Thanks for a good specific answer to a highly nonspecific question. You did a lot better than I did. Typical librarian-type answer...Too much information. Duncan the Librarian _WallDuncan@AOL.COM_ (mailto:WallDuncan@AOL.COM) Yarmouth Port, MA

I know that my ancestors that lived in the southern part of Crawford county had acres and acres of strawberries and the families picked them and they were sold at the home or at the stores around then up in the northwestern side of Crawford they grew grapes. Thanks Sharon cowartd <cowartd@centurytel.net> wrote: Just a note on cotton growing in the hill country of Crawford County. Farmers stopped growing it in the hill country because the land was so poor that you got very few bowls on a plant. The cotton growing era of the hill country was after the Civil War. Slavery was not ever in the economic equation of growing cotton in the hill country. Cotton picking was done by family and neighbors with a few transits (gypsies of which we had for picking strawberries too. There is a permanent colony of gypsies living in Crawford County now. Some hill country farmers did lease land in the river bottoms to grow their cash crop of cotton. This was after the time of slavery. If you study the sociology of the hill and mountain country of Crawford County at anytime you will find very few if any black people involved. There were a few "slaves" brought into the hill country by their owners (either white or Cherokee) before the civil war. Gail -----Original Message----- From: arcrawfo-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:arcrawfo-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of WallDuncan@aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:20 PM To: arcrawfo@rootsweb.com Subject: [ARCRAWFO] Greenwood Junction _Crawford County, Arkansas Populated Places_ (http://www.hometownlocator.com/DisplayCountyFeatures.cfm?FeatureType=po pulated%20place&SCFIPS=05033) includes a Greenwood Junction in or near Ft. Smith ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ARCRAWFO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ARCRAWFO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On May 6, 1828 a treaty was made and authorized by the President and the Chiefs and head men of the Western Cherokees in which the latter exchanged their lands north of the Arkansas River, embraced in the present counties of Pope, Johnson, Franklin, Crawford, Washington, Madison and Newton, included in the Treaty of 1817 for which the United States ceded to the Western Cherokees or old settlers 7 million acres. It was this treaty that Arkansas and Crawford County lost the forty miles of her western boundary. Tonia

Janette, When did Van Buren call itself the "Strawberry Capital of the world" and have a strawberry festival each year? Gail -----Original Message----- From: arcrawfo-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:arcrawfo-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike.Wood Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:12 PM To: arcrawfo@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ARCRAWFO] Dora, AR Crawford co. is a very beautiful place... in fact, most of my roots are in Crawford co. but my ancestors hid themselves well. Mike -----Original Message----- From: arcrawfo-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:arcrawfo-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janette Perryman Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 4:27 PM To: ARCRAWFO@rootsweb.com Subject: [ARCRAWFO] Dora, AR I too live in Van Buren and have lived in Crawford Co for nearly 60 years. I can remember the strawberries and peaches that grew here. Still a good place. Dora is a very quite little community, now just next door to Van Buren. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ARCRAWFO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ARCRAWFO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 1/14/2007 8:20:37 PM Central Standard Time, shugbug@valornet.com writes: Can any of you, knowledgable about Crawford County history, tell me if it was part of the early Indian Territory that included parts of Arkansas? I guess I could look it up but it's nice to have discussion going on here. this is all that shugbug asked for...and got that reply from D

Yes, Crawford Co, was in fact one time the territory, the Territorial Gov. in 1819 passed an act to create and establish the County of Crawford. The area was all Indian Territory, These Cherokee Indians lived under the authority of the US and lived between Point Remove and Lee's Creek and So of the Boston Mts. Information can be found in the Arkansas Gazette of Dec. 2, 1820 papers. This infor was taken from the History of Crawford Co book by the Historical Preservation Ass. of C.C. pages 4 & 5.

I am trying to understand your question, and have sent you a separate EM with historic map URL's, but in part your question is not easily answerable, being a bit like asking 'how high is up?' It all depends upon when, and under the jurisprudence of what nation? Ignoring for the moment the claims of Spain-Mexico based on the old Spanish explorations, and of the British based on their conquest of 'New France', There is the problem of the status of what we call Arkansas following the Louisiana Purchase, when the United States Government, especially under Jefferson, began presuming an Indian Removal from the 'Old Southwest' across the Mississippi to an undefined 'Indian Territory' which included Arkansas but without defined borders... Then there was the 'MIssouri Territory' divided off to allow the creation of a distinct State of Louisiana, from which Arkansas Territory, still with poorly defined orders, was in turn divided..Now turn to the map URL's I have sent you. Good luck, and don't bother your brain reaching for an answer to the question the Indians ask, "What treaty did the United States ever keep?" Duncan the Librarian. Yarmouth Port, MA

