----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 2:18 AM Subject: RAPETTI, MEANI Thought it was about time I posted my research details. My great grandfather, Luigi (Louis) Rapetti, came to London from Italy (Torino, I believe although no documents can be found to back this up) and lived in various addresses including, Warrington Street; Wells Street, Soho & Little Bath Street, Holborn. From the British documents I have, he would have been born around 1871/2. He married my great-grandmother AFTER the birth of their three children (which seems strange) and they weren't married in the Italian Church but St Aloysius in Euston in 1914. From the extract I have, it seems that he wasn't the only Italian to be married there, so may be worth a look. On the birth certificate of their eldest child, my grandfather, born in 1910 it states that they are already married, although they weren't married until 1914. Was any evidence required in those days or would their word have been accepted on this (i.e. were they "covering up" the fact that they were unmarried?). Without the exact birthplace of my great grandfather, research has proved impossible. I've been drawing blanks for over 15 years on this!! I assume that the surname MEANI also features in our family somewhere because my grandfather's name was Claudio Felice Andrea Meani RAPETTI. As I've never come across Meani as a first name I'm assuming that there is some reference to another family name. His two brothers just have three first names each : Ugo Mario Oreste & Louis Ronaldo Celeste. As my great grandfather died when my grandfather was just 5 there's not much info to go on. My great grandmother remarried and talk of her first husband was banned - therefore no info to pass down! As my grandfather was involved in the London Italian community, my family has very much retained that part of our heritage. Any assistance or ideas would be fantastic. Of course, like many others, I'm waiting for the 1901 census to see if there's any info there. Regards Sarah Lucia RAPETTI --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 2002-22-Mar

Thanks very much Diane. I will have a look at this site today and hope that it may give me a lead. Good luck in your research. Best wishes Toni > Hello Toni, I too am looking for Italian musicians, my gggrandfather was > Joseph (probably Anglicised from Guiseppe?) EROTY / EROTTI. At least this > is his name and occupation according to his daughter's first marriage > certificate in 1872. I haven't yet been able to find anything out about him > and the name does not appear on any census that I've been able to search. > > > However, you may find the following site useful: > http://www.entertainer-genealogy.org.uk/ > > Best of luck, Diane _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Re Retha Amadio's posting snipped below :- At 19:08 30/03/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, >I recently just joined the anglo-italian rootsweb. I have been >researching my husband Italian ancestry. His gggrandfather, Fortunato >Amadio left Rome, Italy and arrived in Dover, England May 30, 1831. He is listed in the alien registry.>> Can anyone tell me what that is and where it is held and if access is available to me in Australia? Thanks in advance Eunice

Elaine asked about Italian communities in Wales, especially their churches. I presume for records, we're more interested in pre-WWII communities. >From T. Colpi's "The Italian factor : The Italian community in Great Britain" it seems that although there were Italians in Cardiff, Swansea and Newport, most were scattered in valleys of mid Glamorgan. Porth, Treorchy, Tony Pandy and Methyr Tydfil Italians were initially immigrants from Parma, especially Borgo Val di Taro and Bardi. There was of course chain migration of friends and relatives. We were surprised when a GHIRARDANI family we met in 1970 in Varsi, Parma (near Bardi) spoke English with a Welsh accent, but they were part of a common migration pattern that I've only just learnt about. With Italians scattered, there were really no particular churches catering to them. Daphne Dashfield (Geradine) GHIRARDANI and spellings... to GERADINE

I thought this list of Anglo-Italian Associations might be of interest to some of you. http://www.e-italici.org/contenuti/archivio/address/community_social_address/community_social_adress_granbretagna.asp (paste both halves of the URL if it breaks onto 2 lines) I think the members are likely to be 1st and 2nd generation post war immigrants who have not yet lost their ties to Italy. (I'm 5th generation and grew up with no contact with the community, unlike my father who at least used to visit relatives in Clerkenwell) Does anyone belong to any of these organisations? Daphne Dashfield (Geradine) GHIRARDANI + 14 other spellings

