----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Virzi" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:23 PM Subject: Laina surname Looking for the Laina surname. Dorothy LainaVirzi --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 2002-19-Apr

***AIFHS Membership Forms*** Hi All Just a quick note to let those who you who requested the membership forms that they have now been sent to you as a word.doc attachment. If anyone requires one please email me [email protected] and I will send one by attachment. Regards Stuart Goucher [email protected] Membership Secretary Anglo Italian FHS --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.349 / Virus Database: 195 - Release Date: 2002-16-Apr

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Cunningham" <[email protected]> To: "List Admin" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Anglo-Italian] Fw: Spelling of Surnames I don't mean to jump in, but my maiden name is Gheringhelli (spelled Ghiringhelli in Italy & changed somewhere along the way). I agree with that pronounciation. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "List Admin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: [Anglo-Italian] Fw: Spelling of Surnames > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ruth" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 5:28 PM > Subject: Spelling of Surnames > > > Daphine, > I like to admit when I am wrong. Today I saw an Italian friend of mine and > he confirmed what you said about the GHI sounding as gear, he also > confirmed the rest of what I mentioned was correct. > Best wishes > Ruth > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. > Version: 6.0.349 / Virus Database: 195 - Release Date: 2002-15-Apr > > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > Italian Research > http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.349 / Virus Database: 195 - Release Date: 2002-15-Apr

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 5:28 PM Subject: Spelling of Surnames Daphine, I like to admit when I am wrong. Today I saw an Italian friend of mine and he confirmed what you said about the GHI sounding as gear, he also confirmed the rest of what I mentioned was correct. Best wishes Ruth --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.349 / Virus Database: 195 - Release Date: 2002-15-Apr

----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Collins" <[email protected]> To: "List Admin" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Anglo-Italian] Fw: RITA Not an easy one Marianne. There is a small possibility that the record of the marriage in the original parish register might refer to his origins, and Italians must have been a fairly noteworthy rarity in Winchester in 1803. The register might also tell you his occupation, which might provide a clue to where he came from. If he was a tradesman, you might find him listed in trade or post-office directories, though they are few and far between for this period. Do you know for certain he was born in Italy? Do you know if he settled in Winchester or do you know of any other addresses? Was he still alive for the 1841 census? 1851? Was he naturalised or denizised? These records are held at the PRO. Some local records offices have records of the Justice of the Peace with whom aliens arriving between 1793 and 1826 would have had to register. These records where they exist give name, rank, address and occupation. If he arrived before 1793, he would have had to have paid double taxes and there may be treasury records (again at the PRO). The Calendar of Home Office papers record passes to foreigners coming into and out of England for most of the Eighteenth century (again held at the PRO), but these are only indexed up to 1775. Have you looked up the surname on http://gens.labo.net to see if it has a strong regional association? If you have further information to share it may suggest other possibilities. Good luck, Elaine The > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 9:27 PM > Subject: RITA > > > I am trying to trace when my ancestor Pietro Rita came to England. He was > married in 1803 in Winchester. How do I go about finding what part of Italy > he came from, and when. > Thanks > Marianne King (nee Rita) > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. > Version: 6.0.345 / Virus Database: 193 - Release Date: 2002-09-Apr > > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > Inaugural Meeting of the Anglo-Italian Family History > At the SOG Fair at 3pm For the venue address look at > http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go > to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.349 / Virus Database: 195 - Release Date: 2002-15-Apr

----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 9:27 PM Subject: RITA I am trying to trace when my ancestor Pietro Rita came to England. He was married in 1803 in Winchester. How do I go about finding what part of Italy he came from, and when. Thanks Marianne King (nee Rita) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.345 / Virus Database: 193 - Release Date: 2002-09-Apr

Hi All, The Membership Form for the Anglo Italian FHS is now available in advance of our Inaugural Meeting on the 4th May 2002 at the SOG Fair (3pm in the Bar!) If you want a copy of the form please email [email protected] and you will be sent one as an attachment, which can be printed and then returned to the address on the form. Regards Julie Goucher, List Owner Anglers Rest Indexes http://freespace.virgin.net/ar.indexes Anglers Rest Home Page http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Index.htm C J http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections C J Genealogy http://www.dreamwater.net/genealogy/Index.htm FreeCEN Surrey 1891 http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/freecen.htm Fax & Voice Mail (+44) 0870 130 5474 One Name Study ORLANDO GOONS Registered --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.345 / Virus Database: 193 - Release Date: 2002-09-Apr

