Wayne, First, Please... that is not my summary. I included the reference data.. from > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessians I have never heard of a study on Hessians and NAs. YOUR"Could there have been any number Hessians that either resided in or moved, into the Sand Lake, New York area?" I don't do research.. You would need to check the 1790 US census. I don't have the expertise to answer this type of question. I once thought the changes were because of the inability of the person recording their names spelling it how it sounded to a non German speaking person, thus not understanding the accent used. but?? I have heard the reference that some changed their surnames but?? Mine didn't. nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 14:37:58 -0400 > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Trying to understand the Hessians > > Nelda Percival, > > I like your summary story about the Hessians in America! > Do you any information about the number (if any) of the Hessians that stayed > in American and married into the Native American Indian tribes? > Could there have been any number Hessians that either resided in or moved > into the Sand Lake, New York area? > Also, was it a common practice for some Hessians that stayed in America to > change their surname and if they changed their surname was there some common > method to establish the new surname? > > Thanks for any help with these questions!! > > Regards, > Wayne Simmons > http://simmonsgenealogy.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nelda Percival > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 1:22 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Searching for Daniel Howard > > > Chris, > If you haven't found his military records how do you know " He originated > from Hesse, Kasel, Germany." Hesse Kasel was a principaloty Please be aware > Germany was NOT a country untill after 1900. > > COPIED FROM THE WEBSITE - > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/why.htm > > In early 1776, King > George III of England hired units from the various houses or states of > Germany to assist with bringing the the colonist's rebellion to order. The > hiring of foreign troops to supplement a country's army was a normal > procedure during this time of history. Several of the German rulers, needing > hard currency and being "between wars", were only too happy to oblige. > > They were > Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (a principality in northern > Hesse) > King George III's brother in law, his son William, count of > Hesse-Hanau and nephew to King George III; Charles I, Duke of > Brunswick; > Frederick, Prince of Waldeck; Charles Alexander, Margrave of > Anspach-Bayreuth; and Frederick Augustus, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst. > > About 18,000 Hessian > troops arrived in North America in 1776, with more coming in later, of this > about 3/4 of them were from Hesse-Kassel. Thus the colonist's newspapers > referred to all of them as Hessians and the name stuck. > In addition to firepower, American rebels used propaganda against Hessians. > They enticed Hessians to desert to join the German-American population. In > April 1778, one letter promised 50 acres (0.2 km²) of land to every > deserter. > Benjamin Franklin wrote an article that claimed that a Hessian commander > wanted more of his soldiers dead so that he could be better compensated. > After the war ended in 1783, 17,313 Hessians returned to their homelands. Of > the 12,526 who did not, about 7,700 died - around 1,200 were killed in > action and 6,354 died from illness or accidents. Approximately 5,000 > Hessians settled in North America, both in the United States and Canada - > some because their commanders refused to take them back to Germany because > they were criminals or physically unfit. Most of them married and settled > amongst the population of the newly formed United States. Many of them > became farmers or craftsmen. The number of their direct descendants living > in the U.S. and Canada today is still being debated. > Paraphrased or copied for verbatim > from > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessians > > There have been many > emails sent to the archives discussing the reason that the units from these > different Germanic States were called Hessians instead of by their own > area's > name.....~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ALSO: > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/germany.h > tm > > The > Germanic States in 1775 > History > of the Germanic StatesNice map and full history > > > > > > Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, > Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - > http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm > > GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - > http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ > > GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ > Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > > > > > From: [email protected] > > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:16:41 -0500 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Searching for Daniel Howard > > > > Hello - > > > > I am hoping someone can help me in my search. > > > > What I DO know is that my hessian ancestors name was Daniel Howard. After > capture he was working farms in Greenwich, Ct before marrying an American. > Im having trouble in finding out where Daniel was captured. He originated > from Hesse, Kasel, Germany. I am assuming that the last name HOWARD might > have been changed from a more German last name. If anyone can provide help > I would appreciate it. > > > > Thank you > > > > Chris Howard > > > > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > > ~~~~~~~~~ > > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Cory, Stophel was a common nickname for Christopher. It's seen quite often in eastern PA in early records for Germanic immigrants. While I don't doubt that the Hessian Stophel was indeed most likely Christopher Oeste, potentially for lack of time and/or perhaps in consideration of an audience who wants entertainment rather than analytical details, the genealogist's explanation was lacking. >>The episode was very interesting and close to home (although I didn't understand how 'Christoph Oeste' all of a sudden became 'Stophel Hesion' - I assume the DAR genealogists made the connection but didn't have time to put it in the episode).<< Susan