Dear Eunice, I forgot to mention that the alien register records are names of people that immigrated to England from other countries. It gives the name, date, year and port where they landed in England and a reference number to the original paper work, that is if that particular paper work wasn't destroyed in a fire like mine was. Retha On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:48:30 +1000 E & R Shanahan <[email protected]> writes: > Re Retha Amadio's posting snipped below :- > At 19:08 30/03/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi, > >I recently just joined the anglo-italian rootsweb. I have been > >researching my husband Italian ancestry. His gggrandfather, > Fortunato > >Amadio left Rome, Italy and arrived in Dover, England May 30, 1831. > He is > listed in the alien registry.>> > > Can anyone tell me what that is and where it is held and if access > is > available to me in Australia? > Thanks in advance > Eunice > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > Italian Research > http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Dear Eunice, The Kew public record office for the alien register records is in Kew, Richmond, Surrey England. I think you may have to go there to get your information, but they do have a website, which is http://www.pro.gov.uk. I don't know if you can get it by writing to them or not. If you know of anyone in England that lives near there, maybe they can go for you. Retha Amadio On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:48:30 +1000 E & R Shanahan <[email protected]> writes: > Re Retha Amadio's posting snipped below :- > At 19:08 30/03/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi, > >I recently just joined the anglo-italian rootsweb. I have been > >researching my husband Italian ancestry. His gggrandfather, > Fortunato > >Amadio left Rome, Italy and arrived in Dover, England May 30, 1831. > He is > listed in the alien registry.>> > > Can anyone tell me what that is and where it is held and if access > is > available to me in Australia? > Thanks in advance > Eunice > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > Italian Research > http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Retha Amadio" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 3:08 AM Subject: Unidentified subject! Hi, I recently just joined the anglo-italian rootsweb. I have been researching my husband Italian ancestry. His gggrandfather, Fortunato Amadio left Rome, Italy and arrived in Dover, England May 30, 1831. He is listed in the alien registry. It doesn't mention the name of the ship he was on. Would anyone know how I can find out the name of the ship and find his ship records? He was the coachman for the 2nd Marquis of Northampton. For many years, we didn't have any information on Fortunato and when he arrived in England, until now. Fortunato married an english lady by the name of Anne Morris from Ecton, Northampton, England. I am also interest in finding his daughters descendents. They may still be living in England. They would be my husbands 3rd or 4th cousins. If anyone has information on any of the people listed below, I would love for them to contact me. The daughters were: Margaret Ann - born -1841 married Adam Kerr son: George Amadio Kerr married Ethyl Maud Noon Lucy born - 1842 married Henry Doel daughters: Lucy Amadio Doel married married her first cousin Herbert Ensor, in 1903. Emily Margaret Doel married William Percival Turner - Newspaper publisher in Rotherham son: Eric Doel Turner married Rita Janice Mary Robinson in 1928. Eric and Rita had a daughter Named: Janice Margaret Carol Turner - born approximately in 1930. Janice married a Frederick Wadsworth and had two children: William Turner Hilton Wadsworth - born 1956 Georgina Mary Ann Wadsworth - born 1958 I was given the information on the Turners from people that knew them many years ago, but they don't know where they would be now. If anyone can answer any of my questions, it would be helpful. Thank you, Retha Amadio [email protected] ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== Inaugural Meeting of the Anglo-Italian Family History At the SOG Fair at 3pm For the venue address look at http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 2002-22-Mar

----- Original Message ----- From: The Bayleys To: I[email protected] Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 10:00 AM Subject: re: galliers Hi Juile I have had to send this via the list as when I reply to your address it comes back to me. Thank you for your reply and the information you gave me, re:Galliers name, I only found out the year last week and sent off for the marriage certificate. I was told takes approx 28 days, if its ok I will you email when I have received it. kind regards Christina

To A Williams I don't think this is unusual for people in the 1850's to walk this far. My gr grandfather and cousins who came from the Swiss/Italian border area walked to Hamburg to get on the boat to come to Australia in the 1850's. Regards Joan Vivian [email protected] Searching for VIVIAN/VYVYAN, MORESI, TURIN, HOLMES, JUDD, JENKYN, QUICK

