Dear Barb, no need to apologize, i expected it and i am not offended. Your whole premise is faulty to begin with. The "long ago insurrection" talk and belief instilled by our governments education is why we cannot and will not give up! You need to do some serious studying on the subject as you are dead wrong! I suggest just two books to start - "When in The Course of Human Events", Arguing the Case for Southern Secession by Charles Adams. From the back cover: "The Civil War violently destroyed the decentralized federal system of the Founders and opened away for the vast centralized empire of today. To legitimate this revolutionary change, Americans have been taught that secesion was unconstitution, that the South seceded to protect slavery, and that the North invaded to emancipate slaves. Charles Adams a NORTHERN historian, argues persuasively that these propositions are false. The first step in healing the fractural historical memory imposed on all Americans by the Civil War is to face the hard truths that Adams brings into focus." Charles Adams is the world's leading scholar on the history of taxation. (220 hardback pages cost abt $20) "War for What? by Francis W. Springer . On the back cover he wrote: "For every slave the slave traders sold the South more than ten were sold to Brazil, Cuba and the West Indies. Why is all the hatred over slavery directed at the South?" Francis Woodend Springer b 1899 Washington, DC, traces his ancestor back to 1600 in MA. He d. 1991 in on his retirement farm in Virginia. He was raised in NYC, NY, a graduate of Columbia and president of the Malvern NY school board. He lived and worked in the North all this life. (this is paperback for 9.95) You can be both an American an a Confederate Southern American - after all we fought to make this country independent and we wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Our stake in American is very great indeed. josie At 09:52 PM 11/7/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, >Hope Josie and Carolyn don't mind my jumping in here a bit. I'm not sure >whether I'm a Southerner or a Northerner since I'm in a "border state". >I am sure that I am an American. I respect the opinions of Southerners >who, several generations after the Civil War ended, are still hurting for >their region and its losses from that war. I haven't personally noted >any Southern names being removed from structures, streets, bridges, etc. >but it may just be that in my region they are not. I do not favor >censoring books, etc, except in extreme cases, ie. child porn. So I am >sorry that "Song of the South" is not available. The reason for its >banning (?) is that it perpetuates the myth of the "happy slave" and the >myth of "Uncle Tom" as created in Mrs. Stowes's "Uncle Tom's Cabin". >Again, I don't agree with its banning, as I do not approve of censorship >in general except as noted above. > >I do have ancestors who were both slave owners and a somewhat famous >slave trader. >I honor my ancestors because I believe that is the honorable thing to do. > I do not, and refused to teach my son, that everything they did was >honorable. Owning and selling slaves was not honorable. The extent of >the horror of that institution are today minimized. I still hear "Dixie" >being played. It's part of our history. It makes me feel good. I know >it was used during the Civil War but it is not a bad song. I do take >exception to flying a flag in America which flew over an insurrection >against this country, however honorable the people and the cause were. >In the Civil War, we were either Yankee or Confederate (or Quaker). >Since we live in and enjoy the benefits of >the United States, how can we support a long ago insurrection against our >country? We are all Americans now, and if there was ever a time when >Americans needed to be united, it is now. I think the time is fast >coming when we have to make a solid choice. We are Yankee or Confederate >or American. I choose to be an American and I honor our flag. Dear >friends and listmembers, I pray I do not offend anyone. > >I love the South. I do consider myself more Southern than Northern. The >beauty and the glory of the South is not gone and will not die. Now, >however, it is not just "the South", it is the Southern part of the >United States. >I say God Bless the South, the North, and may God Bless America. > >If anyone wants to...strongly disagree with me...please send it to >keenebj@juno.com unless you think the list will be interested. >Thanks for listening. > >Barb T > > >============================== >Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp >Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! Josephine Lindsay Bass Confederate Southern American 216 Beach Park Lane Cape Canaveral, FL 32920 321-868-1771 My Southern Family, http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~mysouthernfamily/

Dear Cousins, I must apologize to you for the messages over the last several days. Today I have settled with my landlord, and my brain is working better. I feel that folkart, folklore, and follkways are intimately connected to our historical pursuits. I love Wendell Berry's poetry, and as I said, admire him for his convictions. His words soothe my soul, and I believe that fostering community requires passing on American writers, (and artists) their connection to their own particular landscape, and their connection to our ancestors' homelands and landscapes. I had hoped that you too might find connection in this type of exchance, and in turn perhaps pass on your own favorites and their particular insights and contributions about our homelands. I had hoped these exchanges would stimulate discussion and communication and connection. I still hope so. I found "Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways," disappointing in the ways I mentioned, but I feel, especially for those who were not with us, it is one of those works which certainly bears discussion again, as we did little more than simply mention it's implications for the ancestral paths we are pursuing on the website. We still have not thoroughly pursued discussion of that book's thesis about the other British folkways. However, I do not intend for supplementary discussions via our list to become wrangling over rights and wrongs committed over the four hundred years of our history, and most particularly I do not intend to participate in a continual wrangling over and re-waging of the Civil War. There is simply no right and wrong over the Civil War. It was an American war. It cost over 600,000 American lives, more than all the casualities of all other wars combined, and is the single most devastating event in our national history. What was wrong in our country was Slavery. Slavery is the most shameful sin of our national history. There is no "side" in it. There is nothing "right" in it. It is a blight on the American soul, and there will never be anything that can be argued over that. Nothing. In fact, that blight is evident in the messages that have evolved from this. The Civil War is a part of our National History. Our ancestors fought and died, North and South. Their blood was red, whether they wore blue or gray uniforms. The great PBS program Ric Burns created several years ago was historically accurate, and was an excellent summary of the devastating toll it has taken on our National spirit. And, in the South, as William Faulkner put it so well, "The past is not dead. It's not even past ... " Faulkner, like other regional artists, renders a historically accurate view of the South via in his personal medium (fiction) of what I feel are the most valuable insights, nuances and interpretations of the South, and the ongoing turmoil and racial problems that still exist 150 years after the fateful confrontations of North and South. One website states: "For Faulkner, every moment of existence is pressured almost to suffocation by all that has come before; the past is not past--it's present. 'There is no such thing as was,' Faulkner once said, '--only is.'" My scholarly pursuit is American Studies, which I have chosen to interpret through genealogy and history. We cannot come to an interpretation of our genealogy and history without understanding the nuances of the lives of our people, and art and literature are a huge part of this. We form, and take away our own opinion and interpretion through all of these things. The better we understand, the better our means of finding resources needed. These are not always contained in expected places. The key to my Grandpa Smith's lost patrimony lay in his father's relatives with other names, and even more distant locales than any of us could have envisioned. It is necessary to understand their motivations. Nothing is debated, however, let alone anything resolved or resources gained, by rendering our personal opinions of let's say, Andrew Jackson vis a vis Abraham Lincoln. I said I found Jackson less than admirable because he defied the Supreme Court's ruling on Indian rights to their land. The Supreme Court found for the Indians; Jackson had them collected like animals and marched off along the Trail of Tears. His disregard of the Supreme Court's ruling was stated: "They've made their ruling, now let them try and enforce it." I believe Jackson's (and his land grabbing cohorts) treatment of the Indians is yet another stain on our National soul. I don't see any logical or debatable comparison between his character or his presidency with Abraham Lincoln's. However, there is a great deal to be learned about the migrations of our ancestors by understanding what was churning in the background prior to those migrations. I am a great believer in stimulating interesting historical discussion. I apologize that this has not happened within this circumstance, and I am especially sorry that I have been unable to direct that discussion better. I hope we can get back on track with helping one another toward better understanding of our ancestors and their times, in order to track and find our missing links. With love, Your Cousin, Carolyn Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com ========================================= --- Visit American Crossroads --- http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads

Hi, Hope Josie and Carolyn don't mind my jumping in here a bit. I'm not sure whether I'm a Southerner or a Northerner since I'm in a "border state". I am sure that I am an American. I respect the opinions of Southerners who, several generations after the Civil War ended, are still hurting for their region and its losses from that war. I haven't personally noted any Southern names being removed from structures, streets, bridges, etc. but it may just be that in my region they are not. I do not favor censoring books, etc, except in extreme cases, ie. child porn. So I am sorry that "Song of the South" is not available. The reason for its banning (?) is that it perpetuates the myth of the "happy slave" and the myth of "Uncle Tom" as created in Mrs. Stowes's "Uncle Tom's Cabin". Again, I don't agree with its banning, as I do not approve of censorship in general except as noted above. I do have ancestors who were both slave owners and a somewhat famous slave trader. I honor my ancestors because I believe that is the honorable thing to do. I do not, and refused to teach my son, that everything they did was honorable. Owning and selling slaves was not honorable. The extent of the horror of that institution are today minimized. I still hear "Dixie" being played. It's part of our history. It makes me feel good. I know it was used during the Civil War but it is not a bad song. I do take exception to flying a flag in America which flew over an insurrection against this country, however honorable the people and the cause were. In the Civil War, we were either Yankee or Confederate (or Quaker). Since we live in and enjoy the benefits of the United States, how can we support a long ago insurrection against our country? We are all Americans now, and if there was ever a time when Americans needed to be united, it is now. I think the time is fast coming when we have to make a solid choice. We are Yankee or Confederate or American. I choose to be an American and I honor our flag. Dear friends and listmembers, I pray I do not offend anyone. I love the South. I do consider myself more Southern than Northern. The beauty and the glory of the South is not gone and will not die. Now, however, it is not just "the South", it is the Southern part of the United States. I say God Bless the South, the North, and may God Bless America. If anyone wants to...strongly disagree with me...please send it to keenebj@juno.com unless you think the list will be interested. Thanks for listening. Barb T

Carolyn McDaniel, sometimes you write stuff and i wonder what you are thinking! "If we lose touch with our heritage, or are deprived of it, we lose what is most meaningful to the lifelong process of creating our identity/soul, and thereby lose contact with what is most integral to our own individual lives. Native Americans and African Americans have suffered this kind of loss through the actions of our ancestors." please explain what you mean above. i have lots of ancestors with no surname, (destroyed by Indian Wars, & Revolution) i have lots of ancestors who moved across this country losing touch with their roots, and handed down sketchy info from their memories. I have lots of Southern ancestors whose homes, property, livelihood, way of life and culture were totally destroyed by Lincoln's War and Union Army and occupation. (also Kentucky & Maryland & Missouri). I have seen my lifetime the destruction by pc activist thru media hype destroying the playing of songs such as, "Dixie", the banning of movies "Song of The South" and as we speak in the South the destruction of the Confederate Flag, Southern Street names, Southern school names, Southern names of bridges. As we speak Dumbing down and propagandizing our Southern children in schools, and media by teaching them to dislike and abhor their ancestors. (I am sure you don't want to be a part of this). Tallahassee, Florida in their Spring parade had honored Andrew Jackson since its beginning, but after a few complaints from minorities the ditched him. Andrew Jackson, the Hero of the War of 1812, the one man so responsible for our finally winning our independence from Britain, the only man who could gather up all the diverse men of this region, of the original Southern frontier to his side to march and fight the Battle of New Orleans. Anyone who was anybody, everyone of any value was proud to fight by his side. The next year they banned the Sons of the Confederate Veterans from marching in the parade. Please tell me why you think only African Americans and American Indians have suffered from this cultural genocide. BTW there are still blacks who know and remain loyal to their Southern heritage and Indian Natives as well. josie At 06:17 PM 11/6/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Dear Friend W W, and Cousins, > I presented Wendell Berry's biography and writings because I >believe they are inspiring and link us to distant homelands of our >ancestors, particularly mine. I have never felt like emulating his >personal choices to retain the privy, nor the lifestyle of those who >lived in the early 1800's in Henry County, KY. My ancestors rode on; >his didn't. It was a choice then, as now. > What I do love is Wendell Berry's refusal to bend to >technology, even though I do not. Because my work is in an area >which is enhanced by technology, i.e., computer and internet usage >in the research field, I love and appreciate my computer! I would >never have traced the Smiths in Henry county (who founded Smithfield) >had I not had such technology. Wendell Berry's life is different, and >I admire its difference even though I do not embrace the land, its >peace >and comfort, in the manner he does. We each have to find our own >path, which I think is what Mr. Berry has done with great eloquence, >as I said, in his work and in his life. I believe that is >integrity -- knowing >oneself and remaining true to that core of self-knowledge. I suggest >also, Dear Friend WW, that is how you've also lived your life, from >what I've come to know about you. > In addition to greatly admiring Mr. Berry's writing, I find >his insistence on purity of purpose admirable, >just as I admire the Quakers and Bretheren who simply refuse to >participate in war and war-making. Although I do not carry my >pacificism to the same extreme edges that they do, I respect their >views. However, I think I am more like the "Fighting Quakers," in the >Revolutionary War! One of of those fighting was Daniel Pennington, a >life-long Quaker, whose family came to Philadelphia in the early >1700's. > After years of persecution for their pacifistic views on both >sides of the Atlantic, the Quakers were once again intensely tormented >for holding to their beliefs during the Revolutionary War period. As >you may remember, some were hauled out of their beautiful Philadelphia >homes (by their neighbors) and interred near Winchester, Virginia. >One of these was another Quaker, Edward Pennington, who was not of the >same family as Daniel Pennington. (At least on this side of the >Atlantic.) Our Cousin, Jim of Connecticut, descends from this family. >Our >Cousins Marilyn and Mary are also Quaker descendants. > Two of the Philadelphia Quakers died in Virginia, never seeing >their families and homes again. General Washington, when asked about >more reprisals against the Quakers, instructed: "Leave them alone. >They >do nothing to help us, but they do nothing to help our enemies >either." > After he was released, Edward Pennington returned to >Philadelphia and >berated the council in the most scathing, although gentlemanly terms, >asking how those who had stood beside him in those chambers could have >behaved toward him as they did. They had lost their integrity in >their patriotic fervor. > We have many lessons to learn from history, as well as from >our fellow human beings, whatever their time frame. The trick I >think, is to learn where our own integrity lies, rather than >disputing the motives of others. Writers, and artists of every >variety paint a view of the world that is their own unique >interpretation. Through seeing, reading, and assessing -- and yes, >questioning! -- >the varied interpretations of others, we come to greater clarity about >our own >moral core, even if it differs from theirs. Therefore, WW, your >message is greatly appreciated. I had hoped to stir a debate with >this! Everybody benefits by expressing our views. We simply need >to remember to attack ideas, not persons! (You did not do this, and I >appreciate that, too.) > One thing we definitely know: If we lose touch with our >heritage, or are deprived of it, we lose what is most meaningful to >the lifelong process of creating our identity/soul, and thereby lose >contact with what is most integral to our own individual lives. >Native Americans and African Americans have suffered this kind of loss >through the actions of our ancestors. In our own generation (mine, at >least!) we have interred (Japanese) American citizens, just as the >Quakers and Native Americans were persecuted and interred in the past. >Franklin Roosevelt, whom I believe was among our most outstanding >Presidents, greatly erred in interring Japanese American citizens. >Roosevelt (and the rest of the world) also erred in not recognizing >the evil that became known as the Holocaust. We are in another >hideously critical time in our national life, which once again will >test our >ideals, and our integrity. We need to be vigilant against foreign >attack, as well maintaining our vigilance about who we are as >individuals and as a nation. Discussions like these help put things >in perspective. > >Love, Your Cousin, Carolyn >Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com >========================================= >--- Visit American Crossroads --- >http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads > > > > > > > >============================== >Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history >learning and how-to articles on the Internet. >http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library Josephine Lindsay Bass Confederate Southern American 216 Beach Park Lane Cape Canaveral, FL 32920 321-868-1771 My Southern Family, http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~mysouthernfamily/

Dear Cousins, Thank you so much for your thoughtful commentary. No, Barb, no one is offended! Yours are always considerate opinion. Richelle, the way I see those special groups is as a means to re-establish heritage that has been lost. In the case of Black people, there has been the need to re-learn about African traditions, in addition to re-connecting to one another in the face of extreme persecution. These groups are set up to re-affirm their unique experience and survive it. The same can be said for Indian peoples. And Josie, we have had some discussions of David Hackett Fischer's "Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways," prior to your coming to us. The way I see Fischer's premise is that he ignores the the diverse contribution of the backcountry. The backcountry people (Swedes, Indians, Finns, Central Europeans, and yes, even Blacks, were living together in the Delaware River Vally in the 1600's. A very long time before the migrations into Virginia and the south and west, and a really long time before Andrew Jackson. And frankly, I regard Andrew Jackson a very hateful product indeed. It seems to me he was far more interested in impowering well positioned friends to take Indian lands for speculation than he was in doing anything for his diverse constituents. Jackson is not a person I find admirable. He totally ignored the Supreme Court's ruling about the Indians' rights, which says to me that he didn't truly value our Democratic system. The backcountry movement is what I most try to present on American Crossroads. Fischer either ignores or glosses over the backcountry's diversity as he tries to stick to his "British Folkways." And Fisher doesn't develop any information of his own. He borrows copious amounts of other historians' studies and works plops it in his book, and re-interprets it to fit his thesis. The studies we are doing RIGHT NOW at American Crossroads are ORIGINAL. Your own families confirm its validity. The Holston River in SW Virginia was named for one of those Swedish guys! John Hanse Steelman, Abraham Pennington's friend, was either Swedish or Danish, and many many Cecil County and Philadelphia Perimeter names and history confirm the diverse nature of this culture that was in existance long before Quakers or any other British settlement. Christopher Gist's son Nathanial was the father of Sequoah, the famed Cherokee who developed an alphabet which gave the Cherokees a written language. Then we have the Melungeons! We are rediscovering now that the American values that unite us are far stronger and deeper than our differences. Whatever was our long ago identity has merged into what we have become now. A Japanese American I met last year was born in one of the camps where his family had been interred during WWII. He was a recipient of a monetary attempt the US government made to recompense the internees. The money wasn't important. He said, "What a country this is! A country that can make a mistake and the President of the United States will stand up and admit it, and say the country is sorry! Now THAT is a COUNTRY!" Love, Your Cousin, Carolyn

Dear Friend W W, and Cousins, I presented Wendell Berry's biography and writings because I believe they are inspiring and link us to distant homelands of our ancestors, particularly mine. I have never felt like emulating his personal choices to retain the privy, nor the lifestyle of those who lived in the early 1800's in Henry County, KY. My ancestors rode on; his didn't. It was a choice then, as now. What I do love is Wendell Berry's refusal to bend to technology, even though I do not. Because my work is in an area which is enhanced by technology, i.e., computer and internet usage in the research field, I love and appreciate my computer! I would never have traced the Smiths in Henry county (who founded Smithfield) had I not had such technology. Wendell Berry's life is different, and I admire its difference even though I do not embrace the land, its peace and comfort, in the manner he does. We each have to find our own path, which I think is what Mr. Berry has done with great eloquence, as I said, in his work and in his life. I believe that is integrity -- knowing oneself and remaining true to that core of self-knowledge. I suggest also, Dear Friend WW, that is how you've also lived your life, from what I've come to know about you. In addition to greatly admiring Mr. Berry's writing, I find his insistence on purity of purpose admirable, just as I admire the Quakers and Bretheren who simply refuse to participate in war and war-making. Although I do not carry my pacificism to the same extreme edges that they do, I respect their views. However, I think I am more like the "Fighting Quakers," in the Revolutionary War! One of of those fighting was Daniel Pennington, a life-long Quaker, whose family came to Philadelphia in the early 1700's. After years of persecution for their pacifistic views on both sides of the Atlantic, the Quakers were once again intensely tormented for holding to their beliefs during the Revolutionary War period. As you may remember, some were hauled out of their beautiful Philadelphia homes (by their neighbors) and interred near Winchester, Virginia. One of these was another Quaker, Edward Pennington, who was not of the same family as Daniel Pennington. (At least on this side of the Atlantic.) Our Cousin, Jim of Connecticut, descends from this family. Our Cousins Marilyn and Mary are also Quaker descendants. Two of the Philadelphia Quakers died in Virginia, never seeing their families and homes again. General Washington, when asked about more reprisals against the Quakers, instructed: "Leave them alone. They do nothing to help us, but they do nothing to help our enemies either." After he was released, Edward Pennington returned to Philadelphia and berated the council in the most scathing, although gentlemanly terms, asking how those who had stood beside him in those chambers could have behaved toward him as they did. They had lost their integrity in their patriotic fervor. We have many lessons to learn from history, as well as from our fellow human beings, whatever their time frame. The trick I think, is to learn where our own integrity lies, rather than disputing the motives of others. Writers, and artists of every variety paint a view of the world that is their own unique interpretation. Through seeing, reading, and assessing -- and yes, questioning! -- the varied interpretations of others, we come to greater clarity about our own moral core, even if it differs from theirs. Therefore, WW, your message is greatly appreciated. I had hoped to stir a debate with this! Everybody benefits by expressing our views. We simply need to remember to attack ideas, not persons! (You did not do this, and I appreciate that, too.) One thing we definitely know: If we lose touch with our heritage, or are deprived of it, we lose what is most meaningful to the lifelong process of creating our identity/soul, and thereby lose contact with what is most integral to our own individual lives. Native Americans and African Americans have suffered this kind of loss through the actions of our ancestors. In our own generation (mine, at least!) we have interred (Japanese) American citizens, just as the Quakers and Native Americans were persecuted and interred in the past. Franklin Roosevelt, whom I believe was among our most outstanding Presidents, greatly erred in interring Japanese American citizens. Roosevelt (and the rest of the world) also erred in not recognizing the evil that became known as the Holocaust. We are in another hideously critical time in our national life, which once again will test our ideals, and our integrity. We need to be vigilant against foreign attack, as well maintaining our vigilance about who we are as individuals and as a nation. Discussions like these help put things in perspective. Love, Your Cousin, Carolyn Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com ========================================= --- Visit American Crossroads --- http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads

Dear Cousins, If you are not familiar with the life and writing of Wendell Berry, you are missing a human phenomenon, a man who gives the world lessons in wisdom and beauty, and lives by what he propounds. A very rare thing. Mr. Berry lives in Henry County, KY, the homeland of his ancestors, and mine. Unfortunately, I've never been to Henry County, nor have I met Mr. Berry, although I regard him with the reverence due a national treasure. You can find a bit of biography about him at the following site: http://www.english.eku.edu/SERVICES/KYLIT/BERRY.HTM And more links to his works and philosophies: http://www.alteich.com/links/berry.htm Here is one of his poems I especially like, as contained on the "Thoughts Worth Thinking Page" http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/berry/berry.html The Peace of Wild Things When despair grows in me and I wake in the middle of the night at the least sound in fear of what my life and my children's lives may be, I go and lie down where the wood drake rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds. I come into the peace of wild things who do not tax their lives with forethought of grief. I come into the presence of still water. And I feel above me the day-blind stars waiting for their light. For a time I rest in the grace of the world, and am free. My Smith, Watts, Markham etc. family had connection to the Berry family, and when they rode on to Missouri, lived in Cass, Johnson, Jackson, and Calloway Counties. Love, Your Cousin, Carolyn Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com ========================================= --- Visit American Crossroads --- http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads

Thanks Barb! This is just what is needed here, and goes on to demonstrate the circles and cycles! The Pennington links I didn't know about are the links you mention to the Parks, who are linked to the Smiths. The Parks and Smiths came down from the Delaware River Valley. In my family they are found in Hanover county, VA. They are also in the Virginia Southside, (Lunenburg and Pittsylvania) then (some) into SW Virginia, then in Henry County, KY. Then to Missouri. There are also Waddy/Woody, Strother, and Stowers (Russell and Markham connection first in Montgomery County, VA.) And on and on. I'm trying to get it all up at the website. Many of the Southside Pennington names are almost exactly like the Pennington names in Cecil County -- Robert, John, and Samuel for example. The McDaniels are also in the Southside. And Baltimore County families associated with my Penningtons -- Choates, for example, moved very early to Lunenberg County in the Southside. Love, Your Cousin, Carolyn Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com ========================================= --- Visit American Crossroads --- http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads

Dear Cousins, In trying to be briefer on the NW/SW Perimeter transition to TN and KY than it is humanly possible for me to be :-) I neglected to include one of the best internet sources: "A History of the Middle New River Settlements and Contiguous Territory" By David E. Johnson (1906) which has been put on the internet via the Kinyon Digital Library http://www.kinyon.com/westvirginia/midnewriver/chapter1.htm There's something for everybody here. My Russells, Stowers (I believe referred to in some of my KY Smith and Russell records as "Starrs,") are here, and many clues to kinship and relationship. Love, Your Cousin, Carolyn Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com ========================================= --- Visit American Crossroads --- http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads

Dear Cousins, One of the things that remained constant within the migrating peoples, regardless of their locality and centuries was their reliance upon water and waterways.The earliest forays were not made by settlers, but by frontiersmen -- in the middle colonies -- in the form of Christopher Gist, Abraham Pennington and Daniel Boone, who initially were Indian/fur traders. Christopher Gist and Daniel Boone were also surveyors. As land grants were made available to the Land Companies and a few Individuals, the surveyors went in and laid out the tracts. Only then could masses of people begin migrating and settling. There were very few roads, and most of these were deer and Indian paths, barely suitable for men ahorseback. Therefore, the initial settlements had halted along the coastal waterways, and moving inland, along the major rivers. The settlers had to travel by river, or along "wagon roads," which could bear the heavier loads for commerce and migration. These massive wagons were manufactured at Conestoga in Lancaster, PA and became the means of earliest migrations. Later migrations to the Pacific could not use Conestoga wagons, despite popular cinematic productions to the contrary! They were too heavy. In Pennsylvania, the Susquehanna was the first great inland aorta for migration. Then, later, at the extreme westward frontier in Pennsylvania, it was the massive watershed and waterway formed the Ohio, the Allegheny and the Monongahela River, conjoining at what is now Pittsburgh (fans will understand the significance of Three Rivers Stadium!) This was Christopher Gist's playground, after he left Baltimore County, Maryland. Here he guided the young George Washington on a spying venture deep into enemy territory just prior to the French and Indian War. (The Seven Years War.) Here Washington outlined the plans for the frontier forts that would be built as a result of this adventure, and actually oversaw the building of Ft. Necessity. http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gwhtml/gwhome.html Here Gist scouted for the British/American interests during the war; here Washington marched with General Braddock to fatal destiny, and here the young Daniel Boone was a wagonner, perhaps listening to Gist spin tales around a campfire about the grandeur of the Ohio River country, and dark and bloody grounds. The first National Road (begun after the War of 1812) ran from Baltimore to Ohio, and followed these earliest, most historic venturers. http://www.nps.gov/fone/natlroad.htm The Potomac and the Mongahela were the next principal waterways to facilitate migration and settlement. Maryland people were joined by Pennsylvanians and others (NY, NJ, DE) from the Delaware River Valley along Virginia River tributeries. The Shenandoah River became the focus of these migrations. Settlement took place along the Opequan near Winchester, (first called Fredericktown) which became a Great Crossroads locale along the Great Wagon Road, which ran from Philadelphia into the Carolinas. Two large settlements were made near Winchester: Sherrando (Shenandoah) and Hopewell. Hopewell was geared to Quakers and Sherrando was more about All Others! Another Pennsylvanian, Jacob Stover led a group of Germans (Deutsch) into the area. http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads/Migrations/virginia.ht ml America was an agrarian society even into the 20th century. As people moved into frontier areas, waterways were used not just for transportation and commerce, but as the means for a family's successful settlement and survival. We are fortunate that both the Virginia and Kentucky patents are available online. That most wonderful of all sites, the Library of Virginia http://image.vtls.com/collections/LO.html has put copies of the patents online, and I access Kentucky patents through Ancestry.com. You can then put these into watercourse databases and examine who was upstream and downstream from your ancestor, and thereby determine their kith and kin communities. http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads/Migrations/virginia.ht ml The Watts were first in Orange county (from which Frederick county was formed). Then were also in Culpepper and Bedford Counties, and are found in the tax records in Jeffrey Weaver's New River Valley Notes. (along with Finwinkles, i.e., Van Winkles. The migrating Markhams (Marcam, Marcum) were in Stafford county, while very early ones (although probably related at some point) were in Henrico, Chesterfield, and Prince Edward. My Markhams seem to have removed from Prince Edward to that portion of Montgomery County which became Giles county. They are on the 1806 Tax list (NRVN http://www.ls.net/~newriver/nrv.htm sold land, also in 1806, (John and Sarah Markham to Farley) and by 1808 are found in Wayne County, KY. By 1810 the marriage of Thomas Watts and Eady Markham, daughter of John, took place. In 1820 John Watts Sr., and Jr. was in Overton County, TN from which Fentress was carved. Other Watts kinship included the Yorks and Eatons. Also in the area, Mark Twains' family, and the Abraham Lincoln's family. They lived along the Obed, Obey River, which ran out of Kentucky and into Tennessee. There are lots of nice waterways and watershed sites. Because of the family names and locales, one I thought was interesting is: http://www.dalehollow-lake.net/html/body_cumberriv.html This is quite a bit for one gulp. I'm still trying to get the additions to the website up. One will be the Potomac Perimeter, one will be added to the NW SW Perimeter pages. My landlord trial is Wednesday! Love, Your Cousin, Carolyn Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com ========================================= --- Visit American Crossroads --- http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads

. Dear Cousins, Our Cousin W Woodson couldn't get that TN map site to work, and when I tried it, I couldn't get that link to work either. It is puzzling, when I copied it straight off the site. Welll, I just figured some of it out. I thought it was TN when it was Michigan! When all else fails, slice off the ending of an address, everything beyond the slash: http://www.livgenmi.com/ Then you can get to the site's main page. These are from an 1895 Atlas, not the earlier ones that Fred Smoot has at the TN Genweb site: Here are the TN MAPS! http://www.tngenweb.org/ Go to the TN resource page and click on their: http://www.tngenweb.org/ View Historic Tennessee Maps http://www.tngenweb.org/tnlinks.htm#maps Thomas Bradford 1835 Atlas. http://www.tngenweb.org/maps/bradford.htm Sorry. The Michigan site has all the states and counties, and is a great site. Then TN map site gives maps up and down the Eastern seaboard, as well as the NW SW perimeter things I was referring to. Love, Your Cousin, Carolyn Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com ========================================= --- Visit American Crossroads --- http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads

Hi Carolyn, Thanks for the info. My Grandfather was named for his Grandfather, Arad Pennington, but with Grandpa the spelling ended up being Arid. Most of that part of the family could not read or write so it got spelled in very creative ways. I have done a lot of research on this name and find that it is a Biblical name. There is a King Arad in the Bible. I have a theory that my Arad Pennington was named for Arad Perkins in Ashe Co.NC. I have several reasons to think this may be true. Arad Perkins, btw, married Polly Pennington, and is generally believed to be the son of Timothy Perkins. Also, btw, I have another theory that Arad Perkins may have been named after Arad Parks, however this is completely speculation. My Mom believed her Dad's name was derived from Aaron. Wells Pennington and Daniel Strunk migrated to Whitley Co.KY by 1820 and Wells moved on to Pulaski and Wayne Counties, KY. The brother of Arad Perkins, Jabez Perkins, also migrated to Whitley Co.KY, and if my memory is correct, he lived out his life there. This is all in the same time frame. You're right, the name has been helpful but I still can't prove that Wells Pennington was Arad's father, although I think I'm the only one who has any doubts. I just wonder why Arad named his oldest son, Samuel, and lived next door to a Samuel Pennington on the 1860 Census of Russell Co.KY. Thanks again for the interesting discussion. I enjoyed it very much. BarbT

Dear Cousins, I am still engaged in the wars -- not the Taliban, but the Landlord Wars. It was almost a successful campaign, but when I examined the fine print, not all all the t's were crossed, and none of the the i's were dotted, and the compensation dangling above my hot and oh (!) so needful fist turned out to be darn near Bupkas! So, gotta watch the bottom line when dealing with lawyers. However, whatever the outcome, I will be moving back to my homeland in Eastern Oregon, (at least for awhile) where my Oregon pioneer ancesters first began settling in the 1850's. One of the greatest influences on my genealogy and history research methodology was the association of the Van Winkle family with my Watts family. I now believe this goes back to pre-1700. My mother's paternal grandfather, George Strather Smith was killed in Eastern Oregon's Blue Mountains during the Bannack War of 1878, the last major war of the Northwest. Both Grandpa Smith's father, George Strather Smith. Sr., and his mother, Florence Josephine Watts came to Oregon from the western Missouri area of Jackson, Johnson and Cass Counties, which are along the Mississippi River, the same area which the many wagon trains used as a jump off area to make the journey across the plains. As I began learning about all the families who came here with my families, I found they had been connected for a very long time before their pioneer migrations began. The Watts came to Oregon in the 1850's; the Van Winkles in the 1860's; and George Smith, Sr., in the 1870's. My grandfather was born posthumously in 1879, and as was prescribed by the circumstances and times, his bereaved and bereft mother remarried in 1880, to William "Sam" Grant. Because of the nature of my Great-Grandfather's death, his ubiquitious surname, and the lack of information about his family (Grandpa was raised believing Sam Grant was his father,) the research on the family has been very difficult. I began my search in 1969, especially hoping I would be able to find Grandpa's Smith's elusive ancestry. At that time, Grandpa was 90 years old, and as fate would have it, died a scant two years after I began and still knew almost nothing of the Smith's. Instead of finding Grandpa's ancestry, I am writing it for my Mother's 90th birthday, which was yesterday. It is not down to where all the i's are dotted and the t's all crossed, but it is very wonderful for me to be able to tell Mom that I'm certain I've determined the origins of her Smith family. Because of the Smith research, and its dependence on associated families, I've learned to apply the principles of that 32 year search to my other families and also to pass on what I've found to you. This is the heart of the American Crossroads community. We are all related in this way, either by locality or blood! We truly are a United country. One of our cousins, Mary in Arizona has Penningtons (my father's ancestry) and Carters (my mother's ancestry,) and the name Ephraim VanWinkle Coffee/Coffey. In my packing up and regrouping, I've just come across a copy of a land patent for Abraham Van Winkle, in Wayne County, KY (where my Watts and Markham families lived, (also in IL, and MO, as well as Fentress County, TN) and additionally a very nice local history for Ransom Newton Van Winkle, detailing his Van Winkle history to the early Dutch settlement of NY. (You will have to copy and paste this address, as it is two lines.) http://www.ukans.edu/carrie/kancoll/books/cutler/ atchison/atchison-co-p37.html From these valuable late 19th century biographies of cousins of your ancestors, you can learn a great deal about your own ancestors. Remember the KY genweb has an extremely good biographies collection, as we've found with the Sizemores and Penningtons (and others.) Next, applying the Crossroads concepts, I started poking around Morgan, Overton, and Fentress County, TN which lie in proximity to the Wayne County, KY border. There are both Pembertons and Penningtons in Wayne County, and it is my contention that they are likely ALL Penningtons. Next, I believe that I found some interesting clues for our Cousin Barb T. whose ancestor bore the unlikely name of Arrod(!) -- a distinctive name the rest of us pray for, and we end up with John or Bill! Barb's family is up the crick, through the holler, and cross the mountain in Pulaski County, KY. However, I have surmised that Arrod was given an ancestor's surname. BUT, what is the origin of this Unlikely Surname? I think it could have been Arrant originally, or likely some other similar Dutch surname, like the Van Winkles and Alleys. Alley Watt's birthdate is my Revolutionary War John Watts ancestor's prayer book. And the Alleys are also found in NY, NJ and later in SW Virginia with the Smith, Watts and Markhams. Barb, they're also with John Watts (Sr. and Jr.) in Fentress county aplenty, along with Allrods. Toss in some Burtons and we have come full circle! The TN genweb has the most beautiful maps available at their website. These show clearly the proximities and confusing localities that we have to cope with in SW Virginia, NW North Carolina, and Tennessee. Have a look, and keep scrolling down to find whatever state you want: http://www.livgenmi.com/1895 I will be putting up some of this at the website, (I hope today): http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads/Tenn/fent.html Love, Your Cousin, Carolyn Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com ========================================= --- Visit American Crossroads --- http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads

In a message dated 10/22/01 6:05:16 AM US Mountain Standard Time, AMXROADS-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: << He has also added a local history published originally in 1900, "Foot Prints on the Sands of Time: A History of Southwestern Virginia and Northwestern North Carolina," by Dr. A. B. Cox, originally published by The Star Pub. Co. Print, Sparta, N.C. http://www.ls.net/~newriver/nrv/foot.htm#xi >> Thank you Carolyn for this tip: I am so happy to read that someone has reput this on the net. I found this some time ago and was reading it and returning to it for the next post. Well all of a sudden it was gone, I wrote about it and the reply was that some things that did not received much interst was taken off their site but I might find it somewhere else. I looked and did not find it. I am happy to see someone has it posted on the net and I can return and read what I have missed. The articles I read were very, very intersting and gave knowledge of the area. Billie Jean Reese in AZ.

Dear Cousins, This coming week will be devoted to a lawsuit I have, and so I want to advise you of a new page at New River Valley Historical Notes. The site is searchable. Main page: http://www.ls.net/~newriver/nrv.htm The Ashe county page is of miscellaneous court records for 1807. This Ashe County page is so interesting because it portrays several of my theses: 1. Some stayed, and some rode on. Even if your Maryland, Pennsylvania, NJ, DE relatives stayed put, you will find others joined the migrations into Virginia, and then further south and west. Some repeated the cycle, and returned to the North. I think that is what happened to my Maryland Penningtons. It also happened with Quakers and their descendants. 2. Records and research pertaining to the kith and kin of your ancestors will enhance research on your own line. Most of my big "Finds" have been through looking for others that I didn't think pertained to me. 3. Look for spelling variants that might not quite fit. In this page, Osborn(e) is also spelled Ausburn. Talliaferro is spelled Tolliver. Minutes of the Ashe County, North Carolina Court of Pleas and Quarter Sessions 1807 http://www.ls.net/~newriver/nc/as1807co.htm On this page you will find Testerman, Burton, Smith, Sims, Williams, Davis, Crouch, Harmon (Herman), Pennington, and their kith and kin associated with them. And M-M-M. An extremely important clue is given in this page for our Cousin Mary (and all of us) in the Will of William Pepper. It begins, "Know all men by these presents that I William Pepper, Senior of Frederick County, State of Maryland, which lets us see that the connections to Maryland were not just early ones in Eastern Maryland, but late ones in western Maryland. It is wise to visit New River Valley Notes often, for Jeffrey Weaver's work is outstanding -- one of the best genealogy and history sites on the web. He has also added a local history published originally in 1900, "Foot Prints on the Sands of Time: A History of Southwestern Virginia and Northwestern North Carolina," by Dr. A. B. Cox, originally published by The Star Pub. Co. Print, Sparta, N.C. http://www.ls.net/~newriver/nrv/foot.htm#xi Love, and have fun with Ashe County, your legally correct Cousin, Carolyn Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com ========================================= --- Visit American Crossroads --- http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads

Dear Cousins, I hope you will join with me in all good and positive thoughts and prayers for my dear cousin Jo Ann (Adams) Lee, who passed from this earth last night, October 16th, 2001; and her family. Jo Ann was 68, the daughter of my Aunt Opal (McDaniel) (Adams) Cook and Harlan Adams. Jo Ann was the mother of three children, Joseph, Rodney Allen, and Connie. In addition to her children she is survived by her mother Opal, her husband Bill Lee, her brother Perry, and her sister Shirley. She was preceeded in death by her father Harlan Adams and her brother Norvin Adams. Jo Ann was a friendly, loving, good and kind woman who especially loved making music, and being in the outdoors. She made a joyful noise as she walked through her life. I will miss her, as will all who knew and loved her. Love, Your Cousin, Carolyn Carolyn McDaniel cmacdee@teleport.com ========================================= --- Visit American Crossroads --- http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~amxroads

Samuel b.c.1733,s/o John & Sarah Beadle. he had a Samuel b. 1770 & a Robert b. 1768. ----- Original Message ----- From: <keenebj@juno.com> To: <AMXROADS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 5:00 AM Subject: [AMXROADS] Samuel Pennington? > Hi, > Which Samuel Pennington are you referring to in your query re: Robert > Pennington? I have one in Ashe Co.NC/ > Grayson Co. VA up to 1830, and one in Russell Co.KY in 1860. Both b. ca > 1790. Just checking. > > Barb T > > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > >

Hi, Which Samuel Pennington are you referring to in your query re: Robert Pennington? I have one in Ashe Co.NC/ Grayson Co. VA up to 1830, and one in Russell Co.KY in 1860. Both b. ca 1790. Just checking. Barb T

At 07:19 PM 10/13/01 -0400, Marilyn Freeland wrote: >...I don't believe Robert B. and the 3rd are one and the same and I lean toward Robert 3rd being s/o Samuel.> I can't help with the Robert B. and 3rd identity problem, but I can tell you that Samuel's family is well documented and does not include a Robert. Good luck, Iz

Dear List, I need a little help with Robert Pennington the 3rd and Robert B. Pennington. They seem to be hopelessly mixed up. Robert Pennington 3rd. Cecil co. probate April 6, 1813 Elizabeth Pennington, widow Admin. Bond - James Morgan Jr., Rob Moody of Kent Co. The children are listed in another administration. Pennington was spelled with one N or two, depending on the document. Robert B. is proven in various deeds. He owned Essex Lodge, James discovery along with his brother Hyland B. both sons of Robert of Wm.. Robert 3rd owned Shrewsbury & Jamaica, reduced into one tract called Salem. Proven in Cecil Co. deeds. Noble Price witness the will of Samuel Pennington. Noble was the name of one of Robert 3rd's sons. I don't believe Robert B. and the 3rd are one and the same and I lean toward Robert 3rd being s/o Samuel. Pennington Pedigrees v.17#1 has Elizabeth Moody as wife of both Roberts. One of the group leaders has both Roberts dying in 1813. Likely, but doubtful without proof. Does anyone have proof where robert 3rd belongs on the tree ? Sincerely, Marilyn