good advice Anne and many thanks. Yes, I am searching for further evidence...found that one daughter of Ths Nicoll and Jean Chalmers married a JOHN SPINK in 1820 Dundee. my ancestor, JAMES NICOLL [and Jean Nicoll Spink's sister] and his wife, Margt Ogilvie Robertson had a son named JOHN 1822 "named after uncle-in-law JOHN SPINK" I believe this JOHN SPINK NICOLL was the husband of MARY BAXTER and their children born Dundee between 1856-1867. They too used second given names [great stuff!] such as ROBERTSON, REID, SPINK and CHALMERS. Seems to tie the families together. BTW found Hugh Wallis' site for second names on IGI extremely helpful here. I cannot find on igi or ScotlandP...any marriage for John Spink Nicoll and Mary Baxter but their children are there. and the family is in censuses...he as "John S Nicoll'. > > So yes, it's quite conceivable that your Jean is the daughter of > James Chalmers and Jean Reid, but I'd want to see a little more > evidence to be sure. For example, were the witnesses at the > baptisms of all the children of Thomas Nicoll and Jean Chalmers > named in the baptism records? no witnesses but 'named after" helped here. > Were there any with connections in > Banffshire? Were their relationships to the child recorded? > (This information was sometimes included in Dundee baptisms.) > Are there any other Chalmers in the Howff who might be related > to Jean Chalmers or Nicoll? Or indeed Reids? will continue with looking for burials..thanks again, liz > > Anne

Hi Anne I wasn't going to prolong the agony but as you ask How about place of birth or address in the census for starters Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > > What information do you assert is in the database but not available to > search? Having used the indexes in the GROS since long before any of them > were computerised, I can assure you that all the information in all the > original indexes can be searched in SP, up to the cut-off dates set to > protect living people, from which certain information is omitted. > > Anne

I joined the Tay Valley family history site. living in Lincolnshire I though it would be useful. However I got absolutely nothing out of it. They had nothing online and to get any research done would have meant I would have to travel to Dundee for this. I live in Lincolnshire and am in my late 60's and unable to make the journey there. I had no offer of help or lookups. A waste of money. It is easier to pay a researcher but not as good as doing the donkeywork yourself. Ann

_http://www.ffhs.org.uk/tips/websites.php_ (http://www.ffhs.org.uk/tips/websites.php) federation of family history societies. List of helpful websites. _http://www.genuki.org.uk/_ (http://www.genuki.org.uk/) Genuki... a great hub, which changes frequently. If you think you have all the websites and sources out there... Think again, every day is an invitation to learn! Try something new. The free websites have been growing, so have the charts indexed by surname at the local family history societies. If you don't belong to a Family History Society, and send them a copy of your research, you have no right to complain that there is not enough about your family! Volunteers and membership fees pay BIG Dividends! Volunteer, you don't have to be LDS to work at a local center. Kennedy said "Don't ask what your family history society can do for you, ask yourself what you have contributed? Well, not an actual quote, but it will get cheaper, if we all help. Good Karma makes you feel good too. publish the extra records you get as results. Look how much people like Jim Bundy have helped. I'm not an expert, but I learn something new, and then ask myself "who might also benefit from what I've learned. Anne, Gavin, and Gordon teach us new stuff all the time! What would our list be without such friends. We are all on the same growth chart, you can always benefit from the folks higher on the chart, and give to those folks just starting out... _http://www.safhs.org.uk/_ (http://www.safhs.org.uk/) Association of Scottish Family History Societies.Buy a publication and learn your ancestor's history. History of their trade, wars and epidemics, their living conditions, regiment histories. ____________________________________ From: BRUINSWOOD@aol.com Reply-to: angus@rootsweb.com To: angus@rootsweb.com Sent: 4/6/2009 1:47:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time Subj: Re: [ANGUS] Try again? May I add two pence worth! Lucky, Lucky us!! I am delighted with Scotlandspeople, learning to use wild cards to fix my problem of Powrie Po*rie and Pourie, (an earlier spelling). It just takes practice to learn what website to use. I can find most, but occasionally hit ancestry for census AND Scotlandspeople and use "Find My Past for military. Using two sources, and comparing results is helpful. Footnote gave me much in the way of historical newspapers. Some home they do a better job than Ancestry, which give Powder, Power in newspaper articles. The Scotsman archive is a much better tool. The Perth newspaper index on Ancestry netted a huge number of articles, 550. I had to pay someone to go copy them for me, but I just had to trim the research budget for this summer. I'll be gardening, so I won't feel the loss so much. Genforum has my surname message board, and it hooks many inquiries. I could do some 45-75 records a day at the GROS for my 17 pound entry fee, depending on if I was doing film (OPR), or fiche (civil registration). The English ones cost so much more, and births only list the father. I think we are amazingly lucky to have such resources available to us, and the Howff cemetery info is marvelous. They combined the Tayvalley Family History Society and Friends of Dundee databases. I'm confined to bed most days, and it amazes me how much can be over the Internet. Compared to "boots on the ground" research...it may mean budgeting. Can you imagine folks a 100 years ago looking at what we have today! They'd be dancing in the streets! A plane ticket, car and B&B money/food is so much more, we are blessed beyond measure. I listen to Dougie MacLean on my I-pod and research all day. I do have a budget I have to live within, but go to Scotlandspeople at least ever other day. I'm working through my World War I soldiers, and those records were burned during the Blitz. I only have 7 left out of 54. I get frustrated by a period occasionally not being available for a parish, but all things considered, I rejoice on having Scottish ancestors, with a few English strays. Some of my English cousins go back before 1837, so I have to call them English ancestors and not Scottish strays. What a bounty of heritage is available! We are very lucky indeed. Any news about the Angus burials being finished and online any time soon?? Without ages at death, the 53 new burials are proving to be "tricky" to attach to the right family, but I'm grateful to have them!! I now research my Powries 24/7. Each of these website's have strong and weak points, but Thanks to God we have all these tools to uncover our heritage! Scotlandspeople adding continually makes me want to send Thank You notes to the workers. Volunteers at other places have worked miracles adding to our choices! Like the Monument Inscriptions books, what a labour of love for our benefit. I have 17 stones for Powries in Perth and Angus, but the death and burial records have multiplied six times what I knew. SCRAN is one of my favorite subscriptions. They have added documents to their photo collection. RCAHMS is free but requires a registration. I love the mapping programs too, but bought a set of 1850's era reproduction. I copied them at Kinkos, so I could mark a set up. Too many results or too expensive.... Imagine what a researcher 100 years ago would say about such a discussion? I use the LDS/familysearch too, and used to volunteer out of gratitude. Hope I can get back to that, and traveling. First I've a book to finish. I'm finishing Scotland with My soldiers. Find My Past website told me more than the PRO website at Kew. I found Waterloo soldiers, and South African campaign ones from the Boer War. the Commonwealth Graves Commission has most of the Killed in battle soldiers, but stops WWI in August, 1945, and I have soldiers killed after that date. They don't cover the Boer War or other conflicts before WWI. What a toolbox of resources are to be had on the Internet! Not to mention being able to "talk" to cousins and friends around the planet. While we're sniping at what's wrong, let us also rejoice in what others have given us! Happy Tartan Day, Mary in Oregon In a message dated 4/6/2009 7:35:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ovington1@sky.com writes: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" so goes the saying :-) We can make our calculations suit our needs and its very hard to draw a direct comparison between the two different systems of England/Wales & Scotland English/Welsh certs are 7gbp and you cannot look at the details or have them transcribed without buying the certificate, unlike Scotland where you can My point was not the cost but the fact I have never bought a wrong certificate as I am able to confirm its the right one by use of access to the census and civil registration indexes as a main stay With scotlandspeople I am forced to buy searches for totally unconnected people in the hope my target might be among them, once I think I have identified it, I can then buy the image, only then am I likely to know with any certainty if its my target or not I have just totted up roughly what Ancestry subscription has cost me over the last six years, answer approximately 454gbp For that I have been able to use it 24/7 at any time I wished, I have saved thousands of images (*at no extra charge*) in that time and along with my own research have been able to help many others along the way , I just checked my main folder for census images and have in excess of 1,040 there plus many more in other folders Using the same calculation as you used that makes it .44 pence per image if I count only those in my main census folder That does not count the access I have to the full birth marriage and deaths indexes, Scottish census transcripts, WW1 medal cards and service records, directories etc etc (the list is to huge to repeat) at no further cost It kind of knocks scotlandspeople into a cocked hat As I said previously I don't mind paying if I am getting what I pay for, I wouldn't buy ten pairs of trousers in the hope that one pair might fit me because the vendor hid the labels ;-) We will have to agree to disagree on this as I am sure others are heartily bored by it Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Nivard, We are probably average users of the Scotland's People [ScP] service and it's always seemed to be very good value for money. All Sheena's family were Scottish so we have been very focussed on ScP. Since 2002 I have downloaded 370+ images of which about 200+ were relevant. I have had nearly 700 pages of search hits. Total cost £510. This works out at about £2.50 per image - considerably cheaper than English ones. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621488x1201450096/aol?redir=http: %2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621488x1201450096/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)

May I add two pence worth! Lucky, Lucky us!! I am delighted with Scotlandspeople, learning to use wild cards to fix my problem of Powrie Po*rie and Pourie, (an earlier spelling). It just takes practice to learn what website to use. I can find most, but occasionally hit ancestry for census AND Scotlandspeople and use "Find My Past for military. Using two sources, and comparing results is helpful. Footnote gave me much in the way of historical newspapers. Some home they do a better job than Ancestry, which give Powder, Power in newspaper articles. The Scotsman archive is a much better tool. The Perth newspaper index on Ancestry netted a huge number of articles, 550. I had to pay someone to go copy them for me, but I just had to trim the research budget for this summer. I'll be gardening, so I won't feel the loss so much. Genforum has my surname message board, and it hooks many inquiries. I could do some 45-75 records a day at the GROS for my 17 pound entry fee, depending on if I was doing film (OPR), or fiche (civil registration). The English ones cost so much more, and births only list the father. I think we are amazingly lucky to have such resources available to us, and the Howff cemetery info is marvelous. They combined the Tayvalley Family History Society and Friends of Dundee databases. I'm confined to bed most days, and it amazes me how much can be over the Internet. Compared to "boots on the ground" research...it may mean budgeting. Can you imagine folks a 100 years ago looking at what we have today! They'd be dancing in the streets! A plane ticket, car and B&B money/food is so much more, we are blessed beyond measure. I listen to Dougie MacLean on my I-pod and research all day. I do have a budget I have to live within, but go to Scotlandspeople at least ever other day. I'm working through my World War I soldiers, and those records were burned during the Blitz. I only have 7 left out of 54. I get frustrated by a period occasionally not being available for a parish, but all things considered, I rejoice on having Scottish ancestors, with a few English strays. Some of my English cousins go back before 1837, so I have to call them English ancestors and not Scottish strays. What a bounty of heritage is available! We are very lucky indeed. Any news about the Angus burials being finished and online any time soon?? Without ages at death, the 53 new burials are proving to be "tricky" to attach to the right family, but I'm grateful to have them!! I now research my Powries 24/7. Each of these website's have strong and weak points, but Thanks to God we have all these tools to uncover our heritage! Scotlandspeople adding continually makes me want to send Thank You notes to the workers. Volunteers at other places have worked miracles adding to our choices! Like the Monument Inscriptions books, what a labour of love for our benefit. I have 17 stones for Powries in Perth and Angus, but the death and burial records have multiplied six times what I knew. SCRAN is one of my favorite subscriptions. They have added documents to their photo collection. RCAHMS is free but requires a registration. I love the mapping programs too, but bought a set of 1850's era reproduction. I copied them at Kinkos, so I could mark a set up. Too many results or too expensive.... Imagine what a researcher 100 years ago would say about such a discussion? I use the LDS/familysearch too, and used to volunteer out of gratitude. Hope I can get back to that, and traveling. First I've a book to finish. I'm finishing Scotland with My soldiers. Find My Past website told me more than the PRO website at Kew. I found Waterloo soldiers, and South African campaign ones from the Boer War. the Commonwealth Graves Commission has most of the Killed in battle soldiers, but stops WWI in August, 1945, and I have soldiers killed after that date. They don't cover the Boer War or other conflicts before WWI. What a toolbox of resources are to be had on the Internet! Not to mention being able to "talk" to cousins and friends around the planet. While we're sniping at what's wrong, let us also rejoice in what others have given us! Happy Tartan Day, Mary in Oregon In a message dated 4/6/2009 7:35:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ovington1@sky.com writes: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" so goes the saying :-) We can make our calculations suit our needs and its very hard to draw a direct comparison between the two different systems of England/Wales & Scotland English/Welsh certs are 7gbp and you cannot look at the details or have them transcribed without buying the certificate, unlike Scotland where you can My point was not the cost but the fact I have never bought a wrong certificate as I am able to confirm its the right one by use of access to the census and civil registration indexes as a main stay With scotlandspeople I am forced to buy searches for totally unconnected people in the hope my target might be among them, once I think I have identified it, I can then buy the image, only then am I likely to know with any certainty if its my target or not I have just totted up roughly what Ancestry subscription has cost me over the last six years, answer approximately 454gbp For that I have been able to use it 24/7 at any time I wished, I have saved thousands of images (*at no extra charge*) in that time and along with my own research have been able to help many others along the way , I just checked my main folder for census images and have in excess of 1,040 there plus many more in other folders Using the same calculation as you used that makes it .44 pence per image if I count only those in my main census folder That does not count the access I have to the full birth marriage and deaths indexes, Scottish census transcripts, WW1 medal cards and service records, directories etc etc (the list is to huge to repeat) at no further cost It kind of knocks scotlandspeople into a cocked hat As I said previously I don't mind paying if I am getting what I pay for, I wouldn't buy ten pairs of trousers in the hope that one pair might fit me because the vendor hid the labels ;-) We will have to agree to disagree on this as I am sure others are heartily bored by it Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Nivard, We are probably average users of the Scotland's People [ScP] service and it's always seemed to be very good value for money. All Sheena's family were Scottish so we have been very focussed on ScP. Since 2002 I have downloaded 370+ images of which about 200+ were relevant. I have had nearly 700 pages of search hits. Total cost £510. This works out at about £2.50 per image - considerably cheaper than English ones. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621488x1201450096/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)

> Its the dumbing down of the search engine on > scotlandspeople that really > aggravates me, they restrict the fields to search on so you > are forced to > pay out for meaningless unconnected hits, the fields of > data are there to be > searched on in the database and if allowed you could get to > the target > person without having to buy several pages of unconnected > hits What information do you assert is in the database but not available to search? Having used the indexes in the GROS since long before any of them were computerised, I can assure you that all the information in all the original indexes can be searched in SP, up to the cut-off dates set to protect living people, from which certain information is omitted. Anne

I'm overwhelmed. My very tentative query has produced an avalanche and I am encouraged to Try Again. As there has been questions raised about my back ups, or the implied lack of them, it might be instructive to spell out my original crash problem and the subsequent hassle of trying to retrieve my lost data. First, the crash. .A corrupted mother board either had to be repaired or I purchase a new computer. I opted for the latter, and my computer workshop started work on the transfers from the old to the new. All went smoothly except that my FTM programme (version 6) refused to move. No problem as I had the installation disc, but it too was unacceptable to my new machine. At the same time it was noticed that my DVD family tree backup discs wouldn't open, nor would saved data from my external hard disc. I also had all relevant data saved in print, but that back up was operationally static. (I kept my memory stick out of the backup picture as it was in use for day to day copying) So, If I wanted to continue with my research I would need a new FTM programme which I bought (FTM 2009) It too was inactive as far as opening my back ups were concerned. Next - FTM Help. After a lenghthy correspondence I was told, almost as an after thought, that my new FTM 2009 did not support FTM Version 6 containing my four family trees. Solution - download FTM 2005 for a 14 day free trial. This programme, I was assured would act as a go-between which it did, and that brings me back to the present where I am now rarin' to go. It seems a long narrative not directly concerned with trying again, bur someone somewhere may find my experiences useful. Alistair in Kent England

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" so goes the saying :-) We can make our calculations suit our needs and its very hard to draw a direct comparison between the two different systems of England/Wales & Scotland English/Welsh certs are 7gbp and you cannot look at the details or have them transcribed without buying the certificate, unlike Scotland where you can My point was not the cost but the fact I have never bought a wrong certificate as I am able to confirm its the right one by use of access to the census and civil registration indexes as a main stay With scotlandspeople I am forced to buy searches for totally unconnected people in the hope my target might be among them, once I think I have identified it, I can then buy the image, only then am I likely to know with any certainty if its my target or not I have just totted up roughly what Ancestry subscription has cost me over the last six years, answer approximately 454gbp For that I have been able to use it 24/7 at any time I wished, I have saved thousands of images (*at no extra charge*) in that time and along with my own research have been able to help many others along the way , I just checked my main folder for census images and have in excess of 1,040 there plus many more in other folders Using the same calculation as you used that makes it .44 pence per image if I count only those in my main census folder That does not count the access I have to the full birth marriage and deaths indexes, Scottish census transcripts, WW1 medal cards and service records, directories etc etc (the list is to huge to repeat) at no further cost It kind of knocks scotlandspeople into a cocked hat As I said previously I don't mind paying if I am getting what I pay for, I wouldn't buy ten pairs of trousers in the hope that one pair might fit me because the vendor hid the labels ;-) We will have to agree to disagree on this as I am sure others are heartily bored by it Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) Nivard, We are probably average users of the Scotland's People [ScP] service and it's always seemed to be very good value for money. All Sheena's family were Scottish so we have been very focussed on ScP. Since 2002 I have downloaded 370+ images of which about 200+ were relevant. I have had nearly 700 pages of search hits. Total cost £510. This works out at about £2.50 per image - considerably cheaper than English ones.

Heather, Just in case this helps - not sure if you still have the Ancestry access but a couple of points may help. Or may not... 1. Always make sure you tick the box "Exact matches only" - if you don't, then it will look for "Goodwin born 1839 b. Kington", first, then "Goodwin born 1839", i.e. born anywhere, then "Goodwin b. Kington" at any time... (Or some such order of searching) Even if you want Soundex searching (i.e. not-quite-the-right-spelling), leave that "Exact matches only" ticked. Whenever I get lots, it's usually because I've unticked the box. 2. The 1841 census doesn't actually include place of birth - not even the county unless it's the same as the residence so adding this as a search item wouldn't trim anything down and - if you got anything - it would cover the whole of the UK. Then again, you may know this already... (Adding Herefordshire as a place of birth would only find Herefordshire born people in Herefordshire. Go over the county border and all they will have on the original is "N" for "Not born in this county" Adrian -----Original Message----- From: angus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:angus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Heather Canevaro Sent: Mon 06 April 2009 14:01 To: angus@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Try again? I am sorry I have to disagree Nivard. Perhaps it is just my luck with my family's names, but I find that Ancestry returns way too many hits to be useable. For instance I searched for a Goodwin born 1839 b. Kington in the 1841 census, And I had over 100 pages or something similar of every Goodwin born in every county except Herefordshire! This has happened on lots of the searches I have done all over the place. I also feel that Ancestry subs are quite expensive if you have a limited family to search. If I was doing a one name study that would be different. I have found Scotlands People to be quite cost effective, especially compared to some of the newer sites, that charge an exorbitant amount to view images. Heather in Canada <snipped>

Hi Heather Searching the 1841 census on Ancestry for GOODWIN as a surname and Kington as a keyword (as birth places are not enumerated in 1841 you can't search on that) gets 29 hits If you further reduce that by selecting the County of residence as Herefordshire it gives 23 hits I would place bets on you having the box for "exact matches only" unticked More than happy to go through it with you if you wish Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) >I am sorry I have to disagree Nivard. Perhaps it is just my luck with my > family's names, but I find that Ancestry returns way too many hits to be > useable. For instance I searched for a Goodwin born 1839 b. Kington in > the 1841 census, And I had over 100 pages or something similar of every > Goodwin born in every county except Herefordshire! This has happened on > lots of the searches I have done all over the place. I also feel that > Ancestry subs are quite expensive if you have a limited family to > search. If I was doing a one name study that would be different. I have > found Scotlands People to be quite cost effective, especially compared > to some of the newer sites, that charge an exorbitant amount to view > images. > > Heather in Canada

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: SueHemburyKellow1999 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/2800.1.1.1.1.2.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello Allan, Long time no hear! What a good idea - I'll be happy to help in any way I can. If you would like to contact me at my home email address susan (at) avalon1999 (dot) co (dot) uk I'll be happy to go through my records and give you what info I can. (Hope you can make sense of my encoded email address!). Look forward to hearing from you again, Best wishes, Sue Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Alastair I suggest that when you log back into Scotlands People you'll be able to print down all the previously paid for extracts again as they stay with the site under your login. Seems like a good place to start. Good luck and back up regularly onto a flash drive or something. Margaret Qld, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alistair Macdonald" <alistair.macdonald@btinternet.com> To: "Angus Roots Web" <ANGUS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 12:40 AM Subject: [ANGUS] Try again? >I hope this is the right department. If not, silence will confirm it. About >a year ago faced with brick walls in four families, and getting back no >further than the early 1700's, I decided to give it a rest. Some three >months ago after a computer crash in which I lost my entire family tree >programme and all family data, not even being able to view my carefully >preserved CD back ups, I was tempted to scrub the lot, but after following >some threads in this group a spark of enthusiasm was raised. I bought the >latest Family Tree Maker programme and was rewarded with a three month's >free trial of Ancestry. If I decide to restart my searches I know that when >signed on, Scotland's People will show me with over 100 credits, Everything >seems to be in my favour, but where do I start? Try again in the BDM >departments; engage in more battles with LDS family search, or go back to >my listed genealogy sites? Or where? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Alistair > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

2009/4/6 Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com>: <snipped> > you are forced to pay out for meaningless unconnected hits, the fields of data are there to be searched on in the database and if allowed you could get to the target person without having to buy several pages of unconnected hits looking for > ... ... ... > English certs are seven pounds each and I have never ordered one that was not mine, I have lost count of how many wrong pages I have downloaded from scotlandspeople, they may be cheaper but I have wasted far more money there than any other site Nivard, We are probably average users of the Scotland's People [ScP] service and it's always seemed to be very good value for money. All Sheena's family were Scottish so we have been very focussed on ScP. Since 2002 I have downloaded 370+ images of which about 200+ were relevant. I have had nearly 700 pages of search hits. Total cost £510. This works out at about £2.50 per image - considerably cheaper than English ones. Added to which by widening the search criteria to ensure that my hit-pages are nearly full, I am able to look for siblings and descendants on the same page. I don't expect to know enough about someone to be able to precisely hit them so the slightly approximate ScP search suits fine. > With a subscription to Ancestry you can search anything within their databases with no further expense, I have downloaded literally hundreds of pages of the census, its a pity that scotlandspeople don't have a similar method of use or allow Ancestry to have access to the images What would my six years have cost on Ancestry? From the website it looks like either £900 paying monthly or £650 by paying annually. This in addition to the £1400 for the images. So: Ancestry £2050-2300 ScP £510 = No contest. And how often are the listings Ancestry provide subject to typos and indexing errors. I've had three errors on ScP two of which they corrected immediately [I didn't notify the other as it turned out to be irrelevant]. I think ScP provide a really cost-effective solution to making all their records available as on-line images not transcriptions. A major benefit! -- Best wishes Ray ********************************************************** >From Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net **********************************************************

John Waite wrote: >I hope someone can help with a question on a Baptism record. > >I found a baptism record on Scotlands people circa 1820. In brackets at >the end of the entry it has the word (neglected). > >I thought it funny that this would be included even if the child was >neglected, then noted that the same thing had been included on several >other baptisms on the same page. I find it hard to believe that half the >children baptised in the village would be neglected in the modern sense >of the word. > >My question is what does this mean, does it have an other meaning? > > It does indeed. The usage of "neglect" in the sense of "not treat well" is comparitively modern. The older meaning is rather wider, and means something like "fail to do". If there was a draught at the back of your neck, it was probably because you had "neglected" to close the door. With regard to baptisms, the term was used around 1820 (when there was an overhaul of the Kirk's rules about Registers) and again around 1855, when it became known that the Kirk's Registers would have to be submitted to the Registrar General. At both periods, there is evidence, in the Baptismal Registers, of a lot of hurried "catching up", when efforts were made to collect a record of baptisms which people had, for various reasons, "neglected" to record at the proper time. Gavin Bell

Harvie Abmittedly later than your folks in question but I have a Christina Fraser of that area married in McDuff (just down the road from Banff) in 1853 to her seaman husband William Shanks and then residing evermore in Aberdeen and Arbroath. Truth to tell, some girls will do most anything for a handsome lad in a uniform! BTW - 'Jas' is short for James Regards Judith Harper Nelson, NZ Harvie Barker wrote: > I wonder if it is logical to assume that a family found in Banff, 1750+ > would then move to Dundee? or at least the female for a Dundee marriage > in 1785? > > strangely, I had begun to think that once in Dundee, always from > Dundee, but am finding something different, of course. > > First, I believe that THOMAS NICOLL, said to be born Rhynd, was my > ancestor with the rest of the his descendents in Dundee to 1901 and > beyond > > and secondly, I am wondering if CHALMERS family of Banff, became my > JEAN CHALMERS who married Thomas Nicoll 1785 in Dundee. Everything > "fits" so well, such that Jean/Jane Chalmers born in 1760 was child of > "James Chalmers and a wife JEAN REID....so began the use of "Reid" as a > second given name for 3 or more generations of Nicolls?? [no other > evidence of Reid yet] > The very hard-to-read marriage entry has her father as "Jas"? > > Jean Chalmers Nicoll died 1847 age 87, at Kirkstyle, Kinfauns, > Perthshire, and burial entry confirmed her spouse as 'THOMAS NICOLL, > Blockmaker, Dundee" [who could ask for more?] > > I cannot find Jean Chalmers Nicoll [likely Jane] in 1841 yet because I > doubt she was in Dundee after the death of her husband in January 1841 > [how dare he die before the census was taken?] > > any tips here? thanks Liz of BC Canada > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Lesley I also noticed the oddity on the Soldiers that Died returns for Theatre of War The majority seem to state Aldershot with some British Expeditionary Force and a few others, I don't think its a transcript error, rather a database field selection error as far as I can see As I already had the Soldiers that Died for my people I had not until now thought to question where that (Aldershot) comes from, I have now mailed Ancestry for an explanation and will let you know what the outcome is As to transcript errors, I have found Ancestry no worse than any other supplier of online information such as findmypast or the genealogist etc, the difference I find is that with Ancestry you have a chance to find people with others you have little chance Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > I aquired an Ancestry sub as a birthday present and have been both > > amused and annoyed to see that their reputation for typos is well > deserved. > > One of the most annoying (indeed somewhat offensive) thus far has been > > the major mistake in their transcription of Soldier Who Died in the Great > War, > > where they show most men as having died in Aldershot rather than the > > actual battlefield or area. > > I'm using it, like the IGI and other transcriptions, to narrow > possibilities > > before checking the orig8inals on SP. > > > > Lesley Robertson