Hi Some of my descendants settled in Wales around 1905. They were all baptized, married and buried in Abertillery,diocese of Newport in Saint Mary's Chruch. They were originally from Morfasso which is not far from Bardi and the name is Micheli Felicia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daphne Dashfield" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 5:23 AM Subject: [Anglo-Italian] Italians in Wales > Elaine asked about Italian communities in Wales, especially their > churches. I presume for records, we're more interested in pre-WWII > communities. > > >From T. Colpi's "The Italian factor : The Italian community in Great > Britain" it seems that although there were Italians in Cardiff, Swansea > and Newport, most were scattered in valleys of mid Glamorgan. > > Porth, Treorchy, Tony Pandy and Methyr Tydfil Italians were initially > immigrants from Parma, especially Borgo Val di Taro and Bardi. There was > of course chain migration of friends and relatives. We were surprised > when a GHIRARDANI family we met in 1970 in Varsi, Parma (near Bardi) > spoke English with a Welsh accent, but they were part of a common > migration pattern that I've only just learnt about. > > With Italians scattered, there were really no particular churches > catering to them. > > Daphne Dashfield (Geradine) > GHIRARDANI and spellings... to GERADINE > > > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > Italian Research > http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Thanks to all who replied - at least I have something to go on now. A Williams [email protected]

There are a group of Italian Musicians living at 25 Gerard St, Liverpool, in 1871. I've listed the surnames only - if anyone wants more details please get in touch (the writing on the census is pretty poor, but hope that some sound familiar): ?Autrina Garibaldi ?Penetra ?Autorina ?Ambrosia(n) ?Feiufer ?Lassolia Mutty A Williams [email protected]

I am trying to trace some Italian ancestors with very little to go on - not even names! Any suggestions as to where to begin looking would be very gratefully received. A well known Italian flower seller who worked in the markets around the Islington area of London in c1910. I know him only as "Flowery Jo". Although not named on the birth certificate, he is my grandmother's father. I was told that he may have appeared in a book of re-published newspaper photos, but I have been unable to discover this book. Several Italian sisters who married several brothers with the name of Adams and each couple were music hall artistes. One couple were quite well known and were known as (Italian name) and (Italian name). This would have been just after the turn of the century. The family have come from the Cambridge area. Anybody got any ideas? Toni Leather

For Elaine The address is Vice Consolato D'Italia 14 Museum Place Cardiff CF1 3BH The suggestion made by the Vice Consul was "However, you may try the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MAE) in Rome where records of diplomatic posting may still exist." Well, as my Italian is nil, and this is only a forlorn hope for me I don't think I can follow that one up, does anyone on the list know if that would be a viable option ? re the missing records - This was the relevant sentence "I am afraid I cannot help you at all as all the records of this Vice Consulate have been lost during a fire at the Italian Consulate General in London where they were kept in 1980"... I have no knowledge at all of my grandfather, so cannot help regards the church of but I have birth certificates for both my mother and her sister from the GRO which have no church mentioned on them. So I cannot be of any help there I'm afraid. Cheers Eunice

