Colleen, You're very welcome and just give me a shout when you're ready for a lookup. I'm planning to go to the Capital (Arkansas History Commission) on Saturday. Give me a few names to look for and I'll see what I can come up with. As for your migration between AR and OK -- I'm in the same boat with both my mom's side and my step-dad's side so I can understand the frustration. Glad to help -- I may need a favor from you one day! Keep in touch. Here's a link that may be helpful to you: <A HREF="http://www.ark-ives.com/">The Arkansas History Commission and State Archives</A> http://www.ark-ives.com/ Susan

In a message dated 6/5/01 6:44:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Vansrib@aol.com writes: > I am glad things went well for you. I guess you get a little weary after a > while; like now I am waiting and have been waiting 4 months for a death > certificate from California. What is bad about dealing with them is they > only have a recording to talk to. No real people. I have written to them > once and still nothing, but they do have my money. > > Hi..........Had to put this comment in about CA records. I have also waited for several months for copies of birth or death certificates in CA. If you want a faster way to go, try the website for <A HREF="http://raogk.rootsweb.com/index.html">Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness - Genealogy Research Tool</A> . The address is: http://raogk.rootsweb.com/index.html. For those of you not familiar with Random Acts, it is a list of volunteers who are willing to do lookups, photos of cemeteries, etc., in the area they live. They do not charge for anything except the cost of copies, film, etc. I have had wonderful luck with several of these volunteers. There is even an opportunity for you to list yourself to volunteer in your area.....you can list exactly what you will and will not be willing to do. The site is worth checking out. I usually write a letter first, asking if they are still willing and when they respond, I send them my inquiry. I have had wonderful luck with a couple of these volunteers!!! Hope this helps someone. Karen (in CA) PS Don't give up on the CA cert!!! They do take awhile, but I've gotten every one I've sent for!

Joyce: Thanks for letting me know at least I don't feel like it was just me. I did about 2 weeks ago get a card telling me that they were processing it. And it had a confirmation number on it, so I will write back to them if I don't get it. I have a cousin that lives in Sacramento and perhaps he may be able to do some foot work for me, if needed. I live in Southern California, so I know they are probably working under stress because of the electricity problems and probably don't have enough staff to handle all their request so just have to do the best they can. Thanks a lot Joyce. Colleen

Judy: When, I first starting to get birth/death certificates from Ok. I had no problems, but the last couple of times have been nightmares. The one in particular was for my great grandmother's death certificate who I knew had one, because after I had already sent for it my cousin sent me one, but since I had paid them my $10.00 I still wanted the one that I had paid for, but when I got my request back they said there wasn't one, and kept my 10.00 and I wrote back and gave them the exact everything and they researched my name and said there was none (I was glad to hear that) and again kept my $10.00 so finally I called the supervisor and told her the number page and everything where she could find it in her archives and finally after spending $30.00, I got her death certificate. Earlier I had sent for another great grandmother's death certificate and gave the birthdate and all the particulars and they sent me back a little girl's death certificate, so I sent it back and this time they sent me the correct one and only charged me for the one. That I can handle, but to be charged for something I didn't get doesn't set too well with me. I am glad things went well for you. I guess you get a little weary after a while; like now I am waiting and have been waiting 4 months for a death certificate from California. What is bad about dealing with them is they only have a recording to talk to. No real people. I have written to them once and still nothing, but they do have my money. I appologize for getting so verbose. Thanks for your help Colleen

In a message dated 06/05/2001 2:45:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Dogmomslg@aol.com writes: > I just checked the address and I got the right page. Check to make sure you > It worked the 2nd time. ~gina~ please visit my website at www.burningskyenterprises.com home - http://hometown.aol.com/ginaburningsky/BurningSkyhomepage.html SoCalPowwows - http://hometown.aol.com/ginaburningsky/BurningSkySoCalpowwows.html family album - http://www.geocities.com/ginaburningsky4/burningskyent_genealogy.html

