The following is a brief list of some prisoners sent to the Sydney gaol 1838......feel free to email for information (the names were on list acquired recently during some research). Usual information is gaol no, name, ship and year of arrival, height, make, complexion, hair colour, eye colour etc. Name Ship and Year of Arrival Mary McAvoy Wellington 1832 John Upton Lady Nugent 1834 Henry Costelow Anne and Amelia, 1825 James Aldridge Layton 1838 Michael Doyle Lord Lyndoch 1833 George Wheeler Moffatt 1836 Felix McClinty/McCarty? Martha 1818 Mary Lowe? or Fair L. Sydmouth 1823 John Osborne John 1829 John Gibbs John Barry 1 1819 thomas Green Norfolk 1835 Ann Roach Dutchess 1835 Mary Griffith Palambam 1831 John Williams Orentes? 1838 Joseph Smith Nithsdale 1830 John Moran James Pattison 1830 Patrick Condon Prince Revent 1821 cheers Jenny Fawcett

hi try going to multimap .com andvtype your details cheers paddy -----Original Message----- From: KRudd <krudd52@optusnet.com.au> To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Sent: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 8:45 Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Taylorstown Antrim Northern Ireland Try typing 'Taylorstown, Antrim' into google maps http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&tab=wl -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dawn bird Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2008 4:30 PM To: antrim@irishgenealogy.net; aus-convicts@rootsweb.com; info@findmypast.com; info@ballymoneyancestry.com; Irish-Australians@yahoogroups.com.au; aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] Taylorstown Antrim Northern Ireland Hi hoping everyone had a fantastic Christmas and all the best for 2009. My question is does anyone have a map which shows the town of Taylorstown, Antrim? My cousin sent me photos of the Presbyterian church there on Grange Road but no map and I can not find it on any map and still trying to get in touch with my cousin. Any help greatly appreciated. I am still looking for any inforamtion on Gault, Boyle- Ireland and Gault - America Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.

Try typing 'Taylorstown, Antrim' into google maps http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&tab=wl -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dawn bird Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2008 4:30 PM To: antrim@irishgenealogy.net; aus-convicts@rootsweb.com; info@findmypast.com; info@ballymoneyancestry.com; Irish-Australians@yahoogroups.com.au; aus-immigration-ships@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] Taylorstown Antrim Northern Ireland Hi hoping everyone had a fantastic Christmas and all the best for 2009. My question is does anyone have a map which shows the town of Taylorstown, Antrim? My cousin sent me photos of the Presbyterian church there on Grange Road but no map and I can not find it on any map and still trying to get in touch with my cousin. Any help greatly appreciated. I am still looking for any inforamtion on Gault, Boyle- Ireland and Gault - America Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi hoping everyone had a fantastic Christmas and all the best for 2009. My question is does anyone have a map which shows the town of Taylorstown, Antrim? My cousin sent me photos of the Presbyterian church there on Grange Road but no map and I can not find it on any map and still trying to get in touch with my cousin. Any help greatly appreciated. I am still looking for any inforamtion on Gault, Boyle-  Ireland and Gault - America Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox

Hi Phil Selina Tucker married Robert Winter in 1853 in Victoria.... not 1840 Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil West Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:05 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS another twist I have eventually got together some of my 22 year old notes on Winters and here is a summary: . Robert b 1790, Yorks AA Fortune 1813 (sentenced life) m (1) Sarah Barns 4711/1 AA Mary Ann 1791 (2) Mary Herd (Hard) 2817/3 AA Morley 1820. . Robert and Sarah had Robert Winter (2) b 22 Mar 1816 Sydney m Selina Tucker 1840 in Melbourne. . They in turn had Robert (3) b 1840 Melbourne who m Caroline Bates AA Beejapore 1857. Robert (3) in 1858 was a publican in Beechworth. By the way, how would the Bates, with 8 kids, afford the trip to Australia? . Ada May's birth certificate (B273999 records 3 boys living and 1 female child deceased as of 20 Jun 1881 in Temora) Ada May has a brother Robert James and there is at least a Robert (5) in the next generation. The Birth Certificate has Caroline as the informant and she is 33 with Robert (husband) 41. Does this make sense? I'm not talking about naming all these people Robert. Phil

