Thank you, Rosemary & Liz for looking up the Gunnedah references. A blind fiddler sounds so sad! My fellow was born 1808 so it could be him. Would there be any reason why he's not listed on the NSW deaths index in 1864, especially as there appears to have been an inquest? Do you know where the inquest documents for that area are kept? kind regards Brenda

Wow thanks everyone for your help Meg On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Carol Wood <nanawood@bigpond.com> wrote: > Hi Meg, > > My convict also came on the Claudine. It arrived in Port Jackson on 4 > December 1829 with 180 male convicts, the majority of them from towns in > southern England although mine was from Birmingham in the north. John Sleep > obtained a Ticket of Leave (38/1258) in Parramatta. The number indicates > that he got his TofL in 1838. A copy can be obtained from The Society of > Genealogists via their website. The cost is $11.00 A copy of the > Conditional Pardon can be obtained from the State Records of NSW site. He > was tried in Bridgwater Somersetshire at the Quarter Sessions in 1829. > > As he was still a convict he would have required permission to get married. > There is also a 1837 muster which would show to whom he was assigned. > Sorry > I don't have access to either of these documents but someone else on the > list may be able to do a lookup for you. > > I have read the Surgeon's report of this voyage which is on film and the > surgeon reported that most of the male convicts were suffering from > cattahralis on arrival in Australia. I think this is something like > bronchitis but not sure. > > Cheers, > > Carol > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

hi veronica it a rootsweb page try fermanagh gold or fer-gold,also a good contact is janet cassidy an avid cassidy researcher at caiside@comcas.net part of local lore is that the one of the cassdy bros went bush and married an aboriginal woman at the end of his sentence. good luck paddy.

Hi Meg, My convict also came on the Claudine. It arrived in Port Jackson on 4 December 1829 with 180 male convicts, the majority of them from towns in southern England although mine was from Birmingham in the north. John Sleep obtained a Ticket of Leave (38/1258) in Parramatta. The number indicates that he got his TofL in 1838. A copy can be obtained from The Society of Genealogists via their website. The cost is $11.00 A copy of the Conditional Pardon can be obtained from the State Records of NSW site. He was tried in Bridgwater Somersetshire at the Quarter Sessions in 1829. As he was still a convict he would have required permission to get married. There is also a 1837 muster which would show to whom he was assigned. Sorry I don't have access to either of these documents but someone else on the list may be able to do a lookup for you. I have read the Surgeon's report of this voyage which is on film and the surgeon reported that most of the male convicts were suffering from cattahralis on arrival in Australia. I think this is something like bronchitis but not sure. Cheers, Carol

Surname FirstName Alias Vessel Year Pardon No Pardon Type Date of Pardon Item Reel Remarks Page Order SLEEP John - Claudine 1829 46/449 CP (2C) 1 Jul 1846 [4/4484] 799 - 397-398 hope this helps I could only see 1 John Sleep but he would have needed permission to marry as he was not pardoned till 1846 they normally recieved sentences of 7, 14 yrs or life Christene

Hello I think I may have a convict becase he married in 1838 in NSW. His name is John Sleep. Can anyone tell me anything about him. Thanks in advance Meg Austin

Hi everyone I would just like to thank every one who answered and helped me with the fantastic information of facts and leads, that was supplied to me concerning my Thomas Howard who married Mary Tobin 6th Jan 1841, and a special thank you to Les for opening my eyes to the fact that on their wedding certificate the "with consent of government" was relating to Mary as the convict and not Thomas. What a superb web site we all have here. Thanks again to all Gav

