----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Elgood" <stane@ozemail.com.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 2:32 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert CASON b.1792 > Hi Lisa, > > I have a Collins Road Atlas of Britain which shows three Sudbury listings: > > Sudbury on the A134 motorway south of Bury St. Edmonds in Suffolk > > Sudbury just off the A50 in Derbyshire, North west from Burton on Trent > > Sudbury also listed as part of the Greater London area not far from > Wembley > > Essex as I understand it from the map, is presently north east of the > greater London area, but may well have ecompassed a bigger portion of > London > and surrounds back in those times. > > Lyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa Wright" <lisachicken@hotmail.com> > To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:10 AM > Subject: [AUS-CON] Robert CASON b.1792 > > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Listers Now on Ancestry - convicts Permission to Marry. Cheers Joanne

Hi Tony, this message was to another Tony.. who had sent a query about a Robert ALCOCK. Not sure how you managed to get hooked up. Sorry for the inconvenience. Regards Sue.

Hi Glenys. I am not related to the ALLCOCK family I was looking up an early convict index for another subscriber. The only Charles I have that died 26 march 1851 aged 19 years. He was not married. Sorry I couldnt be of more help. Regards Sue.

Hi, I checked Peter Mayberry's site Irish Convicts to NSW on http://members.pcug.org.au/~ppmay/cgi-bin/irish/irish.cgi and he definitely is there. These are the details given: Martin Brennan Alias:            Irish Rebel:           Religion: Catholic       Age on arrival: 20 Marital status: Single Calling/trade: Ship labourer Born: 1815        Native place: Dublin Tried: 1834      Dublin          Sentence: 7     Former convictions: Ship: Royal Admiral (3) [1835] Crime: Stealing copper funnel You might like to also check State Records http://www.records.nsw.gov.au where there is a Ticket of Passport for him passed by Queanbeyan bench on 2/3/1840. If you are able to get to a library that holds the ARK records you may be able to view the microfilm reel for this and for his ticket of leave. Linda --- On Tue, 17/2/09, lhaines <lhaines@dragnet.com.au> wrote: From: lhaines <lhaines@dragnet.com.au> Subject: [AUS-CON] Martin Brennan To: AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Received: Tuesday, 17 February, 2009, 9:58 AM Hi, I am seeking information on Martin Brennan,convict born Dublin Ireland, arrived Aust on ship Rpyal Admiral 22-1-1835. Lorraine ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sue, Was was wondering if you have a CHARLES ALLCOCK in your family, He was born 1814 Alcester Warwickshire, m Mary Ann Dunn Powell 1844. Thanks Glenys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Olsen" <sueolsensueolsen@gmail.com> To: <tonycocks1@yahoo.com>; <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 2:08 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert ALLCOCK (aka ALCOCK) > Hi Tony, I am unable to help with your query but wonder if there is an > Edward ALCOCK in amongst the family you are looking for. He died in 1854 > in > Brisbane (then Moreton Bay) aged 60 years. > Also > Charles ALCOCK also died aged 19 years on the 26 March 1851. > Both were buried at the North Brisbane Burial Ground ( called now either > Milton/ Paddington Cemetery) It does not appear that they were removed > after > the cemetery closed. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

HI Lisa, I've just tried to look up when Sudbury was part of Essex or when it changed to Suffolk. It seems the area as always been across the border between the two counties. Parts of what may be called Sudbury were in Essex and parts were in Suffolk. As late as 1989 parts of this area were being transferred between local government agencies. Information concerning registration districts on FreeBMD shows the area covering Suffolk and Essex. Is it quite possible that Robert was born in Essex and still considered himself from Sudbury. Many of my ancestors came from Huntingdonshire which was absorbed into Cambridgeshire so I know the feeling well. The Court quarter sessions would cover the area of the crime regardless of where he lived but in any case would certainly have covered all the area around Sudbury, Essex or Sufolk. There are certainly a number of CASON families in the area and I've come across a CATTON (2 Ts) in the same area. Good luck with your research, you could be looking for Smith or Brown Ted Drake NSW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Wright" <lisachicken@hotmail.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:10 AM Subject: [AUS-CON] Robert CASON b.1792 > > Hi All, I would really appreciate some guidance on this as I am not sure > where to look next.I am looking for place of birth and parents names This > is the information I have to date.- Arrived Earl St Vincent 1820, 7 years, > larceny. Tried at Suffolk Quarter Sessions.- Married to Jane GATTEN > 9/9/1845- Fathered 4 children with Jane GATTEN between 1845 - 1852 in NSW > and SA.- Death Certificate puts place of birth ESSEX. No parents named.- > Age on death certificate makes likely year of birth 1792 (likely as he > died in mid January)- Was definitely married before being sent to > Australia. I got this information from the Christian Israelite Church, as > he converted to this religion whilst i Australia. If I plug the year and > name and Country into the Mormons Family Search site I get 1 hit which > matches all these details. Except it puts his Christening place as > Sudbury, Suffolk. I have done some investigating and found that there is > a Sudbury in Essex also. So that makes me wonder as ! > > to how accurate the place of death on the death certificate is. Adding > weight to this is the fact that Robert was also tried in Suffolk Quarter > Sessions. However I don't want to make the assumption that this is his > birth record. I would really like to find names of his English family on > other records. Can anyone suggest where I might look next? > > Your help is greatly appreciated. > Lisa > _________________________________________________________________ > It's simple! Sell your car for just $50 > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3853 (20090214) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > >

>From www.familysearch.org Robert Cason 1792 Sudbury Suffolk son of Samuel and Ann Waring Cason (Waring may be Ann's family name) DOB 06 May 1792 and christening 26 July 1792. There are a number of marriages for Robt Cason in Suffolk in the time frame 1812 to 1820 Ted

Hi to all, I have come across this useful piece of information for people with early convicts whose marriage was recorded in Parramatta but may in fact have occurred on Norfolk Island. Taken from "Norfolk Island 1788-1813 The People and their Families" by James Hugh Donohue Unfortunately, neither Rev. Richard Johnson's nor Rev. James Bain's Norfolk Island Registers have survived. It appears that they did record their ceremonies. Many Norfolk Island people were found among St. John's (Parramatta) records. It could not be clearly determined in some cases whether the parties were in fact in Parramattta or on Norfolk Island at the time mentioned. However, in the short time (48 hours) he was on Norfolk Island, according to Rev. Johnson's report to Lieutenant Governor King mentioned in Historical Records of Australia, he married up to 100 couples living in common law relationships or courting. It was the practice, until 1810, for the island's records to mention children of convicts by their mother's surname rather than the father's. In most instances that does help the researchers identify the mother but, unfortunately, does not provide any assistance in locating people later in life. The actual impact really was that when a researcher worked back through the records, he could not link particular parties to people who were on Norfolk Island. For example, in 1809 there was a young boy named John Anderson noted in Hobart. However, there was no Mr. or Mrs. Anderson in Hobart. Who was he and how did he get to Hobart? If a person is descended from John, he or she would be pleased to know that he was the son of two First Fleeters, but to establish that fact would be a Herculean task for the novice researcher. The realities were that John's father by 1809 was dead and his mother had remarried. His mother and step-father were Mr.+ Mrs. Francis Flexmore. John's father was John Anderson who arrived on the Scarborough in 1788. Just after his arrival he married Elizabeth Bruce who had arrived on the Lady Penrhyn. The couple had four children. John Snr died prior to the evacuation of the island. No wonder we get confused!! Carol

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Olsen" <sueolsensueolsen@gmail.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Robert CASON b.1792 >> Below is the references from NSW. > > V1845369 30B/1845 CASON ROBERT GATTON JANE > CV > > The CV at the end represents the following information about the > Church > > CHURCH OF ENGLAND, Berrima, Bong Bong, Sutton Forest, All Saints (co > Camden) > > Do you have this Marriage certificate.. I note that you have the > date of > marriage as 9/9/1845 > Perhaps the marriage certificate would have been more reliable than > a death > certificate as he had to have provided that information himself. Hi Lisa Pre 1857 NSW baptism burial & marriage records give very little additional info . If you havent got copy the church records are on film in many libraries . You can look up for just cost of your time . If you cant access the films get a transcription Bye MargM Beautiful Wyong Shire NSW

