Sydney Gazette - Easter 1803 The day before yesterday being Good Friday, was observed as a Holiday through out the Colony, and Divine Service was performed at Sydney in the Forenoon. This being Easter Sunday, Divine Service will be performed by the Rev. Mr. MARSDEN, at St. John's Church Parramatta, for the first time. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article625505 Cathy Dunn

Hi Trish Thank you so much You have pointed out that ancestry.com.au has published the pdf copy of Governor Hunter's Women Convict Assignment Report 1798 with out any permission and placed on their server What other copy write material has been gleamed of the net and CDs and placed on their server Cathy Dunn Governor Hunter's Women Convict Assignment Report 1798 - EVANS, Sarah. Wife to James Stewart. 1790 Neptune 1/11/1786 Denbighshire 7 years. Married 18/12/1791 St John's Parramatta. John Robinson witness. James Stewart arr 1788 Scarborough. Tried 1784 Stealing. James died November 1806. 30 acres 11/11/1794 Eastern Farms. The Sarah Evans 1791 Mary Ann 29/9/1879(?) Worcester married J Casher and they had settled in Windsor before 1822. http://trees.ancestry.com.au/objects/download/73e6059c-527d-448e-8be4-aa8a6b 4a3d56/Convict%20Women%20in%20Australia%20179.pdf

Very Interesting question. WHO owns the copyright? Is it now a public domain document? Copyright has been internationally standardized, lasting between fifty to a hundred years from the author's death according to Wikipedia. Copyrights originated with the Statue of Anne in 1710 (in England) with protection for 14 years. so Gov Hunter's document went public in 1812. Ancestry.com also has the 1828 Census etc etc etc Finally Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. If they post it for us to use, don't argue. They have lots of lawyers on their staff who I'm sure investigate if it is legal. John Dodds in springy San Francisco. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <john.mail@ozemail.com.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:19 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Governor Hunter's Women Convict Report 1798 > > > Cathy wrote: > >>> Hi Trish > >>> Thank you so much >>> You have pointed out that ancestry.com.au has published the pdf copy of >>> Governor Hunter's Women Convict Assignment Report 1798 with out any >>> permission and placed on their server > >>> What other copy write material has been gleamed of the net and CDs and >>> placed on their server > >>> Cathy Dunn > > > > > > > Mmmmm, > > > Interesting question Cathy. > > I'm not sure of the answer, others might have an opinion and I'll be > interested to read. > > Generally on 'computer' matters I have sometimes seen people who think > that > every email you have ever sent over the internet, and/or every VOIP verbal > communication too perhaps, may be being held by America for possible > intelligence purposes [for they control the satellites it all passes via]. > > If so, I suspect they may possibly delete my emails eventually as > unintelligent ... but could be a long time getting around to doing it? > > Another MASSIVE 'copyright' question has always been "who has any legal > software .. ?'. > > Blush? > > Microsoft once even made the offer, I believe, of "Tell us what illegal MS > software you are running and well send you a legal copy" - with proviso > that the source was dobbed in. > > Others may seem to think that the answer to any legal matter is how big > and > expensive a lawyer you can hire(?). > > And keep on hiring .. if the matter grew protracted. > > Is that not so? > > > Regards, > > > > > John > > (in Sydney) > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Trish The very early Indents available to us were those made up in the UK and not as a result of a muster on board on arrival as per later Indents or ship musters. The early Indents list many convicts who did not embark, or died before embarking, or died on board before sailing, or were pardoned etc. There were also many convicts not listed on these early Indents who did arrive on the early transports and sometimes can only e found by checking the various Musters, Colonial Secretary's records and some other records such as Pardons etc. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Trev Symonds Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 6:47 PM To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-CON] Sarah EVANS and Neptune Hi Chris, "According to one book (M. Flynn) Sarah from Denbighshire was pardoned and never left Wales .? " I think it is fairly conclusive that, for whatever reason, Sarah EVANS from Denbighshire did get transported to New South Wales and married James STEWART - On the Convicts to Australia website, Sarah EVANS is reported on board the "Neptune", tried Denbighshire on 11 July 1786, and departed England. Sailed 19 January 1790 from Portsmouth with 424 males and 78 females, trip took 160 days, and arrived 28 June 1790 - http://www.convictcentral.com/ Lesley Uebel's website shows the same information, with the addition of a 7-year conviction - http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/page29.html

