Hi both,   Regards spelling and pronounciation of names. I still have great problems with the spelling of Teviotdale. People I work with dont always call me Teviotdale, more often than not its Tevendale, or Tividale or whatever. These people have seen my surname written down. Doctors, Dentists and their receptionists fail to get their tongues around  my name,and for the poor call centre people, there is no chance. I just say that there is no one with that surname living here. It doesn't seem to be just a problem in days gone by.   Euan.   From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> To: angus@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 29 November 2012, 10:59 Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Prisoners Hi Gavin With great respect you appear to be reading things into my post that I did not put I did not at any point say it was the enumerator who was mainly at fault What I said and stand by is that the more common names are more likely to be recorded or transcribed correctly than the more unusual names (by anyone, enumerator, volunteer or paid transcriber etc) We find similar problems problems with any form of record, birth, marriage, baptism etc etc There are various stages along the way from start to finish, an error can creep in at any point, that can be by the most fastidious of transcribers or recorders, they are human and make mistakes, I have done so many times without realising it Although transcribers should always transcribe what they see, one person will see one thing and another a different word or words Yes there are other transcripts but only Ancestry have a decent search engine which enables all manner of search techniques, which to some degree negate the poor quality of transcription My advice would be to use any transcription that is available but to always obtain the original page image if at all possible No transcript is without flaws, but at least with Ancestry you have a passing chance of finding people or places You also do not need a 2nd mortgage to use it as most libraries and the LDS have it if you can't afford it at home Scotlandspeople may be reasonably cost effective but it quickly mounts up, using Ancestry it can make your search on SP more targeted and therefore cheaper Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > I don't believe a name like TEVIOTDALE would commonly be mistranscribed > by the Census Enumerator - as a surname, it is not particularly > widespread, but it is also the name of a river valley in the Scottish > Borders, and figures in Sir Walter Scott's pseudo-Jacobite song "Blue > Bonnets Ower the Border", so is likely to have been perfectly familiar > to an averagely-educated Scot of the mid-19th century. > > What is far more likely is that the name was mistranscribed at a much > later stage (ie within the last few years) by someone entirely > unfamiliar with Scottish names and 19th-century handwriting. Ancestry > are rumoured to have had their Census transcriptions done in India, > where data entry charges may be lower, but where familiarity with > Scottish personal and place names cannot necessarily be guaranteed. > > But Ancestry's is not the only transcription available.  Scotland's > People transcriptions are generally more reliable, and Tay Valley Family > History Society sell Census indexes for the counties of Angus, Perth, > Kinross and Fife, and these will have been produced by people native to > the area, who will be familiar with the names likely to be encountered. > > > Gavin Bell ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Euan, Perhaps the dates and addresses here might help, slightly: Census 7 June 1841. Park Street, Arbroath. Residing with parent's James Teviotdale and Sarah Fairn. Not Born Angus. Aged 15 (Shown as Teverdale). Also residing next household 1841 census David Louson and wife Elizabeth Wightman, aunt of Mary Ritchie Wightman married to Robert Carrie Teviotdale. Friends of Dundee City Archives - Howff Graveyard of Dundee. Teviotdale, James. Burial 01 Aug 1850. Aged 8 months. Born Arbroath. Cause: Water in Head. Son of Robert Teviotdale, Heckler. Last known address: Dudhope Crescent, Dundee. 1856 Birth. 2nd District of Dundee. County of Forfarshire. Ann Teviotdale. Born 1 July 1856 at 3:00am at 20 Hunter Street, Dundee. Daughter of Robert Teviotdale (Flaxdresser) and Julia Teviotdale ms Raitt. Registered at Dundee 11 July 1856. Informant Robert Teviotdale. Father. (Present). 1857 Death. District of Arbroath. County of Forfarshire. Ann Teviotdale. Died 1 October 1857 at 11:45am at Guthrie Hall, Parish of St Vigeans. Aged 15 months. Daughter of Robert Teviotdale (Flaxdresser Journeyman) and Julia Teviotdale ms Raitt. Cause of Death: Diarrhea (About 5 weeks). Certified by Charles Findlay, Surgeon, who saw the deceased 29 September. Registered 5 October 1857 at Arbroath. Informant Julia Teviotdale ('X' her mark). Mother. (Present). Place of Burial Abbey Churchyard, Arbroath. Certified by James Renny. Undertaker. I have Robert Teviotdale (born abt. 1826) son of James Teviotdale (born Arbroath 1801) and Sarah Fairn (baptism 1802 West Wittering, Sussex, England). Of their known children I have (7), 3 were born St Andrews, Fifeshire, according to census records. 1880 Marriage. District of Montrose. County of Forfarshire. 31 December 1880 at Victoria Bridge, Montrose. After Publications According to the Forms of the Weslynan Methodist Church. John Kinnear (Road Labourer. Burgh). Widower. Aged 60. Residing Victoria Bridge, Montrose. Son of John Kinnear (Road Labourer. Burgh) deceased and Elizabeth Kinnear ms Henderson deceased. Married Julia Teviotdale (House Keeper). ('X' her mark). Widow. Aged 58. Residing Victoria Bridge, Montrose. Daughter of David Rait (Flaxdresser) deceased and Isabella Rait ms *White deceased. Witnesses Robert Stewart and Jane Walker. *Isabella Rait ms White, should read Helen Rait ms White/Whyte who was Julia's step-mother. 1902 Death. District of Arbroath. County of Forfarshire. Julia Kinnear. Widow of 1st Robert Teviotdale. 2nd John Kinnear. Died on 1 November 1902 at 8:30am at Arbroath Poor House. Aged 80. Daughter of David Rait (Flax Dresser) deceased and Isabella Rait ms *Rhind deceased. Cause: Disease of Heart (1 year 6 months). Certified by James A. Dewar, M.D. Registered 1 November 1902 at Arbroath. Informant Alex. Anderson. *Nephew. Residing 37 Sidney Street, Arbroath. *Nephew Alexander Anderson, residing 37 Sidney Street, Arbroath, born 1852 son of Alexander Carnegie Anderson and Julia's sister Jane Guild Raitt. Lee Walmsley ms Wightman Perth WA. PS. The children mentioned in the census records below from Nivard, tally with my records. Happy to help on those if you wish. ---- Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> wrote: > Hi again > > Had you found the 1841 > > On Ancestry as > > > 1841 Scotland Census about Robert Teverdale > Name: Robert Teverdale > Age: 15 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 > Gender: Male > Where born: Scotland > Civil parish: Arbroath > County: Angus > Address: Park Flint > Parish Number: 272 > Household Members: > Name Age > James Teverdale 35 Flaxdresser > Sarah Teverdale 35 > Jane Teverdale 15 Flax Spinner > Robert Teverdale 15 > Ann Teverdale 10 > Matilda Teverdale 10 > Alexander Teverdale 9 > David Teverdale 7 > > Parish: Arbroath; ED: 3; Page: 3; Line: 506; Year: 1841. > > In 1851 (I strongly suspect this is them , interesting transcription > work there <g>) > > 1851 Scotland Census about Robert Jeroldala > Name: Robert Jeroldala > Age: 25 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 > Relationship: Head > Spouse's Name: Julia Jeroldala > Gender: Male > Where born: St Andrews, fifeshire > Parish Number: 282 > Civil parish: Dundee > Town: Dundee > County: Angus > Address: Dudhope Crescent > Occupation: Warehouseman > ED: 33 > Page: 21 (click to see others on page) > Household schedule number: 87 > Line: 1 > Roll: CSSCT1851_61 > Household Members: > Name Age > Robert Jeroldala 25 > Julia Jeroldala 30 St Vigeans, Forfar > > Parish: Dundee; ED: 33; Page: 21; Line: 1; Roll: CSSCT1851_61; Year: 1851. > > And in 1861 > > 1861 Scotland Census about Robert Teristdale > Name: Robert Teristdale > Age: 35 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 > Relationship: Head > Spouse's name : Julia Teristdale > Gender: Male > Where born: St Andrew, fifeshire > Registration number: 272 > Registration district: Arbroath > Civil parish: St Vigeans > Town: Arbroath > County: Angus > Address: 10 Guthrie Hill > Occupation: Flaxdresser Overseer > ED: 26 > Household schedule number: 100 > Line: 6 > Roll: CSSCT1861_36 > Household Members: > Name Age > Robert Teristdale 35 > Julia Teristdale 39 St Vigeans, Forfarshire > Adam R Teristdale 9 Dundee, Forfarshire > > Parish: St Vigeans; ED: 26; Page: 17; Line: 6; Roll: CSSCT1861_36. > > Its imperative that you get the original page though, scotlandspeople is > the easiest source > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 28/11/2012 22:23, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: > > Hi Nivard, > > > > > > I have worked out his birth date to be around 1826. 1851 census has > > Robert and Julia living at 87 Dudhope Crescent, Dundee . He was a > > Warehouseman. He is not in the 1861 or 1871 census, but his wife and > > son are. > > > > According to the census he is in, it states birth in St.Andrews > > Fifeshire? Don't know whether it should have been St.Andrews in > > Edinburgh. > > > > He was married in Arbroath in 1848 to Julia Raitt. I was hoping to > > get his death cert which would have given me some relevant details. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Euan. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

An error in a record can occur anywhere in its history from original creation to trancription. I have come across some that are clearly a case of an "official" writing down what they thought they heard or even expected to hear. In trying to trace my missing gg-grandfather I came upon his mother's burial in Forfar in 1860 (in the days before Deceased Online when you could see the original entry in the burial records) and found that the ground was owned by gg-grandfather with an address in "Glasswell, Aberdeenshire".I looked in vain for this place then someone mentioned that there was a "Glessel" in Aberdeenshire which turned out to be the right place. I can only assume that the clerk taking down gg-grandfather's particulars heard the word "Glessel" but took that to be the same as a place near Kirriemuir called "Glasswell" on signs but invariably pronounced "glessle" in the Forfar / Kirriemuir area. Cheers, Bruce D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> To: <angus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Prisoners > Hi Gavin > > With great respect you appear to be reading things into my post that I > did not put > > I did not at any point say it was the enumerator who was mainly at fault > > What I said and stand by is that the more common names are more likely > to be recorded or transcribed correctly than the more unusual names > (by anyone, enumerator, volunteer or paid transcriber etc) > > We find similar