this is from the colonial secretary correspondence. www.records.nsw.gov.au POPLIN, Robert. Of Sydney Eastside district 1802 Apr 10 Particulars of arms in possession of (Reel 6041; 4/1719 p.86) Leanne

The thing about book reviews is that they are only one persons opinion, and people all by themselves are discerning enough to decide whether a book has value or not. Jenny Fawcett ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Tattersall" <davidtattersall@westnet.com.au> To: "Aus Convicts" <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:30 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] New Book about the First Fleet > Before rushing out to spend $34.95 on David Hill's book 1788, The > Brutal Truth about the First Fleet, it would be advisable to read the > review of the book by Cassandra Pybus in The Australian Literary > Review of October 1st 2008. > > According to this review, you may find that the book contains banal > reductions, serious errors and that David Hill doesn't say anything > about the First Fleet that one couldn't find in numerous other > foundation accounts. > > William Heinemann is producing a flawed book only a couple of years > after publishing Tom Keneally's 'A Commonwealth of Thieves' and it is > suggested that Robert Hughes's 'The Fatal Shore' and Sian Rees's 'The > Floating Brothel' are informed by the best scholarship and push the > reader beyond what they may have learned at school. > > Best wishes, David W Tattersall. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello I am searching for information on a Robert Poplin who came to Australia on the convict ship the Royal admiral in 1792... any information would be greatly appreciated!! best regards michelle In a message dated 9/30/2008 4:15:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, aus-convicts-request@rootsweb.com writes: Today's Topics: 1. Re: John Jones (Elizabeth Roberts) 2. Re: FW: Convicts- Info on Newnhams to VDL (Sue Olsen) 3. The Convict ships (Kerri Ferguson) 4. Re: The Convict ships (Annette Cooke) 5. Re: The Convict ships (Jan Daly) 6. Re: The Convict ships (Kerri Ferguson) 7. Re: Isabella Mc/MacLymond/t (CandROverson) 8. Re: The Convict ships (Lesley Uebel) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:41:18 +1000 From: "Elizabeth Roberts" <earoberts@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] John Jones To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <80F4E77391BA49DB98AD96985EFBE824@core2duo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Louise, What a job trying to research a John Jones! There were 59 John Jones in the 1828 census. Re the children of the 1st fleet Edward Jones there is a John Jones, Born Colony aged 32 in the 1828 census who is a shipwright, married with children in Erskine Street Sydney, who is possibly the son of Edward Jones, 1st Fleet ; he is the only John Jones BC of an appropriate age in the Census that I could see. Also I would think it unlikely that the son of a first fleet Convict who had land at one stage, would end up a tenant farmer in 1842. Good Luck with your very difficult research. Regards Elizabeth Roberts 7. Edward JONES and Martha BEDDINGFIELD First Fleeters ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:02:45 +1000 From: "louise" <walburn@bigpond.com> Subject: [AUS-CON] Edward JONES and Martha BEDDINGFIELD First Fleeters Hi I am trying to find if anyone is researching this family as I am trying to see if there son John JONES is the same one as my John JONES who married Margaret HIGGINS? Still on my brickwall with John JONES and his wife Margaret HIGGINS. I am hoping that someone maybe able to steer me in the correct direction if I have mixed family information, as I have done in the past while trying to locate the correct John and Margaret JONES. Information I have to date John JONES and Margaret HIGGINS married 1842 Presbyterian in Parish: Denbie; Hunter District; Maitland; Morpeth; Paterson; Singleton. No details given for John or Margaret as to if free/convict ship of arrival. Their issue Mary JONES born 1844 in East Bulwarra and her father listed as a Tennant Farmer Parish: Black Creek, Bulwarra; Clifden; Hinton; Morpeth; Maitland; Hunter., Church of England Margaret JONES born 1845 Parish: Black Creek, Bulwarra; Clifden; Hinton; Morpeth; Maitland; Hunter., Church of England I have found that a Edward JONES of the First Fleet married a Martha BEDDINGFIELD in 1788 and that they had the following issue Sarah JONES born/bapt 1794 John JONES born/bapt 1796/1798 Edward JONES born/bapt 1799 This John I thought maybe my John JONES who marries Margaret HIGGINS, as I found the above John's brother and sister married in Maitland, in the years 1843 and 1836. Further investigation showed that Edward JONES First Fleet died in 1842 aged 80/82 years in Sydney; Martha having predeceased him in 1817 aged 53 years. Also, that from 1825 till his death in 1842, Edward worked as a baker in Sydney. His sons would of worked with him as they didn't begin to marry till John 1842 (If he is my John JONES) although their sister already married in 1836; which in those times I assume the daughter would be married off early especially as her mother was dead (1817), and the boys left to help their father. My Mary JONES states her father's occupation was that of a Baker when she marries George WALBURN, (who was a great grand son of First Fleeter James WALBOURN and Sophia LEWIS). Perhaps another clue as both great grandfathers were First Fleeters and families probably knew each other. Many thanks Louise ******** ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 01:33:35 +1000 From: "Sue Olsen" <sueolsensueolsen@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] FW: Convicts- Info on Newnhams to VDL To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4cdc4de90809300833s6d7ebce1u845fc0ce19bd6f04@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Meaning ordering the certificates the old fashioned way... knew about the indexes online... Sue. On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Wendy Lindsay <oziewoo@bigpond.net.au>wrote: > Sue said > > > Tassy unfortunately as with queensland you have to do it the old > fashioned > > way unless you have a local library which holds the indexes to Births > > deaths > > The Qld BDM's are now online at > http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/829.htm > > Wendy > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 06:33:47 +1000 From: "Kerri Ferguson" <kerriferguson@dodo.com.au> Subject: [AUS-CON] The Convict ships To: "AUS-CONVICTS" <AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000e01c9233b$da228db0$8e67a910$@com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone know much about the convict ships themselves? Were any of them owned by the Royal Navy or were they all privately owned by Shipping Companies? I have yet to find a reference to a Shipping company in researching the few ships I am interested in - wouldn't it have been noted on the arrival musters as a matter of course? And on from there - were the ships Master's Royal Nay men or private individuals? If there was a mix of Navy and Private ships does anyone know what the breakdown was? Kerri ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 07:22:25 +1000 From: "Annette Cooke" <kacooke@smartchat.net.au> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] The Convict ships To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <6998212AEAC8466E88973DD6D201B14B@Annettelaptop> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Kerry The definitive book on Convict ships is Bateson's, "The Convict Ships". If your local library does not have it, they should be able to get in on interlibrary loan for you. I think it is out of print. It will answer all your questions. Annette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson" <kerriferguson@dodo.com.au> To: "AUS-CONVICTS" <AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 6:33 AM Subject: [AUS-CON] The Convict ships > > Does anyone know much about the convict ships themselves? Were any of > them > owned by the Royal Navy or were they all privately owned by Shipping > Companies? I have yet to find a reference to a Shipping company in > researching the few ships I am interested in - wouldn't it have been noted > on the arrival musters as a matter of course? > > > > And on from there - were the ships Master's Royal Nay men or private > individuals? If there was a mix of Navy and Private ships does anyone > know > what the breakdown was? > > > > Kerri > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 07:23:55 +1000 From: "Jan Daly" <jdaly270@bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] The Convict ships To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000601c92342$d849f8f0$88ddead0$@net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kerri Try to get hold of a copy of the book by Charles Bateson titled "The Convict Ships 1787-1868." There may be a copy in your local library. Apart from a comprehensive list of the ships, masters, number of convicts etc there is a great deal of information on the ownership of various ships and the difficulties of "outsourcing" (to use a modern term) particularly in the Second Fleet. A lot of the ships were privately owned and contracted to take the convicts to Sydney and other ports. Regards Jan Daly Descendant of eight convicts. -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: 01 October 2008 06:34 To: AUS-CONVICTS Subject: [AUS-CON] The Convict ships Does anyone know much about the convict ships themselves? Were any of them owned by the Royal Navy or were they all privately owned by Shipping Companies? I have yet to find a reference to a Shipping company in researching the few ships I am interested in - wouldn't it have been noted on the arrival musters as a matter of course? And on from there - were the ships Master's Royal Nay men or private individuals? If there was a mix of Navy and Private ships does anyone know what the breakdown was? Kerri ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 08:01:19 +1000 From: "Kerri Ferguson" <kerriferguson@dodo.com.au> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] The Convict ships To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000001c92348$16e2a760$44a7f620$@com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks Listers. Yes, I did see a copy of that book years ago but I wasn't interested in the ships themselves at the time. You have jogged my memory and I am on the way back to the Library! Cheers,Kerri -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jan Daly Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2008 7:24 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] The Convict ships Kerri Try to get hold of a copy of the book by Charles Bateson titled "The Convict Ships 1787-1868." There may be a copy in your local library. Apart from a comprehensive list of the ships, masters, number of convicts etc there is a great deal of information on the ownership of various ships and the difficulties of "outsourcing" (to use a modern term) particularly in the Second Fleet. A lot of the ships were privately owned and contracted to take the convicts to Sydney and other ports. Regards Jan Daly Descendant of eight convicts. -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: 01 October 2008 06:34 To: AUS-CONVICTS Subject: [AUS-CON] The Convict ships Does anyone know much about the convict ships themselves? Were any of them owned by the Royal Navy or were they all privately owned by Shipping Companies? I have yet to find a reference to a Shipping company in researching the few ships I am interested in - wouldn't it have been noted on the arrival musters as a matter of course? And on from there - were the ships Master's Royal Nay men or private individuals? If there was a mix of Navy and Private ships does anyone know what the breakdown was? Kerri ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:56:30 +0100 From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Isabella Mc/MacLymond/t To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <9D64A9BF9ACE4112A26BBB2DC8AE365B@Chris> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Kim McLymont (and variations) is a Scottish surname. The IGI has 2 Isabellas born in Scotland between 1820 and 1830, both in 1823. They were Isabella McClyment baptised 8 April 1823 in Gairloch, Ross and Cromarty. She was the daughter of Anthony McClyment and Annabella Clark. Issbell McClymont baptised 14 December 1823 in Maybole, Ayr. She was the daughter of William McClymont and Mary Munn. Rhoda ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 09:14:39 +1000 From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] The Convict ships To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <OGEELKEHANIHLMOJNLCJCECJPKAA.ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all Whilst the book is an excellent reference book, given the meaning of *definitive* the book certainly is not that as it has not included about 100 ships that carried convicts to Port Jackson alone. Although you can probably obtain a much overpriced second hand copy, you can obtain the CD version, or as suggested, borrow it from your library. The Historical Records of Australia is an excellent resource. eg In/Out: Inwards Date: 4 August 1802 Name of Ship: Perseus Master John Davison Build British Tons 362 Guns 8 Men 38 Where / When Built Stockton When & Where Registered : London Owners: Reeve & Green >From Whence: London Where Bound: China General Cargo: 3 trunks of cotton, 2 chests slops, 15 kegs lead, 5 barrels pitch, 5 barrels tar, 2 boxes arrowroot, 1 chest tea, 2 casks shot, parcel of ribbons, 4 bags corks, 1 trunk stockings, 2 boxes hats, 4 cases butter, 240 gall. of rum, 200 gall. of wine, 300lbs coffee, 400 lbs sugar, 6 kegs tripe, 30 head of horned cattle, 4 sheep, 3 goats, 20 casks beef and pork, 1 box spy glasses. Another great reference is the Lloyds Register of ships at; http://www.reach.net/~sc001198/Lloyds.htm regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Annette Cooke Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:22 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] The Convict ships Hi Kerry The definitive book on Convict ships is Bateson's, "The Convict Ships". If your local library does not have it, they should be able to get in on interlibrary loan for you. I think it is out of print. It will answer all your questions. Annette ------------------------------ To contact the AUS-CONVICTS list administrator, send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the AUS-CONVICTS mailing list, send an email to AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of AUS-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 3, Issue 295 ******************************************** **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)

Before rushing out to spend $34.95 on David Hill's book 1788, The Brutal Truth about the First Fleet, it would be advisable to read the review of the book by Cassandra Pybus in The Australian Literary Review of October 1st 2008. According to this review, you may find that the book contains banal reductions, serious errors and that David Hill doesn't say anything about the First Fleet that one couldn't find in numerous other foundation accounts. William Heinemann is producing a flawed book only a couple of years after publishing Tom Keneally's 'A Commonwealth of Thieves' and it is suggested that Robert Hughes's 'The Fatal Shore' and Sian Rees's 'The Floating Brothel' are informed by the best scholarship and push the reader beyond what they may have learned at school. Best wishes, David W Tattersall.