Hi Chris, "According to one book (M. Flynn) Sarah from Denbighshire was pardoned and never left Wales .? " I think it is fairly conclusive that, for whatever reason, Sarah EVANS from Denbighshire did get transported to New South Wales and married James STEWART - On the Convicts to Australia website, Sarah EVANS is reported on board the "Neptune", tried Denbighshire on 11 July 1786, and departed England. Sailed 19 January 1790 from Portsmouth with 424 males and 78 females, trip took 160 days, and arrived 28 June 1790 - http://www.convictcentral.com/ Lesley Uebel's website shows the same information, with the addition of a 7-year conviction - http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/page29.html The Queensland Convict database shows Sarah EVANS as one of 1,063 convicts transported on "Neptune", "Scarborough" and "Surprize", December 1789 - convicted at Denbighshire quarter sessions for a term of 7 years - http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/page29.html Governor Hunter's Women Convict Assignment Report 1798 - EVANS, Sarah. Wife to James Stewart. 1790 Neptune 1/11/1786 Denbighshire 7 years. Married 18/12/1791 St John's Parramatta. John Robinson witness. James Stewart arr 1788 Scarborough. Tried 1784 Stealing. James died November 1806. 30 acres 11/11/1794 Eastern Farms. The Sarah Evans 1791 Mary Ann 29/9/1879(?) Worcester married J Casher and they had settled in Windsor before 1822. http://trees.ancestry.com.au/objects/download/73e6059c-527d-448e-8be4-aa8a6b4a3d56/Convict%20Women%20in%20Australia%20179.pdf Australia's Second Fleet shows Sarah EVANS from Denbigh, term of 7 years - http://members.pcug.org.au/~pdownes/dps/2ndflt.htm Notes from Jenny French on the Convict Death Fleet (2nd fleet) and the Neptune. http://www.historyaustralia.org.au/ifhaa/ships/2ndfleet.htm There must be a number of books on the Neptune and the Second Fleet that you could scour through and maybe get lucky with Sarah EVANS. Good luck Trish Nowra NSW > Would any lister be kind enough to check something on the Parramatta > musters for me around 1791? > I am hoping for a record of a SARAH EVANS tried in Denbighshire in 1786 > who appears in the lists for the Neptune"and the Second Fleet. > Two women by that name are on the early lists.? > > One Sarah Evans came over on the Neptune, married James Stewart in 1791 at > St George?s , Parramatta and settled in NSW. > I have?a copy of the register page showing this marriage . > The only other Sarah Evans who was recorded as having been transported in > time for the Parramatta marriage (Sarah Evans from Worcester ) is linked > with another man in the records as his concubine. > My problem is that the record of the marriage between Sarah and James > gives no information about origins.? Neither does Gov. Hunter?s > Assignment?Report; It just records that the Sarah Evans referred to in it > married James Stewart.? > According to one book (M. Flynn) Sarah from Denbighshire was pardoned and > never left Wales .? I have a copy of the pardon from the National > Archives, UK .? There seems to be no record of her in Denbighshire after > 1790, however and I believe it is possible that Sarah did sail and that > she and Grace Jones, tried the same day, both listed as being on the ? > Neptune ?, were transported from Ruthin Gaol in error. > The only thing I can think of now is that there would be an indication of > the origin and vessel recorded in the musters. > I'd be grateful to hear if anyone else had other ideas. > In return I have transcribed some of the records about their time in the > Denbighshire Legal System and in Ruthin Gaol and would be willing to share > the info. > I hope?someone is able to help and appreciate your time.? Thank you > Chris Moore Williams

