I think this is a great idea and would volunteer if I had the resources that are needed. I am new to the "list" and new to the Hessian website. I am still trying to figure out what questions to ask and resources to order. Cynthia Ancestor: Johanne Phillip Goldeiss (Goldizen, Culdice, Cultice) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelda Percival" <nelda_percival@hotmail.com> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 5:56 PM Subject: [HESSIAN] Question?? for you to ponder > Hi, > When I first joined this list in 99, I think it was..(I've been on and off > this list a number of times) > > I tried searching the archives for my Hessians surname. To no avail. I > believe a list of surnames, First names, units, time served > /discharged/deserted, would be a great help to new members. > > I think we need a project and volunteers who have the resource books to do > it. > All a person would need to do is put the name of the book in the subject > line, then enter how ever many names they felt like extracting for the > day.. and send it to the list. each new extraction could have the book > name and part 2 or what ever part number they were on in the subject line, > and maybe an entry at the bottom of the email stating there was more to > come or if the end of the book then that there were no more entries. > > > If interested, just start sending the information as you get time to do > it... no need for any special format or anything... > > What do any of you think? Personally it would have been a great help to > me... > > Nelda > List Manager > >

Cynthia, Thank you... Wish I could help but like you I don't have the books either. If you do ever get any resources keep the list in mind. Nelda your: I think this is a great idea and would volunteer if I had the resources that are needed. I am new to the "list" and new to the Hessian website. I am still trying to figure out what questions to ask and resources to order. Cynthia Ancestor: Johanne Phillip Goldeiss (Goldizen, Culdice, Cultice)

Cynthia -- Phillip Goldeiß was a member of the Ansbach-Bayreuth contingent. He was a Gemeiner (Private) in the Leibkompanie of the Ansbach Regiment. This companiy was the senior company in the regiment and would be considered by the British as the "Colonel's company". The Ansbach Regiment, in German tradition, would be known by the name of the Commander. The Regiment was commanded from its arrival in June 1777 by Obrist (Colonel) Friederick Ludwig Albrecht von Eyb until May 1778 when Obrist August Valentin von Voit von Salzburg transferred from the Bayreuth Regiment to command. The Anspach-Bayreuth troops, except for the Jägers, wore dark blue coats with either red facings (Anspach Regiment) or black facings (Bayreuth Regiment). At the end of the war they were known as the 1st and 2nd Battalions of the Ansbach-Bayreuth Regiment. The authority on the Ansbach-Bayreuth troops is Erhard Städler, _Die Ansbach-Bayreuther Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhängigeitskreig 1777-1783 (Nürnberg: Kommissionsverlag, 1956) The title translates to: "The Ansbach-Bayreuth Troops in the American Independence War 1777-1783" Interpreting Städler, it looks like Phillip Goldeiß returned to New York from Prisoner of War status at Frederick MD when the POWs werre released and was present at the passe en revue covering the reporting period 25 Dec 1782-24 June 1783 (conducted on 25 June 1783, I think). Goldeiß should have embarked with the other returned POWS; however, he does not show up on the disembarkation muster in Sep 1783 in Germany. I recomend your first order of business be to read the journal of Conrad Döhla (_Tagebuch eines Bayreuth Soldaten des Johann Conrad Döhla aus dem Nordamerikanischen Freiheitskrieg von 1777 bis 1783_) as translated by Bruce E. Burgoyne, _A Hessian Diary of the American Revolution_ (Norman OK: University of Oklahoma press, 1990), xxiv, 276 p. Although Döhla was in the Bayreuth Regiment, the two regiments continuously served together. They marched from Ansbach, but mutineered enroute to the coast, the muntiny was quelled and they embarked for America. After a stop at Portsmouth UK, they arrived at New York, went to Philadelphia, returned to New York, went to Rhode Island, returned to New York, went south to Virginia where the surrendered in Oct 1781 as part of Cornwallis's Army, went to POW camp at Winchester VA, moved to Frederick MD, released from there and marched back to New York, embarked and returned to Germany and marched home. Check with Heritage Books. The Dölha Journal and the Journal of Johann Ernst Prechtel, a first sergeant, later a lieutenant, in the Ansbach Regiment (but not in Phillip Goldeiß's company) are available on a CD titled: Bruce E. Burgoyne, _Ansbach-Bayreuth Dairies from the Revolutionary War_. It also includes a couple of diaries by Ansbach-Bayreuth Jägers. Bob Brooks