problems problems with any form of record, birth, > marriage, baptism etc etc > > There are various stages along the way from start to finish, an error > can creep in at any point, that can be by the most fastidious of > transcribers or recorders, they are human and make mistakes, I have done > so many times without realising it > > Although transcribers should always transcribe what they see, one person > will see one thing and another a different word or words > > Yes there are other transcripts but only Ancestry have a decent search > engine which enables all manner of search techniques, which to some > degree negate the poor quality of transcription > > My advice would be to use any transcription that is available but to > always obtain the original page image if at all possible > > No transcript is without flaws, but at least with Ancestry you have a > passing chance of finding people or places > > You also do not need a 2nd mortgage to use it as most libraries and the > LDS have it if you can't afford it at home > > Scotlandspeople may be reasonably cost effective but it quickly mounts > up, using Ancestry it can make your search on SP more targeted and > therefore cheaper > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > >> I don't believe a name like TEVIOTDALE would commonly be mistranscribed >> by the Census Enumerator - as a surname, it is not particularly >> widespread, but it is also the name of a river valley in the Scottish >> Borders, and figures in Sir Walter Scott's pseudo-Jacobite song "Blue >> Bonnets Ower the Border", so is likely to have been perfectly familiar >> to an averagely-educated Scot of the mid-19th century. >> >> What is far more likely is that the name was mistranscribed at a much >> later stage (ie within the last few years) by someone entirely >> unfamiliar with Scottish names and 19th-century handwriting. Ancestry >> are rumoured to have had their Census transcriptions done in India, >> where data entry charges may be lower, but where familiarity with >> Scottish personal and place names cannot necessarily be guaranteed. >> >> But Ancestry's is not the only transcription available. Scotland's >> People transcriptions are generally more reliable, and Tay Valley Family >> History Society sell Census indexes for the counties of Angus, Perth, >> Kinross and Fife, and these will have been produced by people native to >> the area, who will be familiar with the names likely to be encountered. >> >> >> Gavin Bell > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2634/5923 - Release Date: 11/27/12 >

Hi Gavin With great respect you appear to be reading things into my post that I did not put I did not at any point say it was the enumerator who was mainly at fault What I said and stand by is that the more common names are more likely to be recorded or transcribed correctly than the more unusual names (by anyone, enumerator, volunteer or paid transcriber etc) We find similar problems problems with any form of record, birth, marriage, baptism etc etc There are various stages along the way from start to finish, an error can creep in at any point, that can be by the most fastidious of transcribers or recorders, they are human and make mistakes, I have done so many times without realising it Although transcribers should always transcribe what they see, one person will see one thing and another a different word or words Yes there are other transcripts but only Ancestry have a decent search engine which enables all manner of search techniques, which to some degree negate the poor quality of transcription My advice would be to use any transcription that is available but to always obtain the original page image if at all possible No transcript is without flaws, but at least with Ancestry you have a passing chance of finding people or places You also do not need a 2nd mortgage to use it as most libraries and the LDS have it if you can't afford it at home Scotlandspeople may be reasonably cost effective but it quickly mounts up, using Ancestry it can make your search on SP more targeted and therefore cheaper Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > I don't believe a name like TEVIOTDALE would commonly be mistranscribed > by the Census Enumerator - as a surname, it is not particularly > widespread, but it is also the name of a river valley in the Scottish > Borders, and figures in Sir Walter Scott's pseudo-Jacobite song "Blue > Bonnets Ower the Border", so is likely to have been perfectly familiar > to an averagely-educated Scot of the mid-19th century. > > What is far more likely is that the name was mistranscribed at a much > later stage (ie within the last few years) by someone entirely > unfamiliar with Scottish names and 19th-century handwriting. Ancestry > are rumoured to have had their Census transcriptions done in India, > where data entry charges may be lower, but where familiarity with > Scottish personal and place names cannot necessarily be guaranteed. > > But Ancestry's is not the only transcription available. Scotland's > People transcriptions are generally more reliable, and Tay Valley Family > History Society sell Census indexes for the counties of Angus, Perth, > Kinross and Fife, and these will have been produced by people native to > the area, who will be familiar with the names likely to be encountered. > > > Gavin Bell

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: GordonPertJohnson Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/1623.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The only Helen Henderson I have was born in 1858, sorry. Look for yours in the same location as 1851, but with an age up to 4 years MORE than expected (1841 census rounded down all the ages to the nearest 5-year point. 1841 also did not include relationships, or parish of birth, so do not expect to see that.) Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

On 29/11/2012 00:12, Nivard Ovington wrote: > You are most welcome > > If you think about it the names like SMITH , BROWN etc are well known > and are unlikely to be wrongly recorded or transcribed (although they > still can of course) because people are familiar with them in most places > > But names which are a little more unusual such as your own are very open > to errors > > Names are recorded in error, misheard, even when they are written down > by the bearer of the surname the next person transcribing it may not > understand what the bearer wrote I don't believe a name like TEVIOTDALE would commonly be mistranscribed by the Census Enumerator - as a surname, it is not particularly widespread, but it is also the name of a river valley in the Scottish Borders, and figures in Sir Walter Scott's pseudo-Jacobite song "Blue Bonnets Ower the Border", so is likely to have been perfectly familiar to an averagely-educated Scot of the mid-19th century. What is far more likely is that the name was mistranscribed at a much later stage (ie within the last few years) by someone entirely unfamiliar with Scottish names and 19th-century handwriting. Ancestry are rumoured to have had their Census transcriptions done in India, where data entry charges may be lower, but where familiarity with Scottish personal and place names cannot necessarily be guaranteed. But Ancestry's is not the only transcription available. Scotland's People transcriptions are generally more reliable, and Tay Valley Family History Society sell Census indexes for the counties of Angus, Perth, Kinross and Fife, and these will have been produced by people native to the area, who will be familiar with the names likely to be encountered. Gavin Bell

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: gspeel Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/1623.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi I am looking for information on a Helen Henderson, the only information I have is in the 1851 census she was aged 76 and living with her Great ?? Grand daughter Ann Peel in Dudhope st Prestons Road thanks Geoff Peel Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

You are most welcome If you think about it the names like SMITH , BROWN etc are well known and are unlikely to be wrongly recorded or transcribed (although they still can of course) because people are familiar with them in most places But names which are a little more unusual such as your own are very open to errors Names are recorded in error, misheard, even when they are written down by the bearer of the surname the next person transcribing it may not understand what the bearer wrote Certain parts of names are more prone to error than others, the DALE part is more likely to be correct than the TEVIOT part So a search for *DALE may find some options that are not found using the whole name or even TEVIOT* Try all variations, and look for common denominators in the results Ancestrys transcripts, although rather mixed up at times are very useful as you can search for other factors and you will often pin down the person you want despite the transcription error If you have Ancestry do try and enter the correction or variation to the entries for Robert and family, it not only helps you when you want to find them again but may also be a signpost to any other researcher looking for them as your id is recorded for them to make contact with you I noticed there were a few possibles of your name in the Probate Calendars on Ancestry, just in case you don't have them Jane Teviotdale 1898 9 Jan 1898 Norwich, Norfolk, England David Wightman Teviotdale 1931 16 Jul 1931 Cardiganshire, Wales Edward John Smythe Teviotdale 1935 29 Sep 1934 Suffolk, England Elizabeth Fleming Teviotdale 1947 12 Mar 1943 USA David Teviotdale 1946 15 Jan 1946 Cheshire, England Annie Teviotdale 1947 4 Jun 1947 Cardiganshire, Wales William James Teviotdale 1949 12 Apr 1949 London, England Alexander Stuart Teviotdale 1954 9 Mar 1954 Renfrewshire, Scotland John Henry Teviotdale 1958 28 Oct 1957 Middlesex, England Margaret Teviotdale 1957 19 Jun 1957 Northumberland, England Lucy Maggie Teviotdale 1963 9 Mar 1963 Norwich David Frederick Teviotdale 1966 10 Dec 1965 Essex, England Helen Dishington Tevotdale 1891 7 Apr 1891 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/11/2012 23:20, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > > Believe it or not I thought totally wrongly as you have proven, that having a surname of Teviotdale would have made family research reasonably straightforward, compared to my wife who is looking for Jimmy Milne, no middle name, farm labourer in Angus. > > I know of a family with nine children and the spelling is three Tevendales, three Tavendales and three Teviotdales. > > I know of variations of my surname and include Twistdale in there, but Jeroldala is a new one on me. > > I had tried using soundex and other variant spellings but not sure if I had Teverdale. > > I have been to the GRO in Edinburgh a few times, but never found Teristdale either. > > > I greatly appreciate your help. I am now able to tie my Teviotdales to Ms Ramsay Teviotdale of Arlington, Virginia with whom I have been corresponding for about ten years, and met while in Washington D.C. on holiday. > > > Thank You. > > Euan.

This is Julia Rait death & 2nd Marriage 1 1902 RAIT JULIA KINNEAR F 80 ARBROATH /ANGUS 272/01 0353 1 1881 KINNEAR JOHN TEVIOTDALE JULIA MONTROSE /ANGUS 312/00 0010 On the death it gives 2nd marriage to John Kinnear Robert Tevioldale must have died 1861 to 1881 when Juliy re-married 34 1874 TEVIOTDALE ROBERT M 70 ARBROATH /ANGUS 272/00 0196 There are no more Robert Teviotdale on Scotlands People ----- Original Message ----- From: "EUAN TEVIOTDALE" <euan.teviotdale@btopenworld.com> To: <angus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Prisoners Hi Nivard, I have worked out his birth date to be around 1826. 1851 census has Robert and Julia living at 87 Dudhope Crescent, Dundee . He was a Warehouseman. He is not in the 1861 or 1871 census, but his wife and son are. According to the census he is in, it states birth in St.Andrews Fifeshire? Don't know whether it should have been St.Andrews in Edinburgh. He was married in Arbroath in 1848 to Julia Raitt. I was hoping to get his death cert which would have given me some relevant details. Thanks Euan. ________________________________ From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> To: angus@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2012, 18:54 Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Prisoners Hi again It would help us to try and help you if you post the rough age and birthplace or whatever you have on him If you have the census entry all the better post that and we can see if he is hiding elsewhere :-) Is this the same Robert TEVIOTDALE in the Papers in 1849 for theft? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Hi Nivard, Believe it or not I thought totally wrongly as you have proven, that having a surname of Teviotdale would have made family research reasonably straightforward, compared to my wife who is looking for Jimmy Milne, no middle name, farm labourer in Angus. I know of  a family with nine children and the spelling is  three Tevendales, three Tavendales and three Teviotdales. I know of variations of my surname and include Twistdale in there, but Jeroldala is a new one on me. I had tried using soundex and other variant spellings but not sure if I had Teverdale. I have been to the GRO in Edinburgh a few times, but never found Teristdale either. I greatly appreciate your help. I am now able to tie my Teviotdales to Ms Ramsay Teviotdale of  Arlington, Virginia with whom I have been corresponding for about ten years, and met while in Washington D.C. on holiday. Thank You. Euan. ________________________________ From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> To: angus@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2012, 22:39 Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Prisoners Hi again Had you found the 1841 On Ancestry as 1841 Scotland Census about Robert Teverdale Name:     Robert Teverdale Age:     15 Estimated Birth Year:     abt 1826 Gender:     Male Where born:     Scotland Civil parish:     Arbroath County:     Angus Address:     Park Flint Parish Number:     272 Household Members:     Name     Age James Teverdale     35 Flaxdresser Sarah Teverdale     35 Jane Teverdale     15 Flax Spinner Robert Teverdale     15 Ann Teverdale     10 Matilda Teverdale     10 Alexander Teverdale     9 David Teverdale     7 Parish: Arbroath; ED: 3; Page: 3; Line: 506; Year: 1841. In 1851 (I strongly suspect this is them , interesting transcription work there <g>) 1851 Scotland Census about Robert Jeroldala Name:     Robert Jeroldala Age:     25 Estimated Birth Year:     abt 1826 Relationship:     Head Spouse's Name:     Julia Jeroldala Gender:     Male Where born:     St Andrews, fifeshire Parish Number:     282 Civil parish:     Dundee Town:     Dundee County:     Angus Address:     Dudhope Crescent Occupation:     Warehouseman ED:     33 Page:     21 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number:     87 Line:     1 Roll:     CSSCT1851_61 Household Members:     Name     Age Robert Jeroldala     25 Julia Jeroldala     30 St Vigeans, Forfar Parish: Dundee; ED: 33; Page: 21; Line: 1; Roll: CSSCT1851_61; Year: 