Thank you for that very detailed message! All the lists from various sources seem to point to her having been on the "Neptune", I agree.  It's just the conflict between the General Pardon granted to 4 prisoners at Ruthin Gaol, Sarah and Grace among them, and the appearance of two different Sarah Evanses in the lists before 1791.  I have seen Cathy Dunn's publication.  Trouble is Gov. Hunter's Report does not give origin or vessel and neither does the marriage certificate to James Stewart. I shall follow up a lead very kindly sent by Rosemary and then go back to Ruthin Gaol records again to see whether there is any record there of the release date.  So far last mention of the Ruthin 4 was a plea for some clothes and blankets. THANKS again. Chris. --- On Thu, 9/4/09, Trev Symonds <psym8950@bigpond.net.au> wrote: From: Trev Symonds <psym8950@bigpond.net.au> Subject: [AUS-CON] Sarah EVANS and Neptune To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, 9 April, 2009, 9:46 AM Hi Chris, "According to one book (M. Flynn) Sarah from Denbighshire was pardoned and never left Wales .? " I think it is fairly conclusive that, for whatever reason, Sarah EVANS from Denbighshire did get transported to New South Wales and married James STEWART - On the Convicts to Australia website, Sarah EVANS is reported on board the "Neptune", tried Denbighshire on 11 July 1786, and departed England. Sailed 19 January 1790 from Portsmouth with 424 males and 78 females, trip took 160 days, and arrived 28 June 1790 - http://www.convictcentral.com/ Lesley Uebel's website shows the same information, with the addition of a 7-year conviction - http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/page29.html The Queensland Convict database shows Sarah EVANS as one of 1,063 convicts transported on "Neptune", "Scarborough" and "Surprize", December 1789 - convicted at Denbighshire quarter sessions for a term of 7 years - http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/page29.html Governor Hunter's Women Convict Assignment Report 1798 - EVANS, Sarah. Wife to James Stewart. 1790 Neptune 1/11/1786 Denbighshire 7 years. Married 18/12/1791 St John's Parramatta. John Robinson witness. James Stewart arr 1788 Scarborough. Tried 1784 Stealing. James died November 1806. 30 acres 11/11/1794 Eastern Farms. The Sarah Evans 1791 Mary Ann 29/9/1879(?) Worcester married J Casher and they had settled in Windsor before 1822. http://trees.ancestry.com.au/objects/download/73e6059c-527d-448e-8be4-aa8a6b4a3d56/Convict%20Women%20in%20Australia%20179.pdf Australia's Second Fleet shows Sarah EVANS from Denbigh, term of 7 years - http://members.pcug.org.au/~pdownes/dps/2ndflt.htm Notes from Jenny French on the Convict Death Fleet (2nd fleet) and the Neptune. http://www.historyaustralia.org.au/ifhaa/ships/2ndfleet.htm There must be a number of books on the Neptune and the Second Fleet that you could scour through and maybe get lucky with Sarah EVANS. Good luck Trish Nowra NSW > Would any lister be kind enough to check something on the Parramatta > musters for me around 1791? > I am hoping for a record of a SARAH EVANS tried in Denbighshire in 1786 > who appears in the lists for the Neptune"and the Second Fleet. > Two women by that name are on the early lists.? > > One Sarah Evans came over on the Neptune, married James Stewart in 1791 at > St George?s , Parramatta and settled in NSW. > I have?a copy of the register page showing this marriage . > The only other Sarah Evans who was recorded as having been transported in > time for the Parramatta marriage (Sarah Evans from Worcester ) is linked > with another man in the records as his concubine. > My problem is that the record of the marriage between Sarah and James > gives no information about origins.? Neither does Gov. Hunter?s > Assignment?Report; It just records that the Sarah Evans referred to in it > married James Stewart.? > According to one book (M. Flynn) Sarah from Denbighshire was pardoned and > never left Wales .? I have a copy of the pardon from the National > Archives, UK .? There seems to be no record of her in Denbighshire after > 1790, however and I believe it is possible that Sarah did sail and that > she and Grace Jones, tried the same day, both listed as being on the ? > Neptune ?, were transported from Ruthin Gaol in error. > The only thing I can think of now is that there would be an indication of > the origin and vessel recorded in the musters. > I'd be grateful to hear if anyone else had other ideas. > In return I have transcribed some of the records about their time in the > Denbighshire Legal System and in Ruthin Gaol and would be willing to share > the info. > I hope?someone is able to help and appreciate your time.? Thank you > Chris Moore Williams ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Peter, Thank you for all that information, I will look up some of the references. Carol Wood