> They are on again in 2009 > 2009 Makings of a City History Conference > Convicts and Culture > Penrith City Library will hold its 8th Annual History Conference on > Saturday 14 March 2009 > The 2009 History Conference participants will be presented with a unique > opportunity to be informed about our history - > TRADE TABLES ARE FREE TO ANYONE OR ORGANISATION ATTENDING > > * Keynote speaker: Babette Smith - speaking on Australia's birthstain > and the legacy of convictism > * Associate Professor Dr Carol Liston - speaking on the cultural > legacy of convict culture > * Lorraine Stacker - speaking on the Emu Plains Convict Farm and their > controversial theatre. > * Dr Roger Morris - speaking on mechanics institutes and Schools of > Arts > * Lindsay Allen, NSW State Records - speaking on records and resources > at State Records to help with historical research on public halls, schools > of arts, picture theatres and other buildings with public space . > * Lorraine Stacker - author of the forthcoming Volume 2 of the History > of Penrith will also inform delegates of her progress and some of the > interesting facts which she has uncovered. > > There is always an opportunity at the end of the day for general > discussion. If your Society/Group/Organisation is interested, please see > our website for more information - > http://www.penrithcity.nsw.gov.au/index.asp?id=3572 > Cost: $30 - includes conference pack, morning tea, lunch, afternoon tea. > Bookings essential. > Enquiries: Vanessa Stockford on 02 47328040 or email: > vstockford@penrithcity.nsw.gov.au > Alison Spencer on 02 47327687 or email: alisons@penrithcity.nsw.gov.au > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > NEPEAN FAMILY HISTORY SOCIETY > Family History Fair > > Sunday 15 March 2009, 10 am - 4 pm > > Penrith City Library, 601 High Street Penrith > > Entry fee - gold coin donation > Please let us know if your Society/Group would like a trade table. Trade > table form is on the website at www.nepeanfhs.org.au > > Stall holders so far include: > > * State Records NSW (providing talks throughout the day) > * Alison Spencer - speaking on the history of postcards - bring them along > on the day for assessment > * Library of Australian History > * Penrith City Library's Research Services > * Rex and Yvonne Toomey > * Nepean FHS, Parramatta, Mays Hill, Shoalhaven, St Marys, Port Macquarie > etc. > > Great raffles again this year including: > > * A year's subscription to ancestry.com.au - World Heritage Package > (valued at $449.95). > * An original set of NSW Government Gazettes for one year in the late > 1800s > > The day will feature: > > * Many trade tables in genealogy and local and family history > * Help with starting your family history > * Opportunity to listen and speak to experts in the field > * Opportunity to access the great resources of ancestry.com.au > * Opportunity to talk family history with members of the NFHS, staff > from Penrith City Library and local and regional historical groups > * Great raffles and a great variety of family history resources > > There is easy parking and drop off in the Civic Centre carpark. > > Enquiries: Lorraine Stacker on 02 47327886 or email: > lstack@penrithcity.nsw.gov.au > Judy McLeod on 02 47331631 or email: jmcleod@exemail.com.au > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > > Lorraine Stacker > Nepean Family History Society > >

Hi, Sorry, how stupid not to mention his name. Charles Sinclair, born 1929, convicted 1852 Antrim. Transportation 1854 on William? Sincerely Ken Sinclair > Trev Symonds <psym8950@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > It might help a bit if we know who you are looking for. > > Trish > Nowra NSW > > > From: kensinclair@optusnet.com.au > > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Brig ' William' > > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: <200901020837.n028bNX9001623@mail07.syd.optusnet.com.au> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > Dear Margaret, > > Transportation from Ireland to Aus. sometime between 1852 and 1856. My > > > GGGrF got 15 yrs for assault and robbery. > > Cheers > > Ken Sinclair > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Brenda On the Indent his name is spelt Hibblethwaite. You will also find a small article about him when he absconded from John Blaxland in the Sydney Gazette - 15 March 1834 Supplementary Page 4 He had been missing since February 25th. The article includes a description of him. Use the spelling as above to do the search. http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Brenda Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 12:07 AM To: AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] Convict - John HEBBLEWHITE /HIBBLEWAITE /EBBLEWHITE, etc Hi Everyone, I'm newbie to the list. It’s three weeks since I discovered I have an Australian convict on my family tree, so I’m new to all this. Please forgive me if I ask some obvious questions. Here’s what I have so far for my fellow. John Hebblewhite baptised 1808, Horsington, Lincolnshire Lincolnshire Archives online:- John Hibblewaite tried 14.1.1830 Lincoln (Kesteven) Qtr Sessions Sentenced to 7 years, NSW for larceny AJCP microfilms (State Library of SA) Convict Registers: - Transported on “Exmouth”, 2.3.1831 arrived Sydney 28.7.1831 AJCP Ship’s Surgeon’s report:- 100 Convicts embarked from hulks “Ganymede”, “Discovery” & “Justitia” at Woolwich, remainder embarked at Sheerness – including boys from the “Euryalus” AJCP NSW convicts arrived NSW 1828-1832:- John Hibblewaite assigned to John Blaxland at Newington AJCP NSW General Muster 1837:- John Hebblewhite assigned to John Blaxland, Patrick Plains NSW Records Office online:- Certificate of Freedom granted 13.7.1839 (I’ve ordered a copy) - Does anyone know how I can access the NSW Ships’ Indents? – apart from flying to Sydney!! - How can I find out if he was on one of the hulks between 14.1.1830 and 2.3.1831? Our State library doesn’t have AJCP films for the hulks. - Any ideas on how to find John after he received his CF in 1839? He’s not listed in the online NSW bmd’s under any of the variations of his surname. Nor other States’ online records. Did these convicts generally stay with their employer or move on? - If he left the colony, what sort of records might show this? He doesn’t appear on any UK census to suggest he was there. Any help or ideas would be really appreciated. Kind regards Brenda Adelaide

