I received the transcript of John Punjah's death, 6th December 1887. A bit sad really, "injuries to the throat self inflicted - verdict of a coroner's jury." Nothing known about him other than place of birth England, everything else unknown. Buried in Rookwood cemetary. He was an inmate of the Macquarie Street Asylum, known before 1884 as The Erysipelas Hospital, and "gradually merged into an Asylum for the Infirm and Destitute". Google turns up a fair bit of information about the place. I haven't found any records of admissions/inmates etc for the Asylum, I suspect they are somewhere. Does anybody have any clues. This doesn't prove that it is the death of John Punyer but I suspect it is. My last record for John Punyer was his incarceration at Bathurst in 1879 for one years hard labour. I can't find a record for the entry of a John PUNJAH into Australia. The names would have sounded identical if the 'j' was sounded in the germanic manner. I'd appreciate any help to put this sad story behind me. John was sentenced to jail three times in the Hunter region of NSW and was found not guilty twice more. John came from an agricultural background in Kent England and left a wife and child behind when he was transported for poultry theft in 1835. Ted

Looking for information regarding Joseph ARNOLD convict no.1491 who arrived Sydney per "Indian" 16 Dec 1810 arrived Tasmania 1816. Have found 'Ticket of Leave' info, but cannot find death information, however in the conduct book the last entry re behaviour is 1819. How would one find when he died or where he died? TEA, Lorraine Standfield.

Looking for any connections to George Peachey who arrived on the convict ship Joseph Somes in about 1847. Regards, Kerry

Hi Everyone, I'm trying to trace what happened to Thomas Samuel Gadbury who was transported 23 Apr 1830 and he travelled on the ship the"Manilus" to Van Dieman's Land. Thomas was convicted of Theft: simple grand larceny and Joseph Wake for Theft: receiving stolen goods on the 21 Feb 1828. The goods were stolen from Thomas's father Robert (a warden) and he reported him. Witnesses included his mother Rachael Gadbury and sister Mary. He was sentenced to 7 years transportation. He was 14 years old at the time of his conviction. I lose him after his arrival in Tasmania. Any help would be appreciated. Deb Melbourne Victoria

Hello everyone I am wondering whether anyone has done any research on a John Britton. I am following up a lead from one of my other family lines and am interested to find out more about John Britton, where he came from and parents names if possible. It seems there may have been 2 transported. The one I am interested in would probably be from Ireland. Has anyone done any research along this line that might be able to help me. I would normally go to State Records and look up the references myself but have moved temporarily to the Northern Territory which makes it a bit difficult. The two references I have are:- Cert of freedom - BRITTON John Lady Kennaway 1836 42/2083 5 Dec 1842 4/4378 1012 TL 41/329 Convict pardon - BRITTON John - Earl St Vincent - 39/1592 CP 15 Feb 1839 [4/4481] 774 - 030 Any help appreciated Veronica

Hi Debra, There is a record for an inquest held on 15 Sep 1830 into the death of Thomas Gadbury in the Tasmanian archives. http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=93 There are also a couple of female Gadburys in the General index. Fanny Jane Gadbury died in Deloraine in 1858. Mary Ann Gadbury born in 1846 married Benjamin Hampton in 1862. Sounds like a tragic story. Linda --- On Fri, 17/4/09, Debra Rohde <rohde11@dodo.com.au> wrote: From: Debra Rohde <rohde11@dodo.com.au> Subject: [AUS-CON] Thomas Samuel Gadbury To: AUS-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Received: Friday, 17 April, 2009, 1:51 PM Hi Everyone, I'm trying to trace what happened to Thomas Samuel Gadbury who was transported  23 Apr 1830 and he travelled on the ship the"Manilus" to Van Dieman's Land. Thomas was convicted of Theft: simple grand larceny and Joseph Wake for Theft: receiving stolen goods on the 21 Feb 1828. The goods were stolen from Thomas's father Robert (a warden) and he reported him. Witnesses included his mother Rachael Gadbury and sister Mary. He was sentenced to 7 years transportation.  He was 14 years old at the time of his conviction. I lose him after his arrival in Tasmania. Any help would be appreciated. Deb Melbourne Victoria ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The relpy ro an email includes the uriginal text. This adds to the total monthly cost un the web. If you want to keep all revelemt emails tobether then copy each one to the bottom of a word doc. ttfn