Hi Julie, Many years ago I transcribed those leaving the colony between 1803 to 1811. There was a man (or different men with the same name) who was/were in and out of the colony between 1805 and 1811. In those days you had to advertise the fact that you were leaving (on a temporary eg Whaling or sealing trips, or a permanent basis) in the Sydney Gazette in order to settle debts etc. I won't comment on the answer Scott Brown gave you as it is virtually word for word from the book "The Second Fleet" by Michael Flynn when Michael researched all the people who came out as part of the 2nd Fleet. Michael also stated that this John Scott never returned from his voyage in 1795 - but this may not be true. It could be that Michael Flynn was aware of the John Scott who was in the colony from at least 1803 but could not identify him correctly and nor can I. When writing his journal John Scott may have approximated the years in the colony - just rounded them up or down to 35 years or was he referring to an approximate number of years in the colony minus the years away sailing. He does not appear in the Musters as he was probably not around when they were taken. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Julie Gough Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:48 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] seeking info: John Scott arrived 1806/7/8 died 1843 Dear Scott and Carol Many thanks for your help with identifying John Scott. I have a transcription of his journal where he states: "Friday Feb 12th 1841 [or could be 1842, years are slightly mixed up]: I have been in this country 35 years and have never experienced so much heat and dry weather, everything is parched for want of rain. Flies and other insects innumerable". so I do think he arrived in 1806 or 1807. His language/terminology and his skills seem naval or seaman in origin, and, by 1830 he was referred to as Old Scott, so may have been born c.1870.(?) Perhaps he is most likely to be (Thanks Scott): 4) John Scott, Convict arrived per the Duke of Portland in 1807 1) John Scott, Seaman arrived per an unidentified ship of the Second Fleet, left the colony on the Asia in 1795 [who perhaps returned to live in 1806/7]. I will look them up. Also wasn't there a John Scott on Norfolk Island? Thanks Carol also for this candidate below -who sounds very interesting but 1810 arrival sounds too late: Description: John Scott, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, July 1810 Sentence Details: Convicted at "The Agincourt" Court Martial for a term of life. Vessel: Indian (Ship) Date of Departure: July 1810 Place of Arrival: New South Wales Source: Australian Joint Copying Project Microfilm Roll 87, Class and Piece Number HO11/2, Page Number 23 (13) Creator: Great Britain. Home Office Publisher: State Library of Queensland Digital ID: ctr-087433 also - perhaps he wasn't a convict to start with but one of those historical anomaly 'swimmer' arrivals... Julie

hi Lesley Thanks very much for this update and references. I am finding it very fascinating and confusing to track this John Scott, I think John Scott himself does mean that in 1841 he had been out of UK 35 years, and this might mean in and out of different places across Australia, sealing etc since his original c.1807 arrival - I will slowly try to figure out if I can identify him as the Duke of Portland convict Scott, or not, and report back. all the best Julie ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 20:07:08 +1100 >From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com (on behalf of "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au>) >Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] seeking info: John Scott arrived 1806/7/8 died 1843 >To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> > >Hi Julie, > >Many years ago I transcribed those leaving the colony between 1803 to 1811. >There was a man (or different men with the same name) who was/were in and out of >the colony between 1805 and 1811. In those days you had to advertise the fact >that you were leaving (on a temporary eg Whaling or sealing trips, or a >permanent basis) in the Sydney Gazette in order to settle debts etc. > > >I won't comment on the answer Scott Brown gave you as it is virtually word for >word from the book "The Second Fleet" by Michael Flynn when Michael researched >all the people who came out as part of the 2nd Fleet. Michael also stated that >this John Scott never returned from his voyage in 1795 - but this may not be >true. It could be that Michael Flynn was aware of the John Scott who was in the >colony from at least 1803 but could not identify him correctly and nor can I. > > >When writing his journal John Scott may have approximated the years in the >colony - just rounded them up or down to 35 years or was he referring to an >approximate number of years in the colony minus the years away sailing. > > >He does not appear in the Musters as he was probably not around when they were >taken. > > >Regards > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com >[mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Julie Gough >Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:48 PM >To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] seeking info: John Scott arrived 1806/7/8 died >1843 > > >Dear Scott and Carol > >Many thanks for your help with identifying John Scott. > >I have a transcription of his journal where he states: > >"Friday Feb 12th 1841 [or could be 1842, years are slightly mixed up]: I have >been in this country 35 years and have never experienced so much heat and dry >weather, everything is parched for want of rain. Flies and other insects >innumerable". > >so I do think he arrived in 1806 or 1807. > >His language/terminology and his skills seem naval or seaman in origin, >and, >by 1830 he was referred to as Old Scott, so may have been born c.1870.(?) > >Perhaps he is most likely to be (Thanks Scott): > > 4) John Scott, Convict arrived per the Duke of Portland in 1807 > >1) John Scott, Seaman arrived per an unidentified ship of the Second Fleet, left > the colony on the Asia in 1795 [who perhaps returned to live in 1806/7]. > >I will look them up. > >Also wasn't there a John Scott on Norfolk Island? > >Thanks Carol also for this candidate below -who sounds very interesting but >1810 arrival sounds too late: > >Description: John Scott, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, July >1810 Sentence Details: Convicted at "The Agincourt" Court Martial for a term of >life. Vessel: Indian (Ship) Date of Departure: July 1810 >Place of Arrival: New South Wales >Source: Australian Joint Copying Project Microfilm Roll 87, Class and Piece >Number HO11/2, Page Number 23 (13) Creator: Great Britain. Home Office >Publisher: State Library of Queensland Digital ID: ctr-087433 > >also - perhaps he wasn't a convict to start with but one of those historical >anomaly 'swimmer' arrivals... > >Julie > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Scott Many thanks again for your help with identifying the John Scott who arrived 1806/7. This is great to find out more from you about the Norfolk Island John Scott - he sounds too old, arriving in 1790, marrying in 1794, to be the John Scott who drowned in 1843 even though he was called "Old Scott" from c.1830+ It seems that the John Scott, Convict arrived per the Duke of Portland in 1807 is more likely the candidate who fits the correct arrival year scenario, unless there are any other non convict/swimmer John Scotts arriving into Australia 1806-7. I will seek his movements/assignments etc . In the meantime, many thanks again Julie ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 09:20:23 +1100 >From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com (on behalf of Scott Brown <ozgenie@historyaustralia.org.au>) >Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] seeking info: John Scott arrived 1806/7/8 died 1843 >To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > >John Scott, seaman, who arrived on the Second Fleet in 1790 spent some time >on Norfolk Island > >Arrived as a seaman on one of the ships of the Second Fleet in 1790. He >left this ship and signed up as a crew member of the HMS Supply in October >1790. >John commenced a relationship with Ann White, convict per the Neptune 1790. >John and Ann's