A big thank you to Rosemary, Carol & Lesley for all the references - they're just brilliant! Rosemary, thanks ever so for the AGCI entries – we don’t seem to have those CD’s in SA. I'll check the 1837 entry in the NSW Government Gazette. I'm guessing his absconding explains why it took 8 years to get his C of F. I see the Blaxlands had property near Wollombi as well as the Parramatta area. The deaths you listed won’t be him – his parents were Arthur & Ann of Horsington. I’ve noticed a few migrants called Hebblewhite in the Syd Gaz, so these may be their descendants. I am not descended from John - he was the brother of my ggg grandmother. Carol, thanks for the hint about an inter-library loan from NLA – I may use that. Meanwhile, I’ve just discovered our Flinders Uni has a huge collection of the AJCP films, possibly including the hulks films. I’ll give them a try first. Re NSW records – are all pre 1856 bmd’s in the historical index? Or are you saying there could be some more in church records? Lesley, thanks so much for finding the Syd Gaz entry, - I had searched, but missed that one. It's fantastic to get his description. The ElH tattoo will be for Eleanor (nee Hall) his wife. They had been married only a year before he committed the crime. The poor woman was sent back to her original parish after he was convicted – no sign of any children. I don’t know if she ever came out to Australia. How/Where did you find the Indent reference? I’m delighted to get such a helpful response, Kind regards Brenda

Hello All, I am researching the couple above who married in Tasmania in 1843. Both of them had "Free" listed for their Rank on the Marriage Certificate. Is that normal for non-convict people or does it indicate that they were once convicts and had been freed at the time of their marriage? Thanks Lorraine

Hi Everyone, I'm newbie to the list. It’s three weeks since I discovered I have an Australian convict on my family tree, so I’m new to all this. Please forgive me if I ask some obvious questions. Here’s what I have so far for my fellow. John Hebblewhite baptised 1808, Horsington, Lincolnshire Lincolnshire Archives online:- John Hibblewaite tried 14.1.1830 Lincoln (Kesteven) Qtr Sessions Sentenced to 7 years, NSW for larceny AJCP microfilms (State Library of SA) Convict Registers: - Transported on “Exmouth”, 2.3.1831 arrived Sydney 28.7.1831 AJCP Ship’s Surgeon’s report:- 100 Convicts embarked from hulks “Ganymede”, “Discovery” & “Justitia” at Woolwich, remainder embarked at Sheerness – including boys from the “Euryalus” AJCP NSW convicts arrived NSW 1828-1832:- John Hibblewaite assigned to John Blaxland at Newington AJCP NSW General Muster 1837:- John Hebblewhite assigned to John Blaxland, Patrick Plains NSW Records Office online:- Certificate of Freedom granted 13.7.1839 (I’ve ordered a copy) - Does anyone know how I can access the NSW Ships’ Indents? – apart from flying to Sydney!! - How can I find out if he was on one of the hulks between 14.1.1830 and 2.3.1831? Our State library doesn’t have AJCP films for the hulks. - Any ideas on how to find John after he received his CF in 1839? He’s not listed in the online NSW bmd’s under any of the variations of his surname. Nor other States’ online records. Did these convicts generally stay with their employer or move on? - If he left the colony, what sort of records might show this? He doesn’t appear on any UK census to suggest he was there. Any help or ideas would be really appreciated. Kind regards Brenda Adelaide