Hi Lisa, I have a Collins Road Atlas of Britain which shows three Sudbury listings: Sudbury on the A134 motorway south of Bury St. Edmonds in Suffolk Sudbury just off the A50 in Derbyshire, North west from Burton on Trent Sudbury also listed as part of the Greater London area not far from Wembley Essex as I understand it from the map, is presently north east of the greater London area, but may well have ecompassed a bigger portion of London and surrounds back in those times. Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Wright" <lisachicken@hotmail.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: [AUS-CON] Robert CASON b.1792 >

Lisa, there is a marriage in NSW to a Robert CASON (note the misspelling) and Jane GATTEN in 1845. I had not been able to find a Marriage to a Robert CATON in England.. and given that he was only 18 years of age when he was convicted he would not have been able to marry. under 21. Plus he was a convict... they had to have permission to marry. Below is the references from NSW. V1845369 30B/1845 CASON ROBERT GATTON JANE CV The CV at the end represents the following information about the Church CHURCH OF ENGLAND, Berrima, Bong Bong, Sutton Forest, All Saints (co Camden) Do you have this Marriage certificate.. I note that you have the date of marriage as 9/9/1845 Perhaps the marriage certificate would have been more reliable than a death certificate as he had to have provided that information himself. I would write to the church in Sudbury in Essex.. ask for a lookup of the christening details. I hope this helps you... Sue.

Hi All, I would really appreciate some guidance on this as I am not sure where to look next.I am looking for place of birth and parents names This is the information I have to date.- Arrived Earl St Vincent 1820, 7 years, larceny. Tried at Suffolk Quarter Sessions.- Married to Jane GATTEN 9/9/1845- Fathered 4 children with Jane GATTEN between 1845 - 1852 in NSW and SA.- Death Certificate puts place of birth ESSEX. No parents named.- Age on death certificate makes likely year of birth 1792 (likely as he died in mid January)- Was definitely married before being sent to Australia. I got this information from the Christian Israelite Church, as he converted to this religion whilst i Australia. If I plug the year and name and Country into the Mormons Family Search site I get 1 hit which matches all these details. Except it puts his Christening place as Sudbury, Suffolk. I have done some investigating and found that there is a Sudbury in Essex also. So that makes me wonder as to how accurate the place of death on the death certificate is. Adding weight to this is the fact that Robert was also tried in Suffolk Quarter Sessions. However I don't want to make the assumption that this is his birth record. I would really like to find names of his English family on other records. Can anyone suggest where I might look next? Your help is greatly appreciated. Lisa _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $50 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT

Hello Lisa Although the town of Sudbury is in Suffolk it is on the Suffolk/Essex border and it may be that Robert Cason was born just south-west of the town, and therefore just within Essex. I am not aware of a Sudbury in Essex, but you may be right. There is, for example, yet another Sudbury in North West London Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Wright" <lisachicken@hotmail.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] Robert CASON b.1792 > > Hi All, I would really appreciate some guidance on this as I am not sure > where to look next.I am looking for place of birth and parents names This > is the information I have to date.- Arrived Earl St Vincent 1820, 7 years, > larceny. Tried at Suffolk Quarter Sessions.- Married to Jane GATTEN > 9/9/1845- Fathered 4 children with Jane GATTEN between 1845 - 1852 in NSW > and SA.- Death Certificate puts place of birth ESSEX. No parents named.- > Age on death certificate makes likely year of birth 1792 (likely as he > died in mid January)- Was definitely married before being sent to > Australia. I got this information from the Christian Israelite Church, as > he converted to this religion whilst i Australia. If I plug the year and > name and Country into the Mormons Family Search site I get 1 hit which > matches all these details. Except it puts his Christening place as > Sudbury, Suffolk. I have done some investigating and found that there is > a Sudbury in Essex also. So that makes me wonder as ! > to how accurate the place of death on the death certificate is. Adding > weight to this is the fact that Robert was also tried in Suffolk Quarter > Sessions. However I don't want to make the assumption that this is his > birth record. I would really like to find names of his English family on > other records. Can anyone suggest where I might look next? > > Your help is greatly appreciated. > Lisa > _________________________________________________________________ > It's simple! Sell your car for just $50 > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Annette, Thank you for going to so much trouble on my behalf, it is greatly appreciated. I might also try the LDS research centre on Kissing Point Road, (suburb probably North Parramatta) which I know have lots of resources. Once again, thanks for trying. Cowra is a nice town. I've stayed overnight a couple of times when we take our overseas family visitors on a run from the Hunter Valley, through Dubbo to Canberra to show them something of the country. Also, I;m involved with Eisteddfods so I know about the great Eisteddfod you have in your town. Very best wishes, Sharon > From: iapring@snoopacowra.com > To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 08:07:02 +1100 > Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Isaac NOWLAND > > Hi Sharon > > I went to our local family history group rooms this week, but apparently we > did not have the reel of film with this on it. I emailed the BDM's with > little luck there, so contacted one of my fellow researchers whose Mother > goes to the Heritage Centre at Parramatta and her reply was - "The last > volume of BDM Registers I can see at Parramatta Heritage Centre Library is > No. 137." - So it looks like you will have to get a transcription or just > check with one of the transcribers if it can be viewed anywhere that we > don't know about. > > I imagine there will be little if any other information on the certificate, > there will be no parents otherwise they would have been listed. There could > be a cause of death and more importantly a date of death which will allow > you to look at newspapers of the day to see what you can find....37 years is > pretty young to die, even in 1856. > > Sorry I could not get what you wanted, but I did try. > > Annette in Cowra NSW > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sharon I went to our local family history group rooms this week, but apparently we did not have the reel of film with this on it. I emailed the BDM's with little luck there, so contacted one of my fellow researchers whose Mother goes to the Heritage Centre at Parramatta and her reply was - "The last volume of BDM Registers I can see at Parramatta Heritage Centre Library is No. 137." - So it looks like you will have to get a transcription or just check with one of the transcribers if it can be viewed anywhere that we don't know about. I imagine there will be little if any other information on the certificate, there will be no parents otherwise they would have been listed. There could be a cause of death and more importantly a date of death which will allow you to look at newspapers of the day to see what you can find....37 years is pretty young to die, even in 1856. Sorry I could not get what you wanted, but I did try. Annette in Cowra NSW

Hi Tony, I am unable to help with your query but wonder if there is an Edward ALCOCK in amongst the family you are looking for. He died in 1854 in Brisbane (then Moreton Bay) aged 60 years. Also Charles ALCOCK also died aged 19 years on the 26 March 1851. Both were buried at the North Brisbane Burial Ground ( called now either Milton/ Paddington Cemetery) It does not appear that they were removed after the cemetery closed.

  Hello Listers,   I wonder if someone can help please.   Robert ALLCOCK (ALCOCK) arrived in Sydney aboard the "Hashemy" on 09/06/1849, the ship itself having been refused disembarkation rights at Port Phillip.  He was born c1830 in Salford, Manchester, the son of Richard and Elizabeth ALLCOCK, and was transported for 7 years after being found guilty of "stealing apparel" at the Lancaster (Salford) Quarter Sessions on 31/08/1846.  He was granted an immediate Ticket of Leave for the Newcastle District and that is the last sighting, despite comprehensive research of the various on-line indexes.  Any information about his subsequent life would be very welcome, especially if there was ever any chance of there being a family reunion:      His elder sister Catherine born c1826 was transported to VDL on the "Emma    Eugenia" in 1843 and elder brother Jonathan born c1829 on the "Adelaide" to VDL    in 1849.   Incidentally, both Robert and Jonathan were "Parkhurst Boys".   Thank you   Tony Cocks

----- Original Message ----- From: "Robyn Gross" <regross@iprimus.com.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Jacob Winter > Phil. > > had you noted the death of a MARY WINTER V1833634 17/1833 no place > or other > information givee . > > " Jacob Winter married Mary Hart in Castlereagh in 1830. Also a > Jacob > Winter >> married Catherine Laffin in 1833 in St Marys Sydney." > Hi Robyn Mary WINTER who d 1833, died at Bathurst. This info is on the CD and fiche version Pioneers indexes but one of life's little mysteries as not on in the line death indexes Bye MargM Beautiful NSW Central Coast NSW