Not sure about the specifics of Newgate to Spithead but I do know that in the 1820s, prisoners awaiting transportation after sentencing at Lancaster Assizes, which is 260 mile by road north of London, spent up to 7 weeks in the dungeons of Lancaster Castle before being moved by road to one of the many hulks moored anywhere along the Thames between London and Sheerness, just to the south of the mouth of the Thames and another 50 miles by road from London. Transportation was "contracted" out, usually to the prison Governor or his family because it was such a lucrative little sideline. "Contractors" were paid one shilling per mile per prisoner. Male prisoners were shackled and travelled by foot in batches - a dozen or so was not unusual - but females went by cart or were tied to the top of coaches. The average time taken for the male transfers was 17 days. There were no luxury river cruises. Time on the hulks before sailing could be anything from months to years during which time they worked 6 days a week on the docks and could receive visitors. Source: Archives & Research, Lancaster Castle Hope this helps, Don Sutherland Peter Wrote: Can any lister advise me as to how a convict would be moved from Newgate Gaol to Spithead for transportation to New South Wales in 1819 please? Would they walk/march under guard, be put onto a dray or wagon? Forgive my knowledge of London geography, would they be moved by barge down the Thames? Peter Melbourne Australia **************

Can any lister advise me as to how a convict would be moved from Newgate Gaol to Spithead for transportation to New South Wales in 1819 please? Would they walk/march under guard, be put onto a dray or wagon? Forgive my knowledge of London geography, would they be moved by barge down the Thames? Peter Melbourne Australia

Hi Cathy Sarah SMALL is my Husband's 3rd Great-Grand Aunt. Married to George PATFIELD 1820 s/o George PATFIELD and Mary BRIEN-BRIAN-BRYAN His line is through Ann PATFIELD (1796-1855) m: 1812 William PINCHAM (Cal 1787-1855) Then William PINCHAM (1828-1915) m: 1851 Jane MASHAM (1831-1904) Then Sarah PINCHAM (1851-????) m: 1870 William RAYNER (1828-1892) MargaretB Lake Macquarie NSW Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "South Coast Promotions" <office@scpromotions.com.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Governor Hunter's Women Convict Report 1798 > > Hi Margaret > No they cant - steps have been taken to remove the pdf off ancestry > Also Mary BRIEN-BRYAN-BRIAN Bellona 1793 connects with my Husband's John > Small family > > Cathy Dunn

Hi Margaret No they cant - steps have been taken to remove the pdf off ancestry Also Mary BRIEN-BRYAN-BRIAN Bellona 1793 connects with my Husband's John Small family Cathy Dunn ---- Hi Cathy >ancestry.com.au has published the pdf copy of Governor Hunter's >Women >Convict Assignment Report 1798 < Can they do that legally ? and get away with it. In a way I'm pleased this message cropped up as I found my Hubbys 4th Great Grandmother listed. Mary BRIEN-BRYAN-BRIAN Bellona 1793. Even though I already had the information it is nice to have it confirmed. MargaretB Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

Hi Stephanie You said: "an ex-convict who already had a ticket of leave when they wed in August 1845" A convict holding only a Ticket of Leave was still a serving convict. I think you mean that he had received his Certificate of Freedom or a Pardon. If you know that he was a convict, do you know on which transport he arrived? Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Stephanie Cocks Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 5:17 PM To: aus-nsw@rootsweb.com; aus-convicts Subject: [AUS-CON] John Fletcher SMITH Dear Listers, "During the years they lived in NSW the eldest daughter (of Duncan and Ann GRAHAM nee BUCHANAN) Elizabeth married John Fletcher SMITH, an ex-convict who already had a ticket of leave when they wed in August 1845. Their first child, Sarah Ann SMITH was born 3.8.1846 at South Creek County of Cumberland NSW before the entire family travelled overland to settle in South Australia. Oral history dates that epic journey as taking place in early 1851. Sarah Ann SMITH claimed to be the first white child to cross the River Darling. In 1867 she became mrs John OLIVER of Victor Harbor." I received this information from a GRAHAM cousin, and am wondering how I would go about finding more information about John Fletcher SMITH? What was his crime etc., I am descended from Elizabeth's brother Duncan. Any suggestions, thoughts, ideas much appreciated. Stephanie Cocks. Adelaide. :-)))

Dear Listers, "During the years they lived in NSW the eldest daughter (of Duncan and Ann GRAHAM nee BUCHANAN) Elizabeth married John Fletcher SMITH, an ex-convict who already had a ticket of leave when they wed in August 1845. Their first child, Sarah Ann SMITH was born 3.8.1846 at South Creek County of Cumberland NSW before the entire family travelled overland to settle in South Australia. Oral history dates that epic journey as taking place in early 1851. Sarah Ann SMITH claimed to be the first white child to cross the River Darling. In 1867 she became mrs John OLIVER of Victor Harbor." I received this information from a GRAHAM cousin, and am wondering how I would go about finding more information about John Fletcher SMITH? What was his crime etc., I am descended from Elizabeth's brother Duncan. Any suggestions, thoughts, ideas much appreciated. Stephanie Cocks. Adelaide. :-)))

