Hi Marilyn, I was a bit confused by your references to "Westgate", Dundee especially as I had, before retirement, driven a delivery van in Dundee and had never heard of "Westgate". A modern map shows a Westgate medical practise away out about Lochee/Ninewells Hospital which, in the 1820s, was out in the country. Reference to "Lost Dundee" (McKean, Whatley, Baxter, Birlinn Ltd, 2008, ISBN 978 1 84158 562 8 / 978 1 84158 815 5), an architectural history of Dundee, makes several references to the "West Port" (which was at the West end of the old Overgate ... now long demolished, rebuilt, demolished and rebuilt again! This was the route out of town towards Coupar Angus rather than the more apparent "west" road along the Tay estuary to Perth. There were some desirable houses in that area about 1825. Have a look at a Google map using the postcode DD8 5EP as a reference point. Using "street level" you can see the Globe bar and maybe even the West Port Gallery. This is the area I understand as the "West Port" which is shown as such on Ordnance Survey and other maps of Dundee as far back as the 1820s. You can see such maps on www.nls.uk , follow the links to digital maps. Cheers, Bruce D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Find Your Family!" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:32 AM Subject: [ANGUS] Where was West Gate, 1820s? >I see several businesses today that are in Westgate, Dundee that are near >Ninewells Hospital. If someone were "of Westgate" or had a shop "in >Westgate" in 1822, 1823, what area would this have been (ie what were the >streets/cross streets)? Where might I find out more about the history of >this section of the city? > > My Innes ancestors -- William and Helen Hay were in this area in 1822. > William and son William were nailers/nail makers. Father William was also > a change keeper (kept an inn or public house). Mother Helen Hay had a > shop there (1823). (Ref: Court papers regarding trials of William Innes > and son William Innes, 1822 and 1823, Forfar). > > Thank you. > > Marilyn Arnold > WDC > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3898 - Release Date: 09/15/11 >

Of course you were all confused. I meant West Port. so sorry! I should not post when I'm tired (like 1:30 am, as I did, oops). But, as always, you figured out what I meant ... so thank you for the references and I'll be sure to check out the link. Fascinating. Nice to know there were several desirable homes in that area in 1825 (from Lost Dundee? or another source). Don't know the status of my Innes family. It they had money, they may not have acquired it by legal means and likely lost it, given that father and son were both accused and tried for passing forged notes. Ahem. (Details are in the Court papers to be requested from the Archives which are $$$!) I see the 1821 Ordinance Survey. They must have been in Dundee by then as these illegal activities began in 1821 and the father was given a lighter sentence because of his references in the community, so this would suggest he'd been there a while. West Port seems to be at the intersection of Overgate with "Burn Witch Know" extending to the NW and Hawk? Hill to the SW, Brown Street heading almost directly N. Very interesting! Love old maps! I'll try to see if Lost Dundee is in the LibCongress. Thanks for the suggestion. Thank you very much, Bruce! Marilyn WDC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Dorward" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Where was West Gate, 1820s? > Hi Marilyn, > > I was a bit confused by your references to "Westgate", Dundee especially > as > I had, before retirement, driven a delivery van in Dundee and had never > heard of "Westgate". > > A modern map shows a Westgate medical practise away out about > Lochee/Ninewells Hospital which, in the 1820s, was out in the country. > > Reference to "Lost Dundee" (McKean, Whatley, Baxter, Birlinn Ltd, 2008, > ISBN 978 1 84158 562 8 / 978 1 84158 815 5), an architectural history of > Dundee, makes several references to the "West Port" (which was at the West > end of the old Overgate ... now long demolished, rebuilt, demolished and > rebuilt again! This was the route out of town towards Coupar Angus rather > than the more apparent "west" road along the Tay estuary to Perth. There > were some desirable houses in that area about 1825. > > Have a look at a Google map using the postcode DD8 5EP as a reference > point. > Using "street level" you can see the Globe bar and maybe even the West > Port > Gallery. This is the area I understand as the "West Port" which is shown > as > such on Ordnance Survey and other maps of Dundee as far back as the 1820s. > You can see such maps on www.nls.uk , follow the links to digital maps. > > Cheers, > Bruce D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Find Your Family!" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:32 AM > Subject: [ANGUS] Where was West Gate, 1820s? > > >>I see several businesses today that are in Westgate, Dundee that are near >>Ninewells Hospital. If someone were "of Westgate" or had a shop "in >>Westgate" in 1822, 1823, what area would this have been (ie what were the >>streets/cross streets)? Where might I find out more about the history of >>this section of the city? >> >> My Innes ancestors -- William and Helen Hay were in this area in 1822. >> William and son William were nailers/nail makers. Father William was >> also >> a change keeper (kept an inn or public house). Mother Helen Hay had a >> shop there (1823). (Ref: Court papers regarding trials of William Innes >> and son William Innes, 1822 and 1823, Forfar). >> >> Thank you. >> >> Marilyn Arnold >> WDC >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3898 - Release Date: 09/15/11 >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

On the other hand, whilst I would probably agree with Bruce that it is more likely to be West Port that Westgate, if you are truly looking for where today's Westgate was in about 1822, then you should look at this map http://maps.nls.uk/atlas/thomson/view/?rsid=74400151&sid=74400150&mid=516&pd esc=Bottom section And zoom in until you can see the small detail, positioning the map so that you can see the word 'T A Y' in the lower part of your screen. Directly above the 'A' of TAY, you are looking for an area labelled Menzies Hill. This is to the west of Dundee and north of Invergowrie. Very roughly, that is where Westgate is today. P "Here's tae us! Wha's like us? Damn few! - an' they're a' deid!" Old Scots Toast Check out my website www.genesontheweb.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce Dorward Sent: 15 September 2011 22:26 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Where was West Gate, 1820s? Hi Marilyn, I was a bit confused by your references to "Westgate", Dundee especially as I had, before retirement, driven a delivery van in Dundee and had never heard of "Westgate". A modern map shows a Westgate medical practise away out about Lochee/Ninewells Hospital which, in the 1820s, was out in the country. Reference to "Lost Dundee" (McKean, Whatley, Baxter, Birlinn Ltd, 2008, ISBN 978 1 84158 562 8 / 978 1 84158 815 5), an architectural history of Dundee, makes several references to the "West Port" (which was at the West end of the old Overgate ... now long demolished, rebuilt, demolished and rebuilt again! This was the route out of town towards Coupar Angus rather than the more apparent "west" road along the Tay estuary to Perth. There were some desirable houses in that area about 1825. Have a look at a Google map using the postcode DD8 5EP as a reference point. Using "street level" you can see the Globe bar and maybe even the West Port Gallery. This is the area I understand as the "West Port" which is shown as such on Ordnance Survey and other maps of Dundee as far back as the 1820s. You can see such maps on www.nls.uk , follow the links to digital maps. Cheers, Bruce D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Find Your Family!" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:32 AM Subject: [ANGUS] Where was West Gate, 1820s? >I see several businesses today that are in Westgate, Dundee that are near >Ninewells Hospital. If someone were "of Westgate" or had a shop "in >Westgate" in 1822, 1823, what area would this have been (ie what were the >streets/cross streets)? Where might I find out more about the history of >this section of the city? > > My Innes ancestors -- William and Helen Hay were in this area in 1822. > William and son William were nailers/nail makers. Father William was also > a change keeper (kept an inn or public house). Mother Helen Hay had a > shop there (1823). (Ref: Court papers regarding trials of William Innes > and son William Innes, 1822 and 1823, Forfar). > > Thank you. > > Marilyn Arnold > WDC > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3898 - Release Date: 09/15/11 > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3898 - Release Date: 09/15/11

I'll check this out as well, but once Bruce said West Port, I recognized my error, as that was the name I'd seen in other documents. Thanks for the suggestion! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Carson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Where was West Gate, 1820s? > On the other hand, whilst I would probably agree with Bruce that it is > more > likely to be West Port that Westgate, if you are truly looking for where > today's Westgate was in about 1822, then you should look at this map > > http://maps.nls.uk/atlas/thomson/view/?rsid=74400151&sid=74400150&mid=516&pd > esc=Bottom section > > And zoom in until you can see the small detail, positioning the map so > that > you can see the word 'T A Y' in the lower part of your screen. Directly > above the 'A' of TAY, you are looking for an area labelled Menzies Hill. > This is to the west of Dundee and north of Invergowrie. Very roughly, that > is where Westgate is today. > > P > > "Here's tae us! Wha's like us? Damn few! - an' they're a' deid!" Old Scots > Toast > > > Check out my website www.genesontheweb.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Bruce Dorward > Sent: 15 September 2011 22:26 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Where was West Gate, 1820s? > > Hi Marilyn, > > I was a bit confused by your references to "Westgate", Dundee especially > as > I had, before retirement, driven a delivery van in Dundee and had never > heard of "Westgate". > > A modern map shows a Westgate medical practise away out about > Lochee/Ninewells Hospital which, in the 1820s, was out in the country. > > Reference to "Lost Dundee" (McKean, Whatley, Baxter, Birlinn Ltd, 2008, > ISBN 978 1 84158 562 8 / 978 1 84158 815 5), an architectural history of > Dundee, makes several references to the "West Port" (which was at the West > end of the old Overgate ... now long demolished, rebuilt, demolished and > rebuilt again! This was the route out of town towards Coupar Angus rather > than the more apparent "west" road along the Tay estuary to Perth. There > were some desirable houses in that area about 1825. > > Have a look at a Google map using the postcode DD8 5EP as a reference > point. > > Using "street level" you can see the Globe bar and maybe even the West > Port > Gallery. This is the area I understand as the "West Port" which is shown > as > such on Ordnance Survey and other maps of Dundee as far back as the 1820s. > You can see such maps on www.nls.uk , follow the links to digital maps. > > Cheers, > Bruce D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Find Your Family!" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:32 AM > Subject: [ANGUS] Where was West Gate, 1820s? > > >>I see several businesses today that are in Westgate, Dundee that are near >>Ninewells Hospital. If someone were "of Westgate" or had a shop "in >>Westgate" in 1822, 1823, what area would this have been (ie what were the >>streets/cross streets)? Where might I find out more about the history of >>this section of the city? >> >> My Innes ancestors -- William and Helen Hay were in this area in 1822. >> William and son William were nailers/nail makers. Father William was >> also > >> a change keeper (kept an inn or public house). Mother Helen Hay had a >> shop there (1823). (Ref: Court papers regarding trials of William Innes >> and son William Innes, 1822 and 1823, Forfar). >> >> Thank you. >> >> Marilyn Arnold >> WDC >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3898 - Release Date: 09/15/11 >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3898 - Release Date: 09/15/11 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message