Hi Rosemary, Thank you for those references. They may come in handy and I don't have the CD. However, Lesley seems to have completely shot down in flames the idea that My James Hogan was a convict because he did not need to ask for permission to marry in 1846. The family moved to Orange before 1859. I will get hold of birth registration details for one of the later children. Thanks again for your ideas and information, Linda --- On Wed, 11/2/09, Rosemary Martin <rosemary.e.martin@gmail.com> wrote: From: Rosemary Martin <rosemary.e.martin@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] James Hogan lived Carcoar/Bathurst/Orange ~1840 - ~1885 To: linda_necia@yahoo.com.au Received: Wednesday, 11 February, 2009, 6:08 PM Hi Linda Lesley has already asked you about his death certificate, which could hold the answers (if the Informant knew). But I'd also strongly suggest the birth certificates of one or more children who were born after civil registration began in 1856. They have space for both parents' place of birth & ages, & the information was stated whilst the parents were still alive. If one certificate doesn't answer, try another. (do you know that it's cheaper to use a Transcription Agent? You can also buy part-transcriptions.) Don't assume that because they married in a Catholic Church that both were Irish. I have an Irish girl in our family tree who also worked at Montifiore & lived in Wellington. She married an Australian-born Anglican in the Mudgee Catholic Church. The AGCI2 cd (taken from NSW Govt Gazettes) shows a James HOGAN of Wellington received a 'Convict Indulgence'- advertised 12 Feb 1845. (GG1845 Page 176) He would seem a likely candidate. This would probably be - NSW Index to Certificates of Freedom HOGAN James John Barry 1836 45/0451 2 Apr 1845 4/4397 1019 TL 45/392 There are other references on this cd that could be him. a 'Postal' reference, 5 Jan 1847, Wellington (unclaimed mail) 'Land Transactions' on 7 July & 15 Aug 1855, & 25 June 1856, all Wellington County. If you don't have access to this cd & can access the NSW Govt Gazettes, I'll give you the page numbers for these entries. Good luck Rosemary Linda Combe wrote: I am a new subscriber to this list. I have an ancestor about whom I know very little, who may have been a convict. I do not have a concrete reason to suspect he was a convict except the fact that so little information was passed on about him that a big secret seems likely. Can anyone please help with more information about my ancestor or a guide to how to find it? This is what I do know: James Hogan was my gg grandfather. He married Bridget Collins at the old St Michael's Catholic Church in Bathurst on 11/8/1846. He was listed as from Frederick's Valley on the marriage registration. Their first child Ellen Hogan was born on 12/9/1847 and baptised in the parish of Carcoar on 20/2/1848 by M. McGrath. James Hogan was listed as a Labourer and his abode as Wellington. This is conjecture: I found at least 3 James Hogan's arriving on convict transports. The one I favour is the one who arrived on the ill-fated Hive (2) in 1835. (The ship ran ashore south of Jervis Bay on 10/12/1835 and 248 prisoners and crew had to be taken to Sydney on 3 other boats.) >From the General Return of Convicts 1837 page 302 I found: #12654 James Hogan age 21 Ship Hive 1835. His master was Charles Booth of Bathurst district Page 148 in the Original. >From the Peter Mayberry website, I found that this man was tried at Limerick on 10/3/1835 and sentenced to life for the crime of Stealing Sheep. His native place was Tipperary. he was born in 1813 and married with 1 child (another reason for secrecy if his marriage to Bridget was bigamous?) I looked at his ticket of leave 44/816 granted 18/3/1844 and it said "Allowed to remain in district of Carcoar". There is a very faint note on the side of this  saying - Altered to Bathurst 21/12/1846. The reason I chose this James Hogan was that the place he was sent to work and subsequent place of Ticket of Leave agree with my known facts re him. I would be grateful for any assistance at all, Thank you Linda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message