Hi does anyone know anything about this place, perhaps it was a farm Thanks edith

Hi all, Please could anyone help with interpretation of a will/testament for 1578 found on the free search on scotlands people site I don't know if this is in latin or secretarial hand, although the writing appears clear enough, would appreciate it if someone would have a go for me, I can scan the document and send it alternativly if someone would be happy to look at it for me here is the reference for Scotlands people David tarbat 20th feb 1578 Ref cc8/8/6 edinburgh commissary court Testament dative and inventory In tarquhappie parrish of kynnettills Many thanks Edith talbot

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: nigelkathymatthew Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/1858.2.1.3.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks Jeanette, yes I saw that website from Yvonne's info. That would be wonderful. Will email soon :) Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: andypatterson1 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/1858.2.1.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Kathy I am not sure if you will receive this as I no longer have my own subscription to Ancestry (I use the local library instead). Also, the email address registered with Ancestry is obsolete. So, if you get this message, perhaps you could reply to me at jeanette@pat.gen.nz and I will be able to get you up to date. Meanwhile, you can also see some info on our own website www.pat.gen.nz. Regards Jeanette Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

http://www.aladin-computer.de/dsrvebu/wefwef?wefwrge

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: DonGillies61 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/6017.4.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Yes, a flesher (master) is a master-butcher, ie fully qualified. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: wendynorman56 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/6017.4.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Alexander Mackenzie born 1829 Kingoldrum Angus, Catherine Hay Fairweather born 1829 died in Kirriermuir in 1922.Thomas Alexander Mackenzie born April 1863 Kirriemuir(son) died in 1921 Ontario Canada.Any information about these families their jobs and lives. On the census Alexander was described as a Flesher Master would this be a butcher?On the 1871 Census the children listed were William,Jane, Robert, Helen, Thomas A,Mary living at 43 High St. Kirriemuir.Thank you for any information from Wendy Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: wendynorman56 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/6017.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thank you Don for the post, I am looking into the family of Thomas Alexander Mackenzie born April 18 1863 Kirriemuir,he married Annie Robertson.His father was Alexander Mackenzie born 1829 Kingoldrum Angus died 1907 Ontario, Mother Catherine Hay Fairweather . My main research is into Thomas's children, a son Alexander Mackenzie born in Gosport in Hampshire in 1894 and the family of Alexander went back to Kirriemuir to live we were told. The son Alexander was on the 1901 English Census but not on the 1911. Any information about these Mackenzies would be great. Thank you from Wendy Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: IHall6669 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/6017.4/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I do have some records of McKenzies in Kirriemuir, but need a bit more information. Whenever it is a common surname it always helps if you can give the name of the mother (including her maiden surname) or the wife. And a time period. Even the childrens' name can provide a clue -- often a mother's or grandmother's surname pops up as a given or middle name. In other words, the more information you give us, the more information you are likely to receive back. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

The Oxford English Dictionary says: webster, n. Forms: ME webbestre, ME web(b)ester, webister, ME webstere, ME webstar, 15 wyebster, ME– webster; Sc.ME–15 wobstar, 15–16 wobster, 15– wabster. Etymology: Old English webbestre , feminine of webba weaver, webbe n Anne