Hello Diane > An 1861 London census would be a good starting point, or so I thought, until > someone suggested it would take me 2 years to search the fiche, since I > don't know what area they may have lived in London. You could try Clerkenwell since most Italians lived there at that time. > Would you mind giving the full title of the book & author you have suggested > please? The Italian Factor : The Italian Community in Great Britain. Terri Colpi. 1991. Mainstream, Edinburgh. For photographs: Italians Forwards : A Visual History of the Italian Community in Great Britain. Terri Colpi. 1991. Mainstream, Edinburgh. Daphne Dashfield (Geradine) GHIRARDANI etc.

Thank you for the information and all the subsequent questions and answers, most enlightning. Still hope for help on the POW issue. Thanks Norina >From: "Ruth" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [Anglo-Italian] Prisoner of war records. >Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:21:28 +0200 > >Norina, >I have checked my FHL CD, for records in the Mantova area and have found >the >following. I think it would be worth asking to see at least the index for >these. I also found a civil reg. for Suzzara, but date from 1806 to 1815 >which I think would be to early. >Hope this helps you >Ruth >Title Registri dello stato civile, 1714-1910 >Authors Mantova (Mantova). Registri di popolazione (Main Author) >Notes Microfilm dei registri originali nell'Archivio storico del comune, >Mantova. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > Testo in italiano e latino. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > Include indici parziali. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > Births, marriages, deaths, census records of Mantova and outlying >communities. Includes records of Jewish population and foreigners in the >city. >Subjects Italy, Mantova - Civil registration >Italy, Mantova - Census >Italy, Mantova - Minorities > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Norina Pauling" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 9:47 AM >Subject: [Anglo-Italian] Prisoner of war records. > > > > Does anyone know of any records for prisoners of war (WW11) in this >country? > > The Foreign Office pointedme in the direction of the PRO, but these seem >to > > be odd medical and general notes. Did nobody have a list of prisoners! >My > > father was put to work on a Bedfordshire Farm until sent back to Italy. >I > > know an official photo was taken with a prisoner number board, but > > unfortunately the picture has been lost. He returned to England after >the > > war but was never naturalised. He was supposed to have been born in >Suzzara, > > Italy, but when I enquired, the only reference sent back was for a >younger > > brother,( there were three boys and a girl altogether). Any suggestions, > > perhaps the registrar in Mantova mistook which person I was after, but I > > don't know how to rectify that. > > Norina > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > > NEW One Name Study ORLANDO > > All material gratefully received > > [email protected] > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy >records, >go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > >==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== >Italian Research >http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Hi Elaine & all: I have rented films here in Canada to check for ancestors from Reggio di Calabria. After researching my husbands ancestors in Bucks, I was amazed to find the Italian Records much easier to follow. They use an Index of Names & its at the end of each particular year. They code the names with #'s so you just have to check the names you are interested in. At least that how they did it in R.C., not sure if other provinces did the same. Ciao, Clara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Collins" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [Anglo-Italian] FHL and Prisoner of war records. > Hi Ruth, > > could you tell us what the FHL CD is? I haven't heard of it before but it > sounds rather useful. Is it the the Utah based Family History Library > catalogue? If so, it it different to the one that can be searched online at > http://familysearch.com? > > When I have checked this catalogue, the LDS (Latter Day Saints) aka Mormons > seem to have filmed a lot of Italian civil records, even though there are > very few Italian parish records in the IGI (International Genealogical > Index). Does anyone have any experience of ordering copies of these records > to be viewed at the local Family History Centre? I've often wondered how > many films you need to order to narrow it down and what the cost comes to, > and how long you have to wait. Would love to know if anyone has been through > this process. > > Best wishes, > > Elaine > > > Norina, > > I have checked my FHL CD, for records in the Mantova area and have found the > > following. I think it would be worth asking to see at least the index for > > these. I also found a civil reg. for Suzzara, but date from 1806 to 1815 > > which I think would be to early. > > Hope this helps you > > Ruth > > Title Registri dello stato civile, 1714-1910 > > Authors Mantova (Mantova). Registri di popolazione (Main Author) > > Notes Microfilm dei registri originali nell'Archivio storico del comune, > > Mantova. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > ---- > > Testo in italiano e latino. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > ---- > > Include indici parziali. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > ---- > > Births, marriages, deaths, census records of Mantova and outlying > > communities. Includes records of Jewish population and foreigners in the > > city. > > Subjects Italy, Mantova - Civil registration > > Italy, Mantova - Census > > Italy, Mantova - Minorities > > > > > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > Inaugural Meeting of the Anglo-Italian Family History > At the SOG Fair at 3pm For the venue address look at > http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Yes the CD is a copy of the Family History Library Cat. there is a new one out (updated). I must admit I find it a lot easier to use than the on line one. You can take your time and use several ways of searching for records. If anyone needs anything checking on the CD please go a head and let me know. I must admit that I used a volunteer in Utah to obtain my records, but she did say that the Italian records were much easier to look through and as Clara wrote, there are indexes for nearly all the years. As a small note. My volunteer turned out to be researching her Grandparents from here in Spain and last summer when she came to Spain she came to visit me in Ibiza for the day and brought over the CD as a gift. (Is'nt internet the most wonderful way of making friends) By the way has anyone got a copy of the Vital records Index for South West Europe, I am interested in knowing if it is worth buying. Ruth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Collins" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [Anglo-Italian] FHL and Prisoner of war records. > Hi Ruth, > > could you tell us what the FHL CD is? I haven't heard of it before but it > sounds rather useful. Is it the the Utah based Family History Library > catalogue? If so, it it different to the one that can be searched online at > http://familysearch.com? > > When I have checked this catalogue, the LDS (Latter Day Saints) aka Mormons > seem to have filmed a lot of Italian civil records, even though there are > very few Italian parish records in the IGI (International Genealogical > Index). Does anyone have any experience of ordering copies of these records > to be viewed at the local Family History Centre? I've often wondered how > many films you need to order to narrow it down and what the cost comes to, > and how long you have to wait. Would love to know if anyone has been through > this process. > > Best wishes, > > Elaine > > > Norina, > > I have checked my FHL CD, for records in the Mantova area and have found the > > following. I think it would be worth asking to see at least the index for > > these. I also found a civil reg. for Suzzara, but date from 1806 to 1815 > > which I think would be to early. > > Hope this helps you > > Ruth > > Title Registri dello stato civile, 1714-1910 > > Authors Mantova (Mantova). Registri di popolazione (Main Author) > > Notes Microfilm dei registri originali nell'Archivio storico del comune, > > Mantova. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > ---- > > Testo in italiano e latino. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > ---- > > Include indici parziali. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > ---- > > Births, marriages, deaths, census records of Mantova and outlying > > communities. Includes records of Jewish population and foreigners in the > > city. > > Subjects Italy, Mantova - Civil registration > > Italy, Mantova - Census > > Italy, Mantova - Minorities > > > > > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > Inaugural Meeting of the Anglo-Italian Family History > At the SOG Fair at 3pm For the venue address look at > http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

