Thank you to everyone who has given me hints/opinions on Jane's middle name :) Doreen, Thank you so much for looking this up and for your very kind offer. For the moment I will wander around myself ....perhaps (if they are of an age) Alexander may have been a witness to Cranston's marriage ...... if I get really lost I will contact you, if you don't mind. Thank you again Helen -----Original Message----- From: angus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:angus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of DOREEN CUTHBERT Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:24 PM To: angus@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath Hi Helen, a bit more info - in 1901 Cranston Ramsay and his family lived at 23 Union St, Dundee. At 19 Union St, there were three brothers called Fenton (Andrew, Thomas and William) - From the 1881 census, all three brothers are living with their parents, and there is an older brother called Alexander. He's not with them in 1901, but he could be the person you are looking for. If you don't have access to ancestry, and you need anything else, get back to me. Doreen --- On Thu, 7/5/09, Helen <nell1@sympatico.ca> wrote: > From: Helen <nell1@sympatico.ca> > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath > To: angus@rootsweb.com > Date: Thursday, 7 May, 2009, 1:17 PM > Hi - I have a long-standing FENTON mystery. My g-uncle > George D'ALL married > Jane Alexander Fenton RAMSAY. Jane was born 22 June 1912 in > Dundee to > Cranston RAMSAY & and Elizabeth Stewart ROSS, both of > whom were also born in > Dundee - Cranston the son of Robert RAMSAY & Jessie > WILLIAMSON (m 3 June > 1851, Arbroath), Elizabeth the daughter of Robert ROSS > & Maria HOLLAND. > > I have not been able to determine why FENTON appears in > Jane's name, unless > it was perhaps the surname of a friend. > > Helen > In Montreal > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2101 - Release > Date: 05/06/09 > 17:58:00 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2101 - Release Date: 05/07/09 05:57:00

Hi Lee, Jane Wilson Lumgair was the daughter of David Wilson Lumgair &Wilhelmina McKay. David Wilson Lumgair was David Wightman Lumgair & Christina Wilson's son. Married George Fenton 1928 in St Mary Dundee Angus Scotland. regards Lyn 2009/5/7 lee walmsley <mlw@bigpond.net.au> > Hello Lyn: > Your Jane Wilson LUMGAIR. Is she the same Jane Wilson LUMGAIR who was the > daughter of David Wightman LUMGAIR and Christina WILSON? > > Regards > Lee Walmsley ms Wightman Perth West. Australia. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lyn Hansch" <winalape@gmail.com> > To: <angus@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 8:09 AM > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath > > > > I also have George Fenton no dates yet who married Jane Wilson Lumgair in > > 1928 St Mary Dundee. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Frank, Mark, I can't take credit for the content (or accuracy!) of the quote - just came across it and thought it was very apt. regards Pat "What is this life, if full of care, We have no time to stand and stare ..." W. H. Davies, Leisure -----Original Message----- From: angus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:angus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mark Whitton Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 9:00 PM To: angus@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ANGUS] The origins of surnames Hello Pat, I get the point but just for the sake of accuracy it's your 7 times Great Grand parents that you have 512 of and 8 times Great Grand parents that there are 1024 of. Apologies for being a wee bit pedantic Mark.

Hello Pat, I get the point but just for the sake of accuracy it's your 7 times Great Grand parents that you have 512 of and 8 times Great Grand parents that there are 1024 of. Apologies for being a wee bit pedantic Mark. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Carson" <patcarsonp@hotmail.com> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com>; <angus@rootsweb.com>; <tay-valley-bridges@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: [ANGUS] The origins of surnames >I was browsing for surname information and on a discussion board, along >with > all the usual (mainly erroneous) explanations and misconceptions, came > across this response: > > I might add one of the biggest mistakes a person can make when starting > their family history is to get overly involved in their name. Your surname > is a very tiny part of your ancestry. The number of people you descend > from > pyramids as you go back. Get back to your 6xGreat Grandparents, barring > any > duplicates, you are directly descended from 510 individuals. Of those 510 > individuals only 8 of them will probably have your surname. Now, it is > possible for one of your other ancestors to have married someone with the > same surname whether in the family or not, but without any duplicates 502 > will not have your surname. > > Get back to your 7xgreat grandparents you come out of 1012 individuals > (that > is 10 generations including yourself). Again barring any duplicates only 9 > will have your surname leaving out 1003 people. > > Kiddo you have a lot of kin. > > Sort of puts it in perspective! > > > > Pat Carson > > > > Researching > > ADAMSON, STIRLING, KINNEAR in Forfar & Dundee > > KEY, FORD in Coastal Angus & Dundee > > NEAVE in Haddington & Forfar > > MILLER in Dundee > > CONWAY in Ireland, Ayrshire & Dundee > > FISHER in Ayrshire & Dundee > > NICOLSON in Speyside, Aberdeen & Dundee > > REILLY in Ireland & Dundee > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2102 - Release Date: 05/07/09 05:57:00