Bob, Thank you so much for this information. I know I have read it before on this site but neglected to save it. This history covers my ancestor Georg Nikolaus Spaht (Spade). He stayed here and settled in Winchester Virginia. Our family believes he was captured in Trenton but his group must not have been at Trenton. I believe he was captured at Yorktown. I am interested in the mutiny while still in Germany. Our family believes he was forced (kidnapped) into the army. After reading about how the rolls were filled to have enough men to send to America, I am beginning to believe that may have been the case. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brooks" <rcbrooks@pivot.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] Question?? for you to ponder > Cynthia -- > > Phillip Goldeiß was a member of the Ansbach-Bayreuth contingent. He was a > Gemeiner (Private) in the Leibkompanie of the Ansbach Regiment. This > companiy was the senior company in the regiment and would be considered by > the British as the "Colonel's company". The Ansbach Regiment, in German > tradition, would be known by the name of the Commander. The Regiment was > commanded from its arrival in June 1777 by Obrist (Colonel) Friederick > Ludwig Albrecht von Eyb until May 1778 when Obrist August Valentin von > Voit von Salzburg transferred from the Bayreuth Regiment to command. The > Anspach-Bayreuth troops, except for the Jägers, wore dark blue coats with > either red facings (Anspach Regiment) or black facings (Bayreuth > Regiment). At the end of the war they were known as the 1st and 2nd > Battalions of the Ansbach-Bayreuth Regiment. > > The authority on the Ansbach-Bayreuth troops is Erhard Städler, _Die > Ansbach-Bayreuther Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhängigeitskreig 1777-1783 > (Nürnberg: Kommissionsverlag, 1956) The title translates to: "The > Ansbach-Bayreuth Troops in the American Independence War 1777-1783" > > Interpreting Städler, it looks like Phillip Goldeiß returned to New York > from Prisoner of War status at Frederick MD when the POWs werre released > and was present at the passe en revue covering the reporting period 25 Dec > 1782-24 June 1783 (conducted on 25 June 1783, I think). Goldeiß should > have embarked with the other returned POWS; however, he does not show up > on the disembarkation muster in Sep 1783 in Germany. > > I recomend your first order of business be to read the journal of Conrad > Döhla (_Tagebuch eines Bayreuth Soldaten des Johann Conrad Döhla aus dem > Nordamerikanischen Freiheitskrieg von 1777 bis 1783_) as translated by > Bruce E. Burgoyne, _A Hessian Diary of the American Revolution_ (Norman > OK: University of Oklahoma press, 1990), xxiv, 276 p. Although Döhla was > in the Bayreuth Regiment, the two regiments continuously served together. > They marched from Ansbach, but mutineered enroute to the coast, the > muntiny was quelled and they embarked for America. After a stop at > Portsmouth UK, they arrived at New York, went to Philadelphia, returned to > New York, went to Rhode Island, returned to New York, went south to > Virginia where the surrendered in Oct 1781 as part of Cornwallis's Army, > went to POW camp at Winchester VA, moved to Frederick MD, released from > there and marched back to New York, embarked and returned to Germany and > marched home. > > Check with Heritage Books. The Dölha Journal and the Journal of Johann > Ernst Prechtel, a first sergeant, later a lieutenant, in the Ansbach > Regiment (but not in Phillip Goldeiß's company) are available on a CD > titled: Bruce E. Burgoyne, _Ansbach-Bayreuth Dairies from the > Revolutionary War_. It also includes a couple of diaries by > Ansbach-Bayreuth Jägers. > > Bob Brooks > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > HETRINA - "Hessische Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhaengigkeitskrieg" > Six Volumes covering Hessen-Kassel, Hessen-Hanau, and Waldeck. > HETRINA does not cover Braunschweig/Brunswick, Ansbach-Bayreuth or > Anhalt-Zerbst. Those are partly covered by other publications. > This list was started in 1998 by Johannes (John) Helmut Merz, and you will > find his explanations about HETRINA in our mail list archives. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.0 - Release Date: 3/2/2005 >

Kay -- <<clip>> This history covers my ancestor > Georg Nikolaus Spaht (Spade). He stayed here and settled in Winchester > Virginia. Our family believes he was captured in Trenton but his group must > not have been at Trenton. I believe he was captured at Yorktown. "der Mousq. Nicolaus Späth, aus Bayreuth" was still on the "wanted list" in 1802 where a 01 Feb 1802 court order was published in the _Bayreuther Zeitung_ giving the named parties until 19 Dec 1802 to appear in court to explain their desertion in America or else the government was confiscating their hereditary property. This identifies the residence and probable birthplace of your ancestor as Bayreuth. "Mousq." is Mousquetier or Musketeer; i.e., an infantry Private. The Ansbach-Bayreuth muster rolls in T 38/812 at The National Archives (formerly the Public Record Office), Kew near London, do not give place of residence so you get a lucky hit here. Städtler has the following to say about you man, citing Döhla journal (Döhla and Späth served in the same company): Spaeth, Nikolaus, Gemeiner. B IV. Dö 12. 2. 83: ,,Ist der Gemeine Sp... wieder von Virginien gekommen and hat sich in der Baracke eingefunden. Er war schon fast ein Jahr weg und vermißt". 6. 3. 83: ,,Nachts ist Gemeiner Sp. wieder echappiert. Er soll verheiratet sein in Virginien and nur deshalb zum Regiment gekommen, um sein Trakament und Bagage abuholen." B IV. is mere the number assigned by Städtler to indicate this company. In my numbering system it is B1 indicates he originally was in the senior infantry company in the junior regiment; i.e., the company originally commanded by Obrist (Colonel) August Valentin von Voit von Salzburg. When von Voit transferred to the Anspbach Regiment in May 1778, command of this company was given to Hauptmann Christian Theodor Sigismund von Molithor who transferred in from the Ansbach Regiment. Molithor later transferred to command the Grenadier company in the Bayreuth Regiment and was replaced by Hoauptmann Georg Hienrich von Quesnoi. "Dö 12. 2. 83" indicates a quote from Döhla journal dated 12 Feb 1783. > I am interested in the mutiny while still in Germany. The journals of Döhla and Pretchel cover this. > Our family believes he > was forced (kidnapped) into the army. After reading about how the rolls > were filled to have enough men to send to America, I am beginning to believe > that may have been the case. While I have encountered suggestions that some men were involuntarily sent to America, in the norm I find that more likely more myth than fact. In the case of Nikolaus Späth, I suspect he voluntarily came to America. First, when he joined he joined Col v. Voit's company which was the senior company from Bayreuth which deployed. Second, the troops received British pay which was higher than the pay for a garrison soldier who remained in Germany. One can almost draw a comparison with the "contractor personnel" presently serving in Iraq -- they went because of the pay. The JSHA has a file on Nikolaus Späth but I have no idea as to its contents. Bob Brooks