Have a look at the maps via URL: _Arkansas Counties Map_ (http://www.seark.net/~sabra/cnty.html#Arkansas%20Territory%20in%201819) Also, you might want to look at the Encyclopedia of Arkansas article on the the 'Osage Line' Duncan Wall (Duncan the Librarian) Yarmouth Port, MA _WallDuncan@AOL.COM_ (mailto:WallDuncan@AOL.COM)

Can any of you, knowledgable about Crawford County history, tell me if it was part of the early Indian Territory that included parts of Arkansas? I guess I could look it up but it's nice to have discussion going on here. Billie

Crawford co. is a very beautiful place... in fact, most of my roots are in Crawford co. but my ancestors hid themselves well. Mike -----Original Message----- From: arcrawfo-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:arcrawfo-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janette Perryman Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 4:27 PM To: ARCRAWFO@rootsweb.com Subject: [ARCRAWFO] Dora, AR I too live in Van Buren and have lived in Crawford Co for nearly 60 years. I can remember the strawberries and peaches that grew here. Still a good place. Dora is a very quite little community, now just next door to Van Buren. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ARCRAWFO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I too live in Van Buren and have lived in Crawford Co for nearly 60 years. I can remember the strawberries and peaches that grew here. Still a good place. Dora is a very quite little community, now just next door to Van Buren.

_Crawford County, Arkansas Populated Places_ (http://www.hometownlocator.com/DisplayCountyFeatures.cfm?FeatureType=populated%20place&SCFIPS=05033) includes a Greenwood Junction in or near Ft. Smith

There was at one time when Dora was called Greenwood Junction two schools, one called Blue Mouse and the other I believe was called Scott School, not sure of that one. rozie10263 <rozie10263@aol.com> wrote: I am not sure of exactly when the depot was closed in Dora but a relative of mine who is 98 who still lives in Dora, told me "it was at Greenwood Junction behind the ole home place" which runs parallel to I-40 (East and west). She said they went to town (Van Buren) once a week to sell their crops. It told it was difficult to get down log town hill (in Van Buren) The Post Office was ran in the store which was opened in 1888 in Dora (ran by relatives) it resided in the store that is now called Squash Blossom. Rozie -------Original Message------- From: WallDuncan@aol.com Date: 01/12/07 08:41:01 To: arcrawfo@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ARCRAWFO] Alma or Dora? 'Scuse me for horning in 'Dora' at the turn of 1900 would have been reached by a different rail line than Alma, probably transfer at Van Buren. My 1910 map of Arkansas shows Dora just northwest of Van Buren.... Of course the two are not so far apart that travel by horseback or buggy or stage line would not have been possible.. the roads were mostly pretty minimal, and many places we think of as 'towns' would really have been just walk-in Post-Office General Stores, possibly accompanied by other stores, railway or stage stops--the railroads in those times still made a lot of local stops, and those old folks used them for travel where we would just jump in the car--The physical framework of those times was so different from ours...I am told that the nearest RR scheduled stop is now at Tulsa, out of state and over the horizon. Both Dora and Alma appear on current road maps.This is county-government territory, of course, so you can't really think 'town'....Also, no daily delivery of mail--they would walk in to the PO, maybe some distance away, and maybe not every week. Also, maybe no 'address' as we think of it now. And the 'Frisco' line was a kind of octopus corporation that kept taking over more and more separate local RR's, so you have to keep close track of which RR and at what time....Steamboat traffic on the river was still alive, and there were probably a lot of small local one-man ferry operations that you wouldn't be able to find on any map...now or then Duncan the Librarian _WallDuncan@AOL.COM_ (mailto:WallDuncan@AOL.COM) Yarmouth Port, MA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ARCRAWFO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ARCRAWFO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for remembering me, but you all don't have to throw my E-dress into every exchange of notes...lay back a bit on poinding away on those 'reply' and 'forward' buttons...my family had only one real generation in Crawford County, and my grandfather Philos Stratton Jones seems to have gone off to college at Pea Ridge up in Benton County, about as soon as his family moved here from Kentucky, and after his studies there and 'reading for law' with some lawyer, went on over into Texas and I.T. to make his living. Your letters about various tree and bush fruit crops seem to be on the money, and I believe I have read in that old history of Crawford that fruit crops were the money makers early in Crawford days, especially after the passing of the high profitability of slave-worked cotton crops.... Duncan Wall (Duncan the Librarian) Yarmouth Port, MA _WallDuncan@AOL.COM_ (mailto:WallDuncan@AOL.COM)

In a message dated 1/12/2007 1:42:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, ROZIE10263@aol.com writes: In the 1880's to early 1900's my husbands family had a big business in strawberries & apples in Rudy, which is just north of Alma. farming was the way of life with just a few that were preachers, clerks and a couple drs. Rozie Rozie, My mother Mabel FINE ANDERSON told me that her father, Peter Pinkney FINE, and her uncle George FINE both raised strawberries, also. She was born in 1921 and remembered picking strawberries as a child. She also taught me that any peach that wasn't raised in Crawford County or Washington County wasn't worth eating! <grin> Kaye Larrabee Lubbock, TX

Hey Don, No I don;t live in Alma but I go through there from time to time. None of those names sound familiar yet in my data base. The Fordham's I have are Ada,Almeda, Albert, Alice, Alan, Almira, Andrew, Ann, Archibald, Althia, Augustus, Benjamin, Beulah, Calvin, Carrie, Caty,Christopher, Claudius David, Della Elbert, Edward, Eleanor, Emma, Ernest, Estella, Eugena, Eunice Fanny, Florence, Gertrude, Guy, Henry, Hugh, Iola, Ira, Ivey, Jefferson, Jesse, John Lawerence, Leah, Lois, Lucille, Madge, Margaret, Marsha, Martha, Mary, Montgomery, Nancy, Oscar, Pattie, Penelope, Ralph,Roscoe, Sally, Samuel, Sidney, Steve, Susan Tina, Virginia, Walter,William, Woodrow The Cox's I have are Addie, Andrew, Bill, Della, E. Lee, Edna, Elizabeth, Helen, J. T., John, Maria, Nita, Obryant Sarah, Susan, Thelma Wilbur, William, Wofford Surname partial search List Rozell (various spellings), Blakely, Bonner, Burrow/s, Cheary, Chitwood, Clanton, DeLung, Hamilton, Hammack/ock, Harrison, Hopkins, Marcum, Osborn, Oxford, Pierce, Scott, I work on genealogy everyday except the Days that don't end in a Y Ü _Rozell Surname_ (http://hometown.aol.com/rozie10263/myhomepage/Rozell.html) In a message dated 1/12/2007 11:23:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, drrman@swbell.net writes: Rozie it was Roy Brazell, wife Mayme. Do you live in Alma? Cox, Aunt Ruth I think was in Perryton, Texas at passing???Lived with daughter. Clinton Fordham, ring a bell??? dr ----- Original Message ----- From: "rozie10263" <rozie10263@aol.com> To: <arcrawfo@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [ARCRAWFO] Alma or Dora " DON" > >

Rozie it was Roy Brazell, wife Mayme. Do you live in Alma? Cox, Aunt Ruth I think was in Perryton, Texas at passing???Lived with daughter. Clinton Fordham, ring a bell??? dr ----- Original Message ----- From: "rozie10263" <rozie10263@aol.com> To: <arcrawfo@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [ARCRAWFO] Alma or Dora " DON" > > > > > Don, > > Yes I done that a couple of times and need to get back over there to see > her. Taping & or using a cam corder is the way to go. > > Sounds like our people and your probably crossed paths. You are mentioning > the same places that mine lived or still live in. > > As a matter of fact I have some surnames of Cox (not all from here in > Arkansas) > > not much info but one that married a Hammack/ock, and two that married a > Fordham, then a Burrow, a Hopkins, a Chitwood and a Delung. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > Rozie > > Surnames I am searching > > Rozell (various spellings), Blakely, Bonner, Burrow/s, Cheary, Chitwood, > Clanton, DeLung, Hamilton, Hammack/ock, Harrison, Hopkins, Marcum, Osborn, > Oxford, Pierce, Scott, Tapp > > http://hometown.aol.com/rozie10263/myhomepage/Rozell.html > > http://krozell.avonrepresentative.com/ > > > > Rozie, > > If you have a relative thats 98, you better get a tape recorder and get all > > the information you can on it! Ray Brazell (sp) my Uncle also bought and > > sold produce at Van Buren. Aunt T, Thelma (Mills) > > Mills, Phillips age 97, pass in Oct. 06. Snow descendent!!! I had a Aunt, > > Aunt Ruth Cox, one Son and one Daughter lived at the top of the hill next to > > store on East side of 59, I think this is Log Town Hill. Have a Aunt > > living in Lawrence, Ks. with Sister, age 95, Sophia Ellen (Mills) Gregg, > > both Aunts were from Dripping Springs, Natural Dam area, grew up on Snow > > Farm which they say was right on Okla./Ark. state line?? I am going to try > > and get all the materials Aunt T, had and give to genealogy Alma, Ark. Don > > McGee > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ARCRAWFO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/07 3:33 PM > >