Hi Gavin, There are several Thomas Howards in the colony but the below entry on the Colonial Secretary's Correspondence obviously refers to the one you are interested in. He may not be the same one who married Ann Williams. You can order copies of the documents on the State Records of NSW site or view them yourself if you live in Sydney. The petition for mitigation of sentence should be particularly interesting as it may give details of his personal affairs and family. HOWARD, Thomas. Per "Indian", 1810 1817 Dec 4 Petition for mitigation of sentence (Fiche 3178; 4/1851 pp.172-3) 1822 Mar 31-1824 Apr 28 Of Richmond. On lists of persons to whom convict mechanics have been assigned (Fiche 3296, X53 pp.4, 17, 29, 44, 59, 74; Fiche 3293, 5/3821.1 p.7) 1822 Jul 11 Convict mechanic assigned to at Windsor (Reel 6009; 4/3506 p.49) 1825 Apr 4-Sep 13 Orders on the Colonial Treasurer for repairing tools for Government (Reel 6070; 4/6037 pp.8, 29, 51) 1825 Jun 16, Sep 14 Re Treasury Orders (Reel 6063; 4/1784 pp.161, 178a) Carol Wood

Hi Gavin I cannot find any evidence that your Thomas Howard was the son of Thomas Howard per Indian. Before Thomas Howard married Mary Tobin, she, as a convict had to apply for permission to marry him. They did this in 1840 - her stated age at the time was 22 and Thomas was 20. Her age is about right as when she arrived in 1837 her age was 19, but I am not certain about the age of Thomas. According to the 1828 NSW Census, Thomas Howard per Indian and family are recorded as: Thomas 50yo Ann 35 yo Charles 15 Ellen 12 Catherine 9 Jonathan 6 David 6 Hiram 2 In the 1823/4/5 General Muster they are recorded as Thomas - living at Argyle Ann - living at Windsor with her children Charles 12 Ellen 9 Rachael 7 Catherine 5 David 2 Jeremiah 2 Not very consistent.... but no mention of a Thomas on either. In the 1828 NSW Census there is only one Thomas Howard listed who was born in the colony. His age at the time was 11 years, therefore born about 1817. He was an Apprentice to James Bowman at Patricks Plains. I think this may be the same lad who in the 1823/4/5 General Muster List was 9 years of age and living in the Orphan School. Why would Thomas (Indian) and Ann Howard only place one child in the Orphan School and not the others! The NSW BDMs have an entry for a Thomas Howard born about 1817 to Robert and Lucy >From the Col. Sec. State Records of NSW HOWARD, Robert. Per "Neptune", 1790 1823 Oct 24 His son Thomas admitted to Male Orphan School 1823 Nov 20 Application for admission into Sydney Benevolent Asylum (Reel 6055; 4/1762 p.95) 1823 Nov 21 To be admitted into the General Hospital (Reel 6011; 4/3509 p.584 I don't know if you have the book "The Second Fleet 1790" by Michael Flynn but devoted nearly 2 columns about Robert Howard, his two partners, one being Lucy (Louisa) Atherton per Minstrel Perhaps it may be best to check with the person who provided that family tree and ask them how they tie in your Thomas with the Thomas per Indian. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Gavin and Marites Spicer Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:18 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] AUS-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 4,Issue 8 (Thomas Howard convict marriage) Hi Thanks Les for your help with Robert Lovelock. With my earlier question if convicts where able to marry, I was referring to a Thomas Howard who was transported on the Indian in 1810 with a life sentence but supposedly has married Ann Williams 1811, My Thomas Howard who married Mary Tobin in 1841 according to a family tree on rootsweb was the third child of Thomas and Ann, but I can't find any evidence that Thomas was their third child and now I am baffled how my Thomas came out to Australia and who his parents are.Any one with any clues? Please help. Also I find it puzzling that a life sentenced convict had permission to marry within twelve months of arriving in Australia. and his ticket of leave is 1814 and a pardon around 1818, does this mean that Thomas was still fulfilling his convict sentence after marriage, or when permission for marriage was granted you were set free? Thank you, Gav

