This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Laing73 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5918.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi, My Laing family are from Stirling. William Laing & Elizabeth Tutin, son Alexander Laing & Rachel Paterson. Take care, Elinor. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: momtaz65 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5918.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks Elinor, i've done as you suggested and got some interesting information about Martha and her children. I curious about your username Laing73 as my maiden name is Laing. My 'Laings' all appear to come from Edinburgh where are you/rs from? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Laing73 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5918.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi, If you go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk you will be able to download the births for Margaret & Mary Letters as well as the marriage of Martha McGowan to William Letters, 15 Jan. 1885 Greenock. Take care, Elinor Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: kinshoni Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5917.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi , do you know which month that Ernest & mary passed away? ....if you wish i can look in the Library for an death notice in newspaper ,it'll probably mention if they had family . cheers, Kinshoni Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: momtaz65 Surnames: Letters, McGowan, Keelan Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5918/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi i'm trying to find out some information about a Martha Letters nee McGowan who lived in Dundee with my Gt, Gt, Gt grandfather Owen Keelan. I can find her in the 1891 & 1901 census both times living with Owen but i would like some further information about her and her illegitimate children who were born while she was living with Owen Keelan. thanks Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Hi Kay, Google will give you lots of info on Duncan's Chocolates Alistair ----- Original Message ----- From: "kay" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [ANGUS] Duncans Chocolate > Hello > Does anyone know the History (or where to find it) of Duncan’s Chocolates, > believed to have started in Dundee in the 1860s > Kay > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: nspacinsky Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5917.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Oops and my thanks should read 1980 Monifeith, Dundee Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: IColliar Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5917.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Neil, An Ernest Alexander Cook died in Dundee in 1959. Looks to be the right age match for yours. Regards, isobel Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: kinshoni Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5917.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: oops!! you got Mary passing away in 1908.....before she got married n 1915. easy mistake , i do it myself at times . Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: nspacinsky Surnames: Cook / Inglis Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/5917/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Ernest A T Cook born 1892 Forfar, Angus married Mary Helen Margaret Inglis July 24 1915 South United Free Church Manse, Forfar, Angus, Scotland. Mary passed away 1908 Monifeith, Dundee, Scotland. Would like to extend the family line but unable to find children not being close to Registry House. As well cannot locate death for Ernest in Scotland. Any help is appreciated. Neil Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/william-mason-inglis/an-angus-parish-in-the-eighteenth-century-lgn/1-an-angus-parish-in-the-eighteenth-century-lgn.shtml This is an e-book version of a book by William Mason Inglis, who was a minister at Auchterhouse in the late 19th/early 20th century. It includes various pieces from the Auchterhouse kirk session minutes, with Inglis's comments on them. Therefore it gives some sense of the conditions of the times, and I'm hoping it will give some sense of the huge social changes in that century. Unfortunately it's apparently been scanned and rendered by optical character recognition without being fully checked and there are some words that have to be guessed. But it's a interesting read. Jenny

Here's a link to a photo of someone doing salmon fishing from a boat with a net. This happens to be taken in Sunderland but the size of boat on the Tay would be much the same. www.trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=53911&title=fixed-salmon-net-fishing-sunderland-1960s&cat=829