Don, Yes I done that a couple of times and need to get back over there to see her. Taping & or using a cam corder is the way to go. Sounds like our people and your probably crossed paths. You are mentioning the same places that mine lived or still live in. As a matter of fact I have some surnames of Cox (not all from here in Arkansas) not much info but one that married a Hammack/ock, and two that married a Fordham, then a Burrow, a Hopkins, a Chitwood and a Delung. Sincerely, Rozie Surnames I am searching Rozell (various spellings), Blakely, Bonner, Burrow/s, Cheary, Chitwood, Clanton, DeLung, Hamilton, Hammack/ock, Harrison, Hopkins, Marcum, Osborn, Oxford, Pierce, Scott, Tapp http://hometown.aol.com/rozie10263/myhomepage/Rozell.html http://krozell.avonrepresentative.com/ Rozie, If you have a relative thats 98, you better get a tape recorder and get all the information you can on it! Ray Brazell (sp) my Uncle also bought and sold produce at Van Buren. Aunt T, Thelma (Mills) Mills, Phillips age 97, pass in Oct. 06. Snow descendent!!! I had a Aunt, Aunt Ruth Cox, one Son and one Daughter lived at the top of the hill next to store on East side of 59, I think this is Log Town Hill. Have a Aunt living in Lawrence, Ks. with Sister, age 95, Sophia Ellen (Mills) Gregg, both Aunts were from Dripping Springs, Natural Dam area, grew up on Snow Farm which they say was right on Okla./Ark. state line?? I am going to try and get all the materials Aunt T, had and give to genealogy Alma, Ark. Don McGee

Rozie, If you have a relative thats 98, you better get a tape recorder and get all the information you can on it! Ray Brazell (sp) my Uncle also bought and sold produce at Van Buren. Aunt T, Thelma (Mills) Mills, Phillips age 97, pass in Oct. 06. Snow descendent!!! I had a Aunt, Aunt Ruth Cox, one Son and one Daughter lived at the top of the hill next to store on East side of 59, I think this is Log Town Hill. Have a Aunt living in Lawrence, Ks. with Sister, age 95, Sophia Ellen (Mills) Gregg, both Aunts were from Dripping Springs, Natural Dam area, grew up on Snow Farm which they say was right on Okla./Ark. state line?? I am going to try and get all the materials Aunt T, had and give to genealogy Alma, Ark. Don McGee ----- Original Message ----- From: "rozie10263" <rozie10263@aol.com> To: <arcrawfo@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [ARCRAWFO] Alma or Dora? > I am not sure of exactly when the depot was closed in Dora but a relative of > mine who is 98 who still lives in Dora, told me "it was at Greenwood > Junction behind the ole home place" which runs parallel to I-40 (East and > west). She said they went to town (Van Buren) once a week to sell their > crops. It told it was difficult to get down log town hill (in Van Buren) > The Post Office was ran in the store which was opened in 1888 in Dora (ran > by relatives) it resided in the store that is now called Squash Blossom. > > Rozie > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: WallDuncan@aol.com > > Date: 01/12/07 08:41:01 > > To: arcrawfo@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [ARCRAWFO] Alma or Dora? > > > > 'Scuse me for horning in > > > > 'Dora' at the turn of 1900 would have been reached by a different rail line > > than Alma, probably transfer at Van Buren. My 1910 map of Arkansas shows > Dora > > just northwest of Van Buren.... Of course the two are not so far apart that > > travel by horseback or buggy or stage line would not have been possible.. > the > > roads were mostly pretty minimal, and many places we think of as 'towns' > > would really have been just walk-in Post-Office General Stores, possibly > > accompanied by other stores, railway or stage stops--the railroads in those > times > > still made a lot of local stops, and those old folks used them for travel > where > > we would just jump in the car--The physical framework of those times was so > > different from ours...I am told that the nearest RR scheduled stop is now at > > Tulsa, out of state and over the horizon. Both Dora and Alma appear on > current > > road maps.This is county-government territory, of course, so you can't > > really think 'town'....Also, no daily delivery of mail--they would walk in > to the > > PO, maybe some distance away, and maybe not every week. Also, maybe no > > 'address' as we think of it now. And the 'Frisco' line was a kind of > octopus > > corporation that kept taking over more and more separate local RR's, so > you have > > to keep close track of which RR and at what time....Steamboat traffic on > the > > river was still alive, and there were probably a lot of small local one-man > > ferry operations that you wouldn't be able to find on any map...now or then > > > > Duncan the Librarian > > > > _WallDuncan@AOL.COM_ (mailto:WallDuncan@AOL.COM) > > Yarmouth Port, MA > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ARCRAWFO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ARCRAWFO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/07 3:33 PM > >

Thank God for the long lives of our elders, and for the good sense to listen to them.. Duncan the Librarian Yarmouth Port, MA