Hi, I recently just joined the anglo-italian rootsweb. I have been researching my husband Italian ancestry. His gggrandfather, Fortunato Amadio left Rome, Italy and arrived in Dover, England May 30, 1831. He is listed in the alien registry. It doesn't mention the name of the ship he was on. Would anyone know how I can find out the name of the ship and find his ship records? He was the coachman for the 2nd Marquis of Northampton. For many years, we didn't have any information on Fortunato and when he arrived in England, until now. Fortunato married an english lady by the name of Anne Morris from Ecton, Northampton, England. I am also interest in finding his daughters descendents. They may still be living in England. They would be my husbands 3rd or 4th cousins. If anyone has information on any of the people listed below, I would love for them to contact me. The daughters were: Margaret Ann - born -1841 married Adam Kerr son: George Amadio Kerr married Ethyl Maud Noon Lucy born - 1842 married Henry Doel daughters: Lucy Amadio Doel married married her first cousin Herbert Ensor, in 1903. Emily Margaret Doel married William Percival Turner - Newspaper publisher in Rotherham son: Eric Doel Turner married Rita Janice Mary Robinson in 1928. Eric and Rita had a daughter Named: Janice Margaret Carol Turner - born approximately in 1930. Janice married a Frederick Wadsworth and had two children: William Turner Hilton Wadsworth - born 1956 Georgina Mary Ann Wadsworth - born 1958 I was given the information on the Turners from people that knew them many years ago, but they don't know where they would be now. If anyone can answer any of my questions, it would be helpful. Thank you, Retha Amadio [email protected] ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Thanks very much for this Eunice. Every little helps, even negative information! Best wishes, Elaine > For Elaine > The address is > Vice Consolato D'Italia > 14 Museum Place > Cardiff CF1 3BH > > The suggestion made by the Vice Consul was > "However, you may try the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MAE) in > Rome where records of diplomatic posting may still exist." > > > Well, as my Italian is nil, and this is only a forlorn hope for me I don't > think I can follow that one up, does anyone on the list know if that would > be a viable option ? > > > re the missing records - > This was the relevant sentence > "I am afraid I cannot help you at all as all the records of this Vice > Consulate have been lost during a fire at the Italian Consulate General in > London where they were kept in 1980"... > > I have no knowledge at all of my grandfather, so cannot help regards the > church of but I have birth certificates for both my mother and her sister > from the GRO which have no church mentioned on them. So I cannot be of any > help there I'm afraid. > > Cheers > Eunice > > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > Inaugural Meeting of the Anglo-Italian Family History > At the SOG Fair at 3pm For the venue address look at > http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go > to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

hello, it was apparently very common for Italians to arrive that way, particularly the ones who came originally as seasonal workers, who would work as they walked (playing music, selling statuettes etc). Most of the immigrants at this time were from northern and central Italy (the mas exodus from the south cam much later) and particularly from the Appeninie valleys where Emilia Romagna meets Liguria and Tuscany. If you check the archives there was an early exchange on this subject where a lister kindly pointed out an article from the Genealogist's Magazine, around 1987 which talk about where they tended to cross into France, and where they picked up the cross-channel ships and the records that exist. They were almost certainly too poor to afford the fair, which is why they left Italy looking for work either seasonally or permanently. Best wishes, Elaine > I have just been informed that my Italian Great-Grandfather Ferrie and his > brother walked across Europe from Italy to England (well, I know they would > have to take a boat for the channel crossing :-)). Would this have been a > common way of emigration during the 1850s/1860s, or was it because they were > too poor to afford the fare? Opinions welcome! > A Williams > [email protected] > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > Inaugural Meeting of the Anglo-Italian Family History > At the SOG Fair at 3pm For the venue address look at > http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go > to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Hi All, WOKING SURREY I have the address for the Italian Chaplins, 14 Oriental Road, WOKING Surrey GU22 7AW Regards Julie Goucher, List Owner Anglers Rest Indexes http://freespace.virgin.net/ar.indexes Anglers Rest Home Page http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Index.htm C J http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections C J Genealogy http://www.dreamwater.net/genealogy/Index.htm Fax & Voice Mail (+44) 0870 130 5474 One Name Study ORLANDO GOONS Registered --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 2002-22-Mar

Hello Toni, I too am looking for Italian musicians, my gggrandfather was Joseph (probably Anglicised from Guiseppe?) EROTY / EROTTI. At least this is his name and occupation according to his daughter's first marriage certificate in 1872. I haven't yet been able to find anything out about him and the name does not appear on any census that I've been able to search. However, you may find the following site useful: http://www.entertainer-genealogy.org.uk/ Best of luck, Diane -----Original Message----- From: Toni Leather [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 3:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Anglo-Italian] Market trader & Music hall act I am trying to trace some Italian ancestors with very little to go on - not even names! Any suggestions as to where to begin looking would be very gratefully received. A well known Italian flower seller who worked in the markets around the Islington area of London in c1910. I know him only as "Flowery Jo". Although not named on the birth certificate, he is my grandmother's father. I was told that he may have appeared in a book of re-published newspaper photos, but I have been unable to discover this book. Several Italian sisters who married several brothers with the name of Adams and each couple were music hall artistes. One couple were quite well known and were known as (Italian name) and (Italian name). This would have been just after the turn of the century. The family have come from the Cambridge area. Anybody got any ideas? Toni Leather ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== Italian Research http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237