Hi to all on list, I went to a talk years ago on convicts and was told that the British Government had lifted all copyright restrictions on convict records and shipping records to Australia. Can anyone confirm that this is the case? Most of these records are freely available in Australia via the Australian Joint Copying Project films held by the National Library in Canberra. The films are available on inter library loan through local libraries. There are 8 or 9 Guides to the AJCP which details the records held. See the NLA website for details http://www.nla.gov.au/collect/ajcp.html Of course copyright is still held by persons who have compiled their own books and CDs from these records. Carol Wood

Chris wrote: I wish Gov. Hunter's Report WAS online. It isn't. It is ... ancestry have placed it on the server with no permission A Government Order was issued on 7 November 1798 requesting that "every Officer or other Housekeeper in the Colony who may have women servants in their Family" immediately forward the names of such as they employ in their respective Families. There was no response from any Hawkesbury residents, which indicates that the resulting report is incomplete. The results of the Government order became known as Governor Hunter's Assignment List. This being the Return of convict women in the services of Officers or other Households 1798 (SRNSW, COD 197 ref:SZ767 pp.155 - 157). Governor Hunter's Women Convict Report gives a list of women's name to who they were assigned to ... no other details. And yes there were many women convicts missing from the list We index the list and did some additional research back in 1995. I have been organising South Coast Maritime & History Expo which is on for the next two days - http://www.blessingofthefleet.info/maritimeexpo/ Afterwards I will answer all the emails on Sarah Evans Cathy Dunn

Cathy wrote: >ancestry have placed it on the server with no permission I hold no brief for Ancestry, but for the two reasons given below, I think it could be that maybe they (as an organisation) weren't the ones who did it. It could be that some individual has attached it as a document to their own family tree on Ancestry - still without permission, but perhaps not quite as bad? One of my reasons is that try as I might I cannot find the report from within www.ancestry.com.au - the only way I can get to it is by clicking on Trish's link, which she actually discovered by googling. My other reason is that the URL that Trish gave is quite like the URLs for photos or documents attached to public trees in Ancestry. Well, it's a theory, anyway. Sue

On Fri, 10/4/09, John SBC <doddssanford@sbcglobal.net> wrote: <snip> >> Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. > If they post it for us to use, don't argue. <s> >John Dodds >in springy San Francisco. G'day John, I'm not really 'arguing', I don't think. I sympathise if Cathy feels sad that they seem to have taken her work if she thinks they should not have. But, in general, once things are on the internet (as I think ALL government info should aim to be) all you'll mainly hear from me is more cheers. I believe in information liberation for the most part. I think it 'wants' to be free (if information has a soul). We might not have revoluted against the motherland like the American colonists did; but nevertheless most Australians generally support freedom too, I believe. I also think that everything that happens in California sooner or later happens (is copied) here too. As we are your greatest friend and admirer. Not sure what all that means, but hope if means something. Cheers, John in Sydney >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John" <john.mail@ozemail.com.au> >To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:19 AM >Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Governor Hunter's Women Convict Report 1798 > > >> >> >> Cathy wrote: >> >>>> Hi Trish >> >>>> Thank you so much >>>> You have pointed out that ancestry.com.au has published the pdf >copy of >>>> Governor Hunter's Women Convict Assignment Report 1798 with >out any >>>> permission and placed on their server >> >>>> What other copy write material has been gleamed of the net and CDs >and >>>> placed on their server >> >>>> Cathy Dunn >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Mmmmm, >> >> >> Interesting question Cathy. >> >> I'm not sure of the answer, others might have an opinion and I'll >be >> interested to read. >> >> Generally on 'computer' matters I have sometimes seen people who >think >> that >> every email you have ever sent over the internet, and/or every VOIP verbal >> communication too perhaps, may be being held by America for possible >> intelligence purposes [for they control the satellites it all passes via]. >> >> If so, I suspect they may possibly delete my emails eventually as >> unintelligent ... but could be a long time getting around to doing it? >> >> Another MASSIVE 'copyright' question has always been "who has >any legal >> software .. ?'. >> >> Blush? >> >> Microsoft once even made the offer, I believe, of "Tell us what >illegal MS >> software you are running and well send you a legal copy" - with >proviso >> that the source was dobbed in. >> >> Others may seem to think that the answer to any legal matter is how big >> and >> expensive a lawyer you can hire(?). >> >> And keep on hiring .. if the matter grew protracted. >> >> Is that not so? >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> >> John >> >> (in Sydney) >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Cathy wrote: >> Hi Trish >> Thank you so much >> You have pointed out that ancestry.com.au has published the pdf copy of >> Governor Hunter's Women Convict Assignment Report 1798 with out any >> permission and placed on their server >> What other copy write material has been gleamed of the net and CDs and >> placed on their server >> Cathy Dunn Mmmmm, Interesting question Cathy. I'm not sure of the answer, others might have an opinion and I'll be interested to read. Generally on 'computer' matters I have sometimes seen people who think that every email you have ever sent over the internet, and/or every VOIP verbal communication too perhaps, may be being held by America for possible intelligence purposes [for they control the satellites it all passes via]. If so, I suspect they may possibly delete my emails eventually as unintelligent ... but could be a long time getting around to doing it? Another MASSIVE 'copyright' question has always been "who has any legal software .. ?'. Blush? Microsoft once even made the offer, I believe, of "Tell us what illegal MS software you are running and well send you a legal copy" - with proviso that the source was dobbed in. Others may seem to think that the answer to any legal matter is how big and expensive a lawyer you can hire(?). And keep on hiring .. if the matter grew protracted. Is that not so? Regards, John (in Sydney)

