Don, THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!! It is wonderful to see the correct definition of the "Trail of Tears". Basically EVERY tribe had their "Trail", not just the Cherokee. And there were more deaths and drop-offs along the way than heads of each wagon train in each tribe would admit. Good luck in getting the Benge route recognized. I have learned much about Indian research and continue to learn from 2 Cherokees who are professional Indian researchers in the old Cherokee Nation. Connie Schofield ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Ott" <dott@centurytel.net> To: <ARMARION-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:08 AM Subject: Fwd: Cherokee > Lou, > Thanks for expressing your opinion on the information I put on the > Marion County Arkansas List. Since you gave your permission I will post > your reply directly on the list. You and I may have somewhat differing > views on what "The Trail of Tears" really is and who might qualify as being > a participant. In my several years of study, I am of the opinion that the > term (nu na hi du na tlo hi lu i) "Trail Where They Cried", could apply to > all 90,000 plus Indians who were relocated as a result of the 1830 Indian > Removal Act, passed by the U.S. Congress. This includes Delaware, Ottawa, > Shawnee, Pawnee, Potawatomi, Sauk, Fox, Miami, Kickapoo, Choctaw, > Chickasaw, Creek, Seminole as well as the Cherokee. The Cherokee resisted > and were among the last to be forced to move. They were removed from > present day Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina > ,South Carolina, Georgia and Alabama. The Cherokees lived in villages in > the land of valleys, ridges, mountains, and streams and their culture was > based on farming, hunting and fishing. This was their ancestral home. They > were a fully civilized society, harming no one. > The Indian Removal Act called for the voluntary or forcible > removal of all Indians from East of the Mississippi River. When Andrew > Jackson said to the Indians, "My friends, circumstances render it > impossible that you can flourish in the midst of a civilized community.", > this alone was enough to make most Indians cry. They in fact were a > civilized society, living here long before those who were throwing them out > of their homes their farms and their close knit communities. > Many of the Indians resisted and reluctantly agreed to move. They > were living in the home of their ancestors, the only place they had know > for all their life. Those who did not voluntarily 'hit the trail' were > rounded up. President Martin Van Buren ordered the implementation of New > Echota in 1838 and had the U.S. Army, under Gen. Winfield Scott, to build > stockades and forts and move the remaining Indians to them immediately. The > Cherokee were the main remaining Indians at that time who had resisted the > move, Gen. Scott ordered the forced round up of about 17,000 remaining > Cherokees. > The Army process was swift and brutal. Soldiers arrived at every > Cherokee house and drove men, women and children out of their homes with > only the clothes on their backs at the point of a bayonet. They were placed > in concentration camps where conditions were horrendous. Food and supplies > were limited and disease was rampant. Intimidation and acts of cruelty at > the hands of the troops, along with the theft and destruction of property > by local residents, caused untold heartache and personal suffering. Finally > Chief John Ross appealed to President Van Buren to let him and some > Cherokee sub chiefs oversee their removal and he guaranteed the President > that he would carry out the process. The remaining Cherokees were divided > into 16 detachments of about 1000 each. Some went by water routes and some > overland. Walking from Alabama to Oklahoma in the dead of winter certainly > was not an enjoyable outing for the Benge group who came through Marion > county Arkansas during Christmas time 1838. Estimates on the amount who > died on this route range from 33 to 242. There were 1103 started the trip, > where would you set the limit so that this route could be appropriately > called a "Trail of Tears"? Where would you set the minimum limit of suffering? > Although over 4,000 Cherokees died, to me it is not that important > as to whether a mother lost one or six of her children. Whether a father > lost his wife, mother, father or just a friend, all of these humans cried > in their heart. I have never heard in my life, anyone who tried to classify > one act of removal as more brutal than the other. I have never heard of > anyone who tried to put a head count on those who died, to qualify part of > the removal as "Trail of Tears" and the other part as just an amble in the > park. > I have worked for several years trying to get the Benge Route of > "The Trail of Tears" nationally recognized and appropriate signs placed on > the trail to memorialize those who passed this way in one of our nations > darkest moments. My plans are to continue until this action is complete, I > encourage those so inclined to help identify the route and to encourage the > appropriate government officials to take appropriate actions. There will be > a National Dedication of the Benge Route of "The Trail of Tears" at noon on > 14 Sept. 2001 at Fort Payne, Alabama. > I believe the term "Trail of Tears" has long been defined Lou and > you and I probably will have little success in trying to change the meaning > or definition. > Don Ott > > > > > >From: LouPero@aol.com > >Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:56:49 EDT > >Subject: Cherokee > >To: dott@centurytel.net (Don Ott) > >X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10520 > > > >I am not a subscriber to the Marion Co mailing list, so can't answer directly > >to the list. My cousin sent me your interesting account of the group of > >Cherokee who passed through Marion Co. > > > >It seems to me that I have read that there is technically only one Cherokee > >removal party that was considered the Trail of Tears. Many of the parties > >travelled with minimal loss of life and often under their own control as the > >Indians moved west. It seems to me to be almost disrespectful of the trials > >of those who were on the disastrous Trail of Tears where so many were lost to > >call all removal groups the 'Trail of Tears". But since it has been quite a > >few years since I read up on this, I am not sure I have the details right on > >this. > > > >In my family (James Madison Luther) there was a persistent notion that we > >were part Cherokee. One of my relatives, son of James M Luther, actually > >applied for Indian status in 1905 (claim rejected.) His story was that the > >Indian blood was from their mother, Lucinda, whose father was Joel Van of > >Clay Co, IN. The story was that the name had been changed from Van to White > >because of bad trouble. I can't even begin to tell you how many years I spent > >trying to track down this story. > > > >This family did have the practice of naming one of the sons Van, or a middle > >name of Van. But I was able to trace the family of Joel White into Pulaski > >Co, KY, back to at least 1800. From what I could learn of the Vann's of the > >Cherokee, the only way this could be a Cherokee Vann was if Edward Van/White > >was the son of Trader Vann by some other wife than Wa-Wli. So there the story > >hung. > > > >Well, in the last couple of years, I have learned more of the history of the > >Pulaski Co area, and I can now see two possibilities for an Indian > >connection. There are Melungeons in the Pulaski Co area, and also, there are > >connections of other Pulaski Co families to Tuscaroras of northeastern NC. > > > >What I think happened is, there probably was an Indian connection back there > >somewhere, but it probably wasn't to the Cherokee. I think my relatives, > >knowing about the use of the Van name in the family for several generations, > >and knowing there were Cherokee Vanns (they were living among the Cherokees > >by 1905) probably just reasoned that they must be Cherokee Vanns. I am hoping > >to unravel the true story some day, but in the meantime, I can tell you that > >ancestral "memories" are not always totally accurate. > > > >If asked to give advice about someone trying to trace Indian connections, I > >would say, "Do your homework." Learn as much as you can about your ancestors > >by the old-fashioned expedient of actually searching records. Follow them in > >the census as far as you can. Read the history of the communities where you > >find them. Learn about their neighbors and allied families. Not every Indian > >was Cherokee, but I would cherish knowing about mine whatever tribe they > >belonged to. > > > >You may post this as you wish, or just take it as a thank you for your good > >deeds. > > > ============================== > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! >