Agreed w/Wallace's comment. I have a LOT of marriages like that (in NewEngland) where the first wife dies and the husband, needing support for the children send for one of the sisters to help and one thing leads to another and ... 2nd marriage and baby. (Not necessarily in that order.) <another grin> Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wallace Fullerton" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Placement of infant in foster care early 1900's > Or, Nivard, they might re-marry to get a built-in babysitter. At least > that's what they often did in the colonies but maybe we folk over here > were a bit more imaginative than back there . . . <grin> > > On 7/31/2011 6:10 PM, Nivard Ovington wrote: >> If a man was made a widower with small children there were only a few >> options he had , give up work >> and beg and scrape an existance if he could or give the children up to >> either the Parish or other >> family members or he could pay someone to look after the child or >> children, often a family member >> but there were people who did it for a living > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

> I wondered if anyone knows what the process would have been > in the early > 1900's (although again with another ancestor in the 1830's) > for placing an > ifant (illegitimate) in foster care with someone else to > bring up? I've come across quite a lot of these in the Parochial Board records. The Parochial Boards were set up under an Act of Parliament in 1845, and given the responsibility of looking after the poor of the parish. An illegitimate child would usually be looked after by its maternal grandparents while its mother went back to work. Less often the paternal grandparents might take on an illegitimate grandchild. The parish would only step in if no other arrangement could be made, and would place the child with a suitable household. The foster parents would normally receive a sum of money to care for the foster child, and the parochial boards went to great lengths to find the errant fathers and make them pay for the maintenance of the child. The only way to learn the exact circumstances of a particular child is to find the parochial board records, not all of which have survived, so it may never be possible to get the full story. Anne

Or, Nivard, they might re-marry to get a built-in babysitter. At least that's what they often did in the colonies but maybe we folk over here were a bit more imaginative than back there . . . <grin> On 7/31/2011 6:10 PM, Nivard Ovington wrote: > If a man was made a widower with small children there were only a few options he had , give up work > and beg and scrape an existance if he could or give the children up to either the Parish or other > family members or he could pay someone to look after the child or children, often a family member > but there were people who did it for a living

Thanks, Anne. Would the parochial board records be for each area? Held in the archives or libray of an area? Say Brechin - or Aberdeen? Some of them may have been personal arrangements, I suppose? But perhaps some kind of connection like a cousin or something? Thanks again, Ros -- Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. - Martin Luther King Jr.

Hello. I wondered if anyone knows what the process would have been in the early 1900's (although again with another ancestor in the 1830's) for placing an ifant (illegitimate) in foster care with someone else to bring up? Two instances - Matilda Webster whose father was John Webster, and mother of a rather prominent family - Elizabeth Largie of Benholm. Matilda's birth doesn't seem to be registered - though there is another a few years later. I find her in the 1841 census with a Low family along with two other little girsl of 7 and 8 that don't seem to be ralated to the family with whom they are living. All different last names. She was raised closer to Marykirk. Ends up in a mill in mOntrose before marrying my great-great gf Robert McGregor and moving with him to Derry, where he was already settled and working as manager of a starch work. The second, Constance Mary Bowes-Lyon's mother was my Granny's sister, Mary Agnes, Molly, Hay Smeaton. She was conceived in edinburgh, born in London. Shortly after her birth, her mother and an Edinburgh friend set her up to be raised by Mrs. Collie of Aberdeen. As a young adult, Constance realized she was a Bowes-Lyon and took to court to have her name legitimized. Her friend in Edinburgh seems to have arranged the fostering situation in Aberdeen, although I don't know that for certain, only that she helped Molly arrange something. Did some women atke in other children as a way to make things work (receiving possibly some remuneration?). Were they related in some way to the family? One or both? thank you for any help. Roslyn Macgregor in Montreal

This may be an appropriate place to summarise. For genealogical purposes we make much use of the IGI and the problem, for Listers outside the area, seems to be the term "Forfar, Forfar" as applied to a birth/baptism,/marriage record. This should be read as "the Parish of Forfar in the County of Forfar(shire)". The Parish of Forfar includes the town of Forfar in which the Old Parish Church (now the East and Old) stands. The Parish also includes country districts surrounding the town including many large farms and estates largely to the south and east. To establish whether the event took place in the town or surrounding district some further research is required, particularly in the field of old farm, estate and street names. The County of Forfar(shire), as already discussed, is largely the Angus of old which became Forfarshire then reverted to Angus. Except for the fringes of the City of Dundee and a small area near Cupar Angus (which is all in Perthshire), Forfarshire and Angus can be regarded as the same geographical area. No doubt there will still be "grey areas" but, as always, there will be somone on this List that can help. Cheers, Bruce D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Burgess" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Dundee -- Once Forfar now Angus -- When? > You are correct, of course, Anne but > the two Wikipedia articles, one on > Angus and one on Forfar(shire,) don't make the distinction > you so ably > made in your other message. The two articles discuss > the county, not > specifically the town/parish (of Forfar.) That may be, but in that case it is Wikipedia that is in error! > In fact, if you enter "Forfarshire" as the Wiki term, you > end up with > the ship that sank in 1838 (or whenever it was.) What more would one need to demonstrate the inadequacies of Wikipedia? Anne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3798 - Release Date: 07/30/11

Good Morning, Marilyn, It is more than likely that John was buried in a Dundee cemetery of which there were many in use in 1919. So far there is no way I know to search for Dundee burials on line and suggest that you contact [email protected] . It is possible that he was buried in some of the surrounding parishes in Angus but I have tried Deceased on Line, which is now the official source of Angus burial records, and there is no record of a John Powrie burial between 1918 and 1920. Keep in mind that some of the outlying districts of Dundee were once in Angus but the burial records for them will now be held by Dundee. The other possibility is that he was buried in family ground in the Errol area which comes under Perth and Kinross Council. You might get somewhere by contacting the burials department at [email protected] . Cheers, Bruce D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn Arnold" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 6:16 AM Subject: [ANGUS] BURIAL -- John Powrie (1833-1919), Dundee > How would I find the burial information of John Powrie who died in Dundee > in 1919. He was b. 1833 in Errol, son of John Powrie (1814) and Isobel > Bruce (1811?). Married Jane Haddon Innes. Died at N. Ellen St., Georgina > Doll present (she was his daughter). John would have been my GGG GF. I > have a picture of him, undated, but would have been taken in Dundee. > > Thanks! Everyone on this list is so helpful. > Marilyn in WDC >

> It is my understanding that Lord Provost Letford of Dundee > is Lord > Lieutenant of the city while Mrs Georgina Osborne occupies > that office for > Angus. > Bruce D I stand corrected - I am guilty of extrapolating from the County of Banff. Although part of the County of Banff is now in Moray, and the rest in Aberdeenshire, there is still a Lord Lieutenant of the County of Banff, whose patch is the historic county, and there are even road signs to tell you when you enter it. Anne

> You are correct, of course, Anne but > the two Wikipedia articles, one on > Angus and one on Forfar(shire,) don't make the distinction > you so ably > made in your other message.  The two articles discuss > the county, not > specifically the town/parish (of Forfar.) That may be, but in that case it is Wikipedia that is in error! > In fact, if you enter "Forfarshire" as the Wiki term, you > end up with > the ship that sank in 1838 (or whenever it was.) What more would one need to demonstrate the inadequacies of Wikipedia? Anne

> >1928 is when Forfarshire reverted to being called > Angus. > for 20 years starting in 1974, the County was > effectively > suppressed, becoming part of Tayside Region. Not strictly true because Angus District Council retained the name, most of the boundaries and some of the functions of the County of Angus from 1974/5 until 1995 > In 1995, > the County name > of Angus was resurrected (although I don't know whether the > "new" Angus > has the same boundaries as the old Not quite - it has the same boundaries as the County of Angus minus the City of Dundee, which includes parts of the parishes of Mains and Strathmartine, Liff and Benvie, and Monifieth. Anne