child, Elizabeth Ann Scott (born 24 July 1791 in Sydney) >died as an infant and was buried on 6 September 1791. >November 1791 - Discharged from the 'Supply' with permission to become a >settler. He then sailed for Norfolk Island on the 'Queen' along with Ann >WHITE. They married on Norfolk Island shortly after their arrival there. >June 1794 - John and Ann were described as a childless married couple. >Theirs was more than likely one of the marriages performed by the Reverend >Richard Johnson during his brief visit to Norfolk Island, for which no >records survive >John departed the colony on the Asia in 1795. >Ann White remained in the colony, had two later marriages, giving birth to >seven children. She went to Van Diemens Land in January 1813 on board the >Lady Nelson. She died at Evandale, VDL in December 1820 > >Scott > > >On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:47:55 +1000 (EST), Julie Gough ><julie.gough@jcu.edu.au> wrote: >> Dear Scott and Carol >> >> Many thanks for your help with identifying John Scott. >> >> I have a transcription of his journal where he states: >> >> "Friday Feb 12th 1841 [or could be 1842, years are slightly mixed up]: I >> have >> been in this country 35 years and have never experienced so much heat and >> dry >> weather, everything is parched for want of rain. Flies and other insects >> innumerable". >> >> so I do think he arrived in 1806 or 1807. >> >> His language/terminology and his skills seem naval or seaman in origin, >> and, >> by 1830 he was referred to as Old Scott, so may have been born c.1870.(?) >> >> Perhaps he is most likely to be (Thanks Scott): >> >> 4) John Scott, Convict arrived per the Duke of Portland in 1807 >> >> 1) John Scott, Seaman arrived per an unidentified ship of the Second >> Fleet, left >> the colony on the Asia in 1795 [who perhaps returned to live in 1806/7]. >> >> I will look them up. >> >> Also wasn't there a John Scott on Norfolk Island? >> >> Thanks Carol also for this candidate below -who sounds very interesting >> but >> 1810 arrival sounds too late: >> >> Description: John Scott, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, >> July >> 1810 Sentence Details: Convicted at "The Agincourt" Court Martial for a >> term of >> life. Vessel: Indian (Ship) Date of Departure: July 1810 >> Place of Arrival: New South Wales >> Source: Australian Joint Copying Project Microfilm Roll 87, Class and >> Piece >> Number HO11/2, Page Number 23 (13) Creator: Great Britain. Home Office >> Publisher: State Library of Queensland Digital ID: ctr-087433 >> >> also - perhaps he wasn't a convict to start with but one of those >> historical >> anomaly 'swimmer' arrivals... >> >> Julie >> >> ---- Original message ---- >>>Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:53:15 +1100 >>>From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com (on behalf of Scott Brown >> <ozgenie@historyaustralia.org.au>) >>>Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] seeking info: John Scott arrived 1807/8 died 1843 >>>To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com >>> >>> >>>I have identified the following John Scott's arriving in the colony pre >>>1810 >>>1) John Scott, Seaman per an unidentified ship of the Second Fleet, left >>>the colony on the Asia in 1795 >>>2) John Scott, copnvict per the Sugar Cane in 1793 >>>3) John Scott, Convict per the Minerva in 1800 (died 1806) >>>4) John Scott, Convict per the Duke of Portland in 1807 >>>5) John Scott, Convict per the Indian in 1810 >>>6) John Scott, Convict per the Rolla in 1803 >>> >>>Scott Brown >>> >>>On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:29:44 +1000, "Carol Wood" >> <nanawood@bigpond.com> >>>wrote: >>>> Hi Julie, >>>> >>>> I can't find any John Scott as a convict in the years 1807/8. The one >>>> below >>>> from the State Library of Qld website is the closest I can find. He >> was >>>> Court Martialled. Sorry I don't know much about the The Agincourt >> Court >>>> Martial except it was something that happened during the Napoleonic >> Wars >>>> off >>>> Gibralter and the captain of the ship (Cptn Williamson) was court >>>> martialled >>>> for failing to engage the enemy in a battle. If you Google it you >>>might >>>> find out more. >>>> >>>> Title: Scott, John >>>> >>>> Description: John Scott, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, >>>> July >>>> 1810 >>>> >>>> Sentence Details: Convicted at "The Agincourt" Court Martial for a term >>>of >>>> life. >>>> >>>> Vessel: Indian (Ship) >>>> >>>> Date of Departure: July 1810 >>>> >>>> Place of Arrival: New South Wales >>>> >>>> Subject(s): Convicts - Australia - Registers >>>> Australia - Genealogy >>>> >>>> Source: Australian Joint Copying Project Microfilm Roll 87, Class and >>>> Piece >>>> Number HO11/2, Page Number 23 (13) >>>> >>>> Creator: Great Britain. Home Office >>>> >>>> Publisher: State Library of Queensland >>>> >>>> Digital ID: ctr-087433 >>>> >>>> Carol Wood >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>>------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >the >> subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John Scott, seaman, who arrived on the Second Fleet in 1790 spent some time on Norfolk Island Arrived as a seaman on one of the ships of the Second Fleet in 1790. He left this ship and signed up as a crew member of the HMS Supply in October 1790. John commenced a relationship with Ann White, convict per the Neptune 1790. John and Ann's child, Elizabeth Ann Scott (born 24 July 1791 in Sydney) died as an infant and was buried on 6 September 1791. November 1791 - Discharged from the 'Supply' with permission to become a settler. He then sailed for Norfolk Island on the 'Queen' along with Ann WHITE. They married on Norfolk Island shortly after their arrival there. June 1794 - John and Ann were described as a childless married couple. Theirs was more than likely one of the marriages performed by the Reverend Richard Johnson during his brief visit to Norfolk Island, for which no records survive John departed the colony on the Asia in 1795. Ann White remained in the colony, had two later marriages, giving birth to seven children. She went to Van Diemens Land in January 1813 on board the Lady Nelson. She died at Evandale, VDL in December 1820 Scott On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:47:55 +1000 (EST), Julie Gough <julie.gough@jcu.edu.au> wrote: > Dear Scott and Carol > > Many thanks for your help with identifying John Scott. > > I have a transcription of his journal where he states: > > "Friday Feb 12th 1841 [or could be 1842, years are slightly mixed up]: I > have > been in this country 35 years and have never experienced so much heat and > dry > weather, everything is parched for want of rain. Flies and other insects > innumerable". > > so I do think he arrived in 1806 or 1807. > > His language/terminology and his skills seem naval or seaman in origin, > and, > by 1830 he was referred to as Old Scott, so may have been born c.1870.(?) > > Perhaps he is most likely to be (Thanks Scott): > > 4) John Scott, Convict arrived per the Duke of Portland in 1807 > > 1) John Scott, Seaman arrived per an unidentified ship of the Second > Fleet, left > the colony on the Asia in 1795 [who perhaps returned to live in 1806/7]. > > I will look them up. > > Also wasn't there a John Scott on Norfolk Island? > > Thanks Carol also for this candidate below -who sounds very interesting > but > 1810 arrival sounds too late: > > Description: John Scott, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, > July > 1810 Sentence Details: Convicted at "The Agincourt" Court Martial for a > term of > life. Vessel: Indian (Ship) Date of Departure: July 1810 > Place of Arrival: New South Wales > Source: Australian Joint Copying Project Microfilm Roll 87, Class and > Piece > Number HO11/2, Page Number 23 (13) Creator: Great Britain. Home Office > Publisher: State Library of Queensland Digital ID: ctr-087433 > > also - perhaps he wasn't a convict to start with but one of those > historical > anomaly 'swimmer' arrivals... > > Julie > > ---- Original message ---- >>Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:53:15 +1100 >>From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com (on behalf of Scott Brown > <ozgenie@historyaustralia.org.au>) >>Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] seeking info: John Scott arrived 1807/8 died 1843 >>To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com >> >> >>I have identified the following John Scott's arriving in the colony pre >>1810 >>1) John Scott, Seaman per an unidentified ship of the Second Fleet, left >>the colony on the Asia in 1795 >>2) John Scott, copnvict per the Sugar Cane in 1793 >>3) John Scott, Convict per the Minerva in 1800 (died 1806) >>4) John Scott, Convict per the Duke of Portland in 1807 >>5) John Scott, Convict per the Indian in 1810 >>6) John Scott, Convict per the Rolla in 1803 >> >>Scott Brown >> >>On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:29:44 +1000, "Carol Wood" > <nanawood@bigpond.com> >>wrote: >>> Hi Julie, >>> >>> I can't find any John Scott as a convict in the years 1807/8. The one >>> below >>> from the State Library of Qld website is the closest I can find. He > was >>> Court Martialled. Sorry I don't know much about the The Agincourt > Court >>> Martial except it was something that happened during the Napoleonic > Wars >>> off >>> Gibralter and the captain of the ship (Cptn Williamson) was court >>> martialled >>> for failing to engage the enemy in a battle. If you Google it you >>might >>> find out more. >>> >>> Title: Scott, John >>> >>> Description: John Scott, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, >>> July >>> 1810 >>> >>> Sentence Details: Convicted at "The Agincourt" Court Martial for a term >>of >>> life. >>> >>> Vessel: Indian (Ship) >>> >>> Date of Departure: July 1810 >>> >>> Place of Arrival: New South Wales >>> >>> Subject(s): Convicts - Australia - Registers >>> Australia - Genealogy >>> >>> Source: Australian Joint Copying Project Microfilm Roll 87, Class and >>> Piece >>> Number HO11/2, Page Number 23 (13) >>> >>> Creator: Great Britain. Home Office >>> >>> Publisher: State Library of Queensland >>> >>> Digital ID: ctr-087433 >>> >>> Carol Wood >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Scott and Carol Many thanks for your help with identifying John Scott. I have a transcription of his journal where he states: "Friday Feb 12th 1841 [or could be 1842, years are slightly mixed up]: I have been in this country 35 years and have never experienced so much heat and dry weather, everything is parched for want of rain. Flies and other insects innumerable". so I do think he arrived in 1806 or 1807. His language/terminology and his skills seem naval or seaman in origin, and, by 1830 he was referred to as Old Scott, so may have been born c.1870.(?) Perhaps he is most likely to be (Thanks Scott): 4) John Scott, Convict arrived per the Duke of Portland in 1807 1) John Scott, Seaman arrived per an unidentified ship of the Second Fleet, left the colony on the Asia in 1795 [who perhaps returned to live in 1806/7]. I will look them up. Also wasn't there a John Scott on Norfolk Island? Thanks Carol also for this candidate below -who sounds very interesting but 1810 arrival sounds too late: Description: John Scott, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, July 1810 Sentence Details: Convicted at "The Agincourt" Court Martial for a term of life. Vessel: Indian (Ship) Date of Departure: July 1810 Place of Arrival: New South Wales Source: Australian Joint Copying Project Microfilm Roll 87, Class and Piece Number HO11/2, Page Number 23 (13) Creator: Great Britain. Home Office Publisher: State Library of Queensland Digital ID: ctr-087433 also - perhaps he wasn't a convict to start with but one of those historical anomaly 'swimmer' arrivals... Julie ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:53:15 +1100 >From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com (on behalf of Scott Brown <ozgenie@historyaustralia.org.au>) >Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] seeking info: John Scott arrived 1807/8 died 1843 >To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > > >I have identified the following John Scott's arriving in the colony pre >1810 >1) John Scott, Seaman per an unidentified ship of the Second Fleet, left >the colony on the Asia in 1795 >2) John Scott, copnvict per the Sugar Cane in 1793 >3) John Scott, Convict per the Minerva in 1800 (died 1806) >4) John Scott, Convict per the Duke of Portland in 1807 >5) John Scott, Convict per the Indian in 1810 >6) John Scott, Convict per the Rolla in 1803 > >Scott Brown > >On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:29:44 +1000, "Carol Wood" <nanawood@bigpond.com> >wrote: >> Hi Julie, >> >> I can't find any John Scott as a convict in the years 1807/8. The one >> below >> from the State Library of Qld website is the closest I can find. He was >> Court Martialled. Sorry I don't know much about the The Agincourt Court >> Martial except it was something that happened during the Napoleonic Wars >> off >> Gibralter and the captain of the ship (Cptn Williamson) was court >> martialled >> for failing to engage the enemy in a battle. If you Google it you >might >> find out more. >> >> Title: Scott, John >> >> Description: John Scott, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, >> July >> 1810 >> >> Sentence Details: Convicted at "The Agincourt" Court Martial for a term >of >> life. >> >> Vessel: Indian (Ship) >> >> Date of Departure: July 1810 >> >> Place of Arrival: New South Wales >> >> Subject(s): Convicts - Australia - Registers >> Australia - Genealogy >> >> Source: Australian Joint Copying Project Microfilm Roll 87, Class and >> Piece >> Number HO11/2, Page Number 23 (13) >> >> Creator: Great Britain. Home Office >> >> Publisher: State Library of Queensland >> >> Digital ID: ctr-087433 >> >> Carol Wood >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have identified the following John Scott's arriving in the colony pre 1810 1) John Scott, Seaman per an unidentified ship of the Second Fleet, left the colony on the Asia in 1795 2) John Scott, copnvict per the Sugar Cane in 1793 3) John Scott, Convict per the Minerva in 1800 (died 1806) 4) John Scott, Convict per the Duke of Portland in 1807 5) John Scott, Convict per the Indian in 1810 6) John Scott, Convict per the Rolla in 1803 Scott Brown On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:29:44 +1000, "Carol Wood" <nanawood@bigpond.com> wrote: > Hi Julie, > > I can't find any John Scott as a convict in the years 1807/8. The one > below > from the State Library of Qld website is the closest I can find. He was > Court Martialled. Sorry I don't know much about the The Agincourt Court > Martial except it was something that happened during the Napoleonic Wars > off > Gibralter and the captain of the ship (Cptn Williamson) was court > martialled > for failing to engage the enemy in a battle. If you Google it you might > find out more. > > Title: Scott, John > > Description: John Scott, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, > July > 1810 > > Sentence Details: Convicted at "The Agincourt" Court Martial for a term of > life. > > Vessel: Indian (Ship) > > Date of Departure: July 1810 > > Place of Arrival: New South Wales > > Subject(s): Convicts - Australia - Registers > Australia - Genealogy > > Source: Australian Joint Copying Project Microfilm Roll 87, Class and > Piece > Number HO11/2, Page Number 23 (13) > > Creator: Great Britain. Home Office > > Publisher: State Library of Queensland > > Digital ID: ctr-087433 > > Carol Wood > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Julie, I can't find any John Scott as a convict in the years 1807/8. The one below from the State Library of Qld website is the closest I can find. He was Court Martialled. Sorry I don't know much about the The Agincourt Court Martial except it was something that happened during the Napoleonic Wars off Gibralter and the captain of the ship (Cptn Williamson) was court martialled for failing to engage the enemy in a battle. If you Google it you might find out more. Title: Scott, John Description: John Scott, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, July 1810 Sentence Details: Convicted at "The Agincourt" Court Martial for a term of life. Vessel: Indian (Ship) Date of Departure: July 1810 Place of Arrival: New South Wales Subject(s): Convicts - Australia - Registers Australia - Genealogy Source: Australian Joint Copying Project Microfilm Roll 87, Class and Piece Number HO11/2, Page Number 23 (13) Creator: Great Britain. Home Office Publisher: State Library of Queensland Digital ID: ctr-087433 Carol Wood

Hello listers, I am seeking to clarify origins/ship/arrival details and movements of John Scott/Scot who arrived c.1807 or 1808 (perhaps a convict) and died 1843. He was a sealer in Bass Strait and Westernport Bay by the mid 1820s, and also there from mid 1830s to 1843. Unsure of his occupation/location 1807-1824 & 1826-1836. Many thanks for any assistance/leads. Julie

I Agree Leslie with Your the Good master comments and the increasing regulation One of my convicts to W.A. received Wine with Lunch and had a bunk to himself, He was known to remark that generally he was feed better on the boat than at home despite poaching sheep for a living. He was among the last of the Convicts to arrive in W.A. on the "Clyde" The regulations changed and a Surgeon was mandatory on all convict ships from a early date. Some masters were prosecuted in England after report's from N.S.W. were sent to London (most got off the charges but were never provided with control of a ship to N.S.W. again) I some times get frustrated with all the negative remarks. Mary Clark ( various alias) on the "Britannica" who married ? George Clarke lived a life in N.S.W. that she could never have achieved in England. George himself arrived on the "Royal Admiral" 1792 was one of the body guards to Macquarie before he died in 1810 His son became a land holder and so did the infamous Mary. They all had law abiding offspring and good pioneers of our country. Some were not so industrious for sure and did not have much luck but they faced the same situation in England where unemployment was the order of the day and stealing was the only way to stay alive. Some like Icky Solomon went back wards on reaching N.S.W. Geoff -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2008 8:50 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships Hi Kerrie Ever heard about holidays - time off :) Let's say that a trip took 120 days from England to Port Jackson and then take into consideration the time taken to set the ship up to accept to convicts and also load items necessary for the voyage and the convicts in various ports etc...and then the return trip that often went by the East the load up on items to sell back in the UK, we are probably talking about the best part of a year - how many years could a Master keep that up? Yes, I agree that the characters of the various Masters (and Surgeons) of these transports were diverse - some were cruel and some were compassionate and many in-between. Over the years I have written up and shared many reports about the Masters of both kinds and they make for interesting reading. To the next part of your message - yes, the convicts did have restricted sleeping space sometimes hammocks and sometimes bunks - some trips were easier than others. Do you think that they didn't suffer the same space restrictions at home ? :) I wonder how many even had a bed to sleep in or had rations dished out at regular intervals! I think that most of our convicts knew well what could happen should they commit a crime (as they do these days). Some of these convicts, both males and females committed atrocious whilst others committed minor crimes but was not their first offence..... and some just unlucky and being tried by a Judge on a bad day - whatever! >From some of your message I feel that you may have been reading too >many books or articles on the internet as after a certain time, the transport of convicts was very regulated. No, they didn't have TV but they certainly had newspapers and 'word of mouth'. They didn't all put their heads down :) to create this wonderful country and you only have to do further reading to discover and many could not or would not be told what or when to do anything. Some of the first ships to arrive were horror ships and you will find much about them on the internet - a good example is the Neptune that arrived in 1790 but you don't generally hear about the good trips. Yes, I am very proud of my convict forebears (mine were very early convicts) but at the same time I don't condone their crimes. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:09 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships

Peter, It is one of two options, he either was sent New South Wales... where he reoffended (usually fairly minor) and he was sent to a secondary "more severe" settlement. or he travelled in the direct to Moreton Bay era from England (which is what I think this is) there is one way to know for sure and that is to check the Chronological Register of Convicts to Moreton bay which is at the John Oxley Library in Brisbane or the Queensland State Archives has a copy on film. (Im sure there are other records likely in New South Wales... but to ascertain the exact information the Chron register is brilliant.... however you will need to go and look at it.. it hasnt been indexed entirely yet... but we are working on it!! The reason it was assigned by the New South Wales court is that technically Queensland was part of New South Wales until 1859... he was likely still in Moreton Bay when it was issued... he had a strict condition though that he was to remain in Moreton Bay. maybe someone else will have further info.. but I know that chron register will have what you are chasing.. You can call or write to QSA if you are interstate and they will assist you in finding what you are looking for.. Regards Sue. On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Peter Strauss <pstrauss@aapt.net.au> wrote: > Hi Listers > > > > I have found listed on Ancestry in the 1837 Muster of convicts the name > James L LYNGSEY, arrived on the Mary Ann in 1835. > > I was looking for Thomas LYNCHEY who arrived on that voyage of the Mary > Ann. > > I have not found a LYNGSEY listed on the indent for the Mary Ann and given > the level of literacy and the accents perhaps this is really Thomas. > > In the remarks column of the indent it lists a number of tattoos and states > inter alia "...Brother James LYNCHEY" > > The Ancestry list does not show where this convict was assigned. When he > received his ToL this was granted by the Muswellbrook Bench and he was to > remain in the district of Moreton Bay. > > Is there any way of resolving this conundrum? > > Cheers > > Peter > > Melbourne > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Listers I have found listed on Ancestry in the 1837 Muster of convicts the name James L LYNGSEY, arrived on the Mary Ann in 1835. I was looking for Thomas LYNCHEY who arrived on that voyage of the Mary Ann. I have not found a LYNGSEY listed on the indent for the Mary Ann and given the level of literacy and the accents perhaps this is really Thomas. In the remarks column of the indent it lists a number of tattoos and states inter alia "...Brother James LYNCHEY" The Ancestry list does not show where this convict was assigned. When he received his ToL this was granted by the Muswellbrook Bench and he was to remain in the district of Moreton Bay. Is there any way of resolving this conundrum? Cheers Peter Melbourne

Hello List, I was listening to 702 ABC Sydney Radio this morning before 11:00 AM AEST and former boss of the ABC and other things in NSW, David HILL, has written a book about the First Fleet, called:- 1788, The Brutal Truth about the First Fleet. >From what I had heard , in the interview, it sounds like a great book for anyone who wants to know more about the first fleet. I also understand that it will be in the bookshops in about 2 weeks time, from by Book Shop Provider, in the Liverpool Area. Regards / Thanks, Steven L. CARR Proud decendant of Robert FORRESTER (1st Fleet) Nancy L. CARR (nee WILSON) Proud Decendant of William WILSON (Pt. Macquarie, 1822) Proud Members of the Liverpool Genealogy Society www.lgs.org.au Proud Memebers of the Dubbo & District Family History Society Inc http://www.dubbofamilyhistory.org.au/ CARR Clan Homepage http://members.optuszoo.com.au/stevenc123