On 20/03/2013 11:55, Wallace Fullerton wrote: > Thank you, Anne. > > I didn't expect so complex a definition. John Cable responded also, > giving the meaning as "weaver" - that might also fit into your more > expansive definition since many from the Low Countries were, in fact, > weavers. And I just looked up the derivation of the name "Webster" > and find that it also comes from the Flemish and relates to weaving. > Most intriguing, these little factoids. I would be a little hesitant in claiming that the Scots term webster/wabster/wobster "comes from" the Flemish. The modern Dutch for "weaver" is "wever", which (allowing for standard consonant shifts) is equivalent to modern German "Weber", and quite distinct, phonetically and etymologically, from "webster". I don't have dictionaries of mediaeval Dutch/Flemish/Low German to hand, but even if some form resembling "webster" had been current in the Low Countries in the Middle Ages, it does not follow that we Scots were so linguistically impoverished that we had to borrow the term. That's a bit like saying "my cousin and I both have red hair - he must have inherited it from me". If my cousin and I share a physical characteristic, then neither of us can have inherited it from the other, because there is no genetic pathway between us. But we might both have inherited it from our shared grandfather, and similar mechanisms operate in families of languages. There were influxes of peoples from the Low Countries, but how can you be sure that the term was not current in Scots before the Flemish arrival? You don't say where you looked up the derivation of "webster", but the "Shorter Scots Dictionary" records the term in various parts of Scotland, and notes that, while now obsolete, the form is also known from older forms of English. So while we can say with some certainty that "webster" etc is of West Germanic origin, tying it down more precisely would require a deeper knowledge that I possess of the various strands of Mediaeval West Germanic - and I do hold a degree in Germanic Philology! Gavin Bell

> I didn't expect so complex a definition. John Cable > responded also, giving the meaning as "weaver" - that might > also fit into your more expansive definition Yes - Warden does refer to it as 'the braboner, or webster craft' in that extract. Anne

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Forfarian Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/6017.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Wendy, I think you are at risk of looking for needles in haystacks! Mackenzie was the 45th commonest surname, and McKenzie the 11th commonest surname in the Scottish birth registers in 1858. (McKenzie as a separate spelling didn't make it into the top 100). Digression - In 1990 Mackenzie came 45th and McKenzie 69th, which is interesting because it seems to indicate a shift in spelling away from Mackenzie to McKenzie. If you mean the current telephone directory, you can look it up for yourself online at http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/search/residential/search.publisha If you mean older trade directories, there may be some on the National Library of Scotland web site at http://digital.nls.uk/directories/ As for any other information, you won't get far without giving his approximate date of birth. Do you have any other information, e.g. when he went to Canada, whom he married and where etc? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

G F Black uses it in his 'Surnames of Scotland'. Of the surname Bremner, "The old form was Brabener, 'the Brabander', i.e. a native of Brabant. Artificers and traders from the Low Countries settled in Aberdeenshire and elsewhere on the east coast at an early date." He quotes A J Warden's 'Burgh Laws of Dundee': "The braboner, or webster craft, holds the eighth place among the nine trades". There are umpteen alternative spellings of the name including Brebner, Brember, Brymer, Brimmer, Braboner etc. I have a family in my tree who used Bremner and Brymer intechangeably over several generations. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wallace Fullerton" <fullerton@comcast.net> To: "Angus Roots Web" <angus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 3:07 AM Subject: [ANGUS] definition? > Might anyone know the term "braboner?" I've not found it > anywhere. > Alternative spelling seems to be "brabaner." > > The term was used in a list of testaments where the individual > was the > "sometime brabonar in Claschebeny, par. of Dunnichen" circa > 1600. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: farfarloon Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/6016.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: St Peter's Free Church, Perth Road Dundee has a burial ground. I don't know if this has been taken over by Dundee City Council for maintenance (it is probably long closed to new burials) but the church itself has a web-site. I suggest you try www.stpeters-dundee.org.uk and use the "contact us" facility to find out if there is a monument to John Gentles. They might even provide a transcription if any exists. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