> Ghi at the begining sounds Ji (jim) As I understand it, Ghi is pronounced "G" as in "gear" (not as in Jim), "ee" (but short, more like i as in Jim). That's what the H is there for - changes the G before the I from a J sound). (Geradine) GHIRARDANI Variations: GERADINE, GHIRADANI, GEARDINI, GERARDINI, GHIREDANI, GHERARDINI, GHIRARDINI, GERADINI, JERIDINA, GERARDINE, GERARDANI, GEORDINI, JERIDI(E)NE, GHIRAND(I)ANI, GLARINI > I am pretty certain the Daphne's Surname is GERARDINI(E). > GHIRADANI is incorrect also GHERARDINI the first because of the DANI and the second GHE My original surname is GHIRARDANI - correctly spelt by an Italian priest at the Royal Sardinian chapel in Holborn in my gg grandparents' 1851 marriage. My gg grandfather could not write but he was musical and would not mispronounce his own name. An Italian priest would know the difference between the sound of GHI and GE, also DANI and DINI and would be likely to check carefully before recording the names. GHIRARDINI is much more common, but that is not what he wrote. However, a British clerk (or child chanting their ABC for their illiterate parents) would spell it Ge(e)rard?ne(e). I suggest that the 'a' of 'dani' sounds closer to 'i' as in wine than 'a' as in lane. It changed between my great aunts' and uncles' births to GERADINE, although not in the 1881 census. Other branches of the family seem to have mostly changed around that time. It has changed pronunciation from the original name, presumably after being spelt wrongly by one person and mispronounced by the next - and perhaps the family gave up to merge into British society. Some close relatives pronounce it to rhyme with wine, although my father rhymes it with 'dean' - that's how I grew up. Daphne Dashfield (Geradine) GHIRARDANI etc.