Would any lister be kind enough to check something on the Parramatta musters for me around 1791? I am hoping for a record of a SARAH EVANS tried in Denbighshire in 1786 who appears in the lists for the Neptune"and the Second Fleet. Two women by that name are on the early lists.  One Sarah Evans came over on the Neptune, married James Stewart in 1791 at St George’s , Parramatta and settled in NSW. I have a copy of the register page showing this marriage . The only other Sarah Evans who was recorded as having been transported in time for the Parramatta marriage (Sarah Evans from Worcester ) is linked with another man in the records as his concubine. My problem is that the record of the marriage between Sarah and James gives no information about origins.  Neither does Gov. Hunter’s Assignment Report; It just records that the Sarah Evans referred to in it married James Stewart.  According to one book (M. Flynn) Sarah from Denbighshire was pardoned and never left Wales .  I have a copy of the pardon from the National Archives, UK .  There seems to be no record of her in Denbighshire after 1790, however and I believe it is possible that Sarah did sail and that she and Grace Jones, tried the same day, both listed as being on the “ Neptune ”, were transported from Ruthin Gaol in error. The only thing I can think of now is that there would be an indication of the origin and vessel recorded in the musters. I'd be grateful to hear if anyone else had other ideas. In return I have transcribed some of the records about their time in the Denbighshire Legal System and in Ruthin Gaol and would be willing to share the info. I hope someone is able to help and appreciate your time.  Thank you Chris Moore Williams

For what they are worth here are some notes I made about the 1820 uprising: References: 1 A History of Australia Manning Clark Volume 1 page 92 2 The Rising of 1820 by Francis A Sherry published by William McClellan Glasgow 1974. This book provided the information for the preceding paragraphs on the rebellion. 3 A History of the Scottish People 1560-1830 by TC Smout published by Fontana Press 1998 first published by William Collins & Sons 1969 4 I first heard this phrase from Anne Burgess on the genealogical bulletin board Moray@rootsweb. She is very sceptical about many of the traditions and clan stories that became very popular in the nineteenth century when Sir Walter Scott's books were best sellers. For example, tartan designs mainly developed during this period. 5 About one man in seven got the vote Situation at the end of the 18th century Whatever the political and economic situation the fact remains that advocating repeal of the Union was sedition. Conviction meant transportation and many were found guilty. Often these trials were either in England or before stacked juries. It was illegal to try Scotsmen in England for crimes committed in Scotland according to the Act of Union. However, the English realised that few convictions would result if the prisoners were tried in Scotland. The expectation of few convictions was due to two factors. Firstly, Scotsmen were unlikely to punish their compatriots for saying what many thought. The union was, and remains, unpopular with many of the people. Hence, in the eyes of many the action of the "rebels" was a legitimate protest against tyranny. Secondly, the Scottish law was much less harsh than the law of England. In the late 18th Century, the English were hanging 10 to 12 people a day whilst the Scots might hang six per year. Scottish sentences were milder and the judges had much more discretion. If used, transportation usually was for only three, five or ten years as opposed to seven or fourteen years or life (Ref 1) . For example, there were few Scots in the First and later Fleets transporting convicts to NSW; there were however many Irish and Ireland was governed by English law. Finally, there was the 1820 Radical rebellion. The authorities hanged three and transported a number to Botany Bay. On 1st September 1820, a weaver from Strathaven, James Wilson, was publicly executed and then beheaded at Glasgow Green in front of a crowd of some 20,000 people. He was in part a victim of Government hysteria at a long- running unrest in the working classes. Their wages were miserable and work was ever harder to find, especially during the post- Napoleonic war period. His daughter and niece secretly took Wilson's remains from the paupers' grave in the Glasgow High Church. They interred him in a family plot in Strathaven, where there is now a monument to his martyrdom. In Stirling, the authorities publically hanged two others, Hardie and Baird. There are not many books about the 1820 rebellion but Sherry's book (Ref 2) is interesting. It deals primarily with the fate of the ringleaders and does not provide much background to the causes. Smout (Ref 3) states that there were "mass meetings, rioting and violence. culminating in the so called Radical war of 1820 which has more of the characteristics of the proletarian disturbances of contemporary England." The last uprising of the clans was reportedly in Elgin Moray in 1820 when the Grants marched on Grant Castle to protect Lady Anne Grant during an election dispute. This story may owe more to the "Brigadoon Industry" (Ref 4) than historical fact but Moray Council published it on its web site. Finally, in 1832, Parliament passed the first Reform Bill and the people stared to gain more power (Ref 5). HTH Peter Ferguson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Wood" <nanawood@bigpond.com> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Scottish convicts/martyrs > Hi Linda, > > Thanks for your reply. It does sound like an interesting episode in > Scottish history that has been all but forgotten. > > Carol > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Linda, Thanks for your reply. It does sound like an interesting episode in Scottish history that has been all but forgotten. Carol