Hi Thanks Les for your help with Robert Lovelock. With my earlier question if convicts where able to marry, I was referring to a Thomas Howard who was transported on the Indian in 1810 with a life sentence but supposedly has married Ann Williams 1811, My Thomas Howard who married Mary Tobin in 1841 according to a family tree on rootsweb was the third child of Thomas and Ann, but I can't find any evidence that Thomas was their third child and now I am baffled how my Thomas came out to Australia and who his parents are.Any one with any clues? Please help. Also I find it puzzling that a life sentenced convict had permission to marry within twelve months of arriving in Australia. and his ticket of leave is 1814 and a pardon around 1818, does this mean that Thomas was still fulfilling his convict sentence after marriage, or when permission for marriage was granted you were set free? Thank you, Gav

Yes Gavin, convicts did marry whilst still serving their sentence...... they applied to the Governor for permission. Many females married shortly after their arrival - it took them off the Governments hands :) Which convict are you referring to? And the answer to your earlier question - Robert was assigned, on arrival, to Frederick May of Camden and according to the "General Return of Convicts - 1837" was still assigned to him in 1836/7. This publication has him arriving on the Adrian and it should read Andromeda it also states he was working for J Maye but I feel is it the same man. Frederick May, according to the 1828 NSW Census arrived free on the Lord Wellington - they say 1822, but I think should read 1820. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Gavin and Marites Spicer Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:08 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] marriage of a convict Where convicts allowed to marry while serving their crime?, and if so could this hapen after arriving in the colony within 10 months while serving a sentance of life?

Would anyone in the group have a reference to a publication /list etc., that gives details of any convict workers, preferably with names, who were assigned to Surveyor General, Sir Thomas Mitchell. I am particularly concerned with the period from 1834 onwards. These would have been convicts assigned to Mitchell personally. While a visit to the SLNSW would probably provide the all information needed, I am currently recovering from an accident and tied to home base. So, Any assistance at this time would be very much appreciated. Jennifer DR.JENNIFER LAMBERT TRACEY BA(ANU); M.APP.SC.(UC);PhD(UC) PO Box 4284 ST. LUCIA SOUTH, QLD. 4067 Tel:07 3701 2771 Fax:07 3701 2211 Mobile: 0419011860

----- Original Message ----- From: " Gavin and Marites Spicer" <gavinandmarites5@dodo.com.au> To: <AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Robert Lovelocks master's name > Hi > Could any one out there please help? I am searching for the name of > my convict g grandfather Robert Lovelock's master he was assigned to > after arriving on the Andromeda in 1833. Robert was assigned to > someone around Queanbeyan Hi Gav Have you checked in the 1837 Muster ? Bye MargM Beautiful Wyong Shire NSW

Just To add my two bobs worth...Many of the Surveyors or (Sappers) were Royal Engineers Cheers Liz Norfolk Island -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sue Olsen Sent: Thursday, 15 January 2009 1:14 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] What is Town Surveyors Department Trish, I would think that would mean that he was under the employ of the survey department... which could mean a number of things. he may have been his assistant.. or perhaps he saddled the horses and prepared the equipment. Surveying was a massive thing especially as the colony expanded. surveyors were used for all kinds of jobs... they also accompanied many of the "explorers" on their trips to discover new areas. That would be my thought. He could have been a clerk. The town surveyors department would most likely refer to a selection of government employees that looked after the inspection and measurement of the land for the colony. (much like they are now) also for inspecting new lands. Regards Sue. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message