> the burial record for JEAN CHALMERS NICOLL 1847 age 82 says > "at > Kirkstyle" Kinfauns. I cannot seem to identify "Kirkstyle" > .tried > gazetteers and Statistical accounts to no avail. > does anyone know what this might have been? As it is a burial, it is almost certainly in the Kinfauns parish kirkyard, which for some reason or another is named Kirkstyle. More generally, it's important to understand that the majority of place names mentioned in the parish registers are single farms or estates, and that very few of these would ever make it into gazetteers or road maps. It is also essential to be aware that just because you have found on a map a place name matching the one you are looking for, it isn't necessarily the right place. The same place names are found all over the country, so unless the place you have found is definitely in the same parish as the event you have found, you cannot assume that it is. That said, there are various web sites now which offer the opportunity to search for place names on maps at 1:50,000 or 1:25,000 scales. The one I use is www.streetmap.co.uk but many people use www.multimap.com which I don't think is nearly as good. For example when I searched for 'Kirkstyle' on Streetmap it found two, one in Caithness and one in Dumfries-shire, both of which are on the Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 (Landranger) map. Multimap found neither of these, but suggested a Kirkstile in Aberdeenshire, Kirkstall in Yorkshire and Kirkstead in Lincolnshire. However if the place you are looking for isn't actually named on the modern Ordnance Survey map, it will not be picked up in a search, and not even the 1:25,000 map of Kinfauns has Kirkstyle in Kinfauns named on it. Your next port of call is the Victorian six-inch-to-the-mile Ordnance Survey maps published in the 1870s. These can be viewed online at http://www.nls.uk/maps/os/index.html and at www.old-maps.co.uk Of the two, I find the NLS site very irritating, because even after selecting the six-inch series and the county and parish, the system produces a one-inch series map and you have to zoom in repeatedly to get to the map you selected in the first place. Old-maps is more difficult initially, but once you know how it works you can go straight to where you want to be at the scale you want. Either way, bingo! Kirkstyle of Kinfauns is marked on the six-inch map, and is, as expected, the immediate surroundings of the kirk and school at Kinfauns. Hope this helps. Anne

Nivard Ovington wrote: >... >What annoys me most is that the GROS will not allow the likes of Ancestry to >have the images as that would make your suggestion all the more attainable, >I use the English census in just that way every day, often finding close >relations and connections people in the same street or village > >I can't see the day they are going to give up their cash cow and give open >access though to what are essentially our records > > I don't think GROS decided all of their own volition to charge for access - they were obliged, like many other public bodies, such as the Ordnance Survey, to cover their costs from revenue (I seem to recall that someone called "Thatcher" was at the back of this, in the name of "cutting bureaucracy"). The alternative to charging actual users of the service would be an increase in taxes for all of us. Which would you rather? Gavin Bell

Alistair You said that you can not view your backup CD's. Was this because the files stored on them were peculiat to the genealogy program you used. If so there is a good chance that FTM 2009 will import them and save you a lot of work. It is worth a try. When you backup in the future, try backing up in two or more formats. e.g. FTM allows you to save your data in their files and also in gedcom files. The gedcom is much more portable between programs. John W Cranbourne Australia Alistair Macdonald wrote: > I hope this is the right department. If not, silence will confirm it. About a year ago faced with brick walls in four families, and getting back no further than the early 1700's, I decided to give it a rest. Some three months ago after a computer crash in which I lost my entire family tree programme and all family data, not even being able to view my carefully preserved CD back ups, I was tempted to scrub the lot, but after following some threads in this group a spark of enthusiasm was raised. I bought the latest Family Tree Maker programme and was rewarded with a three month's free trial of Ancestry. If I decide to restart my searches I know that when signed on, Scotland's People will show me with over 100 credits, Everything seems to be in my favour, but where do I start? Try again in the BDM departments; engage in more battles with LDS family search, or go back to my listed genealogy sites? Or where? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Alistair > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I am sorry I have to disagree Nivard. Perhaps it is just my luck with my family's names, but I find that Ancestry returns way too many hits to be useable. For instance I searched for a Goodwin born 1839 b. Kington in the 1841 census, And I had over 100 pages or something similar of every Goodwin born in every county except Herefordshire! This has happened on lots of the searches I have done all over the place. I also feel that Ancestry subs are quite expensive if you have a limited family to search. If I was doing a one name study that would be different. I have found Scotlands People to be quite cost effective, especially compared to some of the newer sites, that charge an exorbitant amount to view images. Heather in Canada Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi Lesley > > I also noticed the oddity on the Soldiers that Died returns for Theatre of > War > > The majority seem to state Aldershot with some British Expeditionary Force > and a few others, I don't think its a transcript error, rather a database > field selection error as far as I can see > > As I already had the Soldiers that Died for my people I had not until now > thought to question where that (Aldershot) comes from, I have now mailed > Ancestry for an explanation and will let you know what the outcome is > > As to transcript errors, I have found Ancestry no worse than any other > supplier of online information such as findmypast or the genealogist etc, > the difference I find is that with Ancestry you have a chance to find people > with others you have little chance > > > Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > > > >> I aquired an Ancestry sub as a birthday present and have been both >> >> amused and annoyed to see that their reputation for typos is well >> deserved. >> >> One of the most annoying (indeed somewhat offensive) thus far has been >> >> the major mistake in their transcription of Soldier Who Died in the Great >> War, >> >> where they show most men as having died in Aldershot rather than the >> >> actual battlefield or area. >> >> I'm using it, like the IGI and other transcriptions, to narrow >> possibilities >> >> before checking the orig8inals on SP. >> >> >> >> Lesley Robertson >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

I don't know about Scotland's people, but this is a new site and the only Scottish county they have is Angus. As usual, you can get a surprising amount free but you have to pay to get everything. https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch Alison in Vancouver > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:57:27 EDT > From: BRUINSWOOD@aol.com > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] "Kirkstyle" Kinfauns? > To: angus@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <bce.4301d641.370abb87@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I had fun looking up the new burials added to Scotlandspeople. I have 53 new > Powrie burials which is quite a catch! Anyone hear new news on when Angus > county wide burials will be available? I have not heard anything since the first > "buzz" that they intended to computerize the burials. > > Mary in Oregon > > To my U.S. friends: Don't forget tomorrow is National Tartan Day! Show your > tartan off smartly friends, you know I'll be all "decked out". I recently > bought enough of my hubby's tartan (ancient Stewart of Appin) to make a full > length skirt to match my long sash. Bruce may have "stuck me" with the German > last name of Schacht, but he at least is Scottish descent on his Mum's side. His > tartan is very close to my own McInnes, to make the transition easier. The > ancient hunting McInnes is so lovely, I found it hard to want to "switch", but > we exchanged tartan, when we exchanged rings. (I gave my McInnes tartan to > my eldest daughter. We look very nice together, now that I match his kilt. > Bruce gave her (Jameela) a Stewart Clan badge in the same ceremony. None of our > four boys could make the trip to Fergus, Ontario for our 25th wedding > anniversary, where we renewed our vows in my great grandparent's church. > > Two sons are firefighters and one's in the Coast Guard. Very hard to get the > family together. Jeff (my eldest) started a non-profit which takes "old" > refurbished fire equipment, and gives them to the rural fire departments, and > just arranged to get two free ambulances for the rural town in Easter Oregon > where he lives. > > Sorry to be so chatty, and off subject, but I'm very proud of the man he's > become. Ben is in college but works in a forest fire "hot" crew that parachute > into large forrest fires in the summer months. All three of my sisters > children do the same. There's is the first generation of fire fighters, but my > grandsons want to follow suit when they get older. With all four uncles in > service, I'm sure at least one will follow. > > Mary in Oregon > > > In a message dated 4/5/2009 3:49:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > harviebarker@shaw.ca writes: > > the burial record for JEAN CHALMERS NICOLL 1847 age 82 says "at > Kirkstyle" Kinfauns. I cannot seem to identify "Kirkstyle" .tried > gazetteers and Statistical accounts to no avail. > > does anyone know what this might have been? > > thanks Liz of BC Canada > > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: IHall6669 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5550.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The OPR records show the christenings of the following children of James Stewart and Agnes Adamson: Charles, 7 July 1827 James Skinner, 22 Feb 1829 Robert, 1 Jan 1834 Susan, 29 March 1836 no record of a Peter belonging to them. My only problem is whether it was that particular James Skinner Stewart (ch. 1829) who married Ann Watt. He is about the right age, but that might just be coincidence. He was not with his parents on the 1841 census, so could have died young. Also, it appears that there was another Susan Stewart, and it was she who married George Fyffe. And I have 11 children for James Stewart and Ann Watt, not just 9. Irene, in Michigan Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Hi again Anne > Most main libraries in Scotland have microfilms of the original > enumeration books, which you can check free of charge. All good but not from the depths of Cornwall unfortunatley :-( (its heck of a bus ride you know :-) > I appreciate that this isn't much use if you don't live in > Scotland, or can't make the journey to the library which holds > the films you want to see, but you can order them for a small > fee to see at any Latter Day Saints (Mormon) Church Family > History Centre. Lists of FHCs at www.familysearch.org Also good but it would cost far more to travel back and forth and pay for parking, the film and copies plus the problem of our nearest LDS FHS being open very restricted hours > Excellent advice, but it might be even cheaper hiring the whole > film at an LDS FHC. This has the additional advantage that you > can browse the entire book, which may turn up other interesting > bits of information that you wouldn't get if you just download > an image from SP. What annoys me most is that the GROS will not allow the likes of Ancestry to have the images as that would make your suggestion all the more attainable, I use the English census in just that way every day, often finding close relations and connections people in the same street or village I can't see the day they are going to give up their cash cow and give open access though to what are essentially our records Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK)

> Just to be crystal clear, I was not advocating using the > transcript on its > own, far from it > Its imperative to check the original page (which is itself a > transcript > unfortunately up to 1901) Most main libraries in Scotland have microfilms of the original enumeration books, which you can check free of charge. I appreciate that this isn't much use if you don't live in Scotland, or can't make the journey to the library which holds the films you want to see, but you can order them for a small fee to see at any Latter Day Saints (Mormon) Church Family History Centre. Lists of FHCs at www.familysearch.org > No I was suggesting using the Ancestry census transcript to > find the right > family before buying the image from scotlandspeople Excellent advice, but it might be even cheaper hiring the whole film at an LDS FHC. This has the additional advantage that you can browse the entire book, which may turn up other interesting bits of information that you wouldn't get if you just download an image from SP. > Using scotlandspeople on its own can be a frustrating and > expensive business Indeed. Anne

> A relative has been sharing with me a treasure trove of old > photographs, papers > and letters saved by an auntie of ours (born Alloa 1848). > Several letters written > during the 1800s were written from "Delvine Home Farm, > Dunkeld" and I set about > to see if I could locate it. > Although unsuccessful I did see that Google noted several > > addresses, even now, included the wording "Home Farm" - and so > I wonder, does > that phrase have a particular meaning ? The home farm was originally a farm attached to the 'big house' of an estate. It would typically be farmed by the estate owner or, more likely, a grieve or farm manager employed by him, rather than by an independent tenant farmer. In Scotland the term 'mains of such-and-such' is more often used than 'such-and-such home farm' but it means something similar. You can see where Delvine is on the map here http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO1240 HTH Anne

Barbara Neish wrote: >Hello Everyone > >A relative has been sharing with me a treasure trove of old photographs, papers and letters saved by an auntie of ours (born Alloa 1848). Several letters written during the 1800s were written from "Delvine Home Farm, Dunkeld" and I set about to see if I could locate it. Although unsuccessful I did see that Google noted several addresses, even now, included the wording "Home Farm" - and so I wonder, does that phrase have a particular meaning ? > > The "Home Farm" was the farm owned (but normally not directly operated ) by the owners of a large estate - it would normally be run by a manager. The term is sometimes seen as more English than Scottish, the Scots equivalent being "Mains of X", where "X" is the name of the estate. I wouldn't necessarily expect Google to come up with the answers to such a query. A more fruitful approach would be looking at old maps of the area. If you log on to the National Library of Scotland site at: http://geo.nls.uk/os6inch/ you can enter "Perthshire" as County, "Dunkeld" as Parish, and "Delvine" as place. If you zoom in on the map (use the leftmost of the two "+" icons and click on the map) you will find "Delvine", which looks like a "big hoose", with what appears to be a large courtyard a short distance to the northeast. I would guess that this was the "Home Farm" in question, even though it is not separately named on the map. Gavin Bell

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Dorward" <personal@dorrit41jbd.bbmax.co.uk> To: <angus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] DREW family of Barry ?? Hi Bruce > It would help if we knew what William's occupation was. This would > have been > given in the census. > I am sorry ! I should have included that ............ journeyman shoe/boot maker > I have a notion that Carnoustie also had a footwear factory at one > time but > I am not certain about that. Burnside St or the west end of Maule St > would > have been a convenient place to live in relation to where I think > the > footwear factory was located. > > That would certainly make sense . Any idea if it was a place of some size ?? I feel it had to be for William DREW , resident of Ross, Herefordshire to have found out about it ??? William and Alice had a daughter b in Ross in 1888 and sometime between then and the 1891 moved to Barry Can you help , please ? Many thanks Bye MargM Beautiful NSW Central Coast NSW Australia

I had fun looking up the new burials added to Scotlandspeople. I have 53 new Powrie burials which is quite a catch! Anyone hear new news on when Angus county wide burials will be available? I have not heard anything since the first "buzz" that they intended to computerize the burials. Mary in Oregon To my U.S. friends: Don't forget tomorrow is National Tartan Day! Show your tartan off smartly friends, you know I'll be all "decked out". I recently bought enough of my hubby's tartan (ancient Stewart of Appin) to make a full length skirt to match my long sash. Bruce may have "stuck me" with the German last name of Schacht, but he at least is Scottish descent on his Mum's side. His tartan is very close to my own McInnes, to make the transition easier. The ancient hunting McInnes is so lovely, I found it hard to want to "switch", but we exchanged tartan, when we exchanged rings. (I gave my McInnes tartan to my eldest daughter. We look very nice together, now that I match his kilt. Bruce gave her (Jameela) a Stewart Clan badge in the same ceremony. None of our four boys could make the trip to Fergus, Ontario for our 25th wedding anniversary, where we renewed our vows in my great grandparent's church. Two sons are firefighters and one's in the Coast Guard. Very hard to get the family together. Jeff (my eldest) started a non-profit which takes "old" refurbished fire equipment, and gives them to the rural fire departments, and just arranged to get two free ambulances for the rural town in Easter Oregon where he lives. Sorry to be so chatty, and off subject, but I'm very proud of the man he's become. Ben is in college but works in a forest fire "hot" crew that parachute into large forrest fires in the summer months. All three of my sisters children do the same. There's is the first generation of fire fighters, but my grandsons want to follow suit when they get older. With all four uncles in service, I'm sure at least one will follow. Mary in Oregon In a message dated 4/5/2009 3:49:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, harviebarker@shaw.ca writes: the burial record for JEAN CHALMERS NICOLL 1847 age 82 says "at Kirkstyle" Kinfauns. I cannot seem to identify "Kirkstyle" .tried gazetteers and Statistical accounts to no avail. does anyone know what this might have been? thanks Liz of BC Canada ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220572833x1201387477/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)

SCRAN has a number of photos of Kinfaun (mainly the Kinfauns castle and the parish church). The church is now boarded up, so the photo of 1935, is really nice. There are also a number of photos of Salmon Fishing, a Salmon fishing station, and a fishing bothy, which are wonderful for me, as there is a branch of Powries who fished from Kinfauns and Elcho castle on the opposite bank of the Tay. No photos of Kirkstyle, but I found 12 on RCAHMS. _http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/167453/details/kinfauns+kirkstyle+cottag es/_ (http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/167453/details/kinfauns+kirkstyle+cottages/) You'd have to order copies, but I usually order paper copies first to see what views there are, and then order the best on a Cd. They also have text from a book too. Mary in Oregon In a message dated 4/5/2009 3:49:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, harviebarker@shaw.ca writes: the burial record for JEAN CHALMERS NICOLL 1847 age 82 says "at Kirkstyle" Kinfauns. I cannot seem to identify "Kirkstyle" .tried gazetteers and Statistical accounts to no avail. does anyone know what this might have been? thanks Liz of BC Canada ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220572833x1201387477/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)

hi folks, after much searching I think maybe the PRESTONS [Presson] of Glamis came from Glen of Ogilvie [which I had to hunt down on Statistical Accounts and Google] called Milltown of Glen of Ogilvie. First I found a death in Dundee for JAMES PRESTON 1835 - 69 years born Glamis. and there had been an Ann Preston died 1827 at 59...also born Glamis...so I think these might have been my JAMES PRESTON who married ANN MCDONALD "at Glamis" in 1808 recorded at Dundee. Now, if you think of it, they would both have been about 40-42 at marriage. So I actually wonder if they had their children before marriage? cant find any. Tried both McDonald and Preston. And my JEAN/JANE PRESTON born about 1810 wouldve been a "miracle'?...maybe she was the only child? I downloaded some birth pages from Glamis for year 1767 and 1764 for Presson and Preston. For JAMES "PRESSON" I get "Presson James son to______ Glen" -oh great. For awhile there I couldnt figure out anything on the page because no surnames were used for father and immediately after father's given name was followed by the locale...very weird. At least I have established that "Prestons/Pressons" were in Glamis at the needed years--1760-1770. just an update of my struggles and thanking you folks for all your help on various queries, Liz of BC Canada

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: class54450 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5550.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Irene, I went back into the records and found that: James Skinner Stewart c. 22 Feb. 1829 Kirrie Susan Stewart c. 29 Mar 1836 Kirrie They were both the children of James and Agnes Adamson Stewart. Since the information was supplied by another researcher, I 'assumed' they were correct, and have not had time to look into myself. I do not have marriage records so I can't go beyond what was given me. Sorry. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Hi Anne Just to be crystal clear, I was not advocating using the transcript on its own, far from it Its imperative to check the original page (which is itself a transcript unfortunately up to 1901) No I was suggesting using the Ancestry census transcript to find the right family before buying the image from scotlandspeople Using scotlandspeople on its own can be a frustrating and expensive business Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) >> When you get round to it do use the Ancestry census >> transcriptions as it can >> cut down the unnecessary expense on scotlandspeople > > But make a mental note to check the originals anyway because > transcriptions can and do contain errors. I have not used the > Ancestry ones, but I have heard about lots of transcription > errors, so don't take anything you find there as gospel. > > Anne

> When you get round to it do use the Ancestry census > transcriptions as it can > cut down the unnecessary expense on scotlandspeople But make a mental note to check the originals anyway because transcriptions can and do contain errors. I have not used the Ancestry ones, but I have heard about lots of transcription errors, so don't take anything you find there as gospel. Anne

Re: [ANGUS] Home Farm Ask and thou shall receive..! Many thanks to Gavin, Anne and Barbara and for directions to the maps. Interesting that Delvine is still noted. I have photographs of the family, taken in front of "the big hoose"...! Many thanks Barbara Neish Bermuda

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: class54450 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5550.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Irene, Thank you for your information. I'll recheck what was given me by a Fyffe ancestor. I'll get back to you. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: IHall6669 Surnames: Stewart, Adamson, Watt, Fyffe Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5550.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: It looks like we might have some connections - I'm still working it out. But there are some problems. You have a Peter born to James STEWART and Agnes ADAMSON in 1834. The only Peter Stewart in the 1834 OPR christening records in Kirriemuir was christened 20 April 1834 to James Stewart and Jean CRICHTON. I do have a connection to James Stewart and Ann WATT as one of their daughters married my grandfather's brother. However, I have not been able to confirm that this James was the son of James Stewart and Agnes Adamson. He is not with them on the 1841 census when he would have been only 11. I have not been able to locate James and Ann after the 1891 census and can't locate a death record for either of them. That, of course, doesn't mean the records don't exist, just that I haven't found them. Do you have any documentation matching the two James'? Also, the Susan who married George FYFFE. You have her b. 1836 (which matches her as age 15 living with her parents on the 1851 census). However, marrying in 1852 would make her only 16 which is unusually young at that time in Kirriemuir. So I went to Scotlandspeople and got her death registration. The Susan Stewart who was married to George Fyffe died in Kirriemuir in 1904, age 71. Her husband was the informant and he gave her parents as (blank) Stewart and Isobel Barrie. The age 71 matches a Susan Stewart ch. in March 1832 to James Stewart and Isobel Barrie. The only additional information I can give you is that the senior James appears on the 1851 census and it gives his birthplace as Dundee and his age as 53. Does that help anything at this time? Irene, in Michigan Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.