Hi, The following names were transcribed from the 'Martyrs' Monument', Sighthill Cemetery in Glasgow, Scotland "For their part in the 1820 Rising the following, originally sentenced to death were transported to New South Wales, Australia and in 1835 were given a Royal Pardon" JOHN ANDERSON, JOHN BARR, WILLIAM CLACKSON or CLARKSON, JAMES CLELLAND ANDREW DAWSON, ROBERT GRAY, ALEXANDER HART, ALEXANDER JOHNSON, ALEXANDER LATIMER, THOMAS McCULLOCH, THOMAS McFARLANE, JOHN McMILLAN, BENJAMIN MOIR, ALLAN MURCHIE, THOMAS PIKE or PINK, WILLIAM SMITH, DAVID THOMPSON, ANDREW WHITE, JAMES WRIGHT. Does anyone know what the 1820 Rising was? Carol Wood

Do any of the listers have more information on Ann Jones, please as to where she was tried and her crime? John Cox married Ann Jones, who was convict:- Ann was born in County Clare in Ireland. Ann was a convict, she sailed from the Downs on 3rd May 1838 and arrived in Port Jackson on the 27th August 1838, after 116 days at sea, on board were 171 female prisoners, 23 convict's children, there were also 5 free women, 19 children and passengers on the ship "John Renwick". The Master was John Byron and the Surgeon Andrew Smith. Ann Jone's Certificate of Freedom. Certificate of Freedom- JONES Ann. "John Renwick" 1838 45/0556 22 Apr 1845 4/4398 1020 TL 44/2429; prisoner no. 38/0199. Cheers Rhonda

I found the following on a website about Springburn  http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/springburn/springmitchell.htm "The most famous of those interred at Sighthill were, however, of much lower rank. In 1847 a monument was raised by public subscription to honour John Baird and Andrew Hardie (later James Wilson was also commemorated there). These three men were all executed for taking part in the so-called Radical War of 1820. In that year the first mass strike in world history took place when 60,000 workers in the West of Scotland downed tools for the right to vote. Baird, Wilson and Hardie, along with some others, carried their protest as far as armed insurrection, and paid the ultimate price, though their example inspired later generations of reformers who eventually achieved many of the original aims of the men of 1820." Here is another website which is a very harrowing account of the execution of Baird and Hardie: http://www.gcal.ac.uk/radicalglasgow/chapters/1820_insurrection.html It all sounds nearly as desperate as the French Revolution. Thanks for drawing our attention to this. I wonder what happened to the 6 baker boys who were transported without any trial. Linda --- On Mon, 6/4/09, Carol Wood <nanawood@bigpond.com> wrote: From: Carol Wood <nanawood@bigpond.com> Subject: [AUS-CON] Scottish convicts/martyrs To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Received: Monday, 6 April, 2009, 11:40 AM Hi, The following names were transcribed from the 'Martyrs' Monument', Sighthill Cemetery in Glasgow, Scotland "For their part in the 1820 Rising the following, originally sentenced to death were transported to New South Wales, Australia and in 1835 were given a Royal Pardon" JOHN ANDERSON, JOHN BARR, WILLIAM CLACKSON or CLARKSON, JAMES CLELLAND      ANDREW DAWSON, ROBERT GRAY, ALEXANDER HART, ALEXANDER JOHNSON, ALEXANDER LATIMER, THOMAS McCULLOCH, THOMAS McFARLANE, JOHN McMILLAN, BENJAMIN MOIR, ALLAN MURCHIE, THOMAS PIKE or PINK, WILLIAM SMITH, DAVID THOMPSON, ANDREW WHITE, JAMES WRIGHT. Does anyone know what the 1820 Rising was? Carol Wood ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks Ted for your reply , I went to school taught by St Joseph nuns and always appreciated those days during the 1930,s depression, their social work was out standing. Regards Kath