I was browsing for surname information and on a discussion board, along with all the usual (mainly erroneous) explanations and misconceptions, came across this response: I might add one of the biggest mistakes a person can make when starting their family history is to get overly involved in their name. Your surname is a very tiny part of your ancestry. The number of people you descend from pyramids as you go back. Get back to your 6xGreat Grandparents, barring any duplicates, you are directly descended from 510 individuals. Of those 510 individuals only 8 of them will probably have your surname. Now, it is possible for one of your other ancestors to have married someone with the same surname whether in the family or not, but without any duplicates 502 will not have your surname. Get back to your 7xgreat grandparents you come out of 1012 individuals (that is 10 generations including yourself). Again barring any duplicates only 9 will have your surname leaving out 1003 people. Kiddo you have a lot of kin. Sort of puts it in perspective! Pat Carson Researching ADAMSON, STIRLING, KINNEAR in Forfar & Dundee KEY, FORD in Coastal Angus & Dundee NEAVE in Haddington & Forfar MILLER in Dundee CONWAY in Ireland, Ayrshire & Dundee FISHER in Ayrshire & Dundee NICOLSON in Speyside, Aberdeen & Dundee REILLY in Ireland & Dundee

Thank you so very much Richard! Donna Stollery stollerytogo@hotmail.com #104 3400 Wilson Street Penticton, BC Canada V2A8E3 (250)493-8559 > From: r.laurence@ntlworld.com > To: angus@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:01:18 +0100 > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] CAMPBELL, IRVINE, PETRIE, ETAL > > Hope this Helps > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 1851 Scotland Census > > Name: Niel Campbell > Age: 25 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 > Relationship: Servant > Gender: Male > Where born: Jura, Argyle > Parish Number: 539 > Civil Parish: Jura > County: Argyll > Address: 1 Feoline > Occupation: Farm Lab > ED: 2 > Page: 13 (click to see others on page) > Household schedule number: 54 > Line: 19 > Roll: CSSCT1851_114 > Household Members: Name Age > Niel MacLeod 45 > Margaret MacLeod 33 > Jessie C MacLeod 12 > Archibald MacLeod 10 > Patrick MacLeod 7 > Margaret C F MacLeod 4 > Elisabeth MacLeod 2 > Archibald MacLeod 90 > Janet MacLeod 85 > Niel Campbell 25 > Malcom McCraine 22 > Alexr Dunlop 29 > Colin Niven 17 > Mary McCorrie 50 > Mary MacColl 19 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 1861 Scotland Census > > Name: Neil Campbell > Age: 29 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832 > Relationship: Head > Spouse's name : Jessie > Gender: Male > Where born: Jura, Argyleshire > Registration Number: 275/1 > Registration district: Brechin Burgh > Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh > County: Angus > Address: 8 Dam Acre Road > Occupation: Sergeant Of Police > ED: 2 > Household schedule number: 184 > Line: 12 > Roll: CSSCT1861_37 > Household Members: Name Age > Neil Campbell 29 > Jessie Campbell 24 > Mary Jane Campbell 1 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Jessie Campbell > Age: 24 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837 > Relationship: Wife > Spouse's name : Neil > Gender: Female > Where born: Killin, Perthshire > Registration Number: 275/1 > Registration district: Brechin Burgh > Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh > County: Angus > Address: 8 Dam Acre Road > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Mary Jane Campbell > Age: 1 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 > Relationship: Daughter > Father's Name: Neil > Mother's Name: Jessie > Gender: Female > Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire > Registration Number: 275/1 > Registration district: Brechin Burgh > Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh > County: Angus > Address: 8 Dam Acre Road > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > No Alexander > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 1871 Scotland Census > > Name: Neil Campbell > Age: 40 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 > Relationship: Head > Spouse's name : Jessie > Gender: Male > Where born: Jura, Argyllshire > Registration Number: 275/1 > Registration district: Brechin Burgh > Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh > County: Angus > Address: High St > Occupation: Superintendent Of Police > ED: 1 > Household schedule number: 44 > Line: 11 > Roll: CSSCT1871_48 > Household Members: Name Age > Neil Campbell 40 > Jessie Campbell 35 > Mary Jane Campbell 11 > Archibald C Campbell 8 > Neil McLeod Campbell 6 > Alice Mar Campbell 4 > Clemintina C Campbell 10 Mo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: Jessie Campbell > Age: 35 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836 > Relationship: Wife > Spouse's name : Neil > Gender: Female > Where born: Kellin, Perthshire > Registration Number: 275/1 > Registration district: Brechin Burgh > Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh > County: Angus > Address: High St > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Mary Jane Campbell > Age: 11 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 > Relationship: Daughter > Father's Name: Neil > Mother's Name: Jessie > Gender: Female > Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire > Registration Number: 275/1 > Registration district: Brechin Burgh > Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh > County: Angus > Address: High St > Occupation: Scholar > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Archibald C Campbell > Age: 8 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863 > Relationship: Son > Father's Name: Neil > Mother's Name: Jessie > Gender: Male > Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire > Registration Number: 275/1 > Registration district: Brechin Burgh > Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh > County: Angus > Address: High St > Occupation: Scholar > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Neil McLeod Campbell > Age: 6 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865 > Relationship: Son > Father's Name: Neil > Mother's Name: Jessie > Gender: Male > Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire > Registration Number: 275/1 > Registration district: Brechin Burgh > Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh > County: Angus > Address: High St > Occupation: Scholar > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Alice Mar Campbell > Age: 4 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867 > Relationship: Daughter > Father's Name: Neil > Mother's Name: Jessie > Gender: Female > Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire > Registration Number: 275/1 > Registration district: Brechin Burgh > Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh > County: Angus > Address: High St > Occupation: Scholar > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Clemintina C Campbell > Age: 10 Mo > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870 > Relationship: Daughter > Father's Name: Neil > Mother's Name: Jessie > Gender: Female > Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire > Registration Number: 275/1 > Registration district: Brechin Burgh > Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh > County: Angus > Address: High St > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 1881 Scotland Census > Name: Neil Campbell > Age: 50 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 > Relationship: Head > Gender: Male > Where born: Juva G, Argyleshire > Registration Number: 275 > Registration district: Brechin > Civil Parish: Brechin > Town: Brechin > County: Angus > Occupation: Gardener Jobbing > ED: 4 > Household schedule number: 141 > Line: 15 > Roll: cssct1881_78 > Household Members: Name Age > Neil Campbell 50 > Archd C Campbell 18 > Neil Mc Leod Campbell 16 > Alice Campbell 13 > Clementina Campbell 10 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Archd C Campbell > Age: 18 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863 > Relationship: Son > Father's Name: Neil > Gender: Male > Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire > Registration Number: 275 > Registration district: Brechin > Civil Parish: Brechin > Town: Brechin > County: Angus > Occupation: Linen Factory Worker > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Neil Mc Leod Campbell > Age: 16 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865 > Relationship: Son > Father's Name: Neil > Gender: Male > Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire > Registration Number: 275 > Registration district: Brechin > Civil Parish: Brechin > Town: Brechin > County: Angus > Occupation: Butcher'S Assistant > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Alice Campbell > Age: 13 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 > Relationship: Daughter > Father's Name: Neil > Gender: Female > Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire > Registration Number: 275 > Registration district: Brechin > Civil Parish: Brechin > Town: Brechin > County: Angus > Occupation: Scholar > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Clementina Campbell > Age: 10 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871 > Relationship: Daughter > Father's Name: Neil > Gender: Female > Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire > Registration Number: 275 > Registration district: Brechin > Civil Parish: Brechin > Town: Brechin > County: Angus > Occupation: Scholar > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Can not fine Niel Campbell on my 1891 Census > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Stollery" <stollerytogo@hotmail.com> > To: <angus@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:43 AM > Subject: [ANGUS] CAMPBELL, IRVINE, PETRIE, ETAL > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I have been researching my grandfather's family tree...Campbell. Any > > > > help would certainly be appreciated. > > > > > > > > Campbell, Neil married Irvine, Jessie (Janet) 1857, Dundee > > > > b: 1824, Jura