The Tay Salmon Fisheries Company still exists, and has offices at Perth. It owned commercial salmon fishings as far away as Lunan Bay http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1964027, where until the late 20th century they employed a man to work the stake nets on the beach. I well remember the last of them, David Nicoll, and his father Will Nicoll, who worked for the Company before him, and who lived in a company-owned tied cottage next door to ours. However the company seems to have withdrawn from Lunan Bay and the nets are now worked by others. See http://www.taysalmon.co.uk/history.php . What I don't know is whethere the Company actually owned all the fishings on the Tay estuary. Before the founding of the Company in 1899, the salmon fishing was, I think, mainly in the hands of the riparian owners. The valuation rolls list separately the proprietors of fishing rights, I do know a little about the Earl of Southesk's fishings at Lunan Bay. He built new houses at Ethie Haven on the south side of the bay in 1852, and brought in salmon fishers from Benholm and Bervie. Many of them worked and lived there only during the commercial salmon fishing season, and presumably returned to their homes for the winter, but one or two families had lived there permanently since at the least the 18th century. Around 1900 (which, concidentally or not, is when the Tay Salmon Fisheries Company was formed) the estate began to let the houses as holiday homes, and the fishings were worked by a company from Montrose for a number of years. Later on they were worked directly by the Tay Salmon Fisheries Company, and the houses were sold to a local farmer who, in 1938, sold them on individually to the people who had been in the habit of renting them. I am not sure what the relationship is between the Tay Salmon Fisheries Company and the Tay Salmon Fishing Company, which has its registered office in Spalding, Lincolnshire, England. I note that the website of the former was designed by a company based in Lincolnshire, which doesn't look like a concidence. There are basically two methods of netting salmon. The method your ancestors used will depend on where exactly they were working. One method is to set up fixed nets on the shore, projecting out to sea like an arrow. Salmon swim parallel to the shore, and when they encounter an obstruction they turn to seaward. When they do this at a fixed net they swim into a bag at the apex of the arrowhead and are trapped. At low tide the fishermen come along and empty the bag. On a beach like Lunan Bay, one man can do all the necessary work, but if the net is in deeper water it needs a boat and a small crew. The other method is used in rivers, and requires a long net, a boat and a crew of several men. One end of the net is held on the river bank, and the rest of the net is loaded on the boat, which is then rowed round in the big circle, paying out the net as it goes. When the boat reaches the bank again, the crew start to haul in the net until they can collect all the fish caught inside the circle. This method was used on the River Spey, but the angling interests effectively bought this out and it finally closed down in 1993 after 210 years. HTH Anne

Anne: Thanks for this info on fishing and the Tay. Very interesting! I have Nichols ancestors (Mary Nichols who m. John Hay, Guthrie, Forfar 1880). Their daughter, Helen Hay m. Wm Innes, 1802 Forfar. I'll be sure to look at your links in more detail. How incredible that you knew some of these people from the Tay Samlon Fisheries Company! It is my POWRIES that I believe to be "salmon fishers." John Powrie, b. ~ 1814, Errol son of Adam Powrie and Elspeth Rae; son John Powrie (b. 1833) m. Jane Haddon Innes lived in Dundee, jute worker; (tenter jute; heating engineer, etc.) REF: John Powrie, "salmon fisher" = occupation given at time of death of son, John Powrie (1833-1919), by dau. Georgina Powrie D'all. Anne: You refer to these "valuation rolls." Could you elaborate as to what they are/were, and where I might find them today? (ie what jurisdiction in Forfar, Angus, Dundee or ....? might have these "valuation rolls"? that I might contact for more info?) In the US, property rights/land were recorded at the County Level and records are (typcially) in the County Courthouse (earlier records (pre 1800, MAY be at a historical society/library)). I don't know the jurisdictional equivalent in Angus. (And from earlier posting you can see I was "confused" about Dundee in Angus vs. Forfar because of my postings, which led to a very detailed discussion between you, Bruce, Gordon and others about this and the Council and more modern jurisdictional control.) Thanks also for the elaboration on the two types of fishing -- single, land-based vs. use of ships. I believe my Powries were involved in salmon fishing using small vessels. (Family stories: one of the GF of my GM was a "ship captain", but this is my only clue to ship vs. land/net fishing). And, that Mary Powrie Schacht (Queen of Powriedom :-)!) has said that the Powries of Errol were salmon fishers on the Tay, and had "bothies" where they stayed while on extended fishing trips. My John Powre, salmon fisher, would have been involved in salmon fishing in the 1830-1860s. (Although in 1841, 1851 Census was always a weaver, High Street, Errol, Perth, Angus. Thanks again, Anne for your help -- it's always appreciated! Sincerely, Marilyn US (WDC) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Burgess" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Fishing Rights on the Tay > The Tay Salmon Fisheries Company still exists, and has offices > at Perth. It owned commercial salmon > fishings as far away as Lunan Bay > http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1964027, where until the late > 20th century they employed a man to work the stake nets on the > beach. I well remember the last of them, David Nicoll, and his > father Will Nicoll, who worked for the Company before him, and > who lived in a company-owned tied cottage next door to ours. > However the company seems to have withdrawn from Lunan Bay and > the nets are now worked by others. See > http://www.taysalmon.co.uk/history.php . What I don't know is > whethere the Company actually owned all the fishings on the Tay > estuary. > > Before the founding of the Company in 1899, the salmon fishing > was, I think, mainly in the hands of the riparian owners. The > valuation rolls list separately the proprietors of fishing > rights, > > I do know a little about the Earl of Southesk's fishings at > Lunan Bay. He built new houses at Ethie Haven on the south side > of the bay in 1852, and brought in salmon fishers from Benholm > and Bervie. Many of them worked and lived there only during the > commercial salmon fishing season, and presumably returned to > their homes for the winter, but one or two families had lived > there permanently since at the least the 18th century. Around > 1900 (which, concidentally or not, is when the Tay Salmon > Fisheries Company was formed) the estate began to let the houses > as holiday homes, and the fishings were worked by a company from > Montrose for a number of years. Later on they were worked > directly by the Tay Salmon Fisheries Company, and the houses > were sold to a local farmer who, in 1938, sold them on > individually to the people who had been in the habit of renting > them. > > I am not sure what the relationship is between the Tay Salmon > Fisheries Company and the Tay > Salmon Fishing Company, which has its registered office in > Spalding, Lincolnshire, England. I note that the website of the > former was designed by a company based in Lincolnshire, which > doesn't look like a concidence. > > There are basically two methods of netting salmon. The method > your ancestors used will depend on where exactly they were > working. > > One method is to set up fixed nets on the shore, projecting out > to sea like an arrow. Salmon swim parallel to the shore, and > when they encounter an obstruction they turn to seaward. When > they do this at a fixed net they swim into a bag at the apex of > the arrowhead and are trapped. At low tide the fishermen come > along and empty the bag. On a beach like Lunan Bay, one man can > do all the necessary work, but if the net is in deeper water it > needs a boat and a small crew. > > The other method is used in rivers, and requires a long net, a > boat and a crew of several men. One end of the net is held on > the river bank, and the rest of the net is loaded on the boat, > which is then rowed round in the big circle, paying out the net > as it goes. When the boat reaches the bank again, the crew start > to haul in the net until they can collect all the fish caught > inside the circle. This method was used on the River Spey, but > the angling interests effectively bought this out and it finally > closed down in 1993 after 210 years. > > HTH > > Anne > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message