How would I find the burial information of John Powrie who died in Dundee in 1919. He was b. 1833 in Errol, son of John Powrie (1814) and Isobel Bruce (1811?). Married Jane Haddon Innes. Died at N. Ellen St., Georgina Doll present (she was his daughter). John would have been my GGG GF. I have a picture of him, undated, but would have been taken in Dundee. Thanks! Everyone on this list is so helpful. Marilyn in WDC

Hello list For what it is worth, I have an Ann Smart mar. James Moug. They had son Alexander, b. 1835, Fettercairn, came to U.S.A, died in North Dakota, date unknown. Norma ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: [ANGUS] SMART - BROWN in Dundee > > > > > Hi List, The message board posts about SMART reminded me that John SMART > married Jessie BROWN at Dundee on 7 April 1865. They had 10 children > between then and 1886 and I do not know what became of them yet. Do any of > you know ? These SMARTs had moved to Dundee from Errol;and it seems likely > that the BROWN side was also from Errol.CheersJonathan in > Toronto, Canada > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List, The message board posts about SMART reminded me that John SMART married Jessie BROWN at Dundee on 7 April 1865. They had 10 children between then and 1886 and I do not know what became of them yet. Do any of you know ? These SMARTs had moved to Dundee from Errol;and it seems likely that the BROWN side was also from Errol.CheersJonathan in Toronto, Canada