Anne Burgess wrote: >... > >It is also essential to be aware that just because you have >found on a map a place name matching the one you are looking >for, it isn't necessarily the right place. The same place names >are found all over the country, so unless the place you have >found is definitely in the same parish as the event you have >found, you cannot assume that it is. > > To that I would add that place names do tend to change and /or move over time. What I have observed is that the "base" name of a place (Kinfauns or Delvine, to take two topical examples) tends to be remarkably persistent over long periods of time, but that the "qualifiers" to that name (Upper, Lower, Easter, Home Farm of etc) tend to be much more volatile, with the one farm or building sometimes being known by different names over the course of a century or two. But I have also come across instances where a "big hoose" has been replaced by a new build half a mile away - and has taken the old name with it! >... > >Your next port of call is the Victorian six-inch-to-the-mile >Ordnance Survey maps published in the 1870s. These can be viewed >online at http://www.nls.uk/maps/os/index.html and at >www.old-maps.co.uk > >Of the two, I find the NLS site very irritating, because even >after selecting the six-inch series and the county and parish, >the system produces a one-inch series map and you have to zoom >in repeatedly to get to the map you selected in the first place. >Old-maps is more difficult initially, but once you know how it >works you can go straight to where you want to be at the scale >you want. > > I would suggest it is worth getting the hang of the NLS site, because it is free, and (if you choose the "Google-Maps Overlay" display) gives you something like a full-screen image of the map concerned, which you can capture and print. Old-Maps, on the other hand, gives only a small, fuzzy, onscreen image, in hopes that you will lay out £20 for a printout or download. Gavin Bell

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: grassman48 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/2800.1.1.1.1.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello Sue, Would like to re establish contact regarding Cable tree as I am writing a book on the family during 2009. Thank you, regards Allan Steel. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Hi Gavin Putting the silly political comment to one side as its not the forum for it My grouse is not that they charge, I know that any service needs to be paid for and am prepared to pay where needed if and when I have the funds to do so Its the dumbing down of the search engine on scotlandspeople that really aggravates me, they restrict the fields to search on so you are forced to pay out for meaningless unconnected hits, the fields of data are there to be searched on in the database and if allowed you could get to the target person without having to buy several pages of unconnected hits They would not lose out by making the search more usable as people would use it the same amount but be more satisfied and I suspect spend more in fact, I know I would if I knew I would be more likely to get the result I was looking for English certs are seven pounds each and I have never ordered one that was not mine, I have lost count of how many wrong pages I have downloaded from scotlandspeople, they may be cheaper but I have wasted far more money there than any other site With a subscription to Ancestry you can search anything within their databases with no further expense, I have downloaded literally hundreds of pages of the census, its a pity that scotlandspeople don't have a similar method of use or allow Ancestry to have access to the images Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK) > I don't think GROS decided all of their own volition to charge for > access - they were obliged, like many other public bodies, such as the > Ordnance Survey, to cover their costs from revenue (I seem to recall

From: anne.burgess@btinternet.com > To: angus@rootsweb.com; ANGUS-L@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 20:13:52 +0100 > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Try again? > > > When you get round to it do use the Ancestry census > > transcriptions as it can > > cut down the unnecessary expense on scotlandspeople > > But make a mental note to check the originals anyway because > transcriptions can and do contain errors. I have not used the > Ancestry ones, but I have heard about lots of transcription > errors, so don't take anything you find there as gospel. > I aquired an Ancestry sub as a birthday present and have been both amused and annoyed to see that their reputation for typos is well deserved. One of the most annoying (indeed somewhat offensive) thus far has been the major mistake in their transcription of Soldier Who Died in the Great War, where they show most men as having died in Aldershot rather than the actual battlefield or area. I'm using it, like the IGI and other transcriptions, to narrow possibilities before checking the orig8inals on SP. Lesley Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/