I have eventually got together some of my 22 year old notes on Winters and here is a summary: . Robert b 1790, Yorks AA Fortune 1813 (sentenced life) m (1) Sarah Barns 4711/1 AA Mary Ann 1791 (2) Mary Herd (Hard) 2817/3 AA Morley 1820. . Robert and Sarah had Robert Winter (2) b 22 Mar 1816 Sydney m Selina Tucker 1840 in Melbourne. . They in turn had Robert (3) b 1840 Melbourne who m Caroline Bates AA Beejapore 1857. Robert (3) in 1858 was a publican in Beechworth. By the way, how would the Bates, with 8 kids, afford the trip to Australia? . Ada May's birth certificate (B273999 records 3 boys living and 1 female child deceased as of 20 Jun 1881 in Temora) Ada May has a brother Robert James and there is at least a Robert (5) in the next generation. The Birth Certificate has Caroline as the informant and she is 33 with Robert (husband) 41. Does this make sense? I'm not talking about naming all these people Robert. Phil -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil West Sent: Friday, 19 December 2008 8:02 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Lesley Many thanks. Dad's father was Bertram Cecil Edward West and his mother Ada. More research Phil -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Friday, 19 December 2008 9:37 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Hi Phil I did search through the Vital Records CD for a registration in any state around 1839 - perhaps he was not registered. I did check under Winters, Winter, Wynter and Wynters. I did find an interesting article in the Northern Territory Times and Gazette of 25 September 1913 - the date of death is the same year but a different month. I am certain it was him as Ada married Bertram West. ""Family Notices DEATH. WINTERS-On the 18th September. 1913. at the residence of his daughter, Mrs Ada West, 85 King Street. Newtown, Sydney, N.S.W., Robert, the dearly beloved father of R. J. Winters, of Darwin, in his 74th year."" By the look of it his son Robert James Winters was living in the NT at that time. I think I would check the birth certificates of one or more of this other children as they may provide more information.... or may not! His marriage and birth certificates are essential Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil West Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:23 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Lesley My Grandmother was Ada May Winters born 1881 in Temora NSW to Robert Winters and Caroline (nee Bates b 1848, Bethnalgreen, London) who arrived on the Beejapore in 14 May 1857, I believe in Sydney. Caroline recorded Ada May's birth and states Robert (no middle name) was born in Melbourne in 1839 and he died in Sydney 18 Jan 1913. Robert was a gold miner and they were apparently married in Beechworth, Victoria. That, and a photo and a family myth he came from Ireland, is all I've got. Any suggestions would be appreciated after two seemingly wrong tracks. Phil ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lesley Many thanks. Dad's father was Bertram Cecil Edward West and his mother Ada. More research Phil -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Friday, 19 December 2008 9:37 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Hi Phil I did search through the Vital Records CD for a registration in any state around 1839 - perhaps he was not registered. I did check under Winters, Winter, Wynter and Wynters. I did find an interesting article in the Northern Territory Times and Gazette of 25 September 1913 - the date of death is the same year but a different month. I am certain it was him as Ada married Bertram West. ""Family Notices DEATH. WINTERS-On the 18th September. 1913. at the residence of his daughter, Mrs Ada West, 85 King Street. Newtown, Sydney, N.S.W., Robert, the dearly beloved father of R. J. Winters, of Darwin, in his 74th year."" By the look of it his son Robert James Winters was living in the NT at that time. I think I would check the birth certificates of one or more of this other children as they may provide more information.... or may not! His marriage and birth certificates are essential Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil West Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:23 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Lesley My Grandmother was Ada May Winters born 1881 in Temora NSW to Robert Winters and Caroline (nee Bates b 1848, Bethnalgreen, London) who arrived on the Beejapore in 14 May 1857, I believe in Sydney. Caroline recorded Ada May's birth and states Robert (no middle name) was born in Melbourne in 1839 and he died in Sydney 18 Jan 1913. Robert was a gold miner and they were apparently married in Beechworth, Victoria. That, and a photo and a family myth he came from Ireland, is all I've got. Any suggestions would be appreciated after two seemingly wrong tracks. Phil ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi The rego numcer for the 1913 death in NSW is 10440/1913 purchasble on line at: www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?form=IndexingSearch&SessionID