>> Anne: You refer to these "valuation rolls." Could you >> elaborate as to what they are/were, and where I might find >> them today? (ie what jurisdiction in Forfar, Angus, Dundee >> or ....? might have these "valuation rolls"? that I might >> contact for more info?) > > They were compiled by the burgh (town) councils for their > burghs, and by the county councils for the parts of their > counties not covered by the burghs. > > The National Archives of Scotland has a research guide to VRs at > http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/valuationRolls.asp > > There are also copies of Angus VRs in Angus Archives at > Restenneth near Forfar, and in both the City and University > Archives in Dundee. I do not know how complete or otherwise > these holdings are for the middle of the 19th century. Valuation Rolls were compiled for the purpose of valuing properties for local taxation purposes. They have a means of locating the property (street address in towns), the name of the owner (or agent, some properties in Forfar were owned by people resident overseas), the name of the occupier and a nominal value called the "assessed rental" which was the basis for the "rates" or local tax. This has been obsolete for many years now. I know that shooting rights that went with a country estate were valued for taxation purposes so I assume fishing rights probably were too so it may be possible to see who owned the fishing rights and, if they were let out, to whom. For the Errol area any valuation rolls that exist would be in Perthshire archives or the National Archives. For anyone who might want them: Angus Archives has a large collection of the County Valuation Rolls going back to the early 1800s. There is also a good selection of Forfar Burgh Rolls there though the other burghs are not so well represented. I have been able to get Forfar rolls in the Forfar library and those for Brechin in the Brechin library though those library collections are not always complete. This can be a problem when you are trying to find out when a person moved into or left the area! > >> My John Powre, salmon fisher, would have been involved in >> salmon fishing in the 1830-1860s. (Although in 1841, 1851 >> Census was always a weaver, High Street, Errol, Perth, Angus. > > Well, salmon fishing is a seasonal occupation, linked to the > migration of the fish, so a salmon fisher would have needed some > other job to keep him during the winter. Some might have gone > for other forms of fishing, but there's not a lot of scope for > catching herring, haddock, cod or mackerel in the Tay near > Errol! So it would make sense to supplement his income by > weaving outside the fishing season. > On the other hand, hand-loom weaving was a solitary and probably tedious indoor occupation. One book on the subject says that weavers often took other seasonal work for a break and a chance to get outdoors for a bit. I have one ancestor who may have done just that. He was basically a weaver but in one census he is listed as "agricultural labourer" .... possibly having a break about the potato planting time! This caused some consternation among the "manufacturers" (merchants) at certain times. They had a market for cloth but couldn't get anyone to make it. Cheers, Bruce D

You can see the "original" at archive.org: http://www.archive.org/details/angusparishineig00ingl The PDF and read-online versions are page-by-page images of the original. Other versions include the OCR'd text with all the "translation" errors. On 10/16/2011 11:53 AM, Jenny Blain wrote: > http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/william-mason-inglis/an-angus-parish-in-the-eighteenth-century-lgn/1-an-angus-parish-in-the-eighteenth-century-lgn.shtml > > This is an e-book version of a book by William Mason Inglis, who was a > minister at Auchterhouse in the late 19th/early 20th century. It > includes various pieces from the Auchterhouse kirk session minutes, with > Inglis's comments on them. Therefore it gives some sense of the > conditions of the times, and I'm hoping it will give some sense of the > huge social changes in that century. > > Unfortunately it's apparently been scanned and rendered by optical > character recognition without being fully checked and there are some > words that have to be guessed. But it's a interesting read. > > Jenny > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn L. Arnold" <[email protected]> To: "Anne Burgess" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Fishing Rights on the Tay > > Thanks also for the elaboration on the two types of fishing -- single, > land-based vs. use of ships. I believe my Powries were involved in salmon > fishing using small vessels. (Family stories: one of the GF of my GM was > a > "ship captain", but this is my only clue to ship vs. land/net fishing). > And, that Mary Powrie Schacht (Queen of Powriedom :-)!) has said that the > Powries of Errol were salmon fishers on the Tay, and had "bothies" where > they stayed while on extended fishing trips. > Not ships ... boats! The salmon fishers on the rivers probably used no more than a large rowing boat to haul the net into position and haul it back to their base or bothie with the catch. This is not the same as sea fishing with nets. Some 15 years ago I watched two men wade out in the river Nith just downstream from Dumfries. They were up to their chests in the water at low tide and were positioning a net in the river. I didn't wait to see the result but less than an hour later the incomming tide had raised the water level by over 15 feet. The boat in the river would not have required a "ship captain", probably only two people, one to row and one to pay out the net. Cheers, Bruce D

> Anne: You refer to these "valuation rolls." Could you > elaborate as to what they are/were, and where I might find > them today? (ie what jurisdiction in Forfar, Angus, Dundee > or ....? might have these "valuation rolls"? that I might > contact for more info?) They were compiled by the burgh (town) councils for their burghs, and by the county councils for the parts of their counties not covered by the burghs. The National Archives of Scotland has a research guide to VRs at http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/valuationRolls.asp There are also copies of Angus VRs in Angus Archives at Restenneth near Forfar, and in both the City and University Archives in Dundee. I do not know how complete or otherwise these holdings are for the middle of the 19th century. > My John Powre, salmon fisher, would have been involved in > salmon fishing in the 1830-1860s. (Although in 1841, 1851 > Census was always a weaver, High Street, Errol, Perth, Angus. Well, salmon fishing is a seasonal occupation, linked to the migration of the fish, so a salmon fisher would have needed some other job to keep him during the winter. Some might have gone for other forms of fishing, but there's not a lot of scope for catching herring, haddock, cod or mackerel in the Tay near Errol! So it would make sense to supplement his income by weaving outside the fishing season. Anne

Dear Bruce: Thank you so very much for this article! I"m sending this back to the list, and changing the subject line, as well in case others are interested about types/forms of currency (paper vs. coin) in the 1820 time period. I apologize about the delay in response. Computer crashed with a thunderstorm and had to completely format the hard drive, reinstall hardware and resurrect data which has been time-consuming. Thank goodness for Carbonite (off line backup). Still, very timeconsuming and frustrating. Very interesting article and I thank you so much for thinking of me (remembering me, and my queries about the utterance/forgery of my Wm Innes (and son Wm Innes) both nail maker, nailers; both of West Port, Dundee; both tried for utterance regarding forgery. Bruce, you are always very kind! Thanks! I do believe that it was PAPER money that was forged, not coin, although someone did kindly suggest that it may have been coins that were forged (knowing that my two Innes men these kinds of skills). Excellent call, and I hadn't considered that, but I say it was more likely paper this because in the record groups at the Archives, one item included was a paper note (guinea). I am (anxiously!) awaiting the documents that have been requested from the Scottish archives regarding this trial and which will likely tell me more about the exact nature of the forgery involved. Yes, those ancestors are becoming more interesting all the time! Last spring they were barely name and now I have two criminals (William Innes/husb. of Helen Hay; and son of same name (b. 1806/7) and a possible Communist (John Powrie (1833-1919)! What next! LOL. But, whatever they were, whoever they were, they are MY ancestors, and I'm grateful for any information about them. I am especially blessed to have found a distant Powrie relative, still living in Dundee, not directly of my line that found the gravestone of my John Powrie. For whatever crazy reason, this has given me a sense of peace, closure -- I know where he was born, where he lived, and now where he was buried. This means so much to me. As to the mint being moved to Dundee for a period of time. I'll be sure to check that out! More interesting info! West Port was where Wm Innes (father) and Helen Hay (mother) lived as did son William Innes. (REF: Court papers of Wm Innes and son Wm Innes). Son James was later on Peter St, sawmaker/saw repairer. (Ref: City Directories, Census) Another clue to follow!!! Very interesting, Bruce! I'll be sure to post to the list the info on the Mint, as I find it, as it seems generic enough to be of interest to the group. Best wishes, and many thanks! Marilyn US (Washington, DC) ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Dorward To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:44 AM Subject: Fw: dundee forgeries Third attempt. I sent this on September 28 but due to a technical problem it didn't get delivered first time and a spelling error second time. Hi Marilyn, I spotted this article in the Dundee Courier yesterday. The forgeries date from about the time that you Innes ancestors were involved so it might be of interest to you. It was bank notes that were being forged, not coin as someone suggested. Another little bit of information: The Scottish mint was moved from Edinburgh to Dundee temporarly due to an outbreak of plague. It was located somewhere in the Overgate, about the West Port where your Hay connections lived. Cheers, Bruce D

Anne: Thanks for this info on fishing and the Tay. Very interesting! I have Nichols ancestors (Mary Nichols who m. John Hay, Guthrie, Forfar 1880). Their daughter, Helen Hay m. Wm Innes, 1802 Forfar. I'll be sure to look at your links in more detail. How incredible that you knew some of these people from the Tay Samlon Fisheries Company! It is my POWRIES that I believe to be "salmon fishers." John Powrie, b. ~ 1814, Errol son of Adam Powrie and Elspeth Rae; son John Powrie (b. 1833) m. Jane Haddon Innes lived in Dundee, jute worker; (tenter jute; heating engineer, etc.) REF: John Powrie, "salmon fisher" = occupation given at time of death of son, John Powrie (1833-1919), by dau. Georgina Powrie D'all. Anne: You refer to these "valuation rolls." Could you elaborate as to what they are/were, and where I might find them today? (ie what jurisdiction in Forfar, Angus, Dundee or ....? might have these "valuation rolls"? that I might contact for more info?) In the US, property rights/land were recorded at the County Level and records are (typcially) in the County Courthouse (earlier records (pre 1800, MAY be at a historical society/library)). I don't know the jurisdictional equivalent in Angus. (And from earlier posting you can see I was "confused" about Dundee in Angus vs. Forfar because of my postings, which led to a very detailed discussion between you, Bruce, Gordon and others about this and the Council and more modern jurisdictional control.) Thanks also for the elaboration on the two types of fishing -- single, land-based vs. use of ships. I believe my Powries were involved in salmon fishing using small vessels. (Family stories: one of the GF of my GM was a "ship captain", but this is my only clue to ship vs. land/net fishing). And, that Mary Powrie Schacht (Queen of Powriedom :-)!) has said that the Powries of Errol were salmon fishers on the Tay, and had "bothies" where they stayed while on extended fishing trips. My John Powre, salmon fisher, would have been involved in salmon fishing in the 1830-1860s. (Although in 1841, 1851 Census was always a weaver, High Street, Errol, Perth, Angus. Thanks again, Anne for your help -- it's always appreciated! Sincerely, Marilyn US (WDC) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Burgess" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Fishing Rights on the Tay > The Tay Salmon Fisheries Company still exists, and has offices > at Perth. It owned commercial salmon > fishings as far away as Lunan Bay > http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1964027, where until the late > 20th century they employed a man to work the stake nets on the > beach. I well remember the last of them, David Nicoll, and his > father Will Nicoll, who worked for the Company before him, and > who lived in a company-owned tied cottage next door to ours. > However the company seems to have withdrawn from Lunan Bay and > the nets are now worked by others. See > http://www.taysalmon.co.uk/history.php . What I don't know is > whethere the Company actually owned all the fishings on the Tay > estuary. > > Before the founding of the Company in 1899, the salmon fishing > was, I think, mainly in the hands of the riparian owners. The > valuation rolls list separately the proprietors of fishing > rights, > > I do know a little about the Earl of Southesk's fishings at > Lunan Bay. He built new houses at Ethie Haven on the south side > of the bay in 1852, and brought in salmon fishers from Benholm > and Bervie. Many of them worked and lived there only during the > commercial salmon fishing season, and presumably returned to > their homes for the winter, but one or two families had lived > there permanently since at the least the 18th century. Around > 1900 (which, concidentally or not, is when the Tay Salmon > Fisheries Company was formed) the estate began to let the houses > as holiday homes, and the fishings were worked by a company from > Montrose for a number of years. Later on they were worked > directly by the Tay Salmon Fisheries Company, and the houses > were sold to a local farmer who, in 1938, sold them on > individually to the people who had been in the habit of renting > them. > > I am not sure what the relationship is between the Tay Salmon > Fisheries Company and the Tay > Salmon Fishing Company, which has its registered office in > Spalding, Lincolnshire, England. I note that the website of the > former was designed by a company based in Lincolnshire, which > doesn't look like a concidence. > > There are basically two methods of netting salmon. The method > your ancestors used will depend on where exactly they were > working. > > One method is to set up fixed nets on the shore, projecting out > to sea like an arrow. Salmon swim parallel to the shore, and > when they encounter an obstruction they turn to seaward. When > they do this at a fixed net they swim into a bag at the apex of > the arrowhead and are trapped. At low tide the fishermen come > along and empty the bag. On a beach like Lunan Bay, one man can > do all the necessary work, but if the net is in deeper water it > needs a boat and a small crew. > > The other method is used in rivers, and requires a long net, a > boat and a crew of several men. One end of the net is held on > the river bank, and the rest of the net is loaded on the boat, > which is then rowed round in the big circle, paying out the net > as it goes. When the boat reaches the bank again, the crew start > to haul in the net until they can collect all the fish caught > inside the circle. This method was used on the River Spey, but > the angling interests effectively bought this out and it finally > closed down in 1993 after 210 years. > > HTH > > Anne > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Bruce, all, for your response to my email about the Temperance Party. What was interesting about the info at Wikipedia was that in the early 1920s, the Temperance Party of Dundee became the Communist Party of Scotland, so don't know what to make of that (relative to family history!!!) My family seemed to be so very "ordinary" relative to the law. Temperance, I understand as my ONE Scotish GG-GM, Julianna Innes Powrie, dau. John Powrie and Jane Haddon Innes married a Methodist Minister (George Davies, b. 1864, Moxley, England) and no, no, no alcohol there! (Providence, RI, various towns in New England because Methodist Ministers were moved frequently between parishes within the Conference.) But, Communist? Wouldn't his granddaughter be turning over in her grave today (Julia Davies, b. 1894, m. Willard Arnold, another Methodist Minister, and again, no alcohol, and certainly no comunists! Just pretty ordinary, but very staunch New England puritans ....). All very interesting. Much for thought! A few very new eye-openers to share with my cousins. (Their descendants) We're a much more diverse group, one Muslim m. to an Episcopalian (children: confused), mostly Protestants, 3 Meth. ministers, but still ... no known Communists! Thanks again to Bruce and this list! You are all wonderful! Opening my eyes to some new "facts" on my family -- not exactly expected, but ... all interesting, none-the-less! Marilyn DC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Dorward" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 4:46 AM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Temperance Party abt 1900, Dundee > Hi Marilyn, > > A short browse in Google revealed a few things, mainly that the Temperance > Party of Scotland was essencially a political party, it founder, Edwin > Scrymgeour of Dundee, was elected to Parliament. While it probably had its > roots in the temperance movement on both sides of the Atlantic the party > does not seem to have been directly affiliated to it. > > You might like to read: > About Edwin Scrmygeour, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Scrymgeour . > and > www.mcgonigal-online.org.uk/poems/pgmurphy.htm , you might want to skip > the > poem and scroll down to some background on page 2. > > By the way, I have tried to send you something directly on another recent > subject with an attachment. I have tried twice and it bounced. Could you > check that your e-mail settings do not exclude me or items with > attachments. > > Cheers, > Bruce D > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marilyn Arnold" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 3:30 AM > Subject: [ANGUS] Temperance Party abt 1900, Dundee > > >> Would one of the wonderful and knowledgable folks on this list be able to >> steer me towards learning more about the Temperance Party/movement in >> Dundee? Specifically, I'd welcome information on: >> >> a.. how/where to get more information? >> b.. membership? How to learn who were members of this party? >> c.. what/who/what groups caused this movement to be started? >> d.. was this affiliated with any particular church? >> e.. was placing a gravestone of a member commonplace or would this >> indicate a more senior/noted elder member of the Party? >> >> A distant cousin has indicated that one of our family was a member of >> this >> party and that his gravestone was placed by this organization in his >> honor. >> >> Thank you! >> Marilyn Arnold >> DC >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3938 - Release Date: 10/04/11 >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_my_p_edwk_d/0_my_photographs_edinburgh_at_work_-_duncans_chocolates_0_history.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "kay" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 2:52 PM Subject: [ANGUS] Duncans Chocolates > Does anyone know the History of Duncan’s chocolate or where I can find > information. They are said to have started in Dundee in the 1860S > Kay > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message