Frank WattersFrank, Thanks,... How well documented is this book? "Rousseau and Revolution" by Will and Ariel Durant (Simon and Schuster, New York, 1967). Thanks for pointing this out, I'll have to read it. nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg
HiWhat makes you think MOST could read and write? Not to get into an argurement here, but in the 1700s education was not a paid for item. No ones government put the common person though any type of schooling. Look at the records we do find, for any of our ancestors from that time period how many signed with an X . Yes, there are some diaries and such but that percentage, if you look at it, is no wheres near most... I'd be happy to find out that the Hessians connected to my families could read and write. Nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg
I found a book that was from a descendent in the early 1900s and this is the story I see. Daniel Howard married rachel studwell in Greenwich ct feb 12 1784. I am trying to see what his real last name was since I don't think it was really Howard. Supposedly he came over to fight with his brother Peter. This book notes that Peter went to Philadelphia after the war. Thanks for the help - let me know if this turns up anything. Christopher Howard On Apr 29, 2012, at 12:22 AM, "Nelda Percival" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Chris, > If you haven't found his military records how do you know " He originated from Hesse, Kasel, Germany." Hesse Kasel was a principaloty > Please be aware Germany was NOT a country untill after 1900. > > COPIED FROM THE WEBSITE - http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/why.htm > > In early 1776, King > George III of England hired units from the various houses or states of > Germany to assist with bringing the the colonist's rebellion to order. The > hiring of foreign troops to supplement a country's army was a normal procedure > during this time of history. Several of the German rulers, needing hard currency > and being "between wars", were only too happy to oblige. > > They were > Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (a principality in northern Hesse) > King George III's brother in law, his son William, count of > Hesse-Hanau and nephew to King George III; Charles I, Duke of Brunswick; > Frederick, Prince of Waldeck; Charles Alexander, Margrave of > Anspach-Bayreuth; and Frederick Augustus, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst. > > About 18,000 Hessian > troops arrived in North America in 1776, with more coming in later, of this > about 3/4 of them were from Hesse-Kassel. Thus the colonist's newspapers > referred to all of them as Hessians and the name stuck. > In addition to firepower, American rebels used propaganda against Hessians. > They enticed Hessians to desert to join the German-American population. In April > 1778, one letter promised 50 acres (0.2 km²) of land to every deserter. > Benjamin Franklin wrote an article that claimed that a Hessian commander wanted > more of his soldiers dead so that he could be better compensated. > After the war ended in 1783, 17,313 Hessians returned to their homelands. Of > the 12,526 who did not, about 7,700 died - around 1,200 were killed in action > and 6,354 died from illness or accidents. Approximately 5,000 Hessians settled > in North America, both in the United States and Canada - some because their > commanders refused to take them back to Germany because they were criminals or > physically unfit. Most of them married and settled amongst the population of the > newly formed United States. Many of them became farmers or craftsmen. The number > of their direct descendants living in the U.S. and Canada today is still being > debated. > Paraphrased or copied for verbatim > from > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessians > > There have been many > emails sent to the archives discussing the reason that the units from these > different Germanic States were called Hessians instead of by their own area's > name.....~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ALSO: http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/germany.htm > > The > Germanic States in 1775 > History > of the Germanic StatesNice map and full history > > > > > > Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein > and Gillock > My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm > > GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us > Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ > > GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ > Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > > > >> From: [email protected] >> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:16:41 -0500 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Searching for Daniel Howard >> >> Hello - >> >> I am hoping someone can help me in my search. >> >> What I DO know is that my hessian ancestors name was Daniel Howard. After capture he was working farms in Greenwich, Ct before marrying an American. Im having trouble in finding out where Daniel was captured. He originated from Hesse, Kasel, Germany. I am assuming that the last name HOWARD might have been changed from a more German last name. If anyone can provide help I would appreciate it. >> >> Thank you >> >> Chris Howard >> >> >> PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! >> ~~~~~~~~~ >> FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Susan, that is wonderful I'd have never guessed.. We could use a list of nickinames used by the Hessuans. Thanks Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:07:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor > > Cory, > > > > Stophel was a common nickname for Christopher. It's seen quite often in > eastern PA in early records for Germanic immigrants. While I don't doubt > that the Hessian Stophel was indeed most likely Christopher Oeste, > potentially for lack of time and/or perhaps in consideration of an audience > who wants entertainment rather than analytical details, the genealogist's > explanation was lacking.