good luck Robyn in Wodonga ----- Original Message ----- From: "John SBC" <doddssanford@sbcglobal.net> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:23 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS > Hi Phil, > You might try the website http://www.historyaustralia.org.au/, built by > Scott Brown, who just happens to be a professional genealogist in > Melbourne. > He is/was available at ozgenie@historyaustralia.org.au. > I have not looked at his site in a while so not sure if it will help with > Robert Winters or not. BUT Scott may be able to help with Melbourne > history. > He contributes here on occasion. > > Not sure how much other research you have done, but if you have NOT gotten > copies of birth death & marriage certificates from Vic/NSW Authorities, I > would suggest that you do so. Since 1856, those finicky bureaucrats > insisted > on tons of neat info like parents names, ages, occupations, birthplaces, > sometimes arrival ships, & years in Colony etc. Most of that info does NOT > get into computerized records. > I would go after Robert and Caroline's marriage Certificate, (It is > actually in NSW (home of the bride??) it is Record No 1871-1305) > and also Robert's NSW death Certificate. (I don't have a CD that can get > that number since my records stop in 1905- BUT many local libraries in > Aust > have the Aust Vital Records Index available. It is searchable for BDMs > for > all the available old pioneers), > and also ADA MARY (not May) WINTERS birth which is record No 1881-16349). > I could not find any Robt Winters related records in Victoria. > > A word of warning NOT ALL RECORDS ARE IN THERE. I have a GGGrandfather who > we know was born in 1861 (father took care of sheep) in Sale Victoria, & > his > birth is not recorded, but his marriage certificate says he was born > there.. > Also the 1828 Census, does not record any of my Dodds family, although, we > know that GGGGrandfather James Dodds in 1825 married wife Mary (1815 born > free daughter of my only two convicts!!) & son James III (b.1826), were > all > on their land grant property in Singleton/Hunter river then. > Lesley is right about the 1820's free settlers. My James Dodds and his > brother arrived in Sydney from Scotland in 1822, & Robyn is right about > how > difficult it is to track early soldiers & free settlers. You may have a > tough time tracking Robert, BUT if you establish that his parents were two > of the first settlers in Melbourne, it might be just as good as having > convicts. > > > I appreciate the Tennant Creek weather report. Sorry I can't send some of > my > rain. We need it too. Having seen a sunset over Uluru, I understand what > you > are going through. but 43!! World record is 57+ (Algeria 1922, & Death > Valley California in 1913 -a few hundred miles from me in SF), you still > have a way to go. > > Happy hunting. > John > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandra & Phil West" <sandrawest@bigpond.com> > To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:23 AM > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS > > >> Lesley >> >> My Grandmother was Ada May Winters born 1881 in Temora NSW to Robert >> Winters >> and Caroline (nee Bates b 1848, Bethnalgreen, London) who arrived on the >> Beejapore in 14 May 1857, I believe in Sydney. Caroline recorded Ada >> May's >> birth and states Robert (no middle name) was born in Melbourne in 1839 >> and >> he died in Sydney 18 Jan 1913. Robert was a gold miner and they were >> apparently married in Beechworth, Victoria. >> >> That, and a photo and a family myth he came from Ireland, is all I've >> got. >> >> Any suggestions would be appreciated after two seemingly wrong tracks. >> >> Phil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel >> Sent: Tuesday, 16 December 2008 8:03 PM >> To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS >> >> Phil, >> >> >> There were a lot of free settlers who arrived in the late 1820's and >> after >> that. >> You have not provided sufficient information to be able to assist. >> >> I cannot find a child born named Robert Winter (Winters, Wynter, Wynter) >> to >> anyone in the records in that time frame. >> >> regards >> >> Lesley Uebel >> mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au >> CLAIM A CONVICT >> http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil >> West >> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:32 PM >> To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS >> >> >> Lesley >> >> If a child was born in Melbourne in 1839-41, what chance would they being >> born of free non-convict parents? >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Phil I did search through the Vital Records CD for a registration in any state around 1839 - perhaps he was not registered. I did check under Winters, Winter, Wynter and Wynters. I did find an interesting article in the Northern Territory Times and Gazette of 25 September 1913 - the date of death is the same year but a different month. I am certain it was him as Ada married Bertram West. ""Family Notices DEATH. WINTERS-On the 18th September. 1913. at the residence of his daughter, Mrs Ada West, 85 King Street. Newtown, Sydney, N.S.W., Robert, the dearly beloved father of R. J. Winters, of Darwin, in his 74th year."" By the look of it his son Robert James Winters was living in the NT at that time. I think I would check the birth certificates of one or more of this other children as they may provide more information.... or may not! His marriage and birth certificates are essential Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil West Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:23 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Lesley My Grandmother was Ada May Winters born 1881 in Temora NSW to Robert Winters and Caroline (nee Bates b 1848, Bethnalgreen, London) who arrived on the Beejapore in 14 May 1857, I believe in Sydney. Caroline recorded Ada May's birth and states Robert (no middle name) was born in Melbourne in 1839 and he died in Sydney 18 Jan 1913. Robert was a gold miner and they were apparently married in Beechworth, Victoria. That, and a photo and a family myth he came from Ireland, is all I've got. Any suggestions would be appreciated after two seemingly wrong tracks. Phil

Linda, In reference to Staffordshire, our Brettell ancestors came from there and we have found lots of information on their local site, have you tried them? If not Dudley Web Pages may be better one to try. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Leseberg" <lindaleseberg@hotmail.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Stafford Quarter Session Records > > Hi List, > > Daniel Baker was one of 190 convicts transported on the ship Asia, 03 > September 1820 to Australia. He was convicted at Stafford Quarter Session > for a term of 7 years on 12 Jan 1820. I would like to get a copy of any > trial information that exists; can anyone point me in the right direction? > > Cheers > Linda, Bathurst Australia >

Lesley My Grandmother was Ada May Winters born 1881 in Temora NSW to Robert Winters and Caroline (nee Bates b 1848, Bethnalgreen, London) who arrived on the Beejapore in 14 May 1857, I believe in Sydney. Caroline recorded Ada May's birth and states Robert (no middle name) was born in Melbourne in 1839 and he died in Sydney 18 Jan 1913. Robert was a gold miner and they were apparently married in Beechworth, Victoria. That, and a photo and a family myth he came from Ireland, is all I've got. Any suggestions would be appreciated after two seemingly wrong tracks. Phil -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Tuesday, 16 December 2008 8:03 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Phil, There were a lot of free settlers who arrived in the late 1820's and after that. You have not provided sufficient information to be able to assist. I cannot find a child born named Robert Winter (Winters, Wynter, Wynter) to anyone in the records in that time frame. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil West Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:32 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Lesley If a child was born in Melbourne in 1839-41, what chance would they being born of free non-convict parents? Phil ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lesley Just when I was getting my aunt comfortable about a convict ancestor. Do you know any researchers who can assist with early Melbourne births? Phil in Tennant Creek where it is decidedly warm and dry -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil West Sent: Tuesday, 16 December 2008 7:02 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Lesley If a child was born in Melbourne in 1839-41, what chance would they being born of free non-convict parents? Phil -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2008 3:41 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Hi Phil Perhaps it was not Robert Winter per "Fortune" and Mary Hurd/Herd, etc alias Davies per "Morley". A few years after their marriage in 1821, Robert was up in Moreton Bay and Mary in the Factory. Robert obtained a Ticket of Leave in 1839 and I am pretty certain it for the Maitland area (NSW). It was not until 1844 that Robert obtained his Conditional Pardon. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil West Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:42 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Hi all Has anybody any information on Robert WINTERS who apparently arrived 1813 and later married Mary HERD. If this is the correct person, he had a son Robert born Melbourne 1839. Phil West Tennant Creek - ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Robyn I am following John's suggested links and it's not easy to get back to Robert's parents. Do you know of any researchers who can assist as I am in Tennant Creek and research data here is thin on the ground. By the way, several years ago I was doing research at University of Canberra and there were two lecturers in adjoin offices named Drs Gross and Klein. Neither spoke any German and did not get the significance of large and small until I told them of the coincidence. Phil in very warm and dry Tennant Creek - 43 C. -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Robyn Gross Sent: Thursday, 18 December 2008 7:31 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS JOhn, I have to agree that the numbers would be few but In my researach I have found a married couple who emigrated in 1842 to Port Phillip, and another batchelor who came from Scotland in 1840 married a settlers daughter in 1842.. Two early lines have convict connections and other early lines are descended from soldiers who accompanied the convicts and stayed. Thes are particularly hard to research and document and seem to be a field in which little extensive research has been published. So just looking at my own tree in which I have tracked the arrival of all my ancestors of the pre 1850 arrivals, two were descended from soldiers, two had convict fathers, 8 individuals were free settlers. This would indicate 30% convict background for my family tree. Accurate statistics would be impossible to acertain. regards Robyn in warm and wet Wodonga ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John As you are kindly directing me to an early Australian website, I am reading Bill Bryson's "Made in America" on language shifts as the USA developed. I will follow up your suggestions though I must admit I was getting quite comfortable about having a convict in the family. Phil in Tennant Creek, 500km N Of Alice Springs, Northern Territory, Chris Sparling [c.sparling@sky.com] and it was 43 degrees Celsius today and we need rain -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John SBC Sent: Wednesday, 17 December 2008 2:14 AM To: AUS-Convicts Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS Phil A very very VERY approximate answer is that in 1840 1 in 2 would have non convict parents in the entire Country. See previous posting on Convict Numbers- 10/2008 In 1840 the (non native) population in NSW (Qld-1859 & Vic-1851 did not exist as separate states at this time) was on the order of 200,000. At this time the number of convicts total transported in the previous 52 years was about 110,000. Many would have died & or also had children. (who were classified as born free.) Note that in 1839, 1 yr earlier, the population was ~175,000, In late 1835 (when Melbourne was founded) only 113,000 in the Country. In 1831 (pop over 75000) NSW began assisted immigration. It was filling up fast. so an accurate number would be hard to come by. If you could find an early History of Melbourne settlers, (Founders Batman & Fawkner separately came from Launceston TAS.- Google "History Melbourne Aust") you might be able to get a better estimate, but differentiating between free settlers and freed convicts (some of whom became servants or farm/sheep workers) would be hard. Given that Melbourne was a free pastoral settlement, as opposed to Sydney, or Hobart, the chances are no doubt higher that an 1839-41 Melbourne born resident would have free settler parents. By 1837, there were 350 people and 55,000 sheep in the Melbourne area. (http://museumvictoria.com.au/marvellous/early/index.asp) Melbourne didn't boom until the 1850s gold rush. John Dodds in rainy and cold San Francisco (for you lucky people in summery Aust.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra & Phil West" <sandrawest@bigpond.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS > Lesley > > If a child was born in Melbourne in 1839-41, what chance would they being > born of free non-convict parents? > > Phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel > Sent: Sunday, 14 December 2008 3:41 PM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS > > Hi Phil > > Perhaps it was not Robert Winter per "Fortune" and Mary Hurd/Herd, etc > alias > Davies per "Morley". A few years after their marriage in 1821, Robert was > up > in > Moreton Bay and Mary in the Factory. Robert obtained a Ticket of Leave in > 1839 > and I am pretty certain it for the Maitland area (NSW). It was not until > 1844 > that Robert obtained his Conditional Pardon. > > Regards > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil > West > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:42 PM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS > > > Hi all > > Has anybody any information on Robert WINTERS who apparently arrived 1813 > and later married Mary HERD. If this is the correct person, he had a son > Robert born Melbourne 1839. > > Phil West > Tennant Creek > > - > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Lesey, Sarah's age is indeed helpful in providing a context.......at least I can reject the "sister" relationship safely and probably the "Aunt" too. Regards Tony> From: ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:33:01 +1100> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Sarah KING: "Planter" to NSW> > Hi Tony> > The Indent states that on arrival Sarah King gave her age as 40.