This is my family and I thanks you so much for your information - I was a Taylor who descended from George Taylor who came to Australia. Who I am pretty sure is the eldest son of James and Jane. Thank you again Norma ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] TAYLOR > Here's what I have: > > Death registration #127 for 1869 in Kirriemuir (299) > Jane Taylor, married to James Taylor, linen weaver > Died - 15 November 1869, Kirriemuir > Age - 80 > Father - James Cuthbert, agricultural labourer, deceased > Mother - Isabella Cuthbert MS Robb, deceased > Informant - John Stoclken (?), son in law > > Death reg,. #31/1881/Kirriemuir (299) > Alexander Taylor, linen factory labourer, married to Mary Whyte > Died - 17 March 1881, Balmuckety Fens, Kirriemuir > Age - 51 > Father - James Taylor, linen weaver, deceased > Mother - Jane Taylor MS Cuthbert, deceased > Informant - George Taylor, son > > Death reg #74/1869/Kirriemuir > Helen Fearn, married to Robert Fearn > Died - 24 July 1869, Kirriemuir > Age - 54 > Father - James Taylor > Mother - Jane Taylor MS Cuthbert > Informant - Annie Fearn, daughter > > Death reg #97/1859/Kirriemuir > Jane Fearn > Died - 25 May 1859, Kirriemuir > Age - 2 1/2 > Father - Robert Fearn, shoemaker (master) > Mother - Helen Fearn MS Taylor > Informant - father > > Death reg #68/1864/Kirriemuir > William Cuthbert, agricultural labourer, married to Janet Adam > Died - 30 May 1864, Southmuir > Age - 82 > Father - James Cuthbert, decd > Mother - Isabella Cuthbert MS Robb, decd > > Death reg #93/1868/Kirriemuir > Janet Cuthbert, widow of William Cuthbert, soldier > Died - 14 September 1868, Southmuir, Kirriemuir > Age - 74 > Father - Robert Adam, farmer, decd > Mother - Helen Adam MS Rait, decd > Informant - Thomas Edwards, nephew, Linstrathen > > Death reg #91/1873/Kirriemuir > Ann Gellatly, widow of David Gellatly, linen weaver > Died - 18 June 1873, Southmuir, Kirriemuir > Age - 85 > Father - James Cuthbert, crofter, decd > Mother - Elizabeth Cuthbert MS Robb, decd (could she have been > Isabella?) > Informant - John Gellatly, son, 4 North Street, Forfar > > If these are who you are looking for, I can also do lookups on the 1851 > Kirriemuir census -- but I'm off to the dentist right now. > > Irene, in Michigan > (these aren't my family, but I'm interested in all Kirriemuir) > > > In a message dated 7/27/2011 11:55:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Would love to hear about the bit more information. Norma > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 12:55 AM > Subject: Re: [ANGUS] TAYLOR > > >> Any more information about the family? >> >> Would they be the James Taylor who married Jane Cuthbert? >> >> Jane died 5 Nov 1869 in Kirriemuir, age 80, daughter of James Cuthbert > and >> Isabella Robb. >> >> I have a bit more information if that's the correct family. >> >> Irene, in Michigan >> Kirriemuir families: Irvine, Whyte, Barclay, Robertson, Duke, Bisset, >> Angus, Muir, Smith, and Scott. >> >> >> In a message dated 7/17/2011 6:20:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Hello Listers, >> Is there anyone on this list researching the TAYLOR family of > Kirriemuir >> circa 1840-1860. I am particularly interested in the family of James > and >> Jane TAYLOR. >> Regards >> Di (Feldtmann) for Norma Anderson, a descendant of this family. >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: MaineNative Surnames: SMART, INNES, POWRIE, BRUCE, HAY, REID Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5328.1.1.1.2.3.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Dear Sandra: Do you see any connection between your Smart family and my familiy, below? You seem to have done much research. Julianna Innes would have been my GG aunt. I have done much research on that line and have found descendants, now of mine and 2 other siblings and would like to find out what happened to these folks as well. I see in your posting that some may have ... "gone to Australia" Jane Haddon Innes, sister of Juliana, my GG GM, married John Powrie and one of her children's family ended up in Australia. Any connections to below (from an earlier posting): I have a George Smart marrying my GG aunt -- Julianna Innes on April 14, 1871,Dundee, Angus, Scotland. The marriage gives both Juliana and George as 30. Julianna was a powerloom weaver and George a seaman. They married at 50 Banack Street, in Dundee after Banns according to the form of the free church. This address was listed as the home of Julianna, whose parents were given as James Innes, master sawmaker, deceased, and Helen (Reid) Innes, deceased. Julianna was the daughter of James Innes and Helen Reid, granddaughter of William Innes and Helen Hay. (Helen Reid's parentage not yet known. George Smart was living at 104 Ann Street, Dundee, son of Henry Smart, cabinetmaker (journeyman), and Elizabeth (Sharh?) Smart. James Ewign was the officiating minister for the ceremony which took place April 14th or 15th, 1871 at Dundee. Witnesses were Henry Smart and Elizabeth Innes. George Smart and Juliana Innes had at least three children: A. James Smart, (twin) b. November 2, 1872, Dundee. B. Henry Smart, (twin) b. November 2, 1872, Dundee. C. Elizabeth Innes Smart, b. August 21, 1874, Dundee. Perhaps your family members were siblings to this George? Julianna Innes Smart was my GGG GM's sister. (Jane Haddon INNES m. John POWRIE, son of JOhn POWRIE and Isobella BRUCE). Marilyn DUNDEE: INNES, POWRIE, BRUCE, HAY, GORDON. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Would love to hear about the bit more information. Norma ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] TAYLOR > Any more information about the family? > > Would they be the James Taylor who married Jane Cuthbert? > > Jane died 5 Nov 1869 in Kirriemuir, age 80, daughter of James Cuthbert and > Isabella Robb. > > I have a bit more information if that's the correct family. > > Irene, in Michigan > Kirriemuir families: Irvine, Whyte, Barclay, Robertson, Duke, Bisset, > Angus, Muir, Smith, and Scott. > > > In a message dated 7/17/2011 6:20:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hello Listers, > Is there anyone on this list researching the TAYLOR family of Kirriemuir > circa 1840-1860. I am particularly interested in the family of James and > Jane TAYLOR. > Regards > Di (Feldtmann) for Norma Anderson, a descendant of this family. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-r[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and > the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: IHall6669 Surnames: Wilkie Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5899.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Could you give us any additional information? If you don't have his birth, or his parents' names for sure, how did you get his age and birthplace? And middle name? From his marriage, his death, a census record? I have checked the 1851 census of Kirriemuir, and find no Peter. There are a couple of Williams who are close in age, but with their parents, and the father is not Peter. The closest match is a Willian Wilkie, age 16, b. Kirriemuir, who is shown as a "visitor" with Andrew Anderson (45, weaver, b. Kirriemuir) and his wife Margaret Anderson (45, b. Kirriemuir). They are living in Westmuir (enumeration district 27, page 5. Then going to ancestry.com for the 1841 census, he is also found living with the Andersons. The use of middle names was not common in Kirriemuir in 1835. And there is a very large gap in the marriage records. If your information came from William's death record, and depending who the informant was, could Donaldson be an error that should have been Anderson? The Andersons were too young to be his grandparents, and they appeared to have no children of their own, so are they related, or did they just informally "adopt" him? Or is this even the correct William? Which is why I'm suggesting you give us some additional information. Irene, in Michigan Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Here's what I have: Death registration #127 for 1869 in Kirriemuir (299) Jane Taylor, married to James Taylor, linen weaver Died - 15 November 1869, Kirriemuir Age - 80 Father - James Cuthbert, agricultural labourer, deceased Mother - Isabella Cuthbert MS Robb, deceased Informant - John Stoclken (?), son in law Death reg,. #31/1881/Kirriemuir (299) Alexander Taylor, linen factory labourer, married to Mary Whyte Died - 17 March 1881, Balmuckety Fens, Kirriemuir Age - 51 Father - James Taylor, linen weaver, deceased Mother - Jane Taylor MS Cuthbert, deceased Informant - George Taylor, son Death reg #74/1869/Kirriemuir Helen Fearn, married to Robert Fearn Died - 24 July 1869, Kirriemuir Age - 54 Father - James Taylor Mother - Jane Taylor MS Cuthbert Informant - Annie Fearn, daughter Death reg #97/1859/Kirriemuir Jane Fearn Died - 25 May 1859, Kirriemuir Age - 2 1/2 Father - Robert Fearn, shoemaker (master) Mother - Helen Fearn MS Taylor Informant - father Death reg #68/1864/Kirriemuir William Cuthbert, agricultural labourer, married to Janet Adam Died - 30 May 1864, Southmuir Age - 82 Father - James Cuthbert, decd Mother - Isabella Cuthbert MS Robb, decd Death reg #93/1868/Kirriemuir Janet Cuthbert, widow of William Cuthbert, soldier Died - 14 September 1868, Southmuir, Kirriemuir Age - 74 Father - Robert Adam, farmer, decd Mother - Helen Adam MS Rait, decd Informant - Thomas Edwards, nephew, Linstrathen Death reg #91/1873/Kirriemuir Ann Gellatly, widow of David Gellatly, linen weaver Died - 18 June 1873, Southmuir, Kirriemuir Age - 85 Father - James Cuthbert, crofter, decd Mother - Elizabeth Cuthbert MS Robb, decd (could she have been Isabella?) Informant - John Gellatly, son, 4 North Street, Forfar If these are who you are looking for, I can also do lookups on the 1851 Kirriemuir census -- but I'm off to the dentist right now. Irene, in Michigan (these aren't my family, but I'm interested in all Kirriemuir) In a message dated 7/27/2011 11:55:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Would love to hear about the bit more information. Norma ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] TAYLOR > Any more information about the family? > > Would they be the James Taylor who married Jane Cuthbert? > > Jane died 5 Nov 1869 in Kirriemuir, age 80, daughter of James Cuthbert and > Isabella Robb. > > I have a bit more information if that's the correct family. > > Irene, in Michigan > Kirriemuir families: Irvine, Whyte, Barclay, Robertson, Duke, Bisset, > Angus, Muir, Smith, and Scott. > > > In a message dated 7/17/2011 6:20:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hello Listers, > Is there anyone on this list researching the TAYLOR family of Kirriemuir > circa 1840-1860. I am particularly interested in the family of James and > Jane TAYLOR. > Regards > Di (Feldtmann) for Norma Anderson, a descendant of this family. >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: PhilipPlant Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5899/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello, Can anyone help with William Donaldson Wilkie, born 1835 in Kerriemuir? Parents should be Peter Wilkie and Elizabeth Donaldson. I can't find the birth record, siblings or parents marriage record. Thanks in advance, Phil Plant Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Being an Angus loon, I've got a sair head after a that explanation! Alex Born in Logie Pert, Angus in 1939.