Susan: I put the address you gave me in my favorites and will do some looking there. And Mysty is doing a look up also. I am not real sure that they were married in Ar. But since my grandmother was born in Peel and we figured that is were she met my grandfather but we don't yet have a date when everyone moved to Oklahoma from Ar. I hate to deal with Ok depart of Vital Statistics. I hate to say that because that is my native state and I love it, but the accessability to the department of Vital Statistics, is not the best and besides you loose your money even if they don't find anything. Susan, if I don't find out anything on the website you sent to me, then I will be calling on you later. Now I am reminded why we love the Marion County List better than any other. It has the best people and the most helpful. Thanks, you made my day. Colleen

If you're talking about the Marion Co web page, Gina, it should be http://www.rootsweb.com/~armarion If it doesn't work, I have no clue why. Mysty shakerag@mtnhome.com *********************************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: <Ginaburningsky@aol.com> To: <ARMARION-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: Re: MCAR marriage records > Got an error message saying this page was not found. Can you recheck the > addy?

I just checked the address and I got the right page. Check to make sure you are not including the period at the end of the the address. Susan

Sorry, Gina, no CARSTEN. There are CARSON and CARTER, but nothing in between. Mysty shakerag@mtnhome.com ********************************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: <Ginaburningsky@aol.com> To: <ARMARION-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: Re: MCAR marriage records > In a message dated 06/05/2001 11:18:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > shakerag@mtnhome.com writes: > > > I have the marriage records for MCAR between 1887 and 1917 so maybe I can > > help here. And there are tons of marriages listed on the Marion Co page > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~armarion. > > > Mysty - > Do you have any CARSTEN marriages for that time frame? They would > have occurred prior to 1901. > ~gina~

Got an error message saying this page was not found. Can you recheck the addy? > please visit my website at www.burningskyenterprises.com home - http://hometown.aol.com/ginaburningsky/BurningSkyhomepage.html SoCalPowwows - http://hometown.aol.com/ginaburningsky/BurningSkySoCalpowwows.html family album - http://www.geocities.com/ginaburningsky4/burningskyent_genealogy.html

In a message dated 06/05/2001 11:18:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, shakerag@mtnhome.com writes: > I have the marriage records for MCAR between 1887 and 1917 so maybe I can > help here. And there are tons of marriages listed on the Marion Co page > http://www.rootsweb.com/~armarion. > Mysty - Do you have any CARSTEN marriages for that time frame? They would have occurred prior to 1901. ~gina~ please visit my website at www.burningskyenterprises.com home - http://hometown.aol.com/ginaburningsky/BurningSkyhomepage.html SoCalPowwows - http://hometown.aol.com/ginaburningsky/BurningSkySoCalpowwows.html family album - http://www.geocities.com/ginaburningsky4/burningskyent_genealogy.html

Colleen, Saw your query on the Marion list concerning California request. I can tell you that I've had the same experience. As long as you KNOW the record is in the county you requested, you will get it... eventually. It does take them a long time compared to other states I've dealt with. If you don't have the county... they cash your check and you never hear from them. Just a FYI. Good luck in your search! Joyce Tennessee, Texas and German Ancestry Please come by and visit! www.ancestraljournal.com

Colleen, I live in LR -- down the street from the Health Dept. Here is a link to give you more info: http://vitalrec.com/ar.html. I recently called Mtn. Home about marriage records - they have very few; telling me that most of the records are now at the Capital on microfilm. I can do a look up for you if you need me to. I try to go to the genealogy department once or twice a month. I've had good luck finding records there. Susan

Marriage records have been maintained by each county in AR about forever, Colleen. They are not maintained on the state level. Of course, since existing counties were cut up to create new counties for so many years, it's pretty important to know the history/parentage/offspring of counties to know where to go for records. The other problem is that so many courthouses burned so often and so many county records were lost in these fires that actual marriage records may no longer exist. For example, the Marion Co courthouse burned twice during the Civil War and again in Aug 1887. That fire took every single county record with it <groan>. Makes research around here a *real* challenge <gulp> I have the marriage records for MCAR between 1887 and 1917 so maybe I can help here. And there are tons of marriages listed on the Marion Co page http://www.rootsweb.com/~armarion. Mysty shakerag@mtnhome.com ************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Vansrib@aol.com> To: <ARMARION-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:04 PM Subject: Re: Howard of Marion Co. > Mysty: > > How early did they keep marriage records in Arkansas? I need to see if I can > find the marriage record of my Grandfather and Grandmother Roberts. I have > never dealt with the Department of Vital Statitics (I need one of those kids > from the spelling bee to help me spell) and after the bad experiences that I > have had with the state of Oklahoma and California I am not sure I want to > travel that route again. I have been waiting since Feb on a death > certificate from California and they have cashed my check and tell me they > are processing my request, but 4 months? > > Mysty if you can tell me how early, I can do the rest myself. Thanks a lot. > > Colleen

Mysty: How early did they keep marriage records in Arkansas? I need to see if I can find the marriage record of my Grandfather and Grandmother Roberts. I have never dealt with the Department of Vital Statitics (I need one of those kids from the spelling bee to help me spell) and after the bad experiences that I have had with the state of Oklahoma and California I am not sure I want to travel that route again. I have been waiting since Feb on a death certificate from California and they have cashed my check and tell me they are processing my request, but 4 months? Mysty if you can tell me how early, I can do the rest myself. Thanks a lot. Colleen

Colleen You were anything but verbose, I just wanted to let you know that so far I have received what I sent for, BUT not so my husband. The same has happened to him as you. So I understand. Being on several OK lists, I've read the horror stories, so no apologies are necessary. Judy Colleen (Curtis) Jackson

Colleen, Sorry, if I'm butting in between you and Mysty but I wanted to tell you my experience with the State of Oklahoma. I have gotten back every request I've sent in, with results. I have about 4 or 5 death certificates on grandparents and great grandparents. And my surnames are fairly common (Hawkins and Curtis). However my husband has gotten every Jackson but his grandfather, and the first names were not even similar. So you see sometimes it works, somtimes not. With Arkansas, I knew the cemetery and exact date of death and date of birth of my ggrandmother Ruth Tracy Richardson, and got a "could not locate" or something like that. So, I thought you could take my experience with the ST of OK for what it's worth but I got everything I requested. Judy Curtis Jackson

Pansylea, here's a rough draft of what we've collected for "Genealogies of Marion Co Families 1811-1900, A Supplement" including some notes. It's far from finished, but it might be of help to you. Mysty shakerag@mtnhome.com 1 WILLIAM HOWARD Sr. b 1770-1780 m ___ b 1770-1780. In Izard Co. AR 1830. Paid poll tax for 1 in Izard Co. AR 1831, 1833. 1 Children of William Howard Sr. 2 WILLIAM "Billy" HOWARD Jr. b KY ca 1802 d Ava, Douglas Co. MO ca 1864 murdered for unwise Civil War comments m/1 KY ___ prob d AR ca 1836; m/2 ___ prob d AR ca 1842; m/3 MCAR ca 1845 HALLELUJAH (___) WEIR b MO ca 1807. In Izard Co. AR 1830, Sugar Loaf Township 1840. Paid poll tax for 1 in Izard Co. AR 1831. Living with them in Sugar Loaf Township 1850 are Hallelujah's children Mary Weir b AR ca 1841 and William J. Weir b AR ca 1843. 3 HENRY HOWARD b KY 1800-1810 m ___ b 1810-1815. In Izard Co. AR 1830. Had 1 son under 5 in 1830. 4 (son) HOWARD b KY 1810-1815. 5 (son) HOWARD b KY 1815-1820. 6 (son) HOWARD b KY 1815-1820. 2 Children of William "Billy" Howard Jr. 7 ADRIAN "Whistling " HOWARD b KY ca 1824 m NANCY A. ___ b TN ca 1829. In Union Township 1850. In Jimmies Creek Township 1860. 8 JOHN E. HOWARD (twin) b MO ca 1828 m ELIZABETH ___. Living with his father in Sugar Loaf Township 1850. 9 JANE E. HOWARD (twin) b MO ca 1828. Living with her father in Sugar Loaf Township 1850. 10 ELIZABETH ANN HOWARD b AR ca 1830 m ___ STITES. 11 SARAH ELIZABETH HOWARD b Yellville 23 Jan 1833 d Ada, Pontotoc Co. OK 18 Jan 1917 m/1 Yellville ca 1853 HENRY ELI NIPPS (son of Elijah Nipps) b Carroll Co. TN 1832 d MCAR bef 1870; m/2 ISAIAH WILKERSON (widower of Mary Howard) b Clinton OH March 1823. 12 JEANNETTA HOWARD b AR ca 1834 m ca 1852 WILLIAM D. HOWARD b Gasconade/Franklin Co. MO ca 1834 d bef 1880; m/2 Van Buren, Crawford Co. AR 1 March 1881 JAMES G. BOWMAN. Living next door to her sister Elizabeth Ann (Howard) Stites in Madison Co. AR 1860. In Madison Co. AR 1870. 13 NANCY HOWARD b MCAR ca 1836. 14 WILLIAM "Bill" HOWARD 3rd b MCAR ca 1841. 15 BERRY D. "Doss" HOWARD b MCAR ca 1842. 2 Children of William & Hallelujah (___) (Weir) Howard 16 SUSANNAH H. HOWARD b MCAR ca 1846. 3 Children of Adrian "Whistling" & Nancy A. (___) Howard 17 LEWIS CASS HOWARD b MCAR ca 1849 18 BRYON HOWARD b MCAR ca 1855. SOURCE: Pansylea Willburn <willburn@earthlink.net>; MCAR 1840, 1850, 1860 census; David Nipps davidnipps@aol.com>; Izard Co. AR 1830 census 1860 MCAR - LITTLE NORTH FORK Andrew 43 TN Jackson Nash 25 IL Lucinda 25 SC Elizabeth 14 IL William 6 IL Caroline 4 IL Sarah E 2 AR 1860 MCAR - SUGAR LOAF Andrew J Howard 13 AR James 12 MO living with John F Brown 29 AL & Paralee (___) 23 TN NOTE: John & Paralee (Maxwell) Brown s/o Robert & Mary s/o Girard Leiper & Katie (Coker) Brown. 1870 MCAR - BUFFALO John Howard 20 MO Minerva 19 AR Gregory F 18 AR living with Berry Wilbur Hudson 42 SC & Sarah (Coker) Hudson 33 AR NOTE: see Forrest Hudson family p 189 # 9 MARRIAGES I George W. Howard 23 Yellville m MCAR 11 Sep 1894 Harriet Cowdrey 22 Yellville. M. G. Howard 48 North Fork m MCAR 18 Feb 1888 Martha Kerley 46 North Fork. William J. Howard 20 Rush m MCAR 5 July 1896 Claudia Lazarus 14 Sylva. Izard Co AR Tax Records 1829-1866. Des Allen. p 107: Benjamin F Howard 1 poll 1866. J M Howard 1 poll 1861. James Howard 1 poll 1858. Marion Co. Tax Records 1841-1866. Des Allen. A R Howard 1 poll 1860. Adren Howard 1 poll 1851. Adren Howard 1 poll 1854. Adren Howard 1 poll 1855. Adrian Howard 1 poll 1849. Adrin Howard 1 poll 1852. Adrin Howard 1 poll 1859. Adrin Howard 1 poll 1860. Andy Howard 1 poll 1859. Aron Howard 1 poll 1853. David Howard 1 poll 1859. J S Howard 1 poll 1859. J S Howard 1 poll 1860. J S Howard 1 poll 1866 + S 12 + 18 T 19 R 13 120 acres. John Howard 1 poll 1851. John Howard 1 poll 1852. John Howard 1 poll 1853. John Howard 1 poll 1855. Howard, see Martin & 1860. William Howard 1 poll 1847. William Howard 1 poll 1849. William Howard 1 poll 1851. William Howard 1 poll 1853. William Howard 1 poll 1855. Lawrence Co. AR Loose Probate Papers 1815-1900. Marion S. Craig. James Howard - Inventory 14 Jan 1867. Widow: Tilitha Howard. p 69. Gilbert L Howard & William H Howard (minors). Guardian: William G Howard appointed 21 Oct 1858. He's their father. Guardianship established because of interest these minors had in estate of their mother. Gilbert L Howard d Jan 1866. No descendents. AR Land Patents - Marion Co. Des Allen: Samuel E Howard 12 March 1894. Original homestead. Part 1: S SW Sec 2 T 20 N R 16 W. Part 2: E SE Sec 3 T 20 N R 16 W. 160 acres. William H Howard 12 Aug 1901. Original homestead. Part 1: SW Sec 9 T 17 N R 15 W. 160 acres. **************************************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: Pansylea Willburn <willburn@earthlink.net> To: <shakerag@mtnhome.com> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: Howard of Marion Co. > Mysty, I have long been stuck on William "Billy" Howard, born in 1802 or 04 > in KY, and living in Marion Co., AR at the time of the 1850 census (listed > as a blacksmith) with a new wife (probably married sometime between 1847-50) > named Hallelujah!!! The three exclamation points were provided by the > census taker in 1850! It is possible that she was formerly Mrs. Weir since > small children with that last name are shown in the Howard household. > > I have all of the Turnbo entries for Billy Howard. I also have a > reconstructed list of his children based on the 1850 census. I do not know > any of the descendants. > > I descend from his daughter Jeannetta Howard, born in 1834 in MO, but I > think Billy Howard was in the Marion Co. area and just across the line in MO > (exact location unknown) since the mid 1820s. He also had a son named > Adrian (Adron?) who was married and living in Marion Co. in 1850. Two of > Billy Howard's daughters married into the Wilkerson/Wilkinson (?) family. > > I know little else about this family. Can you help? Thank you for any > ideas. Pansylea Howard Willburn

I agree, Don. Even the dates and places don't fit. However, that's what it says in "Cemeteries of Marion Co" by Marian Burnes under Patton Cemetery. I'm well aware that the publisher Marian used for this book really did a lousy job so that the book came out with a jillion errors that weren't in the original notes Marian and Lester took over the years. And the corrections I have from Marian don't mention any changes to the burial entry for Joseph Magness <groan>. If the stone for Joseph Magness has this info on it, whoever carved/ordered the stone had his/her geneo a mite confused. In "Big Blue" there are two Rea/Ray/Rhea families besides that of Capt John Curtis Rea/Rhea. Both begin with men born between 1799 and 1816 and both came via Tennessee. It's my guess that Rachel is the daughter of Moses Rea (son of Ezekial & Elizabeth [Pryor] Rea) b VA Oct 1799 d MCAR 11 Sep 1852 m Wayne Co TN ca 1820 Martha Vianna Austin (daughter of William & Rebecca [Moses] Rea) b KY 28 Oct 1801 d MCAR 19 Nov 1858. They are in Union Township MCAR in 1850. But, so far, I have no proof of this. Got any clues, Don? Anyone? Mysty shakerag@mtnhome.com ***************************************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Ott <dott@centurytel.net> To: <shakerag@mtnhome.com> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:07 PM Subject: Magness/Rea > I am now getting confused as well, from all the Magness/Rea traffic. I do > not have Rachel Rea listed as a child of John Curtis Rea (Capt) and > Catherine T. Pope. > Don >

Mysty.......thanks for the additional info. I became confused with the listing of those spouses of Smothers' as being sons and daughters of Joseph and Rachel Magness. Another person I was corresponding with has sent me info that states: Jim Harvey Magness, b. MCAR, m. Martha Smothers (d/o Austin and Mary E. Smothers) Father of Jim H. Magness: Tilford Magness, b. Nov. 16, 1856 in MCAR, m. Samantha Jane Magness(d/o Hugh Magness and Hulda Jane). I don't know which is the correct info at this time. This isn't even my direct line. I descend from Berry P. Smothers,(s/o Austin and Mary E.). I was just filling in the collateral lines, and now I've run into a snag! I guess I could really pursue this and try to straighten them out.........but I need another couple of days in my week! Thanks again for the input. Maybe I'll get some more response from others researching the Magness lines. Karen