This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: maryschacht Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.2.2.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I've found many of mine follow that tradition, but I use it as a working theory only. my great grandfather, had three Roberts' and two James' were as his siblings. I thought at first the early ones died another was given the same fore name but all lived to have wives and children. Bet holiday's were interesting but one was nicknamed bobby, another Robin. these boys ended up marrying and 6 of 10 children all had sons named the same. each family had a eldest son Robert. Don't make any assumptions, and get a copy of Scottish forenames, and Customs and traditions, cradle to grave. I had one child named John Stewart Powrie, who I could not figure out in their lineage, then read that if a minister was christening that name, he'd name it for himself. sure enough the minister was a john Stewart. I may make an educated guess, but if you don't have documents enough to use as genealogical standard of proof. http://www.bcgcertification.org/resources/standard.html found here, try using a name pattern, if parts of it fit, but make a copy of your database as a working theory, then when you are convinced it is correct, change the working theory to proved Gedcom, and erase the one that's wrong. Dundee is the only parish I know that has a column, left to enter the three godparents names,and their relation to child. (relation to child being christened) Naturally it was often left blank. established practice, protocal(regulation or law) and good guess are not! But you must start somewhere. You are writing to Patrick in Ohio, also, and I think it's solid assistance. Going online, is not research by going to the country oneself and doing "boots on the ground" with notebook.(paper or electronic) Merry Christmas, Mary in cold, wet Oregon Dundee Royal Infirmary, Dundee : details Go to: Name | Administration | Status/Type | Other info | Records Name Present name Dundee Royal Infirmary Address Barrack Road Dundee DD1 9ND (Since 1855) Previous location King Street 1798-1855 Foundation Year 1798 Closed Yes Closure year 1998 mary in oregon Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

A thread on the Message Board for Angus leads me to ask out of curiosity - how many of your Scots families follow the classic Scots naming pattern? My view has always been that you should use ancestry to deduce a naming pattern, not a naming pattern to deduce ancestry. No harm in using it to define priorities in a search, but it's not evidence. My personal experience has been that I'm 1/8th Scots (one G-grandfather from Dundee) and _if_ that's a representative percentage, of the 751 families in my database, 93 would be Scots. Well, I've seen just two of those families follow a naming pattern. One was a family into which my relative married, so the pattern was before they arrived. The other came from California - the maternal grandfather was Scots, but they got the order of the first two daughters wrong. So call it one-and-a-half families. As I said on the board, the pattern unquestionably exists in _some_ areas and eras and I'd sort of got the idea that it would be stronger in the Gaelic areas. However, a later post said that that something like half of Forfarian's families on both coasts follow the pattern. So - have I just got a contrary bunch (from Dundee but also coming down from Dunkeld)? In a completely unscientific survey - what's the feeling on how many of your Scots families from wherever follow the pattern? Cheers Adrian Bruce

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Forfarian Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.2.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am 100% Scots and I have, so far, found 208 direct ancestors, including all of my great-great-great-grandparents. I have not, so far, far found a single direct ancestor who was born furth of Scotland. My father's family are all from the east of Scotland and my mother's from the west and centre. In my tree I have 2234 families whose parents were married in Scotland between 1750 and 1900. It would take me far too long to check each of those families individually, but I reckon that something like half of them, in both east and west, followed the naming tradition. So I won't have it that the tradition is 'nonsense' ;) However I do agree wholeheartedly that the naming tradition is not an infallible predictor of a parent's name in the absence of any other information. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Forfarian Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.2.2.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: If you know that the George you are interested in was married in 1889, the American resident George who died at sea in 1884 is clearly a complete red herring, and there is no point in pursuing his records. I still think it might be of interest to get John Jackson's patient records. You never know what they might contain. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: adrian_bruce Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.2.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: "If John followed protocol, he would name his first born male after his father..." Oh no, Patrick - don't allow yourself to be sucked into the Scots naming pattern nonsense. I'm 1/8th Scots (one G-grandfather from Dundee) and _if_ that's a representative percentage, of the 751 families in my database, 93 would be Scots. Well, I've seen just two of those families follow an (alleged) Scots naming pattern. One was a family into which my relative married, so the pattern was before they arrived. The other came from California - the maternal grandfather was Scots, but they got the order of the first two daughters wrong. So call it one-and-a-half families. Now, on the Gaelic side of Scotland, life might be totally different, but on the East Coast..... No. It is not protocol. It doesn't mean your family _didn't_ follow the pattern. It unquestionably exists in _some_ areas and eras, but the fact is that you should use ancestry to deduce a naming pattern, not a naming pattern to deduce ancestry. If you are alert to this, then fine... Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: CLGAGREANEY Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.2.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Many thanks for all the replies. I agree with some of the conclusions. The John Jackson I seek was born at Aberdeen abt 1824 according to the birth registration of his son George, born at Dundee in 1855. John's wife, George's mother is Eliza MS Ferguson and John signed the registration as father. Eliza died in 1856 at Dundee and John, her husband was present. However John was deceased when his son George was married on New Years Eve, 1889 at Dunfermline. John's occupation is known to be Fireman/Ship Stoker which leads one to believe he was a merchant seaman. The John Jackson who died at the Royal Infirmary at Dundee in 1884 is said to have suffered for 2 years with and died of "Malarious Bachteria". The informant was Edward Currie, Infirmary Porter/Inmate. If John followed protocol He would name his first born male after his father, ergo Alexander, George's older brother born abt 1852, was John's father's forename. As a sidebar, Alexander and George were admitted t! o the East Dundee Poorhouse in 1857. after their mother passed away and were listed as boarders at Crathie, Aberdeenshire in the 1861 census. I've found nothing conclusive of Alexander or George after that date. Thanks again, Patrick Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Forfarian Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hmmm. Batch No B01719-3 at FamilySearch seems to be all Merchant Marine deaths. Now, when someone who died at sea was known to have been born or lived in Scotland, it was usual for that information to be transmitted to the Registrar General in Scotland, and this is where the Scotland's People 'Minor Records' series of BM&Ds at sea comes from. This George Jackson who died on 25 February 1884 was resident in New York, and it seems that there is no matching listing on SP. I suggest that this is good evidence that this George Jackson does not have any connection to Scotland. You will have to find and look at the original record to see what it tells you. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Forfarian Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: "and the one who died at sea was John" - that should of course have read George not John. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Forfarian Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Someone who was aged 26 on 25 February 1884 would have been born between 25 February 1857 and 24 February 1858, assuming of course that the record is accurate. Therefore not only can the George Jackson who died at sea not be the widower of Elizabeth who died in 1856, he can't even be her son. Also I now realise that the one who died in Dundee was John and the one who died at sea was John. Nothing like introducing a bit of good ol' confusion. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Forfarian Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: "It's hard to believe that governmental place where died does not have the next of kin information on record." The Dundee Royal Infirmary was not a 'governmental place' in 1884. Healthcare didn't become a 'governmental thing' until 1948 - and there are still many countries where medical care is all in the private sector to this day. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee_Royal_Infirmary Normally 19th century hospital records are excellent, because the hospital management extracted a lot of detail from most patients, so the records include all sorts of information that you would not get from a death certificate. If there are gaps in the information in the case of George Jackson there will be a good reason for them. You can access the records of this John Jackson via the Tayside Health Board archives http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/a-thb.htm You will probably find that John Jackson was taken ill, or had an accident, on board whatever ship he served on, which happened to be in Dundee at the time, so they took him to the Infirmary, where he died (you haven't told us the cause of death, have you?). If he was unconscious, or too ill to be questioned, they would have had no way of knowing the names of his parents and wife, and the rest of the crew are unlikely to know all this either (do you know the maiden names of your work colleagues' mothers?). Bear in mind also that if he had died in a hospital in England, the certificate would have contained no information about the parents anyway, so if he signed on in England there would be no reason for anyone to ask him about them. But his case the case notes would include what information the Captain did have, which might include where he lived, and would certainly include the vessel he served on. This would help you to look for his record of service as a merchant seaman. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: maryschacht Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: a burial at sea, residence new york, doesn't go with a death in a dundee hospital. Dundee is/was a big shipping port, so he may have worked from there, but it's correct he could have been born anywhere. If you have wife's name, likely her parents off 1856 death, try marriage for them, then census. If she died in 1856, you should know about how old they might be, not that they would have had to be the same age. 1851 to 1881 would/should have him, but i would not think a death at age 26, would likely be related unless she was also very young when she died, and moved to New York? I'd keep that in mind for now, but the scottish citizen deaths overseas, are at the GROS but not online/digitized. LDS searches for children of the couple, if you are a descendant Patrick, are nice, but going back to Scotspeeps is always best. find my past is good for military B/M/D, and for england, Oz and New Zealand... but REAL records...get back to Scotland Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: adrian_bruce Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: "his parents and widow's names are listed as 'unknown'. It's hard to believe that governmental place where died does not have the next of kin information on record." I beg to differ - it's perfectly possible. There are no central systems for this sort of thing at the time, so if no-one had asked beforehand or he was in no condition to volunteer the information, and no-one knew him after his death, then there's no possibility for getting NoK. And it's a hospital, not a governmental establishment - no National Health Service. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: r_laurence Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5995.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: >From familysearch.org Jackson Great Britain Deaths and Burials, 1778-1988 birth: 1849 death: 20 Jan 1884 Merchant Marine,? At Sea,? Great Britain ------------------------- John Jackson Great Britain Deaths and Burials, 1778-1988 birth: 1852 death: 14 Aug 1884 Merchant Marine,? At Sea,? Great Britain residence: 1884 Hoylake,? Cheshire ------------------------------ John Jackson Great Britain Deaths and Burials, 1778-1988 birth: 1852 death: 14 Aug 1884 Merchant Marine,? At Sea,? Great Britain Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: agwatt15 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5995.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I suspect this MAY be your John Jackson... The bapism register shows his father is Alexander... John Jackson's first born son is Alexander and likely named after his paternal Grandfather. Inverurie Bapism Register 15th September 1826 William Jackson Taylor in Inverurie had a son by his wife Christian Smith born 3rd September. baptized the 14th current and named John before witnesses- Alexander Jackson his father and George Jackson his brother both in Dava. 1841 Census Piece: SCT1841/204 Place: Inverurie -Aberdeenshire Enumeration District: 2 Civil Parish: Inverurie-Royal Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - Folio: 2 Page: 6 Address: High Street South Side Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks JACKSON William M 45 Tailor Aberdeenshire JACKSON Christian F 40 Aberdeenshire JACKSON Christian F 17 Aberdeenshire JACKSON Alexr M 15 Aberdeenshire JACKSON John M 13 Aberdeenshire JACKSON William M 10 Aberdeenshire JACKSON Helen F 7 Aberdeenshire JACKSON Margaret F 5 Aberdeenshire BROWN George M 30 Linen Hand Loom Weaver Aberdeenshire NICOL James M 16 Tailor Aberdeenshire WILLIAMSON Elisabeth F 35 Prepare Wool For Carding Aberdeenshire SMITH James M 21 Watchmaker Aberdeenshire SMITH Alexr M 15 Watchmaker Journeyman Aberdeenshire Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: r_laurence Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: this from familysearch.org Can not find it on Scotland's People Geo. Jackson Great Britain Deaths and Burials, 1778-1988 birth: 1858 death: 28 Feb 1884 Merchant Marine,? At Sea,? Great Britain residence: 1884 N. York name: Geo. Jackson gender: Male death date: 28 Feb 1884 death place: Merchant Marine, At Sea, Great Britain age: 26 birth date: 1858 occupation: A. B. indexing project (batch) number: B01719-3 system origin: Great Britain-EASy source film number: Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: CLGAGREANEY Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: farfar: Thanks for the criticism. I have been at SP and findmypast and other sites. I know that at the death registration of his wife, Elizabeth, in 1856 his occupation is listed as "ship stoker". Findmypast and SP list a John Jackson a merchant marine died in the Royal Infirmary at Dundee in 1884. Unfortunally his parents and widow's names are listed as "unknown. It's hard to believe that governmental place where died does not have the next of kin information on record. Regards. Patrick Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Geo. Jackson Great Britain Deaths and Burials, 1778-1988 birth: 1858 death: 28 Feb 1884 Merchant Marine,? At Sea,? Great Britain residence: 1884 N. York name: Geo. Jackson gender: Male death date: 28 Feb 1884 death place: Merchant Marine, At Sea, Great Britain age: 26 birth date: 1858 occupation: A. B. indexing project (batch) number: B01719-3 system origin: Great Britain-EASy source film number: this from familysearch.org Can not find it on Scotland's People

this from familysearch.org Can not find it on Scotland's People Geo. Jackson Great Britain Deaths and Burials, 1778-1988 birth: 1858 death: 28 Feb 1884 Merchant Marine,? At Sea,? Great Britain residence: 1884 N. York name: Geo. Jackson gender: Male death date: 28 Feb 1884 death place: Merchant Marine, At Sea, Great Britain age: 26 birth date: 1858 occupation: A. B. indexing project (batch) number: B01719-3 system origin: Great Britain-EASy source film number:

Geo. Jackson Great Britain Deaths and Burials, 1778-1988 birth: 1858 death: 28 Feb 1884 Merchant Marine,? At Sea,? Great Britain residence: 1884 N. York name: Geo. Jackson gender: Male death date: 28 Feb 1884 death place: Merchant Marine, At Sea, Great Britain age: 26 birth date: 1858 occupation: A. B. indexing project (batch) number: B01719-3 system origin: Great Britain-EASy source film number: Can not find it on Scotland's People ----- Original Message ----- From: <gc-gateway@rootsweb.com> To: <ANGUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Death records > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Author: farfarloon > Surnames: > Classification: queries > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3/mb.ashx > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: farfarloon Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5996.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I think you should invest a small sum in credits at ScotlandsPeople. George Jackson may have died in Dundee Royal Infirmary but that does not mean that he lived in Dundee. A death may be registered in the district where it took place or, more common in my experience, in the district where the deceased lived or where his next of kin were living. If you enter the surname and given name on SP, confine the year range to 1882 to 1886 and leave the "place" column at "all districts" there are five possibilities for George Jackson. If you narrow the year range to 1884-1885 there are still three. If you restrict the search to Dundee there are none in either of these periods suggesting that George lived elsewhere, probably in the costal towns of Angus or Fife. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.