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson" <kerriferguson@dodo.com.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships > Hi Lesley, > > I understand what you're saying about each ship having several > different > Masters in a lifetime but I wonder why a ship would have a > consistent Master > for several voyages and then suddenly have a change for one voyage > and then > revert to the original Master? I am one who believes "if something > doesn't > make sense, begin to start asking questions". > > You're kind to take an interest and I appreciate it. The Masters of > these > ships would have been as diverse in personality as were our > convicts. There > would have been the "kind" and the "cruel". Sometimes they could > have been > the difference in whether people arrived alive or not! Hi Kerrie Have you had chance to investigate the wealth of info to be discovered in http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/titles > advanced search > Sydney Gazette > type in name of a ship , its surgeon or captain plus an approx date and select search and see what pops out . Quite a lot of ship, surgeon and capt info in the Colonial Secretaries Correspondence indexes on line in State records web site I just typed in 'Adamant ' and narrowed the date 17 -20 Oct 1821 Its captain was charged by ships mate George FARRIS for hording convict rations to sell for a profit in Sydney . The Capt was charged but shot thru and dont think he ever returned to Sydney ( I already knew about this ) . In looking this up I happened to notice Solomon WISEMAN had been in trouble and got fined 50 shillings for leaving the harbour without port clearance . http://convictcentral.com/ is also a very interesting web site which you may have already come across Bye MargM Beautiful Wyong Shire NSW

Have you seen any of Lucille H Campey's books about immigration to Canada from Scotland. She provides a very good description of the ships of the time as well as showing how the regulations and conditions improved over the 19th century. She is of course writing about the Atlantic trade but nevertheless it seems reasonable to me that the regulations and conditions would apply to all British ships She also makes the point that the "horror" ships are remembered much better than the others. See for example "Fast Sailing and Copper Bottomed" I presume you have also seen Ian Nicholson's three volume Log of Logs. HTH Peter Ferguson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Ferguson" <kerriferguson@dodo.com.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships > Hi Lesley, > > I understand what you're saying about each ship having several different > Masters in a lifetime but I wonder why a ship would have a consistent > Master > for several voyages and then suddenly have a change for one voyage and > then > revert to the original Master? I am one who believes "if something doesn't > make sense, begin to start asking questions". > > You're kind to take an interest and I appreciate it. The Masters of these > ships would have been as diverse in personality as were our convicts. > There > would have been the "kind" and the "cruel". Sometimes they could have > been > the difference in whether people arrived alive or not! They are such an > important part of the story don't you think? > > The voyage out interests me greatly. These poor people. In some instances > 6 or 7 people confined to a space about the size of a regular modern day > double bed mattress. How did they do it!!!! The lack of hygiene must > have > been intolerable and don't forget the added problems for female convicts. > They never knew what would be their fate. (There was no TV, no newspapers > to tell them about this place called Australia.) They just floated along > into an abyss - not knowing what to expect. I believe they were > incredible > people. Such resilience!!!! Some of the pathetic ships were poor excuses > at best for any reasonable form of conveyance - and yet > .................... > despite the months, storms, inhumane conditions, they arrived! And they > put > their heads down and built this wonderful country. We have such a rich > heritage! > > I have become interested in all the players - the convicts are only one > part > - the ships Masters, surgeons etc, all played a major part in the story. > > We are so fortunate to have such a rich heritage. > > Kerri > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel > Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2008 6:43 PM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships > > > Hi Kerri > > The thing is that ships often had more than one Master over the life of a > ship > and also that there were many ships named the same. I also do not think > that > the > web site I posted is complete - I can guarantee that it isn't. > > Regards > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 5:31 PM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AUS-CON] Convict ships > > > > > Interesting Lesley, that Lloyds site you provided gives the name of the > Master of one of the ships I am researching during that period as > different > to what I have in my records and as appears on other convict sites. Now > another mystery to solve........ > > > > Kerri > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Lesley, I was going to answer your message in detail but have decided against it. As I worked for the Government for years in the area involving early Australian history and research, I have more than a superficial interest in the subject. Your "feeling" that I may have been reading too many books or articles on the internet is just a little insulting from my perspective. As for the Internet, I do not use it for that purpose. As for books and articles - I was not aware that anyone could ever read too much!!!!!!! I confess to being an avid reader - and even of papers and documents not available to the general public. I have found that family letters hold the key to "truth" much of the time. Suffering space restrictions at home is hardly pertinent is it? Firstly, many did not suffer those space restrictions at home but it is a mute point. I think many would rather have suffered space restrictions in familiar territory than on a fragile craft (and many were!) in the middle of the ocean with no way of escape in case of an emergency. I know which I'd choose! Word of mouth was not something all had experienced. Some, according to letters I have read didn't have a clue what was happening to them or what to expect in this place "beyond the seas". The first reports were mixed and not all generous in praise of this country. Having read some of the things I have, I would have been terrified to have been sent here if that's all the information I had.! Some DID put their heads down and make the best of it. Others did not. I am not so naive as to believe that there is not good and bad in every bunch. I have no argument with most of what you said but fail to see how you could assume that I didn't already realise that all of what you said was the case. Frankly I wouldn't care how much someone expected to be punished if they committed a crime, the conditions some had to deal with were simply inhumane by any civilised standards. And yes, I have heard about "holidays' and "time off" but not usually when speaking of the personnel that manned these ships years ago. For the record, I have never subscribed to the "loaf of bread" or "only stole a handkerchief" myth but, notwithstanding, there was certainly a huge amount of convicts who would never have served the time they eventually did if they served their time at "home". Even 7 years was a "life" sentence in most cases. And I would vehemently disagree that people these days know they could expect to be punished if they commit a crime! Not where I live! "Whatever" seems just a little lacking in compassion for my part. I would like to retain my compassion for the majority of them - "whatever" seems very harsh when they were after all, human beings. If I had been in the position of my forebears I would hate to think someone commented 200 years down the track ....."whatever". Anyway, I will say no more about it. And perhaps in future keep my thoughts to myself. I have never chosen to be "biased" in my reading material and surprised that anyone would "assume" I had been. If the convicts were such a miserable lot they sure produced some terrific descendants!!!! Hardly any of us can claim NOT to have one in our past. I apologise for my previous comments about the inhumane treatment of some of our early settlers. As I said, I will keep my comments to myself and put my head down into another book. Kerri -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2008 8:50 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships Hi Kerrie Ever heard about holidays - time off :) Let's say that a trip took 120 days from England to Port Jackson and then take into consideration the time taken to set the ship up to accept to convicts and also load items necessary for the voyage and the convicts in various ports etc...and then the return trip that often went by the East the load up on items to sell back in the UK, we are probably talking about the best part of a year - how many years could a Master keep that up? Yes, I agree that the characters of the various Masters (and Surgeons) of these transports were diverse - some were cruel and some were compassionate and many in-between. Over the years I have written up and shared many reports about the Masters of both kinds and they make for interesting reading. To the next part of your message - yes, the convicts did have restricted sleeping space sometimes hammocks and sometimes bunks - some trips were easier than others. Do you think that they didn't suffer the same space restrictions at home ? :) I wonder how many even had a bed to sleep in or had rations dished out at regular intervals! I think that most of our convicts knew well what could happen should they commit a crime (as they do these days). Some of these convicts, both males and females committed atrocious whilst others committed minor crimes but was not their first offence..... and some just unlucky and being tried by a Judge on a bad day - whatever! >From some of your message I feel that you may have been reading too many books or articles on the internet as after a certain time, the transport of convicts was very regulated. No, they didn't have TV but they certainly had newspapers and 'word of mouth'. They didn't all put their heads down :) to create this wonderful country and you only have to do further reading to discover and many could not or would not be told what or when to do anything. Some of the first ships to arrive were horror ships and you will find much about them on the internet - a good example is the Neptune that arrived in 1790 but you don't generally hear about the good trips. Yes, I am very proud of my convict forebears (mine were very early convicts) but at the same time I don't condone their crimes. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:09 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships Hi Lesley, I understand what you're saying about each ship having several different Masters in a lifetime but I wonder why a ship would have a consistent Master for several voyages and then suddenly have a change for one voyage and then revert to the original Master? I am one who believes "if something doesn't make sense, begin to start asking questions". You're kind to take an interest and I appreciate it. The Masters of these ships would have been as diverse in personality as were our convicts. There would have been the "kind" and the "cruel". Sometimes they could have been the difference in whether people arrived alive or not! They are such an important part of the story don't you think? The voyage out interests me greatly. These poor people. In some instances 6 or 7 people confined to a space about the size of a regular modern day double bed mattress. How did they do it!!!! The lack of hygiene must have been intolerable and don't forget the added problems for female convicts. They never knew what would be their fate. (There was no TV, no newspapers to tell them about this place called Australia.) They just floated along into an abyss - not knowing what to expect. I believe they were incredible people. Such resilience!!!! Some of the pathetic ships were poor excuses at best for any reasonable form of conveyance - and yet .................... despite the months, storms, inhumane conditions, they arrived! And they put their heads down and built this wonderful country. We have such a rich heritage! I have become interested in all the players - the convicts are only one part - the ships Masters, surgeons etc, all played a major part in the story. We are so fortunate to have such a rich heritage. Kerri ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kerrie Ever heard about holidays - time off :) Let's say that a trip took 120 days from England to Port Jackson and then take into consideration the time taken to set the ship up to accept to convicts and also load items necessary for the voyage and the convicts in various ports etc...and then the return trip that often went by the East the load up on items to sell back in the UK, we are probably talking about the best part of a year - how many years could a Master keep that up? Yes, I agree that the characters of the various Masters (and Surgeons) of these transports were diverse - some were cruel and some were compassionate and many in-between. Over the years I have written up and shared many reports about the Masters of both kinds and they make for interesting reading. To the next part of your message - yes, the convicts did have restricted sleeping space sometimes hammocks and sometimes bunks - some trips were easier than others. Do you think that they didn't suffer the same space restrictions at home ? :) I wonder how many even had a bed to sleep in or had rations dished out at regular intervals! I think that most of our convicts knew well what could happen should they commit a crime (as they do these days). Some of these convicts, both males and females committed atrocious whilst others committed minor crimes but was not their first offence..... and some just unlucky and being tried by a Judge on a bad day - whatever! >From some of your message I feel that you may have been reading too many books or articles on the internet as after a certain time, the transport of convicts was very regulated. No, they didn't have TV but they certainly had newspapers and 'word of mouth'. They didn't all put their heads down :) to create this wonderful country and you only have to do further reading to discover and many could not or would not be told what or when to do anything. Some of the first ships to arrive were horror ships and you will find much about them on the internet - a good example is the Neptune that arrived in 1790 but you don't generally hear about the good trips. Yes, I am very proud of my convict forebears (mine were very early convicts) but at the same time I don't condone their crimes. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kerri Ferguson Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:09 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Convict ships Hi Lesley, I understand what you're saying about each ship having several different Masters in a lifetime but I wonder why a ship would have a consistent Master for several voyages and then suddenly have a change for one voyage and then revert to the original Master? I am one who believes "if something doesn't make sense, begin to start asking questions". You're kind to take an interest and I appreciate it. The Masters of these ships would have been as diverse in personality as were our convicts. There would have been the "kind" and the "cruel". Sometimes they could have been the difference in whether people arrived alive or not! They are such an important part of the story don't you think? The voyage out interests me greatly. These poor people. In some instances 6 or 7 people confined to a space about the size of a regular modern day double bed mattress. How did they do it!!!! The lack of hygiene must have been intolerable and don't forget the added problems for female convicts. They never knew what would be their fate. (There was no TV, no newspapers to tell them about this place called Australia.) They just floated along into an abyss - not knowing what to expect. I believe they were incredible people. Such resilience!!!! Some of the pathetic ships were poor excuses at best for any reasonable form of conveyance - and yet .................... despite the months, storms, inhumane conditions, they arrived! And they put their heads down and built this wonderful country. We have such a rich heritage! I have become interested in all the players - the convicts are only one part - the ships Masters, surgeons etc, all played a major part in the story. We are so fortunate to have such a rich heritage. Kerri