> > regards> > > Lesley Uebel> mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> CLAIM A CONVICT> http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html> > > > > -----Original Message-----> From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com> [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Tony Cocks> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 1:00 AM> To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Cc: evelyneketone@hotmail.com> Subject: [AUS-CON] Sarah KING: "Planter" to NSW> > > > Hello, Sarah KING, age unknown, was convicted of being a "fence" at the Old> Bailey on 20/08/1838, sentenced to transportation for 7 years and sailed for NSW> aboard the "Planter" on 20/10/1838. Her co-defendant was George> KING........son, brother or nephew, sadly the relationship is not> explained.......and he was eventually transported on the "St. George" to New> Zealand in 1842 as one of the "Parkhurst Boys" (not as an Apprentice but on> license as a Free Immigrant). There is also the llkelihood that Thomas KING,> also transported aboard the "St. George", was George's brother, although tried> for a different offence 4 months later. No further details for Sarah KING have> been retrieved, either in England or NSW. Can anyone help please? Regards Tony> Cocks> > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Get Windows Live Messenger on your Mobile http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000001ukm/direct/01/

Linda, I wrote (email) to the Stafford Library to find out what had been printed in the newspaper of the time of my ancestors trial. . As you have the year and date this should be possible to find if there is a report. I received a reply from Dominc Farr. He is the assistant Librarian in the William Salt Library in Stafford. His address is dominic.farr@staffordshire.gov.au I have not been able to find any records online for these court cases. Robyn in Wodonga ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Leseberg" <lindaleseberg@hotmail.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Stafford Quarter Session Records > > Hi List, > > Daniel Baker was one of 190 convicts transported on the ship Asia, 03 > September 1820 to Australia. He was convicted at Stafford Quarter Session > for a term of 7 years on 12 Jan 1820. I would like to get a copy of any > trial information that exists; can anyone point me in the right direction? > > Cheers > Linda, Bathurst Australia > _________________________________________________________________ > Net yourself a bargain. Find great deals on eBay. > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Frover%2Eebay%2Ecom%2Frover%2F1%2F705%2D10129%2D5668%2D323%2F4%3Fid%3D10&_t=763807330&_r=hotmailTAGLINES&_m=EXT > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Tony The Indent states that on arrival Sarah King gave her age as 40. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Tony Cocks Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 1:00 AM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Cc: evelyneketone@hotmail.com Subject: [AUS-CON] Sarah KING: "Planter" to NSW Hello, Sarah KING, age unknown, was convicted of being a "fence" at the Old Bailey on 20/08/1838, sentenced to transportation for 7 years and sailed for NSW aboard the "Planter" on 20/10/1838. Her co-defendant was George KING........son, brother or nephew, sadly the relationship is not explained.......and he was eventually transported on the "St. George" to New Zealand in 1842 as one of the "Parkhurst Boys" (not as an Apprentice but on license as a Free Immigrant). There is also the llkelihood that Thomas KING, also transported aboard the "St. George", was George's brother, although tried for a different offence 4 months later. No further details for Sarah KING have been retrieved, either in England or NSW. Can anyone help please? Regards Tony Cocks

Hi Phil, You might try the website http://www.historyaustralia.org.au/, built by Scott Brown, who just happens to be a professional genealogist in Melbourne. He is/was available at ozgenie@historyaustralia.org.au. I have not looked at his site in a while so not sure if it will help with Robert Winters or not. BUT Scott may be able to help with Melbourne history. He contributes here on occasion. Not sure how much other research you have done, but if you have NOT gotten copies of birth death & marriage certificates from Vic/NSW Authorities, I would suggest that you do so. Since 1856, those finicky bureaucrats insisted on tons of neat info like parents names, ages, occupations, birthplaces, sometimes arrival ships, & years in Colony etc. Most of that info does NOT get into computerized records. I would go after Robert and Caroline's marriage Certificate, (It is actually in NSW (home of the bride??) it is Record No 1871-1305) and also Robert's NSW death Certificate. (I don't have a CD that can get that number since my records stop in 1905- BUT many local libraries in Aust have the Aust Vital Records Index available. It is searchable for BDMs for all the available old pioneers), and also ADA MARY (not May) WINTERS birth which is record No 1881-16349). I could not find any Robt Winters related records in Victoria. A word of warning NOT ALL RECORDS ARE IN THERE. I have a GGGrandfather who we know was born in 1861 (father took care of sheep) in Sale Victoria, & his birth is not recorded, but his marriage certificate says he was born there.. Also the 1828 Census, does not record any of my Dodds family, although, we know that GGGGrandfather James Dodds in 1825 married wife Mary (1815 born free daughter of my only two convicts!!) & son James III (b.1826), were all on their land grant property in Singleton/Hunter river then. Lesley is right about the 1820's free settlers. My James Dodds and his brother arrived in Sydney from Scotland in 1822, & Robyn is right about how difficult it is to track early soldiers & free settlers. You may have a tough time tracking Robert, BUT if you establish that his parents were two of the first settlers in Melbourne, it might be just as good as having convicts. I appreciate the Tennant Creek weather report. Sorry I can't send some of my rain. We need it too. Having seen a sunset over Uluru, I understand what you are going through. but 43!! World record is 57+ (Algeria 1922, & Death Valley California in 1913 -a few hundred miles from me in SF), you still have a way to go. Happy hunting. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra & Phil West" <sandrawest@bigpond.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:23 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS > Lesley > > My Grandmother was Ada May Winters born 1881 in Temora NSW to Robert > Winters > and Caroline (nee Bates b 1848, Bethnalgreen, London) who arrived on the > Beejapore in 14 May 1857, I believe in Sydney. Caroline recorded Ada > May's > birth and states Robert (no middle name) was born in Melbourne in 1839 and > he died in Sydney 18 Jan 1913. Robert was a gold miner and they were > apparently married in Beechworth, Victoria. > > That, and a photo and a family myth he came from Ireland, is all I've got. > > Any suggestions would be appreciated after two seemingly wrong tracks. > > Phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel > Sent: Tuesday, 16 December 2008 8:03 PM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS > > Phil, > > > There were a lot of free settlers who arrived in the late 1820's and after > that. > You have not provided sufficient information to be able to assist. > > I cannot find a child born named Robert Winter (Winters, Wynter, Wynter) > to > anyone in the records in that time frame. > > regards > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sandra & Phil > West > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:32 PM > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert WINTERS > > > Lesley > > If a child was born in Melbourne in 1839-41, what chance would they being > born of free non-convict parents? > > Phil > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

JOhn, I have to agree that the numbers would be few but In my researach I have found a married couple who emigrated in 1842 to Port Phillip, and another batchelor who came from Scotland in 1840 married a settlers daughter in 1842.. Two early lines have convict connections and other early lines are descended from soldiers who accompanied the convicts and stayed. Thes are particularly hard to research and document and seem to be a field in which little extensive research has been published. So just looking at my own tree in which I have tracked the arrival of all my ancestors of the pre 1850 arrivals, two were descended from soldiers, two had convict fathers, 8 individuals were free settlers. This would indicate 30% convict background for my family tree. Accurate statistics would be impossible to acertain. regards Robyn in warm and wet Wodonga

Hi List, Daniel Baker was one of 190 convicts transported on the ship Asia, 03 September 1820 to Australia. He was convicted at Stafford Quarter Session for a term of 7 years on 12 Jan 1820. I would like to get a copy of any trial information that exists; can anyone point me in the right direction? Cheers Linda, Bathurst Australia _________________________________________________________________ Net yourself a bargain. Find great deals on eBay. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Frover%2Eebay%2Ecom%2Frover%2F1%2F705%2D10129%2D5668%2D323%2F4%3Fid%3D10&_t=763807330&_r=hotmailTAGLINES&_m=EXT