Can't remember where I found it in some historical record, but "Stophel" was a nickname for "Christoph" during that period of time. Suzanne From: Cory Griffin <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor The episode was very interesting and close to home (although I didn't understand how 'Christoph Oeste' all of a sudden became 'Stophel Hesion' - I assume the DAR genealogists made the connection but didn't have time to put it in the episode). Does anyone know if there was an 'official paper' that the Hession prisoners had to sign to be released? My family lore claims that 'our Trenton prisoner Hessian' had to sign a paper swearing that he would no longer fight for the British before he was released. However, something in the episode that the 'Hessian Prisoner Expert' Daniel Krebbs tells Lowe has me wondering if 'releases' were indeed officially documented. He says with regard to Lowe's ancestor: "Unfortunately, we don't have a military record that Christoph went to one of the guards...[to inquire about being released]..." . Cory -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of DeBard Genealogy Nut Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 11:32 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor I knew that people who financed the revolution were eligible for the DAR, but I was a little surprised that simply the act of paying taxes during the time period qualified his ancestor. I expected that Oest(e) might have joined the 'rebel' army, but this was apparently not the case. I don't know how to search the archives here, but I do know that someone who has posted here has a connection to this particular Hessian. John DeBardeleben -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 11:11 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor Dear Nelda and Listers, The SAR contacted Rob Lowe to invite him to join their organization,; so perhaps in honor of John Merz, Nelda could invite Rob Lowe to post his ancestor on the website. I believe the contact could be made through NBC or Ancestry.com/ You can watch the program on the Internet here: http://www.nbc.com/who-do-you-think-you-are/ Jane -----Original Message----- From: Susan King <[email protected]> To: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, Apr 28, 2012 10:34 am Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Trenton Old Barracks on TV I didn't get the tease and know ahead of time that Rob Lowe's ancestor was a essian, but it was easy to determine quickly which direction they were eading with the storyline. I was calling out to the TV, "He was a Hessian, ob!" J Also, so pleased (and thinking of John Merz) when the genealogist orrected the idea that they were mercenaries! Susan PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~ OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~ ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~ DMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I haven't figured out why my Brunswicker changed his name from Scherzberg to Shotzberger, but we have proof that it was changed within his lifetime. I personally don't think Shotzberger particularly sounds more English. He settled in a part of Pennsylvania that already had "Germans" living there and married the daughter of an immigrant from another part of Germany and wondered if that was why he changed it. I've talked to modern Germans who can't figure out either. I can tell you that in studying my Welsh ancestors, I've discovered that they spelled names phonetically on census records and spelled their own childrens' names differently every ten years going back to 1740 census and they could read and write. Suzanne From: Wayne Simmons <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 2:37 PM Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Trying to understand the Hessians Nelda Percival, I like your summary story about the Hessians in America! Do you any information about the number (if any) of the Hessians that stayed in American and married into the Native American Indian tribes? Could there have been any number Hessians that either resided in or moved into the Sand Lake, New York area? Also, was it a common practice for some Hessians that stayed in America to change their surname and if they changed their surname was there some common method to establish the new surname? Thanks for any help with these questions!! Regards, Wayne Simmons http://simmonsgenealogy.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nelda Percival Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 1:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Searching for Daniel Howard Chris, If you haven't found his military records how do you know " He originated from Hesse, Kasel, Germany." Hesse Kasel was a principaloty Please be aware Germany was NOT a country untill after 1900. COPIED FROM THE WEBSITE - http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/why.htm In early 1776, King George III of England hired units from the various houses or states of Germany to assist with bringing the the colonist's rebellion to order. The hiring of foreign troops to supplement a country's army was a normal procedure during this time of history. Several of the German rulers, needing hard currency and being "between wars", were only too happy to oblige. They were Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (a principality in northern Hesse) King George III's brother in law, his son William, count of Hesse-Hanau and nephew to King George