Hi Cathy >ancestry.com.au has published the pdf copy of Governor Hunter's >Women >Convict Assignment Report 1798 < Can they do that legally ? and get away with it. In a way I'm pleased this message cropped up as I found my Hubbys 4th Great Grandmother listed. Mary BRIEN-BRYAN-BRIAN Bellona 1793. Even though I already had the information it is nice to have it confirmed. MargaretB Lake Macquarie NSW Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "South Coast Promotions" <office@scpromotions.com.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Sarah EVANS and Neptune > Hi Trish > Thank you so much > You have pointed out that ancestry.com.au has published the pdf copy of > Governor Hunter's Women Convict Assignment Report 1798 with out any > permission and placed on their server > > What other copy write material has been gleamed of the net and CDs and > placed on their server > > Cathy Dunn

I wish Gov. Hunter's Report WAS online.  It isn't.  What Cathy Dunn was pointing out is, that it was HER report on the report which has been appropriated and put online. If Gov. Hunter's Assignment Report IS available online, can you post where we can access it please? Thanks. Chris --- On Fri, 10/4/09, John SBC <doddssanford@sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: John SBC <doddssanford@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Governor Hunter's Women Convict Report 1798 To: aus-convicts@rootsweb.com Date: Friday, 10 April, 2009, 3:20 PM Very Interesting question. WHO owns the copyright? Is it now a public domain document? Copyright has been internationally standardized, lasting between fifty to a hundred years from the author's death according to Wikipedia. Copyrights originated with the Statue of Anne in 1710 (in England) with protection for 14 years. so Gov Hunter's document went public in 1812. Ancestry.com also has the 1828 Census etc etc etc Finally Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. If they post it for us to use, don't argue. They have lots of lawyers on their staff who I'm sure investigate if it is legal. John Dodds in springy San Francisco. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <john.mail@ozemail.com.au> To: <aus-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:19 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Governor Hunter's Women Convict Report 1798 > > > Cathy wrote: > >>> Hi Trish > >>> Thank you so much >>> You have pointed out that ancestry.com.au has published the pdf copy of >>> Governor Hunter's Women Convict Assignment Report 1798 with out any >>> permission and placed on their server > >>> What other copy write material has been gleamed of the net and CDs and >>> placed on their server > >>> Cathy Dunn > > > > > > > Mmmmm, > > > Interesting question Cathy. > > I'm not sure of the answer, others might have an opinion and I'll be > interested to read. > > Generally on 'computer' matters I have sometimes seen people who think > that > every email you have ever sent over the internet, and/or every VOIP verbal > communication too perhaps, may be being held by America for possible > intelligence purposes [for they control the satellites it all passes via]. > > If so, I suspect they may possibly delete my emails eventually as > unintelligent ... but could be a long time getting around to doing it? > > Another MASSIVE 'copyright' question has always been "who has any legal > software .. ?'. > > Blush? > > Microsoft once even made the offer, I believe, of "Tell us what illegal MS > software you are running and well send you a legal copy" - with proviso > that the source was dobbed in. > > Others may seem to think that the answer to any legal matter is how big > and > expensive a lawyer you can hire(?). > > And keep on hiring .. if the matter grew protracted. > > Is that not so? > > > Regards, > > > > > John > > (in Sydney) > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message