If anyone is wondering why a sister of St Joseph is featuring on the "Bad Boys" list, she was 2nd cousin twice removed to John Punyer, whose exploits have featured in this correspence. I couldn't guess whether she would approve or not. Ted

Hi Kath, Sister Immaculata born and baptised Elizabeth Punyer 1859 was a Sister of Saint Joseph, the order co founded by the Blessed Mary MacKillop in 1866. Mary opened the first Saint Joseph's School in a disused stable in Penola. Young women came to join Mary, and so the Congregation of the Sisters of St Joseph was begun. In 1867, Mary was asked by Bishop Shiel to come to Adelaide to start a school. From there, the Sisters spread, in groups to small outback settlements I hope to find out some more about Sr Immaculata but she was a sister by 1883 when she travelled with two other sisters to found a school at Temuka New Zealand. This information is available on http://www.sosj.org.au/about/new_zealand/History-Temuka.html Sr Immaculata's burial is recorded on NSW burials 1947 Drummoyne Sydney NSW regards Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Connors" <kcon@tsn.cc> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] re Death of John PUNYER > May I ask Ted what order was Sister Immaculate in. > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted & Magi" <tedandmagi@bordernet.com.au> > To: <AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:46 PM > Subject: [AUS-CON] re Death of John PUNYER > > >> sorry folks, that should have been Sister Immaculata Punyer died >> Drummoyne >> 1947 aged 88 >> Ted >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3986 (20090403) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > >

May I ask Ted what order was Sister Immaculate in. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted & Magi" <tedandmagi@bordernet.com.au> To: <AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:46 PM Subject: [AUS-CON] re Death of John PUNYER > sorry folks, that should have been Sister Immaculata Punyer died Drummoyne > 1947 aged 88 > Ted > >

sorry folks, that should have been Sister Immaculata Punyer died Drummoyne 1947 aged 88 Ted

Hi Rosemary and Michelle, thank you for those pointers. The Mudgee cemetary link is fabulous and the 1887 PUNJAH death in Parramatta will be followed up. The AGCI cd is new to me, I will look into it. The information on birth certs is encouraging, I will buy Elizabeth's. The information on the newspaper site is "illuminating" "not guilty both times" Thanks again Ted

I'm still trying to gather information on this man, he was a 3x great Uncle but feels much closer. I have his arrival and conviction details and his freedom etc etc but he was a bit of a rascal to put it politely. Born 1811 Kent convicted for stealing poultry and sentenced to 7 years and transported. Left wife and daughter behind, she subsequently remarried as a widow. Arrived Australia 1835 Marquis of Huntley. He had three children with Seli(e)na, no further info on her found. Sarah 1850, Selena 1854, and Elizabeth 1857. Only Elizabeth has a region Mudgee against her record Is it likely on a birth certificate for this time that further information would be shown? There is a death registered for Sarah 1853, and also a death for infant John 1855 but no birth registered. There are no other related PUNYER deaths registered upto 1930. John 1811 didn't stay out of trouble Mudgee q.s. Oct '67 stealing from a person 3 years Orange bench May '75 stealing 4 months Bathurst April '79 Horse stealing and stealing a saddle 12months Hard Lab. At 68 he must have been fitter than me, I need a chair to get on a horse nowadays. (He had his picture taken at this time which I have and is one of my prized Family History possessions). Then he falls off the radar . No registered death (in NSW anyway) I can't find any records for Selina , no recorded marriage that I could find. nor is there any record for her children. There is a note on his record that says he used the alias Bunion, but no records for that name either.The PUNYER name is quite uncommon, even in England and is a local east Kent name. I believe all instances are related apart from a Germanic name sometimes spelt Punjer. Another Punyer, Henry came to Australia about 12 years after John , married Mary Kelly and settled in NSW. His children I've found and his records are pretty clear. Hopefully SKS will come across come details of Selina and John, They seem to be pretty much stuck in the Hunter valley area and I've not found evidence of him returning to UK. FHS stands for faith and hope as well as family history Ted