duty". Hi Gerry I have checked a few records for TA, VIC, & NSW and cant find any ref to either . I wondered if they hitched a ride to California ??? The world got a huge attack of gold fever after January 1848 . Took awhile for word to get out.......... First ship to leave Hobart for California was the schooner 'Eliza' 21 Jan 1849 Quite a large number of ex convicts made it over to California and many caused trouble ......... There is alot on the Net about Sydney Duck's Bye MargM Beautiful Wyong Shire NSW

Hi Listers Qld is now in 21st Century and has BMD on line and searchable. Following is link. http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/464.htm Annette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Olsen" <sueolsensueolsen@gmail.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] FW: Convicts- Info on Newnhams to VDL > > Gerry, I would first of all try the Tasmanian Births Deaths and > Marriages.... check to see if they appear there.... and if not my next > stop > would be Victoria. Then NSW (which you can look up both of these online) > Tassy unfortunately as with queensland you have to do it the old fashioned > way unless you have a local library which holds the indexes to Births > deaths > and marriages for tasmania. > I cant see them to 1929 in Queensland.. so not likely that they came up > here. As you have all the convict details from Tassy there is not a great > deal more there you can really find out except search for immigration > records for Joseph's wife and child... if you post their names someone > might > track that bit down for you. > > Regards > > Sue. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Gerry, I would first of all try the Tasmanian Births Deaths and Marriages.... check to see if they appear there.... and if not my next stop would be Victoria. Then NSW (which you can look up both of these online) Tassy unfortunately as with queensland you have to do it the old fashioned way unless you have a local library which holds the indexes to Births deaths and marriages for tasmania. I cant see them to 1929 in Queensland.. so not likely that they came up here. As you have all the convict details from Tassy there is not a great deal more there you can really find out except search for immigration records for Joseph's wife and child... if you post their names someone might track that bit down for you. Regards Sue.

this might be your Joseph. http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON33-1-2,302,178,L,80 Leanne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Newnham" <gerry@kiltie.net> To: "Aus-Convicts List" <AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:59 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] FW: Convicts- Info on Newnhams to VDL >

Sue, Thanks. I'll check NSW online but not sure if the Tasmania and Victoria indexes are available be in the UK. Best wishes, Gerry -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sue Olsen Sent: 29 September 2008 16:23 To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] FW: Convicts- Info on Newnhams to VDL Gerry, I would first of all try the Tasmanian Births Deaths and Marriages.... check to see if they appear there.... and if not my next stop would be Victoria. Then NSW (which you can look up both of these online) Tassy unfortunately as with queensland you have to do it the old fashioned way unless you have a local library which holds the indexes to Births deaths and marriages for tasmania. I cant see them to 1929 in Queensland.. so not likely that they came up here. As you have all the convict details from Tassy there is not a great deal more there you can really find out except search for immigration records for Joseph's wife and child... if you post their names someone might track that bit down for you. Regards Sue. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List! Very many thanks to everyone who answered my query and for the good advice and I will certainly follow up the links. I have expanded the Subject of this email so hope that gives everyone a clue as to what I am researching. I am trying to find out what happened to two relatives that were transported to VDL (Tasmania) in 1840 and 1843 after they were released. I have a lot of information about them from the convict records in Tasmania but after that I haven't been able to trace what happened to them. Joseph Henry NEWNHAM was transported on the Asia in 1840 and his brother, Robert NEWNHAM on the Gilmore in 1843. According to the Tasmanian archives Joseph Henry received his conditional pardon in 4th December 1849. His brother may have received his pardon on 5th October 1847 but there is another entry on his record for 1st July 1848 when he was fined for "resisting a constable in the execution of his duty". After that I have no idea of what happened to the two brothers. I haven't found them back home in Kent so perhaps they stayed in Australia. Joseph was married so his wife and child may have gone out to Australia. I don't have a record of a marriage for Robert but the records show he claimed to be married. Can anyone advise me, please, where I could look in the Australia records to see if I can locate either of them? Are there records of convicts being returned to the UK or of wives and children going out to Australia? I would be most grateful for any help. Many thanks, Gerry

Hello Sue, David was a married man with 5 children and of C of E religion. -------Original Message------- From: Sue Olsen Date: 29/09/2008 2:45:06 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] The final resting place of David Jones Max, I would also check the newspapers... most likely would have been something in the paper about it.. also check the death certificate to see if there was an inquest into his death.. sounds like there would have been- the words self strangulation while intoxicated.. implies that this information was discovered which usually (well in my mind) would imply there would have.... If it wasnt such a specific thing suicide/ murder by strangulation.. would usually have been used. As to the burial... death certificate should tell you that... but if not at least the location that he died would help... Also as to the question would it have effected where he was buried.. i would think it would depend on his religion.. and if he had a family or if he was buried in a public grave. Hope this helps Sue. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message .

Many thanks Leslie -------Original Message------- From: Lesley Uebel Date: 28/09/2008 11:38:52 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] The final resting place of David Jones Hi Max The Death Certificate should show where he was buried. It sounds as though it may have been accidental. My husband had a first cousin, a few time removed who was buried in the C of E section at Rookwood - cause of death was "wilfully inhaling coal gas" An Inquest was held.... of course. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Max Bancroft Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:15 PM To: AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] The final resting place of David Jones I would be interested in knowing the final resting place of David Jones who died 29 Nov 1872 in Sydney. I was told he died of self strangulation while intoxicated. If this was considered suicide, would this have a bearing as to where he was interred? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message .

Max, I would also check the newspapers... most likely would have been something in the paper about it.. also check the death certificate to see if there was an inquest into his death.. sounds like there would have been- the words self strangulation while intoxicated.. implies that this information was discovered which usually (well in my mind) would imply there would have.... If it wasnt such a specific thing suicide/ murder by strangulation.. would usually have been used. As to the burial... death certificate should tell you that... but if not at least the location that he died would help... Also as to the question would it have effected where he was buried.. i would think it would depend on his religion.. and if he had a family or if he was buried in a public grave. Hope this helps Sue.

Hi Max The Death Certificate should show where he was buried. It sounds as though it may have been accidental. My husband had a first cousin, a few time removed who was buried in the C of E section at Rookwood - cause of death was "wilfully inhaling coal gas" An Inquest was held.... of course. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Max Bancroft Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:15 PM To: AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] The final resting place of David Jones I would be interested in knowing the final resting place of David Jones who died 29 Nov 1872 in Sydney. I was told he died of self strangulation while intoxicated. If this was considered suicide, would this have a bearing as to where he was interred?

I would be interested in knowing the final resting place of David Jones who died 29 Nov 1872 in Sydney. I was told he died of self strangulation while intoxicated. If this was considered suicide, would this have a bearing as to where he was interred?

Hello Gerry, Yes, this is most certainly the list to ask about what happened to your convict interest. Perhaps if you give a little of what information you have on a convict, particularly (if known) name, dates & possibly what ship, someone among our knowledgeable listers may be able to point you in the right direction. And in case of any responses about appropriate subject lines perhaps we all need to reflect that we were all tyros at this mailing list game once. Kim List Admin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Newnham" <gerry@kiltie.net> To: "Aus-Convicts List" <AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 10:21 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Convicts > Hi List, > > I am new to this list and hope that someone might be able to help with a > query about two convicts. SNIP