1851. And in 1861 1861 Scotland Census about Robert Teristdale Name:     Robert Teristdale Age:     35 Estimated Birth Year:     abt 1826 Relationship:     Head Spouse's name :     Julia Teristdale Gender:     Male Where born:     St Andrew, fifeshire Registration number:     272 Registration district:     Arbroath Civil parish:     St Vigeans Town:     Arbroath County:     Angus Address:     10 Guthrie Hill Occupation:     Flaxdresser Overseer ED:     26 Household schedule number:     100 Line:     6 Roll:     CSSCT1861_36 Household Members:     Name     Age Robert Teristdale     35 Julia Teristdale     39 St Vigeans, Forfarshire Adam R Teristdale     9 Dundee, Forfarshire Parish: St Vigeans; ED: 26; Page: 17; Line: 6; Roll: CSSCT1861_36. Its imperative that you get the original page though, scotlandspeople is the easiest source Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/11/2012 22:23, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > > I have worked out his birth date to be around 1826. 1851 census has > Robert  and Julia living at 87 Dudhope Crescent, Dundee . He was a > Warehouseman. He is not in the 1861 or 1871 census, but his wife and > son are. > > According to the census he is in, it states birth in St.Andrews > Fifeshire? Don't know whether it should have been St.Andrews in > Edinburgh. > > He was married in Arbroath in 1848 to Julia Raitt. I was hoping to > get his death cert which would have given me some relevant details. > > > Thanks > > Euan. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again Had you found the 1841 On Ancestry as 1841 Scotland Census about Robert Teverdale Name: Robert Teverdale Age: 15 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil parish: Arbroath County: Angus Address: Park Flint Parish Number: 272 Household Members: Name Age James Teverdale 35 Flaxdresser Sarah Teverdale 35 Jane Teverdale 15 Flax Spinner Robert Teverdale 15 Ann Teverdale 10 Matilda Teverdale 10 Alexander Teverdale 9 David Teverdale 7 Parish: Arbroath; ED: 3; Page: 3; Line: 506; Year: 1841. In 1851 (I strongly suspect this is them , interesting transcription work there <g>) 1851 Scotland Census about Robert Jeroldala Name: Robert Jeroldala Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relationship: Head Spouse's Name: Julia Jeroldala Gender: Male Where born: St Andrews, fifeshire Parish Number: 282 Civil parish: Dundee Town: Dundee County: Angus Address: Dudhope Crescent Occupation: Warehouseman ED: 33 Page: 21 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 87 Line: 1 Roll: CSSCT1851_61 Household Members: Name Age Robert Jeroldala 25 Julia Jeroldala 30 St Vigeans, Forfar Parish: Dundee; ED: 33; Page: 21; Line: 1; Roll: CSSCT1851_61; Year: 1851. And in 1861 1861 Scotland Census about Robert Teristdale Name: Robert Teristdale Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Julia Teristdale Gender: Male Where born: St Andrew, fifeshire Registration number: 272 Registration district: Arbroath Civil parish: St Vigeans Town: Arbroath County: Angus Address: 10 Guthrie Hill Occupation: Flaxdresser Overseer ED: 26 Household schedule number: 100 Line: 6 Roll: CSSCT1861_36 Household Members: Name Age Robert Teristdale 35 Julia Teristdale 39 St Vigeans, Forfarshire Adam R Teristdale 9 Dundee, Forfarshire Parish: St Vigeans; ED: 26; Page: 17; Line: 6; Roll: CSSCT1861_36. Its imperative that you get the original page though, scotlandspeople is the easiest source Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/11/2012 22:23, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > > I have worked out his birth date to be around 1826. 1851 census has > Robert and Julia living at 87 Dudhope Crescent, Dundee . He was a > Warehouseman. He is not in the 1861 or 1871 census, but his wife and > son are. > > According to the census he is in, it states birth in St.Andrews > Fifeshire? Don't know whether it should have been St.Andrews in > Edinburgh. > > He was married in Arbroath in 1848 to Julia Raitt. I was hoping to > get his death cert which would have given me some relevant details. > > > Thanks > > Euan.

Hi Nivard, I have worked out his birth date to be around 1826. 1851 census has Robert and Julia living at 87 Dudhope Crescent, Dundee . He was a Warehouseman. He is not in the 1861 or 1871 census, but his wife and son are. According to the census he is in, it states birth in St.Andrews  Fifeshire? Don't know whether it should have been St.Andrews in Edinburgh. He was married in Arbroath in 1848 to Julia Raitt. I was hoping to get his death cert which would have given me some relevant details. Thanks Euan. ________________________________ From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> To: angus@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2012, 18:54 Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Prisoners Hi again It would help us to try and help you if you post the rough age and birthplace or whatever you have on him If you have the census entry all the better post that and we can see if he is hiding elsewhere :-) Is this the same Robert TEVIOTDALE in the Papers in 1849 for theft? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/11/2012 17:43, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: > Hi  again, > > > Thanks for your help. > > I haven't been able to find my Robert or his death cert. > > I have worked out using the census roughly how old he was, but to no avail. I have tried all the spelling variations, of which there are many.Still no luck. > > When I saw this newspaper article I thought may be this was the reason, he was in prison, or died in prison.I cannot find him in Scotlands people at all. I will have to look at the prospect of him not being in Scotland when he died. > > Euan. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Did you know that Keiller in Australia is also spelt Killer and they came from England not Scotland? Cheers Roslyn. -----Original Message----- From: laurence family tree Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 8:16 PM To: angus@rootsweb.com Subject: [ANGUS] New Zealand Keiller >From 1875 Keiller deaths New Zealand Keiller Birt 1944/18734 Keiller Ernest James 77Y Order Product 1945/24819 Keiller Ann Jane 86Y Order Product 1977/47513 Keiller Marjorie 11 October 1904 Order Product 1961/26607 Keiller Annie Durie 55Y Order Product 1962/25455 Keiller John Blackley 65Y Order Product 1981/41422 Keiller Frederick 8 October 1905 Order Product 1977/52234 Keiller Brian Edwin 18 July 1901 Order Product 1926/6442 Keiller William Albert 62Y Order Product 1909/4831 Keiller Edwin 45Y Order Product 1905/6583 Keiller Muriel Katherine 24Y Order Product 1934/7357 Keiller William Mills 53Y Order Product 1992/33948 Keiller Isabella Lizzie 15 January 1902 Order Product 1981/38850 Keiller Helena Maude 23 August 1909 Order Product 1948/29854 Keiller Leslie Watson 52 Order Product 1988/47953 Keiller Laura Marjorie Alexandra 9 November 1906 Order Product 1941/17068 Keiller Rosemary 45Y ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keiller Births New Zealand Registration Number Family Name Given Name(s) Mother's Given Name(s) Father's Given Name(s) Still Birth 1901/14539 Keiller Brian Edwin Muriel Katherine Edwin - Order Product 1903/20623 Keiller Muriel Cecile Muriel Katherine Edwin --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keiller Marriage New Zealand Registration Number Bride's Given Name(s) Bride's Family Name Groom's Given Name(s) Groom's Family Name 1925/7672 Muriel Cecile Keiller James Busby Williams Order Product 1897/617 Maud Elizabeth Catherine Keiller William Charles Birch Caceia-Birch Order Product 1920/6851 Isabella Dick Keiller Frederick Bramwell Cranston 1932/7400 Helena Maude Harcourt Brian Edwin Keiller Order Product 1919/4859 Rosemary McDonald Leslie Watson Keiller Order Product 1900/4784 Muriel Katharine Waitt Edwin Keiller Order Product 1931/5485 Laura Marjorie Alexandria Wallis Frederick Keiller --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again It would help us to try and help you if you post the rough age and birthplace or whatever you have on him If you have the census entry all the better post that and we can see if he is hiding elsewhere :-) Is this the same Robert TEVIOTDALE in the Papers in 1849 for theft? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/11/2012 17:43, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: > Hi again, > > > Thanks for your help. > > I haven't been able to find my Robert or his death cert. > > I have worked out using the census roughly how old he was, but to no avail. I have tried all the spelling variations, of which there are many.Still no luck. > > When I saw this newspaper article I thought may be this was the reason, he was in prison, or died in prison.I cannot find him in Scotlands people at all. I will have to look at the prospect of him not being in Scotland when he died. > > Euan.

Hi Euan, You say he was sentenced in 1857. Any luck finding him in the next census which would be 1861? Do you know his occupation? If he was a seaman or member of the armed forces he could have died overseas and not been registered in Scotland. Cheers, Bruce D ----- Original Message ----- From: "EUAN TEVIOTDALE" <euan.teviotdale@btopenworld.com> To: <angus@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Prisoners Hi again, Thanks for your help. I haven't been able to find my Robert or his death cert. I have worked out using the census roughly how old he was, but to no avail. I have tried all the spelling variations, of which there are many.Still no luck. When I saw this newspaper article I thought may be this was the reason, he was in prison, or died in prison.I cannot find him in Scotlands people at all. I will have to look at the prospect of him not being in Scotland when he died. Euan. ________________________________ From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> To: angus@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2012, 15:39 Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Prisoners Hi again His death would be registered where it occurred and in the usual registers, if he was in prison it would be registered wherever the prison was Try <http://www.pkc.gov.uk/Education+and+learning/Libraries+archives+and+learning+centres/Archives/Archives+and+family+history/Family+history.htm> For prison records Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/11/2012 14:46, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > I am working my way through the newspaper section in Find my Past, > and only read about one Robert Teviotdale being sent to prison for > nine months by Arbroath Sheriff Court in May 1857. However further > reading through the newspapers show that he was in Perth prison. I > wondered if he had died in Perth prison would the death cert be > registered in Perth, or was there somewhere else that prisoners > deaths were registered. > > Thanks Euan. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2629/5921 - Release Date: 11/26/12

Hi  again, Thanks for your help. I haven't been able to find my Robert or his death cert.  I have worked out using the census roughly how old he was, but to no avail. I have tried all the spelling variations, of which there are many.Still no luck. When I saw this newspaper article I thought may be this was the reason, he was in prison, or died in prison.I cannot find him in Scotlands people at all. I will have to look at the prospect of him not being in Scotland when he died. Euan.  ________________________________ From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> To: angus@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2012, 15:39 Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Prisoners Hi again His death would be registered where it occurred and in the usual registers, if he was in prison it would be registered wherever the prison was Try <http://www.pkc.gov.uk/Education+and+learning/Libraries+archives+and+learning+centres/Archives/Archives+and+family+history/Family+history.htm> For prison records Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/11/2012 14:46, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > I am working my way through the newspaper section in Find my Past, > and only read about one Robert Teviotdale being sent to prison for > nine months by Arbroath Sheriff Court in May 1857. However further > reading through the newspapers show that he was in Perth prison. I > wondered if he had died in Perth  prison would the death cert be > registered in Perth, or was there somewhere else that prisoners > deaths were registered. > > Thanks Euan. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Euan, As this is into the period of civil registration, are you searching on Scotland's People for the death register entry? And, have you any other information that leads you to think he died in prison? Best, Jenny On 28/11/2012 14:46, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: Hi Nivard, I am working my way through the newspaper section in Find my Past, and only rea d about one Robert Teviotdale being sent to prison for nine months by Arbroath Sheriff Court in May 1857. However further reading through the newspapers show that he was in Perth prison. I wondered if he had died in Perth prison would t he death cert be registered in Perth, or was there somewhere else that prisoner s deaths were registered.

Hi again His death would be registered where it occurred and in the usual registers, if he was in prison it would be registered wherever the prison was Try <http://www.pkc.gov.uk/Education+and+learning/Libraries+archives+and+learning+centres/Archives/Archives+and+family+history/Family+history.htm> For prison records Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/11/2012 14:46, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > I am working my way through the newspaper section in Find my Past, > and only read about one Robert Teviotdale being sent to prison for > nine months by Arbroath Sheriff Court in May 1857. However further > reading through the newspapers show that he was in Perth prison. I > wondered if he had died in Perth prison would the death cert be > registered in Perth, or was there somewhere else that prisoners > deaths were registered. > > Thanks Euan.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: GordonPertJohnson Surnames: Henderson, Pert, Coull, Paton. Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.ans.general/1623.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello, Clive. I have the master database for Perts and Coulls from Ferryden. If you email me with details of your family back to at least 1880, I may be able to connect your family to my database, which has over 10,000 interconnected people on it. I have 31 Hendersons in it already. Regards, Gordon Johnson. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Hi Nivard,   I am working my way through the newspaper section in Find my Past, and only read about one Robert Teviotdale being sent to prison for nine months by Arbroath Sheriff Court in May 1857. However further reading through the newspapers show that he was in Perth prison. I wondered if he had died in Perth  prison would the death cert be registered in Perth, or was there somewhere else that prisoners deaths were registered.   Thanks Euan. From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> To: angus@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2012, 13:20 Subject: Re: [ANGUS] Prisoners Hi Euan With such vague information I doubt anyone will be able to help you or at least give pertinent information Who, when and where are you referring to With more detail you may get better results Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/11/2012 13:01, EUAN TEVIOTDALE wrote: > > > Hi all. > > How do I find out where/if a person was jailed? If they died in prison,where are the records kept for that. > > Thanks > Euan. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ANGUS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message