Hi Ruth, could you tell us what the FHL CD is? I haven't heard of it before but it sounds rather useful. Is it the the Utah based Family History Library catalogue? If so, it it different to the one that can be searched online at http://familysearch.com? When I have checked this catalogue, the LDS (Latter Day Saints) aka Mormons seem to have filmed a lot of Italian civil records, even though there are very few Italian parish records in the IGI (International Genealogical Index). Does anyone have any experience of ordering copies of these records to be viewed at the local Family History Centre? I've often wondered how many films you need to order to narrow it down and what the cost comes to, and how long you have to wait. Would love to know if anyone has been through this process. Best wishes, Elaine > Norina, > I have checked my FHL CD, for records in the Mantova area and have found the > following. I think it would be worth asking to see at least the index for > these. I also found a civil reg. for Suzzara, but date from 1806 to 1815 > which I think would be to early. > Hope this helps you > Ruth > Title Registri dello stato civile, 1714-1910 > Authors Mantova (Mantova). Registri di popolazione (Main Author) > Notes Microfilm dei registri originali nell'Archivio storico del comune, > Mantova. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Testo in italiano e latino. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Include indici parziali. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Births, marriages, deaths, census records of Mantova and outlying > communities. Includes records of Jewish population and foreigners in the > city. > Subjects Italy, Mantova - Civil registration > Italy, Mantova - Census > Italy, Mantova - Minorities > >

----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:03 AM Subject: Spelling of surnames I was interested in the emails about spelling of surnames. On my grandmother's birth certificate the name is spelt FUNNUCKE. On the 1881 census it is spelt FANICCHI. When I visited Lucca in Italy (where my Italian connection came from), I found headstones in the cemetery spelt FINUCCI. My ggrandfather was a sculptor who came to England in the mid 1800s - if anyone knows anything about this name please let me know. Regards, Jean --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by Expert Anti-Virus. Version: 6.0.345 / Virus Database: 193 - Release Date: 2002-09-Apr

Thanks Ruth, I'm following up on this and Daphne's similar suggestion. Do you, or anyone else, have any idea of the number of fiche for the 1861 London Cenus? Diane -----Original Message----- From: Ruth [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 1:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Anglo-Italian] Spelling of Surnames Here is a few tips on the sounding of Italian Surnames. E at the begining sounds similar to "air" air-roti = Erotti I at the begining and end sounds E Erotti o Erotte but I think is should be spelt Errotti G at the begining sounds J like Jelly Ghi at the begining sounds Ji (jim) Ghe does not exist J is not used in Italian Giu = Giuseppe sounds jewzepe S sounds like Z for instance Brazil in Italian is spelt Brasil and expresso is spelt exprezzo but sounds like "so" Desio my Grandfathers surname sounds Decio, if writen De Sio it would sound De Zio, however I have found it writen on papers as Dessio. I am pretty certain the Daphne's Surname is GERARDINI(E). GHIRADANI is incorrect also GHERARDINI the first because of the DANI and the second GHE Hope this gives you some ideas Ruth ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== Italian Research http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Yes, you're probably right Elaine, if only that 1901 Census was available. I have a hunch that my ggm's second husband's birthplace may help in my search. He was the father of her first child! At some time, she must have been where he was (no immaculate conception here!) and I suspect it was around London. She said she ran away from home when found out she was pregnant. He didn't come to her rescue but her first husband did down in Plymouth. How she got from London to be down in Plymouth is a mystery in itself. This first husband was from Yeovil! I'll keep on plugging on and wathing the List - I'm learning so much about the Italian community in UK - thanks to all listers. Diane -----Original Message----- From: Elaine Collins [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 1:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Anglo-Italian] Re: Ice Cream > In regards to my family, another researcher turned up the name EROLI / > Guiseppe, merchant marine and suggested this is probably my family, some of > the documentation supporting this theory looks like it could fit but it > belies the story gg'mother told about her family's background. Oh dear, > just what does one believe! In my experience, Diane, it's wise to take what gggrandmother said with large, heart-threatening, doses of salt! ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== Italian Research http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hello Daphne, many thanks for the tips - I've done a few searches on Ancestry.com and came up with several ARROTTI's, even downloaded a file or two. Unfortunately, none of the ancestors go back further than 1890's, way too late for my lot to have been in the US before travelling on to England. However, it does prove your point - that name ERROTTI could well have been changed to ARROTTI. An 1861 London census would be a good starting point, or so I thought, until someone suggested it would take me 2 years to search the fiche, since I don't know what area they may have lived in London. Would you mind giving the full title of the book & author you have suggested please? I'll try and lay may hands on a copy, which as you say, should give me some perspective. Many thanks, Diane -----Original Message----- From: Daphne Dashfield [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 11:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Anglo-Italian] Re: EROTTI/EROTY Hello Diane > The surname EROTTI / EROTY (possibly the English > variant) arrived in England 1858/59 and on ggrandmother's first marriage > certificate her father's occupation is listed as 'musician'. I have been > unable to find any variant of the name on any Census record. Have you tried starting with an 'A' instead of 'E'? E.g. it looks from Colpi's book as though the firm of Askey was actually Tedeschi (think how it sounds if you are an English clerk who doesn't know Italian spelling). My surname has 16 or so spellings and probably more yet to be discovered. See my signature below so you can see the types of variation. > London was > given as her birthplace but I have nothing more than that. Have you tried both parish and GRO records for the marriage and birth? An Italian priest may spell the name correctly. > Does your publication "TheItalian Factor..." say anything about Italian > migration around the late 1850's? Colpi's "The Italian Factor.." is well worth reading to understand what was happening in the 1850s and relating it to your own family. I read it with knowledge of my family's stories so may have a biased reading of the book. Italian migration in late 1850's was probably mainly from the Appenines (Tuscany and Emilia Romagna) esp. Borgo Val di Taro (Pr), Bardi (Pr). Poor, unskilled peasants: agricultural, labouring (eg paviors/asphalters), street entertainers (esp. barrel organ), street vendors, esp. ice-cream, chestnuts. There were also craftsmen from about 1800 (more specific details in the book and other occupations, areas), and some political refugees (mainly temporary) from other areas to London 1818-1860. > In regards to my family, another researcher turned up the name EROLI / > Guiseppe, merchant marine and suggested this is probably my family, some of > the documentation supporting this theory looks like it could fit but it > belies the story gg'mother told about her family's background. Oh dear, > just what does one believe! My family stories do fit the classic Appenine peasant profile, but we are also fairly long-lived which helps pass on the stories from grandfather to grandson more accurately. Also my gg grandfather took son(s) back to visit Italy making the stories much more worth telling their sons and nephews. There were also merchants and of course bankers from 12 or 1300. Also more recently from 1840 in the Clerkenwell community. Not so numerous as street musicians by late 1850s I suspect. Daphne Dashfield (Geradine) GHIRARDANI Variations: GERADINE, GHIRADANI, GEARDINI, GERARDINI, GHIREDANI, GHERARDINI, GHIRARDINI, GERADINI, JERIDINA, GERARDINE, GERARDANI, GEORDINI, JERIDI(E)NE, GHIRAND(I)ANI, GLARINI (1881 census transcription) ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== Inaugural Meeting of the Anglo-Italian Family History At the SOG Fair at 3pm For the venue address look at http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Norina, I have checked my FHL CD, for records in the Mantova area and have found the following. I think it would be worth asking to see at least the index for these. I also found a civil reg. for Suzzara, but date from 1806 to 1815 which I think would be to early. Hope this helps you Ruth Title Registri dello stato civile, 1714-1910 Authors Mantova (Mantova). Registri di popolazione (Main Author) Notes Microfilm dei registri originali nell'Archivio storico del comune, Mantova. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Testo in italiano e latino. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Include indici parziali. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Births, marriages, deaths, census records of Mantova and outlying communities. Includes records of Jewish population and foreigners in the city. Subjects Italy, Mantova - Civil registration Italy, Mantova - Census Italy, Mantova - Minorities ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norina Pauling" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 9:47 AM Subject: [Anglo-Italian] Prisoner of war records. > Does anyone know of any records for prisoners of war (WW11) in this country? > The Foreign Office pointedme in the direction of the PRO, but these seem to > be odd medical and general notes. Did nobody have a list of prisoners! My > father was put to work on a Bedfordshire Farm until sent back to Italy. I > know an official photo was taken with a prisoner number board, but > unfortunately the picture has been lost. He returned to England after the > war but was never naturalised. He was supposed to have been born in Suzzara, > Italy, but when I enquired, the only reference sent back was for a younger > brother,( there were three boys and a girl altogether). Any suggestions, > perhaps the registrar in Mantova mistook which person I was after, but I > don't know how to rectify that. > Norina > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > NEW One Name Study ORLANDO > All material gratefully received > [email protected] > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Richard, I have checked out the Family search web page and the onlt areas that this surname come up is France and Belgium. I would try finding a map for the years you mentioned to see if at that time the French were in the Northern part of Italy. If not then they must have definately come from France. Ruth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Marryatt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:53 PM Subject: [Anglo-Italian] Spelling > > I have been researching our family name for some time now, and I was > told by a cousin that we originated in Northern Italy, moved to France > and then on to Canada in 1752. My gg??Grandfather spelled his name > Mariette, or that was the spelling on the ship's list. In Canada it > got change to Marriette and it is now spelled Marryatt. His first name > was Etienne and the ships records [the Pearl] also says he originated in > Etoben Montbeliard France. This area of France is close to the Italian > border, so it is possible that he went to Italy then to England or > Holland then on to Canada. If the spelling of the name is not Italian, > then he must have been French. Any help would be most appreciated. > > Richard Marryatt > Alberta Canada > [email protected] > or web page > Http://www.Prairie-winds.com > > > ==== ANGLO-ITALIAN Mailing List ==== > Italian Research > http://www.dreamwater.net/anglersrest/Italian.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Hello Diane > The surname EROTTI / EROTY (possibly the English > variant) arrived in England 1858/59 and on ggrandmother's first marriage > certificate her father's occupation is listed as 'musician'. I have been > unable to find any variant of the name on any Census record. Have you tried starting with an 'A' instead of 'E'? E.g. it looks from Colpi's book as though the firm of Askey was actually Tedeschi (think how it sounds if you are an English clerk who doesn't know Italian spelling). My surname has 16 or so spellings and probably more yet to be discovered. See my signature below so you can see the types of variation. > London was > given as her birthplace but I have nothing more than that. Have you tried both parish and GRO records for the marriage and birth? An Italian priest may spell the name correctly. > Does your publication "TheItalian Factor..." say anything about Italian > migration around the late 1850's? Colpi's "The Italian Factor.." is well worth reading to understand what was happening in the 1850s and relating it to your own family. I read it with knowledge of my family's stories so may have a biased reading of the book. Italian migration in late 1850's was probably mainly from the Appenines (Tuscany and Emilia Romagna) esp. Borgo Val di Taro (Pr), Bardi (Pr). Poor, unskilled peasants: agricultural, labouring (eg paviors/asphalters), street entertainers (esp. barrel organ), street vendors, esp. ice-cream, chestnuts. There were also craftsmen from about 1800 (more specific details in the book and other occupations, areas), and some political refugees (mainly temporary) from other areas to London 1818-1860. > In regards to my family, another researcher turned up the name EROLI / > Guiseppe, merchant marine and suggested this is probably my family, some of > the documentation supporting this theory looks like it could fit but it > belies the story gg'mother told about her family's background. Oh dear, > just what does one believe! My family stories do fit the classic Appenine peasant profile, but we are also fairly long-lived which helps pass on the stories from grandfather to grandson more accurately. Also my gg grandfather took son(s) back to visit Italy making the stories much more worth telling their sons and nephews. There were also merchants and of course bankers from 12 or 1300. Also more recently from 1840 in the Clerkenwell community. Not so numerous as street musicians by late 1850s I suspect. Daphne Dashfield (Geradine) GHIRARDANI Variations: GERADINE, GHIRADANI, GEARDINI, GERARDINI, GHIREDANI, GHERARDINI, GHIRARDINI, GERADINI, JERIDINA, GERARDINE, GERARDANI, GEORDINI, JERIDI(E)NE, GHIRAND(I)ANI, GLARINI (1881 census transcription)