All good points, Gavin. While my original question wasn't intended to create this flurry of interest, in light of Anne's other response showing the old English derivation, I think I'll toss this one at a good friend who is in the middle of an academic study (in association with scholars from the University of St. Andrews) of the Flemish immigration and influence in Scotland. Maybe its somewhere in his database. Thank you. - wally - On 3/20/2013 8:27 AM, Gavin Bell wrote: > On 20/03/2013 11:55, Wallace Fullerton wrote: >> Thank you, Anne. >> >> I didn't expect so complex a definition. John Cable responded also, >> giving the meaning as "weaver" - that might also fit into your more >> expansive definition since many from the Low Countries were, in fact, >> weavers. And I just looked up the derivation of the name "Webster" >> and find that it also comes from the Flemish and relates to weaving. >> Most intriguing, these little factoids. > > I would be a little hesitant in claiming that the Scots term > webster/wabster/wobster "comes from" the Flemish. The modern Dutch for > "weaver" is "wever", which (allowing for standard consonant shifts) is > equivalent to modern German "Weber", and quite distinct, phonetically > and etymologically, from "webster". I don't have dictionaries of > mediaeval Dutch/Flemish/Low German to hand, but even if some form > resembling "webster" had been current in the Low Countries in the Middle > Ages, it does not follow that we Scots were so linguistically > impoverished that we had to borrow the term. > > That's a bit like saying "my cousin and I both have red hair - he must > have inherited it from me". If my cousin and I share a physical > characteristic, then neither of us can have inherited it from the other, > because there is no genetic pathway between us. But we might both have > inherited it from our shared grandfather, and similar mechanisms operate > in families of languages. > > There were influxes of peoples from the Low Countries, but how can you > be sure that the term was not current in Scots before the Flemish > arrival? You don't say where you looked up the derivation of "webster", > but the "Shorter Scots Dictionary" records the term in various parts of > Scotland, and notes that, while now obsolete, the form is also known > from older forms of English. So while we can say with some certainty > that "webster" etc is of West Germanic origin, tying it down more > precisely would require a deeper knowledge that I possess of the various > strands of Mediaeval West Germanic - and I do hold a degree in Germanic > Philology! > > > Gavin Bell > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

A braboner was a weaver John ________________________________ From: Wallace Fullerton <fullerton@comcast.net> To: Angus Roots Web <angus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 20 March 2013, 3:07 Subject: [ANGUS] definition? Might anyone know the term "braboner?"  I've not found it anywhere. Alternative spelling seems to be "brabaner." The term was used in a list of testaments where the individual was the  "sometime brabonar in Claschebeny, par. of Dunnichen"  circa 1600. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: DonGillies61 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/6017.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Wendy, Was Thomas born in Scotland ? If so, it would be helpful if you could give a year (even approximately), to help others to help you. The name of the town you refer to is Kirriemuir, not Kerriemuir. Don Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Thank you, Anne. I didn't expect so complex a definition. John Cable responded also, giving the meaning as "weaver" - that might also fit into your more expansive definition since many from the Low Countries were, in fact, weavers. And I just looked up the derivation of the name "Webster" and find that it also comes from the Flemish and relates to weaving. Most intriguing, these little factoids. On 3/20/2013 6:37 AM, Anne Burgess wrote: > G F Black uses it in his 'Surnames of Scotland'. > > Of the surname Bremner, "The old form was Brabener, 'the > Brabander', i.e. a native of Brabant. Artificers and traders > from the Low Countries settled in Aberdeenshire and elsewhere on > the east coast at an early date." > > He quotes A J Warden's 'Burgh Laws of Dundee': "The braboner, or > webster craft, holds the eighth place among the nine trades". > > There are umpteen alternative spellings of the name including > Brebner, Brember, Brymer, Brimmer, Braboner etc. > > I have a family in my tree who used Bremner and Brymer > intechangeably over several generations. > > Anne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wallace Fullerton" <fullerton@comcast.net> > To: "Angus Roots Web" <angus@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 3:07 AM > Subject: [ANGUS] definition? > > >> Might anyone know the term "braboner?" I've not found it >> anywhere. >> Alternative spelling seems to be "brabaner." >> >> The term was used in a list of testaments where the individual >> was the >> "sometime brabonar in Claschebeny, par. of Dunnichen" circa >> 1600. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you! On 3/20/2013 4:57 AM, John Cable wrote: > A braboner was a weaver > > > John > >