b: 1835, Killin > > > > d: 1899, Brechin d: 1872, 109 River St., Brechin > > > > Almshouse, Infirmary St. > > > > -Neil was Sgt. of Police and Superintendant of Police, Brechin > > > > > > > > Children: > > > > Alexander b: 1858, Damacre Rd., Brechin > > > > Mary Jane b: 1859, Damacre Rd., Brechin > > > > Archibald Colin b: 1862, 8 Wilson's Pk., Brechin (linen factory worker, > > photographer) > > > > Neil McLeod b: 1864, 8 Wilson's Pk., Brechin (my GreatGrandfather) > > > > married Petrie, Isabella 1893, East Parish Church Manse, Park Rd., > > Brechin > > > > Alice Margaret Ann b:1867 14 Castle St., Brechin > > > > Clementina Christina b: 1870, 14 Castle St., Brechin > > > > > > > > Campbell, Neil McLeod m. Petrie, Isabella > > > > > > > > Children: > > > > Neil b: 1887, Brechin (illegitimate) d: 1918, France > > > > David Balfour b:1894, Brechin (my Grandfather) (lived on High St., > > butcher's asst.) > > > > Annie b:1895, Brechin m. Rae, Charles > > > > Isabella Petrie b: 1899, Brechin m. Patterson, Joe > > > > Marguerita (Daisy) b: 1900, Brechin m. Keillor, Hector > > > > Neil McLeod b: 1904, Brechin (died at 6 months, 1905, Brechin) > > > > Christina (Chrissy) b: 1906, Brechin m. Morrison, James > > > > Eva b:1908, Brechin m. Tate, > > > > > > > > Many thanks!!! > > > > > > > >>From Canada, > > Donna > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lyn, Thank you very much for mentioning your FENTON interests. I am fairly sure that your 'Catherine Fenton born 1872 in Brechin married Charles Clark Lumgair on the 25 April 1890 died 1954 Dundee West' is related to the line I am helping to research. I have a reference to a Catherine FENTON born 7 July 1871 Brechin to George FENTON & Catherine GRASSICK. I have the same Catherine marrying a Charles C. LUMGAIR at Arbroath on 25 Apr 1890. Her brother Peter FENTON (born 31 Mar 1857 Brechin) is the specific line I am following, so it would be really useful to compare notes further. Duncan, Dundee

> Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:30:28 +0000 > From: doreencuthbert@btinternet.com > To: angus@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath > > > Helen, > It seems likely that she was called after someone called Alexander Fenton, who could have been a relative, a neighbour, the doctor, the minister, or another local worthy. > > Unless you can find someone called Alexander Fenton who was connected to the family, it's unlikely that you will ever be sure. > > Doreen Cuthbert > You can rule the Minister out - Fasti doesn't show any Ministers called Fenton in Angus before 1923 (and that's the cutoff for the publication of the book, not because one turned up then). Lesley Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

I would agree with Doreen - If Jane is a younger one of many siblings, you may find (as I have concluded in some of my lines) that Ma & Pa ran out of relations and started on the friends and neighbours as inspiration for names! Do you have access to neighbour information for around the time she was born) valuation rolls, etc)? Pat "What is this life, if full of care, We have no time to stand and stare ..." W. H. Davies, Leisure [<snip>] It seems likely that she was called after someone called Alexander Fenton, who could have been a relative, a neighbour, the doctor, the minister, or another local worthy. Unless you can find someone called Alexander Fenton who was connected to the family, it's unlikely that you will ever be sure [<snip>]

Hi Helen, a bit more info - in 1901 Cranston Ramsay and his family lived at 23 Union St, Dundee. At 19 Union St, there were three brothers called Fenton (Andrew, Thomas and William) - From the 1881 census, all three brothers are living with their parents, and there is an older brother called Alexander. He's not with them in 1901, but he could be the person you are looking for. If you don't have access to ancestry, and you need anything else, get back to me. Doreen --- On Thu, 7/5/09, Helen <nell1@sympatico.ca> wrote: > From: Helen <nell1@sympatico.ca> > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath > To: angus@rootsweb.com > Date: Thursday, 7 May, 2009, 1:17 PM > Hi - I have a long-standing FENTON mystery. My g-uncle > George D'ALL married > Jane Alexander Fenton RAMSAY. Jane was born 22 June 1912 in > Dundee to > Cranston RAMSAY & and Elizabeth Stewart ROSS, both of > whom were also born in > Dundee - Cranston the son of Robert RAMSAY & Jessie > WILLIAMSON (m 3 June > 1851, Arbroath), Elizabeth the daughter of Robert ROSS > & Maria HOLLAND. > > I have not been able to determine why FENTON appears in > Jane's name, unless > it was perhaps the surname of a friend. > > Helen > In Montreal > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2101 - Release > Date: 05/06/09 > 17:58:00 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Helen, It seems likely that she was called after someone called Alexander Fenton, who could have been a relative, a neighbour, the doctor, the minister, or another local worthy. Unless you can find someone called Alexander Fenton who was connected to the family, it's unlikely that you will ever be sure. Doreen Cuthbert --- On Thu, 7/5/09, Helen <nell1@sympatico.ca> wrote: > From: Helen <nell1@sympatico.ca> > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath > To: angus@rootsweb.com > Date: Thursday, 7 May, 2009, 1:17 PM > Hi - I have a long-standing FENTON mystery. My g-uncle > George D'ALL married > Jane Alexander Fenton RAMSAY. Jane was born 22 June 1912 in > Dundee to > Cranston RAMSAY & and Elizabeth Stewart ROSS, both of > whom were also born in > Dundee - Cranston the son of Robert RAMSAY & Jessie > WILLIAMSON (m 3 June > 1851, Arbroath), Elizabeth the daughter of Robert ROSS > & Maria HOLLAND. > > I have not been able to determine why FENTON appears in > Jane's name, unless > it was perhaps the surname of a friend. > > Helen > In Montreal > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2101 - Release > Date: 05/06/09 > 17:58:00 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Now that is some of the best advice I have seen on rootsweb. Thank you from the grandson of a Carson from Ireland. Frank Easton -----Original Message----- From: angus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:angus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pat Carson Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:52 PM To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com; angus@rootsweb.com; tay-valley-bridges@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ANGUS] The origins of surnames I was browsing for surname information and on a discussion board, along with all the usual (mainly erroneous) explanations and misconceptions, came across this response: I might add one of the biggest mistakes a person can make when starting their family history is to get overly involved in their name. Your surname is a very tiny part of your ancestry. The number of people you descend from pyramids as you go back. Get back to your 6xGreat Grandparents, barring any duplicates, you are directly descended from 510 individuals. Of those 510 individuals only 8 of them will probably have your surname. Now, it is possible for one of your other ancestors to have married someone with the same surname whether in the family or not, but without any duplicates 502 will not have your surname. Get back to your 7xgreat grandparents you come out of 1012 individuals (that is 10 generations including yourself). Again barring any duplicates only 9 will have your surname leaving out 1003 people. Kiddo you have a lot of kin. Sort of puts it in perspective! Pat Carson Researching ADAMSON, STIRLING, KINNEAR in Forfar & Dundee KEY, FORD in Coastal Angus & Dundee NEAVE in Haddington & Forfar MILLER in Dundee CONWAY in Ireland, Ayrshire & Dundee FISHER in Ayrshire & Dundee NICOLSON in Speyside, Aberdeen & Dundee REILLY in Ireland & Dundee ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Helen: It caught my eye that you have a George D'ALL in your ancestry. My GG aunt was Georginia POWRIE who married a John Da'll (or Dall). Georgina Powrie was the daughter of John POWRIE and Isabella BRUCE. Do you see a connection between your D'ALL family and this John D'ALL who married my Georgina. They were in Dundee. THANKS! DUNDEE: POWRIE, INNES, REID, BRUCE, HAY (probably HADDON) 4. Georgina Thomson Powrie, b. May 18, 1865. Married Dec. 30, 1887, Dundee to John Dall, son of John Dall, coal carter (?) and Janet Young, both deceased. At the time of their marriage, Georgina, was 22, working as a power loom weaver, and living at 8 Tannadice St. John was 36, a calender worker and living at 6 Malcolm St. (There is not a Malcolm Street on a modern map of Dundee, but there is a Malcolm Crescent in the Dundee East area, just north of Monifieth.) Witnesses were James Powrie and Jane Brown Dall.[i] On August 24, 1891, "Georgian Powrie" arrived in Port of New York, on the Anchoria, with a final destination of Providence, Rhode Island. The ship had sailed from Glasgow, Scotland, via Moville, Ireland.[1] So, Georgina had come to visit her brother James and sister, Julianna, who I believe were already living in Providence. This does not indicate why her maiden name is used. (Was James Powrie, witness to the marriage, Georgina's brother James Powrie? If so, he would have left the very next day to the U.S., as the 1900 U.S. Census for Rhode Island indicates he emigrated to the United States in 1887. Or did he come to the United States earlier in 1887 and return for the wedding of his younger sister?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [1] New York Passenger Records, MF-574, List #1279, Line 13. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [i]. Dundee Vital Records, SRO Marriage, 282/4, no. 339. From: Helen <nell1@sympatico.ca> > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath > To: angus@rootsweb.com > Date: Thursday, 7 May, 2009, 1:17 PM > Hi - I have a long-standing FENTON mystery. My g-uncle > George D'ALL married > Jane Alexander Fenton RAMSAY. Jane was born 22 June 1912 in > Dundee to > Cranston RAMSAY & and Elizabeth Stewart ROSS, both of > whom were also born in > Dundee - Cranston the son of Robert RAMSAY & Jessie > WILLIAMSON (m 3 June > 1851, Arbroath), Elizabeth the daughter of Robert ROSS > & Maria HOLLAND. > > I have not been able to determine why FENTON appears in > Jane's name, unless > it was perhaps the surname of a friend. > > Helen

Thank you Lesley ........ -----Original Message----- From: angus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:angus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Robertson Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:07 AM To: angus@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath > Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:30:28 +0000 > From: doreencuthbert@btinternet.com > To: angus@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath > > > Helen, > It seems likely that she was called after someone called Alexander Fenton, who could have been a relative, a neighbour, the doctor, the minister, or another local worthy. > > Unless you can find someone called Alexander Fenton who was connected to the family, it's unlikely that you will ever be sure. > > Doreen Cuthbert > You can rule the Minister out - Fasti doesn't show any Ministers called Fenton in Angus before 1923 (and that's the cutoff for the publication of the book, not because one turned up then). Lesley Robertson

Hi Doreen, She did have an uncle Alexander (Ramsay), but I had pretty much come to the same conclusions you have listed ...... I have the feeling it will remain a mystery. Thank you Helen -----Original Message----- From: angus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:angus-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of DOREEN CUTHBERT Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 10:30 AM To: angus@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath Helen, It seems likely that she was called after someone called Alexander Fenton, who could have been a relative, a neighbour, the doctor, the minister, or another local worthy. Unless you can find someone called Alexander Fenton who was connected to the family, it's unlikely that you will ever be sure. Doreen Cuthbert

Hello Lyn: Your Jane Wilson LUMGAIR. Is she the same Jane Wilson LUMGAIR who was the daughter of David Wightman LUMGAIR and Christina WILSON? Regards Lee Walmsley ms Wightman Perth West. Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyn Hansch" <winalape@gmail.com> To: <angus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] FENTON Ancestry - Tannadice, Brechin & Arbroath > I also have George Fenton no dates yet who married Jane Wilson Lumgair in > 1928 St Mary Dundee.

Hi Duncan, I have the following Fentons in my trees. Catherine Fenton born 1872 in Brechin married Charles Clark Lumgair on the 25 April 1890 died 1954 Dundee West I also have George Fenton no dates yet who married Jane Wilson Lumgair in 1928 St Mary Dundee. David Fenton born 1850 Perthshire married Helen Low Longair 10 June 1874 Dundee Scotland had 5 children. I don't know if these are yours but these are the Fenton's in my trees. warm regards Lyn 2009/4/26 Duncan Smith <d.smith.1@blueyonder.co.uk> > Hello, does anyone on this list have any specific knowledge of the FENTON > line which seems to reside at Tannadice prior to 1800? James FENTON & > Elizabeth CRAMOND had several children there (mostly at a place called Sheal > Green). > > I am particularly interested in the line descending from their son James > (born abt 1795/6 although I can't find his baptism) who married a Betty > HENRY (or HENDRY) and later moved to Brechin. > > They in turn had a son named George, who in turn had a son named Peter > FENTON, a Flaxweaver, who seems to have moved to Arbroath. > > Any help in researching this family would be really appreciated. > > Duncan, Dundee > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hope this Helps -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1851 Scotland Census Name: Niel Campbell Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relationship: Servant Gender: Male Where born: Jura, Argyle Parish Number: 539 Civil Parish: Jura County: Argyll Address: 1 Feoline Occupation: Farm Lab ED: 2 Page: 13 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 54 Line: 19 Roll: CSSCT1851_114 Household Members: Name Age Niel MacLeod 45 Margaret MacLeod 33 Jessie C MacLeod 12 Archibald MacLeod 10 Patrick MacLeod 7 Margaret C F MacLeod 4 Elisabeth MacLeod 2 Archibald MacLeod 90 Janet MacLeod 85 Niel Campbell 25 Malcom McCraine 22 Alexr Dunlop 29 Colin Niven 17 Mary McCorrie 50 Mary MacColl 19 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1861 Scotland Census Name: Neil Campbell Age: 29 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Jessie Gender: Male Where born: Jura, Argyleshire Registration Number: 275/1 Registration district: Brechin Burgh Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh County: Angus Address: 8 Dam Acre Road Occupation: Sergeant Of Police ED: 2 Household schedule number: 184 Line: 12 Roll: CSSCT1861_37 Household Members: Name Age Neil Campbell 29 Jessie Campbell 24 Mary Jane Campbell 1 ----------------------------------------------------------- Name: Jessie Campbell Age: 24 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837 Relationship: Wife Spouse's name : Neil Gender: Female Where born: Killin, Perthshire Registration Number: 275/1 Registration district: Brechin Burgh Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh County: Angus Address: 8 Dam Acre Road ----------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Mary Jane Campbell Age: 1 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relationship: Daughter Father's Name: Neil Mother's Name: Jessie Gender: Female Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire Registration Number: 275/1 Registration district: Brechin Burgh Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh County: Angus Address: 8 Dam Acre Road --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No Alexander --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1871 Scotland Census Name: Neil Campbell Age: 40 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Jessie Gender: Male Where born: Jura, Argyllshire Registration Number: 275/1 Registration district: Brechin Burgh Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh County: Angus Address: High St Occupation: Superintendent Of Police ED: 1 Household schedule number: 44 Line: 11 Roll: CSSCT1871_48 Household Members: Name Age Neil Campbell 40 Jessie Campbell 35 Mary Jane Campbell 11 Archibald C Campbell 8 Neil McLeod Campbell 6 Alice Mar Campbell 4 Clemintina C Campbell 10 Mo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Name: Jessie Campbell Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836 Relationship: Wife Spouse's name : Neil Gender: Female Where born: Kellin, Perthshire Registration Number: 275/1 Registration district: Brechin Burgh Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh County: Angus Address: High St ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Mary Jane Campbell Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relationship: Daughter Father's Name: Neil Mother's Name: Jessie Gender: Female Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire Registration Number: 275/1 Registration district: Brechin Burgh Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh County: Angus Address: High St Occupation: Scholar ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Archibald C Campbell Age: 8 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863 Relationship: Son Father's Name: Neil Mother's Name: Jessie Gender: Male Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire Registration Number: 275/1 Registration district: Brechin Burgh Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh County: Angus Address: High St Occupation: Scholar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Neil McLeod Campbell Age: 6 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865 Relationship: Son Father's Name: Neil Mother's Name: Jessie Gender: Male Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire Registration Number: 275/1 Registration district: Brechin Burgh Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh County: Angus Address: High St Occupation: Scholar --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Alice Mar Campbell Age: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867 Relationship: Daughter Father's Name: Neil Mother's Name: Jessie Gender: Female Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire Registration Number: 275/1 Registration district: Brechin Burgh Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh County: Angus Address: High St Occupation: Scholar ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Clemintina C Campbell Age: 10 Mo Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870 Relationship: Daughter Father's Name: Neil Mother's Name: Jessie Gender: Female Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire Registration Number: 275/1 Registration district: Brechin Burgh Civil Parish: Brechin Burgh County: Angus Address: High St --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1881 Scotland Census Name: Neil Campbell Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 Relationship: Head Gender: Male Where born: Juva G, Argyleshire Registration Number: 275 Registration district: Brechin Civil Parish: Brechin Town: Brechin County: Angus Occupation: Gardener Jobbing ED: 4 Household schedule number: 141 Line: 15 Roll: cssct1881_78 Household Members: Name Age Neil Campbell 50 Archd C Campbell 18 Neil Mc Leod Campbell 16 Alice Campbell 13 Clementina Campbell 10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Archd C Campbell Age: 18 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863 Relationship: Son Father's Name: Neil Gender: Male Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire Registration Number: 275 Registration district: Brechin Civil Parish: Brechin Town: Brechin County: Angus Occupation: Linen Factory Worker ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Neil Mc Leod Campbell Age: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865 Relationship: Son Father's Name: Neil Gender: Male Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire Registration Number: 275 Registration district: Brechin Civil Parish: Brechin Town: Brechin County: Angus Occupation: Butcher'S Assistant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Alice Campbell Age: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relationship: Daughter Father's Name: Neil Gender: Female Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire Registration Number: 275 Registration district: Brechin Civil Parish: Brechin Town: Brechin County: Angus Occupation: Scholar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Clementina Campbell Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871 Relationship: Daughter Father's Name: Neil Gender: Female Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire Registration Number: 275 Registration district: Brechin Civil Parish: Brechin Town: Brechin County: Angus Occupation: Scholar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Can not fine Niel Campbell on my 1891 Census ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Stollery" <stollerytogo@hotmail.com> To: <angus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:43 AM Subject: [ANGUS] CAMPBELL, IRVINE, PETRIE, ETAL > > Hello, > > I have been researching my grandfather's family tree...Campbell. Any > > help would certainly be appreciated. > > > > Campbell, Neil married Irvine, Jessie (Janet) 1857, Dundee > > b: 1824, Jura b: 1835, Killin > > d: 1899, Brechin d: 1872, 109 River St., Brechin > > Almshouse, Infirmary St. > > -Neil was Sgt. of Police and Superintendant of Police, Brechin > > > > Children: > > Alexander b: 1858, Damacre Rd., Brechin > > Mary Jane b: 1859, Damacre Rd., Brechin > > Archibald Colin b: 1862, 8 Wilson's Pk., Brechin (linen factory worker, > photographer) > > Neil McLeod b: 1864, 8 Wilson's Pk., Brechin (my GreatGrandfather) > > married Petrie, Isabella 1893, East Parish Church Manse, Park Rd., > Brechin > > Alice Margaret Ann b:1867 14 Castle St., Brechin > > Clementina Christina b: 1870, 14 Castle St., Brechin > > > > Campbell, Neil McLeod m. Petrie, Isabella > > > > Children: > > Neil b: 1887, Brechin (illegitimate) d: 1918, France > > David Balfour b:1894, Brechin (my Grandfather) (lived on High St., > butcher's asst.) > > Annie b:1895, Brechin m. Rae, Charles > > Isabella Petrie b: 1899, Brechin m. Patterson, Joe > > Marguerita (Daisy) b: 1900, Brechin m. Keillor, Hector > > Neil McLeod b: 1904, Brechin (died at 6 months, 1905, Brechin) > > Christina (Chrissy) b: 1906, Brechin m. Morrison, James > > Eva b:1908, Brechin m. Tate, > > > > Many thanks!!! > > > >>From Canada, > Donna >

Hi - I have a long-standing FENTON mystery. My g-uncle George D'ALL married Jane Alexander Fenton RAMSAY. Jane was born 22 June 1912 in Dundee to Cranston RAMSAY & and Elizabeth Stewart ROSS, both of whom were also born in Dundee - Cranston the son of Robert RAMSAY & Jessie WILLIAMSON (m 3 June 1851, Arbroath), Elizabeth the daughter of Robert ROSS & Maria HOLLAND. I have not been able to determine why FENTON appears in Jane's name, unless it was perhaps the surname of a friend. Helen In Montreal ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2101 - Release Date: 05/06/09 17:58:00

hi Pat, Have this family in my Barry tree: Name Thomas ADAMSON male Father Alexander ADAMSON Mother Elizabeth ADAMSON née SENIOR Occupation Music Teacher Born at on Baptised at on Married to Florence Evaline Mary ADAMSON née BARRY Married at The Willows, Carnoustie, Angus (late Forfarshire), Scotland on 06 Apr 1898 Children Ruth Rosabel Barry (b.1898) Willy Anderson (b.1903) Regards, Barbara Melb. Aust. Quoting Pat Carson <patcarsonp@hotmail.com>: > Hi Lyn, > > Don't think this Adamson family connects directly with my own, but if > you > would like to contribute some more info - directly to me if you wish > - then > I will add them to my database. > > The plan is to map the distribution of Forfarshire Adamsons over the > 18th to > 21st centuries. And if anyone is aware that this work has already > been done, > or is in progress somewhere, I would be grateful for further info. > > regards > Pat > > "What is this life, if full of care, We have no time to stand and > stare ..." > W. H. Davies, Leisure > > > -----Original Message----- > From: angus-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:angus-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of Lyn Hansch > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:41 PM > To: angus@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] James ADAMSON in Australia 1916 > > Hi Pat do you have a connection with George Adamson born about 1755 a > baker > in Arbroath married Jean Lumgair in 1787 in St Vigeans. Had 3 > children > Robert, Isabell, and George. > warm regards > Lyn > > 2009/5/6 Pat Carson <patcarsonp@hotmail.com> > > > Dear Listers, > > > > > > > > I have stumbled across this James ADAMSON's Australian Imperial > Force > > attestation papers from January 1916. He stated that he was born > in > Letham, > > Forfarshire, was aged 44 years and 10 months, usual occupation > stated as > > gardener and married to Susan who resided at Wentworth Road, > Burwood, NSW. > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any further information about this James? I don't > think > he > > is directly 'mine', but I 'collect' Adamsons in Forfarshire/Angus > and I'm > > keen to place him with his Scottish family. From his attestation > papers, > it > > might appear that he was born about March or April 1871 and if that > is the > > case, from the 1881 census records I have three possible families > for him. > > > > > > > > Any further info gratefully received! > > > > > > > > regards > > > > Pat Carson > > > > > > > > Researching ADAMSON, STIRLING, KINNEAR in Forfar & Dundee; KEY, > FORD in > > Coastal Angus & Dundee; NEAVE in Haddington & Forfar; MILLER in > Dundee; > > CONWAY in Ireland, Ayrshire & Dundee; FISHER in Ayrshire & Dundee; > NICOLSON > > in Speyside, Aberdeen & Dundee; REILLY in Ireland & Dundee > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >