Robert, You've hit upon a subject that very much interests me and theorizes Hessian origins and Norse, Norman, and Scottish relations. I don't know how far outside the our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the American Revolution... it may travel so we might want to take this out of the list and contact each other. I'm at citizen_soldier@breezemachines.com or stephen_kohler@mailsnare.com there's underscores between citizen_soldier and stephen_kohler /R Stephen >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Sulentic [mailto:rnsulentic@earthlink.net] >Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:07 PM >To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [HESSIAN] the term Hessian > >The German 'soldier trade' as it has been called, is one of those common >features of early modern warfare in Europe that seems to puzzle everyone >today, and the perhaps one way to look at it is that in fact, those armies >were more 'cosmopolitan' than we think of armies being today. Officers and >men could serve in different armies with no problem or opprobrium--Rall >served in the Russian Army for a while, and there were two French officers >in the Hessian Jaeger corps that were given their discharges and safe >conduct back to Europe when France declared War on Britain. Jaeger Captain >Johann Ewald left the Hessian Army after the war and went to the Danish Army >where he had a long career. > >Make no mistake, a quick look at the Hetrina volumes will show plenty of non >Hessians in the Hessian regiments: In the regiment von Donop, for example, >there are men from France, Sweden, England and Austria, plus other places in >Germany not in Hesse-Kassel, like Mainz. > >To paraphrase the line in Thackeray's novel "Barry Lyndon"--'Landgraf >Friedrich was too much in want of men to care from whence they came'. > >Friederich's father was supposed to have said that "The Army is our Peru" a >reference to the great silver mines the Spanish monarchy had there (and >hence money). > >While the individual soldier was either conscripted or volunteered, the >Hessian state could be called mercenary, as Hesse-Kassel provided troops in >exchange for money to, at various times between 1677 and the 1815, Denmark, >Spain, Venice, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Austria, and Prussia, even >going so far as to rent troops to both Austria and Prussia while those two >were fighting each other in the War of the Austrian Succession. (A very neat >trick, I've always thought). > >-Robert Sulentic > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: stephen_kohler@mailsnare.net [mailto:stephen_kohler@mailsnare.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:00 PM >> To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] the term Hessian >> >> Bob, Hoohah (fifteenth definition = ?Amen?)!That was an excellent >> breakdown of the ?to be or not to be?? ?a mercenary question.I understand >> that filling ranks by other than acceptable means was held to a bare >> minimum.It was not long ago that young American high school students in >> trouble with the law were offered by the judge a choice to join and serve >> their country or a prison term?I hardly see that as an acceptable means to >> fill the ranks of an all volunteer force.However, I don?t remember anyone >> tagging them as mercenaries.British troops today serving in Iraq suffer >> similar ridicule and indignity of being pegged ?mercenary? by other EU >> member nations. >> >> In Chapter IV, THE SOLDIERS in THE HESSIANS and the other GERMAN >> AUXILIARIES OF GREAT BRITAIN IN THE REVOLUTIONARY WARby Edward J. Lowell, >> Harper and Brothers Publishers New York, 1884 talks a great deal about >> Hessian Army regulation and recruitment.Nothing there would ever give me >> any indication anyone domestic and or foreign joining their ranks was a >> mercenary unless you stretch the true definition.Then you might have to >> include all Brits, Canadians, Germans, French, and other foreign nationals >> serving in the US Army (Green Card or no) mercenaries today. >> >> Not even the US "China" Marine in the Boxer Rebellion could be mistaken >> for a mercenary. >> >> /R >> >> Stephen >> Washington, DC >> >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Bob Brooks [mailto:rcbrooks@pivot.net] >> >> >Whether or not the German auxilary troops were "mercenaries" is a subject >> >where opinions get in the way of facts. In modern terms, it makes a good >> >"sound bite." I have not studied enough 18th century German history to >> >consider myself having any kind of expertise on the subject; however, my >> >limited studies have convinced me that (1) people did not have the person >> >freedoms which we are accustomed to today, and (2) a military career was >> an >> >honorable career. >> > >> >Snip... >> > >> >==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== >> >Please stick to our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the >> >American Revolution, not WWII or the Civil War. No other Immigrants. >> >You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going >> from one message to another. >> >To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS >> >To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L >> > >> >============================== >> >Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >> >Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >> > >> > >> >> >> ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== >> HETRINA - "Hessische Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhaengigkeitskrieg" >> Six Volumes covering Hessen-Kassel, Hessen-Hanau, and Waldeck. >> HETRINA does not cover Braunschweig/Brunswick, Ansbach-Bayreuth or Anhalt- >> Zerbst. Those are partly covered by other publications. >> This list was started in 1998 by Johannes (John) Helmut Merz, and you will >> find his explanations about HETRINA in our mail list archives. >> >> ============================== >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > >==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== >The Source HETRINA has been discussed more often than anything >else, you find the explanations by checking the key word archive. >You can find it by typing in "26 feb 1999" and look for HETRINA. >Or check the Threaded Archives for February 1999 - Hetrina publication. >You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. >To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS >To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >