According to www.familysearch.org the dates of birth of the boys are James, born 29 August, baptised 8 September 1827, Airlie William, born 11 June, baptised 21 June 1835, Forfar Alexander, born 17 May, baptised 29 May 1842, Forfar Catherine's baptism doesn't seem to be in the records at all. How do you know that she actually existed? I see that the family were living in Lappydub Park in Forfar in 1841: William, 40; Agnes, 35; James, 13 and William, 5. (The Lappie Dub was just across St James' Road from my parents' and my grandmother's houses; we could see it from our front windows. It was all demolished some time in the 1950s or maybe 1960s. Its official name was St James' Terrace) The absence of Catherine, who would have been about seven, suggests that she probably died in early childhood. In 1881 grandson William was living at 19 Ferry Road, Dundee, aged 30, with Mary, 25, Margt, 7, Alfred, 6 and William, 10 months. (That is a very long gap between Alfred and William - there could have been two more children who died young.) Assuming grandson William's age in the 1881 census to be correct, he would have been born in between 3 April 1850 and 2 April 1851 (In 1881 the census was taken on the night of 3 April). So he must have been conceived no later than early July 1850. Son William was born on 11 June 1835. In early July 1850 he would have been just 15. It is possible that he fathered grandson William, but the overwhelming likelihood is that son James was the father. If grandson William was illegitimate, there may be a record of his parents in the minutes of the Glamis Kirk Session. If these survive, they should be in the National Archives of Scotland www.nas.gov.uk William Lawson and Mary Keir were married in 1873. You can get an image of the marriage certificate from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk at modest cost. This should tell you the full names of all their parents, including their mothers' maiden surnames. As for Agnes' family online, the golden rule is, never believe anything you find online. Use the online information as a guide to doing your own research. I am sure everyone on this List could tell you horror stories of fictitious trees with non-existent people, children being attributed to the wrong parents and people becoming parents years after they have died! Having said that, I note that her listing on MyHeritage refers to her son James, but you have to subscribe to MyHeritage to view more than the basics. Ancestry also has some references to her, suggesting that her parents were James Volume and Catherine Neil, and that she was born in 1806. FamilySearch says that the daughter of James Volume and Catherine Neil was baptised on 13 January 1805. As the latter date is from the Latter Day Saints' indexing project, it's likely to be reliable. Hope this helps. Anne

Dear Anne, First of all, thank you very much for all the time it took you to respond to my email. I'll answer your questions as best I can! First of all, you prompted me today to go onto Scotland's people. They made a fair amount of money off of me today, but I am happy with the answers I got for the most part. Catherine's baptism is not there, you are correct. The only reason I know she exists is from an old hand written note that another family member has. Secondly, when I received some of the documents today, there was a child born between James and William. William's baptism record said he was third born. What happened to that child is a mystery. I'm looking forward to looking for Lappie Dub Park one day. Thank you for the information since that is a local's term for the place now. I'm slightly jealous that you looked out your window onto it and I've never seen it! One day for me for sure!!! I ordered the marriage record for Willilam Lawson and Mary Keir today. William was son of James occupation Journeyman Joiner - deceased. That answers that question. It made no mention of whether or not Elizabeth (nee Crabb) was deceased or not, so she was probably still alive. This William, his wife Mary Keir and children did stay in Dundee. I am eager to trace them for any members of family still there existing. It won't be easy. There is nothing on ancestry.com. I feel comfortable saying that Agnes Volume is the daughter of James Volume and Catherine Neil. James and Catherine also had a son David that named one of his children Alexander Lawson Volume. It's circumstantial, but good enough for me. All things do seem to tie to James Volume. Now the fun of trying to trace everyone starts! Sincerely, Sandy -----Original Message----- From: Anne Burgess <anne.burgess@btinternet.com> To: angus <angus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2013 5:48 am Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Lawson and Volume family - new to the list According to www.familysearch.org the dates of birth of the boys are James, born 29 August, baptised 8 September 1827, Airlie William, born 11 June, baptised 21 June 1835, Forfar Alexander, born 17 May, baptised 29 May 1842, Forfar Catherine's baptism doesn't seem to be in the records at all. How do you know that she actually existed? I see that the family were living in Lappydub Park in Forfar in 1841: William, 40; Agnes, 35; James, 13 and William, 5. (The Lappie Dub was just across St James' Road from my parents' and my grandmother's houses; we could see it from our front windows. It was all demolished some time in the 1950s or maybe 1960s. Its official name was St James' Terrace) The absence of Catherine, who would have been about seven, suggests that she probably died in early childhood. In 1881 grandson William was living at 19 Ferry Road, Dundee, aged 30, with Mary, 25, Margt, 7, Alfred, 6 and William, 10 months. (That is a very long gap between Alfred and William - there could have been two more children who died young.) Assuming grandson William's age in the 1881 census to be correct, he would have been born in between 3 April 1850 and 2 April 1851 (In 1881 the census was taken on the night of 3 April). So he must have been conceived no later than early July 1850. Son William was born on 11 June 1835. In early July 1850 he would have been just 15. It is possible that he fathered grandson William, but the overwhelming likelihood is that son James was the father. If grandson William was illegitimate, there may be a record of his parents in the minutes of the Glamis Kirk Session. If these survive, they should be in the National Archives of Scotland www.nas.gov.uk William Lawson and Mary Keir were married in 1873. You can get an image of the marriage certificate from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk at modest cost. This should tell you the full names of all their parents, including their mothers' maiden surnames. As for Agnes' family online, the golden rule is, never believe anything you find online. Use the online information as a guide to doing your own research. I am sure everyone on this List could tell you horror stories of fictitious trees with non-existent people, children being attributed to the wrong parents and people becoming parents years after they have died! Having said that, I note that her listing on MyHeritage refers to her son James, but you have to subscribe to MyHeritage to view more than the basics. Ancestry also has some references to her, suggesting that her parents were James Volume and Catherine Neil, and that she was born in 1806. FamilySearch says that the daughter of James Volume and Catherine Neil was baptised on 13 January 1805. As the latter date is from the Latter Day Saints' indexing project, it's likely to be reliable. Hope this helps. Anne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> Catherine's baptism is not there, you are correct. The only > reason I know she exists is from an > old hand written note that another family member has. Fair enough. > Secondly, when I received some of the documents today, there > was a child born between James > and William. William's > baptism record said he was third born. What happened to that > child is a > mystery. Not at all. James was born in 1827, and William in 1835. So clearly the missing child is Catherine, who you say was born in 1833. And unless you have good evidence to the contrary, it is likely that she died before the 1841 census, as she is not with her family or, as far as I can see from the transcription at FreeCEN, with anyone else nearby. > I ordered the marriage record for William Lawson and Mary Keir > today. William was son of > James occupation Journeyman Joiner - deceased. That answers > that question. Yes. It also narrows down the search for him. You should be able to find William and Elizabeth in the 1861 census in Dundee, and the original will tell you whether James had already died, and whether there were any other siblings. If James was alive in 1861, there should be a death certificate. > It made no mention of whether or not Elizabeth (nee Crabb) was > deceased or not, so she was > probably still alive. I see that James Lawson and Elisabeth Crabb were married in Glamis on 5 January 1847. Elizabeth Lawson or Crabb died in Dundee in 1897, aged 73. So she would have been born in 1823/4. Her death certificate should tell you the full names of her parents. I have thoughts about that, but there is no point speculating unncessarily. > This William, his wife Mary Keir and children did stay in > Dundee. I am eager to trace them for > any members of family still there existing. It won't be easy. > There is nothing on ancestry.com. Probably a good thing. You won't be misled by wrong information. > I feel comfortable saying that Agnes Volume is the daughter of > James Volume and Catherine > Neil. James and Catherine also had a son David that named one > of his children Alexander > Lawson Volume. It's circumstantial, but good enough for me. > All things do seem to tie to James > Volume. Yes. Also that she named her first daughter Catherine. Happy hunting! Anne