III; Charles I, Duke of Brunswick; Frederick, Prince of Waldeck; Charles Alexander, Margrave of Anspach-Bayreuth; and Frederick Augustus, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst. About 18,000 Hessian troops arrived in North America in 1776, with more coming in later, of this about 3/4 of them were from Hesse-Kassel. Thus the colonist's newspapers referred to all of them as Hessians and the name stuck. In addition to firepower, American rebels used propaganda against Hessians. They enticed Hessians to desert to join the German-American population. In April 1778, one letter promised 50 acres (0.2 km²) of land to every deserter. Benjamin Franklin wrote an article that claimed that a Hessian commander wanted more of his soldiers dead so that he could be better compensated. After the war ended in 1783, 17,313 Hessians returned to their homelands. Of the 12,526 who did not, about 7,700 died - around 1,200 were killed in action and 6,354 died from illness or accidents. Approximately 5,000 Hessians settled in North America, both in the United States and Canada - some because their commanders refused to take them back to Germany because they were criminals or physically unfit. Most of them married and settled amongst the population of the newly formed United States. Many of them became farmers or craftsmen. The number of their direct descendants living in the U.S. and Canada today is still being debated. Paraphrased or copied for verbatim from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessians There have been many emails sent to the archives discussing the reason that the units from these different Germanic States were called Hessians instead of by their own area's name.....~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ALSO: http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/germany.h tm The Germanic States in 1775 History of the Germanic StatesNice map and full history Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > From: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:16:41 -0500 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Searching for Daniel Howard > > Hello - > > I am hoping someone can help me in my search. > > What I DO know is that my hessian ancestors name was Daniel Howard. After capture he was working farms in Greenwich, Ct before marrying an American. Im having trouble in finding out where Daniel was captured. He originated from Hesse, Kasel, Germany. I am assuming that the last name HOWARD might have been changed from a more German last name. If anyone can provide help I would appreciate it. > > Thank you > > Chris Howard > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Nelda Percival, I like your summary story about the Hessians in America! Do you any information about the number (if any) of the Hessians that stayed in American and married into the Native American Indian tribes? Could there have been any number Hessians that either resided in or moved into the Sand Lake, New York area? Also, was it a common practice for some Hessians that stayed in America to change their surname and if they changed their surname was there some common method to establish the new surname? Thanks for any help with these questions!! Regards, Wayne Simmons http://simmonsgenealogy.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nelda Percival Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 1:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Searching for Daniel Howard Chris, If you haven't found his military records how do you know " He originated from Hesse, Kasel, Germany." Hesse Kasel was a principaloty Please be aware Germany was NOT a country untill after 1900. COPIED FROM THE WEBSITE - http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/why.htm In early 1776, King George III of England hired units from the various houses or states of Germany to assist with bringing the the colonist's rebellion to order. The hiring of foreign troops to supplement a country's army was a normal procedure during this time of history. Several of the German rulers, needing hard currency and being "between wars", were only too happy to oblige. They were Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (a principality in northern Hesse) King George III's brother in law, his son William, count of Hesse-Hanau and nephew to King George III; Charles I, Duke of Brunswick; Frederick, Prince of Waldeck; Charles Alexander, Margrave of Anspach-Bayreuth; and Frederick Augustus, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst. About 18,000 Hessian troops arrived in North America in 1776, with more coming in later, of this about 3/4 of them were from Hesse-Kassel. Thus the colonist's newspapers referred to all of them as Hessians and the name stuck. In addition to firepower, American rebels used propaganda against Hessians. They enticed Hessians to desert to join the German-American population. In April 1778, one letter promised 50 acres (0.2 km²) of land to every deserter. Benjamin Franklin wrote an article that claimed that a Hessian commander wanted more of his soldiers dead so that he could be better compensated. After the war ended in 1783, 17,313 Hessians returned to their homelands. Of the 12,526 who did not, about 7,700 died - around 1,200 were killed in action and 6,354 died from illness or accidents. Approximately 5,000 Hessians settled in North America, both in the United States and Canada - some because their commanders refused to take them back to Germany because they were criminals or physically unfit. Most of them married and settled amongst the population of the newly formed United States. Many of them became farmers or craftsmen. The number of their direct descendants living in the U.S. and Canada today is still being debated. Paraphrased or copied for verbatim from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessians There have been many emails sent to the archives discussing the reason that the units from these different Germanic States were called Hessians instead of by their own area's name.....~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ALSO: http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/germany.h tm The Germanic States in 1775 History of the Germanic StatesNice map and full history Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > From: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:16:41 -0500 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Searching for Daniel Howard > > Hello - > > I am hoping someone can help me in my search. > > What I DO know is that my hessian ancestors name was Daniel Howard. After capture he was working farms in Greenwich, Ct before marrying an American. Im having trouble in finding out where Daniel was captured. He originated from Hesse, Kasel, Germany. I am assuming that the last name HOWARD might have been changed from a more German last name. If anyone can provide help I would appreciate it. > > Thank you > > Chris Howard > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
And Ost is German for east. So that part is believable. Linda Stingel-May Ussery Printing Cell 214 957 9219 On Apr 29, 2012, at 10:19 AM, Curtis Larsen <[email protected]> wrote: > > Just for the record, Stophel is the nickname for Christopher. It is the diminutive form of Chris. An el on the end makes it the diminutive. The diminutive for maiden for example is Madel. A little cat is Kaetzel and so on. >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 23:30:39 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor >> >> >> Cory, >> I thought that was a little far fetched...but if the accent and Christopher was misspelled it could be interpreted as Christolphel a Hession?? >> Also I thought they stretched it a little..Oste is East? WEll maybe... >> Don't know about a paper to sign as most did not read or write either..remember most were an equal or just above English serfs....but they did have to swear an oath.. so a record?? Maybe! you were educated only if your family was established or had monies.. there was no government paid schooling... >> >> >> >> Nelda L. Percival -PLEASE copy paste links >> Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm >> GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us >> Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ >> GilpinGenetics: not up yet >> Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp,Bonstein >> Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg >> >> >> >> >> >> PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! >> ~~~~~~~~~ >> FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
My Hessian ancestor who stayed in USA made his name more Ameican. When his real name was discovered we found he had just changed it from Borges to Burgess. And Rob Lowe's ancestor changed his from Oest to East. So you may need to look for a German name that is close to the name he used later. I think with the TV show they have thoroughly researched the ancestor before filming begins but they shouldn't have cut as much as they did. Maybe it was clear enough for those who haven't researched this subject as we have. I also thought the Trenton battle story was told more from the Hessian point of view on the show than the version I usually hear. I miss this group, I learned so much from all of you and John Merz that I knew that Rob Lowe's ancestor was a Hessian almost immediately... Cindy Alldredge
Nelda; What makes you think that "most did not read or write either". As a matter of fact, in the Quebec church records (Ancestry.com, Drouin Collection, 1621-1967, digitized) you will find that most Germans could indeed sign their name. It was the exception who could not sign, and even then, some pretended they couldn't sign on one document but signed their name on others. Of course, whether they could speak or write in English is another matter. The question of education, religion, etc. in Europe including the German Federation is well covered in a book entitled "Rousseau and Revolution" by Will and Ariel Durant (Simon and Schuster, New York, 1967). It covers the history of France, England and what is now Germany from 1756 to 1789, and in the remainder of Europe from 1715 to 1789. Frank Watters Descendant of Johann Halbär -----Original Message----- From: Nelda Percival Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:30 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor Cory, I thought that was a little far fetched...but if the accent and Christopher was misspelled it could be interpreted as Christolphel a Hession?? Also I thought they stretched it a little..Oste is East? WEll maybe... Don't know about a paper to sign as most did not read or write either..remember most were an equal or just above English serfs....but they did have to swear an oath.. so a record?? Maybe! you were educated only if your family was established or had monies.. there was no government paid schooling... Nelda L. Percival -PLEASE copy paste links Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: not up yet Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp,Bonstein Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Just for the record, Stophel is the nickname for Christopher. It is the diminutive form of Chris. An el on the end makes it the diminutive. The diminutive for maiden for example is Madel. A little cat is Kaetzel and so on. > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 23:30:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor > > > Cory, > I thought that was a little far fetched...but if the accent and Christopher was misspelled it could be interpreted as Christolphel a Hession?? > Also I thought they stretched it a little..Oste is East? WEll maybe... > Don't know about a paper to sign as most did not read or write either..remember most were an equal or just above English serfs....but they did have to swear an oath.. so a record?? Maybe! you were educated only if your family was established or had monies.. there was no government paid schooling... > > > > Nelda L. Percival -PLEASE copy paste links > Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm > GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us > Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ > GilpinGenetics: not up yet > Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp,Bonstein > Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > > > > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hi, You have to unsubscribe, the admin doesn't answer emails.. so go unsubscribe yourself and resubscribe from your new address nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 22:19:57 -0700 > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] change 0f email address > > I am currently receiving information from this site to my email at [email protected] Starting immediately, please change my email address to" [email protected] I will be discontinuing the old address. Let me know if I need do anything further. > Thank you, > > Ora Lee Klemme > > Oceanside CA
Chris, If you haven't found his military records how do you know " He originated from Hesse, Kasel, Germany." Hesse Kasel was a principaloty Please be aware Germany was NOT a country untill after 1900. COPIED FROM THE WEBSITE - http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/why.htm In early 1776, King George III of England hired units from the various houses or states of Germany to assist with bringing the the colonist's rebellion to order. The hiring of foreign troops to supplement a country's army was a normal procedure during this time of history. Several of the German rulers, needing hard currency and being "between wars", were only too happy to oblige. They were Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (a principality in northern Hesse) King George III's brother in law, his son William, count of Hesse-Hanau and nephew to King George III; Charles I, Duke of Brunswick; Frederick, Prince of Waldeck; Charles Alexander, Margrave of Anspach-Bayreuth; and Frederick Augustus, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst. About 18,000 Hessian troops arrived in North America in 1776, with more coming in later, of this about 3/4 of them were from Hesse-Kassel. Thus the colonist's newspapers referred to all of them as Hessians and the name stuck. In addition to firepower, American rebels used propaganda against Hessians. They enticed Hessians to desert to join the German-American population. In April 1778, one letter promised 50 acres (0.2 km²) of land to every deserter. Benjamin Franklin wrote an article that claimed that a Hessian commander wanted more of his soldiers dead so that he could be better compensated. After the war ended in 1783, 17,313 Hessians returned to their homelands. Of the 12,526 who did not, about 7,700 died - around 1,200 were killed in action and 6,354 died from illness or accidents. Approximately 5,000 Hessians settled in North America, both in the United States and Canada - some because their commanders refused to take them back to Germany because they were criminals or physically unfit. Most of them married and settled amongst the population of the newly formed United States. Many of them became farmers or craftsmen. The number of their direct descendants living in the U.S. and Canada today is still being debated. Paraphrased or copied for verbatim from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessians There have been many emails sent to the archives discussing the reason that the units from these different Germanic States were called Hessians instead of by their own area's name.....~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ALSO: http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/germany.htm The Germanic States in 1775 History of the Germanic StatesNice map and full history Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > From: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:16:41 -0500 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Searching for Daniel Howard > > Hello - > > I am hoping someone can help me in my search. > > What I DO know is that my hessian ancestors name was Daniel Howard. After capture he was working farms in Greenwich, Ct before marrying an American. Im having trouble in finding out where Daniel was captured. He originated from Hesse, Kasel, Germany. I am assuming that the last name HOWARD might have been changed from a more German last name. If anyone can provide help I would appreciate it. > > Thank you > > Chris Howard > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
John, http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Military:_US_Revolution/AMREV-HESSIANS.html this is where you sign up for the mailing list at the bottom of the section you will see search or browse the archives. ~~~~~~ Now no individual financed the revolution, individuals gave what they could, but there was no millionaire financing the war...If you can prove your family gave any type of support your eligible. The tax record they refer to here was specifically for the war effort and not a normal tax, from how I understand it.. nelda Nelda L. Percival -PLEASE copy paste links Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: not up yet Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp,Bonstein Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg I knew that people who financed the revolution were eligible for the DAR, > but I was a little surprised that simply the act of paying taxes during the > time period qualified his ancestor. I expected that Oest(e) might have > joined the 'rebel' army, but this was apparently not the case. > > I don't know how to search the archives here, but I do know that someone who > has posted here has a connection to this particular Hessian. > > John DeBardeleben
Cory, I thought that was a little far fetched...but if the accent and Christopher was misspelled it could be interpreted as Christolphel a Hession?? Also I thought they stretched it a little..Oste is East? WEll maybe... Don't know about a paper to sign as most did not read or write either..remember most were an equal or just above English serfs....but they did have to swear an oath.. so a record?? Maybe! you were educated only if your family was established or had monies.. there was no government paid schooling... Nelda L. Percival -PLEASE copy paste links Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: not up yet Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp,Bonstein Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg
Hi, You all forget I'm not the list administrator anymore... I'm no different then you - just a member.. Our list administrator deems not to answer any of my emails to them... Why don't you invite him... Nelda L. Percival -PLEASE copy paste links Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: not up yet Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp,Bonstein Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg
I am currently receiving information from this site to my email at [email protected] Starting immediately, please change my email address to" [email protected] I will be discontinuing the old address. Let me know if I need do anything further. Thank you, Ora Lee Klemme Oceanside CA
The episode was very interesting and close to home (although I didn't understand how 'Christoph Oeste' all of a sudden became 'Stophel Hesion' - I assume the DAR genealogists made the connection but didn't have time to put it in the episode). Does anyone know if there was an 'official paper' that the Hession prisoners had to sign to be released? My family lore claims that 'our Trenton prisoner Hessian' had to sign a paper swearing that he would no longer fight for the British before he was released. However, something in the episode that the 'Hessian Prisoner Expert' Daniel Krebbs tells Lowe has me wondering if 'releases' were indeed officially documented. He says with regard to Lowe's ancestor: "Unfortunately, we don't have a military record that Christoph went to one of the guards...[to inquire about being released]..." . Cory -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of DeBard Genealogy Nut Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 11:32 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor I knew that people who financed the revolution were eligible for the DAR, but I was a little surprised that simply the act of paying taxes during the time period qualified his ancestor. I expected that Oest(e) might have joined the 'rebel' army, but this was apparently not the case. I don't know how to search the archives here, but I do know that someone who has posted here has a connection to this particular Hessian. John DeBardeleben -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 11:11 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor Dear Nelda and Listers, The SAR contacted Rob Lowe to invite him to join their organization,; so perhaps in honor of John Merz, Nelda could invite Rob Lowe to post his ancestor on the website. I believe the contact could be made through NBC or Ancestry.com/ You can watch the program on the Internet here: http://www.nbc.com/who-do-you-think-you-are/ Jane -----Original Message----- From: Susan King <[email protected]> To: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, Apr 28, 2012 10:34 am Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Trenton Old Barracks on TV I didn't get the tease and know ahead of time that Rob Lowe's ancestor was a essian, but it was easy to determine quickly which direction they were eading with the storyline. I was calling out to the TV, "He was a Hessian, ob!" J Also, so pleased (and thinking of John Merz) when the genealogist orrected the idea that they were mercenaries! Susan PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~ OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~ ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~ DMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR<Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message