Well here's my two cents on the subject. One of the happiest moments in my life was when a researcher obtained a copy of my Hessian ancestor's signature for me. When I shared the good news with John Merz, he poked a little fun at my astonishment and sent me the message below: "Marie, I am excited as well, I knew it, I knew it - he could write!!! It is his signature - Beautiful and clear - no doubt about it. This is like the 'first step on the moon', here you have the proof! I am so happy for you and Frieda. Cheers, John" So it seems to me that might indicate that it was not unusual for a German soldier of the time period to be able to sign his name. Regarding the level of his "literacy", I can say that an earlier family researcher shared stories that either my Hessian, or a son of his who shared the same name, was the first certified teacher in the area, and that my Hessian taught German to children in the area for parents who wanted their children to know the mother tongue. Besides these stories, there is also ample documentation that over the years that he was a vital member of his community in Russell County, Va., serving as juror, grand juror, road surveyor, buyer and seller of property; he appeared in numerous court proceedings and on tax lists; and served as surety in his brother-in-law's marriage bond in Shenandoah County, Va. My ancestor was only a poor, farmer lad while in Germany, but he was able to assimilate in his new country and learn a new language, and I am very proud to be his descendant! Marie Rasnick Fetzer -----Original Message----- From: Everett Spees Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 10:37 AM To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing Hello all: I want to add to the discussion of how literate the Hessian soldiers were during the 18th Century, especially those who served in North America during the Revolutionary War. In researching my Hessian forbear, I met with and corresponded with the Evangelical Pastor of his village, Schwebda, adjacent to Eschwege, in Hessen. I visited there in 2007, was shown the sacramental records of my forbear and his family by the pastor, and corresponded afterward. I have translated a few passages from the information he sent me about schooling. This indicates that most if not all Hesse-Kassel children received compulsory religious and academic schooling until adolescence (and/or confirmation in the Lutheran or Calvinistic Reformed/Evangelical Church). The Sovereign (Landgrave, Margrave, etc.) of each German principality dictated which religious faith would be in force in his dominion. This information is backed up by other puibllished references. If you are interested in these, please contact me off line. Half of the Hesse-Kassel officers were of noble families, and received military cadet training in a college in Kassel. Some educated enlisted men entered service in the rank of Corporal, and were eligible for promotion to officer (Ensign) rank in the field, at the pleasure of the Landgrave. Officers needed to be able to communicate in French, the language of the Hess-Kassel court. Here are the translated passages: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The school was funded and run by the village community. The priest had the right of visitation and had to see to it that the teachers taught right. (Pastor was a "Double Boss"). The teacher was allowed to cultivate land. That was worth a lot in the old days. In addition, they received a reward in money. Singing and music were in the land of Hesse-Cassel since the Reformation, in common worship. It had remained Lutheran with "improvement points", the bread was broken at the Last Supper, which counted 10 different commands - "banned" images in the churches. Reformed churches, therefore modified the style but remained almost entirely theological in Lutheranism. There were established, however, in the country Kurhessen (Hessian District) real communities of Huguenots from France, authentic Lutheran congregations in the area of ​​Marburg, Uniate communities, where both creeds were equal (Frankfurt area) and the Reformed churches in Niederhessen. It was very complicated. Today we are a church in which all these creeds are equal. We are therefore simply called "Evangelical Church of Electoral Hesse-Waldeck." There is a special liturgy for worship. The Protestants use the Augsburg Confession. Always the Luther Bible lay on the altar. It was also an assignment in class at school. Religious education was compulsory until 1918. Since one could be freed at the request of parents or their (the students') own religious maturity, but must then complete additional ethics lessons. School attendance was compulsory until about 1720 to the level of the 4th Educational Category. Thereafter until about 1770 to the 6th Category. After 1770 to the 8th Class, followed by confirmation. Then the students progressed into training as a craftsman or took an easy job. Higher education was acquired at the high school from 5th grade, at extra cost. In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is today. Elementary School Grades 1-4 Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher education free of charge except for accommodation and free food In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is today. Elementary School Grades 1-4 Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher education free of charge except for accommodation and free food ++++++++++++++++++++++End Everett Spees Descendant of Johann Friederich Spies, Company 3, Hesse-Cassel Erbprinz Regiment, whose brother Henrich was in the same company, and whose brother Conrad was in the Garrison Regiment von Buenau - all served in America during the Revlutionary War -----Original Message----- From: Robert Sulentic <[email protected]> To: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 9:47 am Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing Hi Nelda, It's a confessional thing. You're supposed to be able to read the criptures--not just have a priest tell you what's what--so most Protestants (in ermany anyway) stressed some sort of basic education. I think that's mentioned n one of the church books that Burgoyne translated--not only was the pastor nstructing the children in religious instruction, he was also teaching them to ead. Everybody should remember, that 18th century Germany is a settled place, it is ot a frontier like America, where the various amenities of civilization don't ecessarily exist yet. -Robert Sulentic ww.vondonop.org ----Original Message----- From: Nelda Percival <[email protected]> Sent: Apr 29, 2012 4:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing HiWhat makes you think MOST could read and write? Not to get into an argurement ere, but in the 1700s education was not a paid for item. No ones government put he common person though any type of schooling. Look at the records we do find, or any of our ancestors from that time period how many signed with an X . Yes, there are some diaries and such but that percentage, if you look at it, is o wheres near most... I'd be happy to find out that the Hessians connected to my families could read nd write. Nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, onstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~ OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~ ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~ DMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, CeCe a lady I know does an excellent job of reviewing this series. I thought you might be interested in reading her reports... http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/04/finding-your-roots-with-henry-louis_30.html Nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg

I had heard that it was that area where Schuyllkill, Dauphin and Northumberland counties meet. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Fetters <[email protected]> To: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 5:51 pm Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing As I understand it, the "Hesssian Triangle of PA" is supposedly Berks, Schuylkill and Dauphin/Lebanon Counties, an area where a large number of Hessians settled and held a large number of German-Americans before that. . Much of that was Berks and Lancaster Counties, during the Revolution. My JHH was there until about 1800, when he moved west to his final charges in Huntingdon County, PA. He is buried at Antis Cemetery, just north of Altoona. Robert A. "Bob" Fetters ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cline, Christopher Thomas" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > Bob, > Could you explain what the "Hessian Triangle of Pennsylvania is?" > > Chris Cline > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Fetters > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 11:38 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > My ancestor, Johann Henrich HAMMER (JHH), was the son of a former soldier, > from the very small towns of Ibra and Machtlos, Hessen Kassel. He came as > a > Private to America, and was captured at Trenton. After a prisoner > exchange, > he returned to his Regiment, was made a Corporal, and in 1782, decided to > stay here and deserted to the American side. In the Hessian triangle of > Pennsylvania, where he had served his time as a prisoner, he married a > Julianna DUBBS/TOOPS. He became a teacher and minister of both the > Lutheran > and Reformed faiths. In a bio that survives, we learned that JHH was > taught > by his Reformed Church Minister in Germany and was certainly well enough > educated to serve his occupation, at least in German. He even wrote his > own > will (again, in German). If my ancestor is any indication, the literacy > and education level was very good for the common soldier. > > Robert A. "Bob" Fetters > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Everett Spees" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 10:37 AM > Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > >> >> Hello all: >> >> I want to add to the discussion of how literate the Hessian soldiers were >> during the 18th Century, especially those who served in North America >> during the Revolutionary War. In researching my Hessian forbear, I met >> with and corresponded with the Evangelical Pastor of his village, >> Schwebda, adjacent to Eschwege, in Hessen. I visited there in 2007, was >> shown the sacramental records of my forbear and his family by the pastor, >> and corresponded afterward. >> >> I have translated a few passages from the information he sent me about >> schooling. This indicates that most if not all Hesse-Kassel children >> received compulsory religious and academic schooling until adolescence >> (and/or confirmation in the Lutheran or Calvinistic Reformed/Evangelical >> Church). The Sovereign (Landgrave, Margrave, etc.) of each German >> principality dictated which religious faith would be in force in his >> dominion. This information is backed up by other puibllished references. >> If you are interested in these, please contact me off line. >> >> Half of the Hesse-Kassel officers were of noble families, and received >> military cadet training in a college in Kassel. Some educated enlisted >> men >> entered service in the rank of Corporal, and were eligible for promotion >> to officer (Ensign) rank in the field, at the pleasure of the Landgrave. >> Officers needed to be able to communicate in French, the language of the >> Hess-Kassel court. >> >> Here are the translated passages: >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> The school was funded and run by the village community. The priest had >> the >> right of visitation and had to see to it that the teachers taught right. >> (Pastor was a "Double Boss"). The teacher was allowed to cultivate land. >> That was worth a lot in the old days. In addition, they received a reward >> in money. >> >> Singing and music were in the land of Hesse-Cassel since the Reformation, >> in common worship. It had remained Lutheran with "improvement points", >> the >> bread was broken at the Last Supper, which counted 10 different >> commands - >> "banned" images in the churches. Reformed churches, therefore modified >> the >> style but remained almost entirely theological in Lutheranism. There were >> established, however, in the country Kurhessen (Hessian District) real >> communities of Huguenots from France, authentic Lutheran congregations in >> the area of ​​Marburg, Uniate communities, where both creeds were equal >> (Frankfurt area) and the Reformed churches in Niederhessen. >> It was very complicated. Today we are a church in which all these creeds >> are equal. >> We are therefore simply called "Evangelical Church of Electoral >> Hesse-Waldeck." There is a special liturgy for worship. >> The Protestants use the Augsburg Confession. >> >> Always the Luther Bible lay on the altar. It was also an assignment in >> class at school. >> Religious education was compulsory until 1918. Since one could be freed >> at >> the request of parents or their (the students') own religious maturity, >> but must then complete additional ethics lessons. >> >> School attendance was compulsory until about 1720 to the level of the 4th >> Educational Category. Thereafter until about 1770 to the 6th Category. >> After 1770 to the 8th Class, followed by confirmation. Then the students >> progressed into training as a craftsman or took an easy job. Higher >> education was acquired at the high school from 5th grade, at extra cost. >> >> In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for >> heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the >> community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). >> The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is >> today. >> >> Elementary School Grades 1-4 >> Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 >> >> Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher >> education free of charge except for accommodation and free food >> In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for >> heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the >> community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). >> The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is >> today. >> >> Elementary School Grades 1-4 >> Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 >> >> Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher >> education free of charge except for accommodation and free food >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++End >> >> Everett Spees >> Descendant of Johann Friederich Spies, Company 3, Hesse-Cassel Erbprinz >> Regiment, whose brother Henrich was in the same company, and whose >> brother >> Conrad was in the Garrison Regiment von Buenau - all served in America >> during the Revlutionary War >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Sulentic <[email protected]> >> To: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> >> Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 9:47 am >> Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing >> >> >> Hi Nelda, >> It's a confessional thing. You're supposed to be able to read the >> criptures--not just have a priest tell you what's what--so most >> Protestants (in >> ermany anyway) stressed some sort of basic education. I think that's >> mentioned >> n one of the church books that Burgoyne translated--not only was the >> pastor >> nstructing the children in religious instruction, he was also teaching >> them to >> ead. >> Everybody should remember, that 18th century Germany is a settled place, >> it is >> ot a frontier like America, where the various amenities of civilization >> don't >> ecessarily exist yet. >> -Robert Sulentic >> ww.vondonop.org >> >> ----Original Message----- >> From: Nelda Percival <[email protected]> >> Sent: Apr 29, 2012 4:46 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing >> >> >> HiWhat makes you think MOST could read and write? Not to get into an >> argurement >> ere, but in the 1700s education was not a paid for item. No ones >> government put >> he common person though any type of schooling. Look at the records we do >> find, >> or any of our ancestors from that time period how many signed with an X . >> >> Yes, there are some diaries and such but that percentage, if you look at >> it, is >> o wheres near most... >> >> I'd be happy to find out that the Hessians connected to my families >> could >> read >> nd write. >> >> Nelda >> >> >> >> Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, >> onstein >> and Gillock >> My Genealogy - >> http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm >> >> GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us >> Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ >> >> GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ >> Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg >> >> >> >> >> >> PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! >> ~~~~~~~~~ >> FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body >> of >> he message >> PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! >> ~~~~~~~~ >> OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> DMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] >> ------------------------------ >> o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body >> of >> he message >> >> PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! >> ~~~~~~~~~ >> FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Education of the young even in basic skills like reading and writing was a highly prized skill reserved mostly for boys of good families, expensive, often hard to get, and a mark of quality. The clergy being literate were often the teachers. Germany and the Netherlands were centers of learning; more so than the British isles or France. Most instruction was done in the family home by paid tutors. Don Fehlings In a message dated 4/30/2012 6:45:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Nelda, It's a confessional thing. You're supposed to be able to read the scriptures--not just have a priest tell you what's what--so most Protestants (in Germany anyway) stressed some sort of basic education. I think that's mentioned in one of the church books that Burgoyne translated--not only was the pastor instructing the children in religious instruction, he was also teaching them to read. Everybody should remember, that 18th century Germany is a settled place, it is not a frontier like America, where the various amenities of civilization don't necessarily exist yet. -Robert Sulentic www.vondonop.org -----Original Message----- >From: Nelda Percival <[email protected]> >Sent: Apr 29, 2012 4:46 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > >HiWhat makes you think MOST could read and write? Not to get into an argurement here, but in the 1700s education was not a paid for item. No ones government put the common person though any type of schooling. Look at the records we do find, for any of our ancestors from that time period how many signed with an X . > >Yes, there are some diaries and such but that percentage, if you look at it, is no wheres near most... > >I'd be happy to find out that the Hessians connected to my families could read and write. > >Nelda > > > >Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein >and Gillock >My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm > >GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us >Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ > >GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ >Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > > > > > >PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! >~~~~~~~~~ >FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 >~~~~~~~~~~~~ >http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin >~~~~~~~~~~~~ >ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As I understand it, the "Hesssian Triangle of PA" is supposedly Berks, Schuylkill and Dauphin/Lebanon Counties, an area where a large number of Hessians settled and held a large number of German-Americans before that. . Much of that was Berks and Lancaster Counties, during the Revolution. My JHH was there until about 1800, when he moved west to his final charges in Huntingdon County, PA. He is buried at Antis Cemetery, just north of Altoona. Robert A. "Bob" Fetters ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cline, Christopher Thomas" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > Bob, > Could you explain what the "Hessian Triangle of Pennsylvania is?" > > Chris Cline > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Fetters > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 11:38 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > My ancestor, Johann Henrich HAMMER (JHH), was the son of a former soldier, > from the very small towns of Ibra and Machtlos, Hessen Kassel. He came as > a > Private to America, and was captured at Trenton. After a prisoner > exchange, > he returned to his Regiment, was made a Corporal, and in 1782, decided to > stay here and deserted to the American side. In the Hessian triangle of > Pennsylvania, where he had served his time as a prisoner, he married a > Julianna DUBBS/TOOPS. He became a teacher and minister of both the > Lutheran > and Reformed faiths. In a bio that survives, we learned that JHH was > taught > by his Reformed Church Minister in Germany and was certainly well enough > educated to serve his occupation, at least in German. He even wrote his > own > will (again, in German). If my ancestor is any indication, the literacy > and education level was very good for the common soldier. > > Robert A. "Bob" Fetters > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Everett Spees" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 10:37 AM > Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > >> >> Hello all: >> >> I want to add to the discussion of how literate the Hessian soldiers were >> during the 18th Century, especially those who served in North America >> during the Revolutionary War. In researching my Hessian forbear, I met >> with and corresponded with the Evangelical Pastor of his village, >> Schwebda, adjacent to Eschwege, in Hessen. I visited there in 2007, was >> shown the sacramental records of my forbear and his family by the pastor, >> and corresponded afterward. >> >> I have translated a few passages from the information he sent me about >> schooling. This indicates that most if not all Hesse-Kassel children >> received compulsory religious and academic schooling until adolescence >> (and/or confirmation in the Lutheran or Calvinistic Reformed/Evangelical >> Church). The Sovereign (Landgrave, Margrave, etc.) of each German >> principality dictated which religious faith would be in force in his >> dominion. This information is backed up by other puibllished references. >> If you are interested in these, please contact me off line. >> >> Half of the Hesse-Kassel officers were of noble families, and received >> military cadet training in a college in Kassel. Some educated enlisted >> men >> entered service in the rank of Corporal, and were eligible for promotion >> to officer (Ensign) rank in the field, at the pleasure of the Landgrave. >> Officers needed to be able to communicate in French, the language of the >> Hess-Kassel court. >> >> Here are the translated passages: >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> The school was funded and run by the village community. The priest had >> the >> right of visitation and had to see to it that the teachers taught right. >> (Pastor was a "Double Boss"). The teacher was allowed to cultivate land. >> That was worth a lot in the old days. In addition, they received a reward >> in money. >> >> Singing and music were in the land of Hesse-Cassel since the Reformation, >> in common worship. It had remained Lutheran with "improvement points", >> the >> bread was broken at the Last Supper, which counted 10 different >> commands - >> "banned" images in the churches. Reformed churches, therefore modified >> the >> style but remained almost entirely theological in Lutheranism. There were >> established, however, in the country Kurhessen (Hessian District) real >> communities of Huguenots from France, authentic Lutheran congregations in >> the area of ​​Marburg, Uniate communities, where both creeds were equal >> (Frankfurt area) and the Reformed churches in Niederhessen. >> It was very complicated. Today we are a church in which all these creeds >> are equal. >> We are therefore simply called "Evangelical Church of Electoral >> Hesse-Waldeck." There is a special liturgy for worship. >> The Protestants use the Augsburg Confession. >> >> Always the Luther Bible lay on the altar. It was also an assignment in >> class at school. >> Religious education was compulsory until 1918. Since one could be freed >> at >> the request of parents or their (the students') own religious maturity, >> but must then complete additional ethics lessons. >> >> School attendance was compulsory until about 1720 to the level of the 4th >> Educational Category. Thereafter until about 1770 to the 6th Category. >> After 1770 to the 8th Class, followed by confirmation. Then the students >> progressed into training as a craftsman or took an easy job. Higher >> education was acquired at the high school from 5th grade, at extra cost. >> >> In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for >> heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the >> community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). >> The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is >> today. >> >> Elementary School Grades 1-4 >> Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 >> >> Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher >> education free of charge except for accommodation and free food >> In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for >> heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the >> community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). >> The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is >> today. >> >> Elementary School Grades 1-4 >> Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 >> >> Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher >> education free of charge except for accommodation and free food >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++End >> >> Everett Spees >> Descendant of Johann Friederich Spies, Company 3, Hesse-Cassel Erbprinz >> Regiment, whose brother Henrich was in the same company, and whose >> brother >> Conrad was in the Garrison Regiment von Buenau - all served in America >> during the Revlutionary War >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Sulentic <[email protected]> >> To: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> >> Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 9:47 am >> Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing >> >> >> Hi Nelda, >> It's a confessional thing. You're supposed to be able to read the >> criptures--not just have a priest tell you what's what--so most >> Protestants (in >> ermany anyway) stressed some sort of basic education. I think that's >> mentioned >> n one of the church books that Burgoyne translated--not only was the >> pastor >> nstructing the children in religious instruction, he was also teaching >> them to >> ead. >> Everybody should remember, that 18th century Germany is a settled place, >> it is >> ot a frontier like America, where the various amenities of civilization >> don't >> ecessarily exist yet. >> -Robert Sulentic >> ww.vondonop.org >> >> ----Original Message----- >> From: Nelda Percival <[email protected]> >> Sent: Apr 29, 2012 4:46 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing >> >> >> HiWhat makes you think MOST could read and write? Not to get into an >> argurement >> ere, but in the 1700s education was not a paid for item. No ones >> government put >> he common person though any type of schooling. Look at the records we do >> find, >> or any of our ancestors from that time period how many signed with an X . >> >> Yes, there are some diaries and such but that percentage, if you look at >> it, is >> o wheres near most... >> >> I'd be happy to find out that the Hessians connected to my families >> could >> read >> nd write. >> >> Nelda >> >> >> >> Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, >> onstein >> and Gillock >> My Genealogy - >> http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm >> >> GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us >> Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ >> >> GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ >> Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg >> >> >> >> >> >> PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! >> ~~~~~~~~~ >> FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body >> of >> he message >> PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! >> ~~~~~~~~ >> OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> DMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] >> ------------------------------ >> o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body >> of >> he message >> >> PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! >> ~~~~~~~~~ >> FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello - I second the question about the ''German triangle''. Can someone elaborate on that? Great discussion. Does anyone know where land was promised to deserting Hessian Soldiers? My family legend says our first Baer (Bar) was given land in Pennsylvania as a trade for allegiance to the Colonies. We assumed it was after the war but we aren't sure. Maybe he was a deserter? John's list has one Bar from Bayreuth that deserted but there is a disconnect somewhere. My Baers come from Perry Co Pa - some still there today- - they were wagon makers and farmers but they seem have moved there from somewhere around 1820. Any suggestions? Thanks, Larry Baer -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nelda Percival Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 1:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing HiNow see wasn't/isn't this a good discussion? The more we share about the HESSIANs the more everyone learns. I'd think that the ability to read the bible probably became the reason, most people of any rank, any country, started learning to read and write.. Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Fetters > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 11:38 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > My ancestor, Johann Henrich HAMMER (JHH), was the son of a former > soldier, from the very small towns of Ibra and Machtlos, Hessen > Kassel. He came as a Private to America, and was captured at Trenton. > After a prisoner exchange, he returned to his Regiment, was made a Corporal, and in 1782, decided to > stay here and deserted to the American side. In the Hessian triangle of > Pennsylvania, where he had served his time as a prisoner, he married a > Julianna DUBBS/TOOPS. He became a teacher and minister of both the > Lutheran and Reformed faiths. In a bio that survives, we learned that > JHH was taught by his Reformed Church Minister i Germany and was > certainly well enough educated to serve his occupation, at least in > German. He even wrote his own will (again, in German). If my > ancestor is any indication, the literacy and education level was very good for the common soldier. > > Robert A. "Bob" Fetters > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HiNow see wasn't/isn't this a good discussion? The more we share about the HESSIANs the more everyone learns. I'd think that the ability to read the bible probably became the reason, most people of any rank, any country, started learning to read and write.. Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Fetters > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 11:38 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > My ancestor, Johann Henrich HAMMER (JHH), was the son of a former soldier, > from the very small towns of Ibra and Machtlos, Hessen Kassel. He came as a > Private to America, and was captured at Trenton. After a prisoner exchange, > he returned to his Regiment, was made a Corporal, and in 1782, decided to > stay here and deserted to the American side. In the Hessian triangle of > Pennsylvania, where he had served his time as a prisoner, he married a > Julianna DUBBS/TOOPS. He became a teacher and minister of both the Lutheran > and Reformed faiths. In a bio that survives, we learned that JHH was taught > by his Reformed Church Minister i Germany and was certainly well enough > educated to serve his occupation, at least in German. He even wrote his own > will (again, in German). If my ancestor is any indication, the literacy > and education level was very good for the common soldier. > > Robert A. "Bob" Fetters >

Bob, Could you explain what the "Hessian Triangle of Pennsylvania is?" Chris Cline -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Fetters Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 11:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing My ancestor, Johann Henrich HAMMER (JHH), was the son of a former soldier, from the very small towns of Ibra and Machtlos, Hessen Kassel. He came as a Private to America, and was captured at Trenton. After a prisoner exchange, he returned to his Regiment, was made a Corporal, and in 1782, decided to stay here and deserted to the American side. In the Hessian triangle of Pennsylvania, where he had served his time as a prisoner, he married a Julianna DUBBS/TOOPS. He became a teacher and minister of both the Lutheran and Reformed faiths. In a bio that survives, we learned that JHH was taught by his Reformed Church Minister i Germany and was certainly well enough educated to serve his occupation, at least in German. He even wrote his own will (again, in German). If my ancestor is any indication, the literacy and education level was very good for the common soldier. Robert A. "Bob" Fetters ----- Original Message ----- From: "Everett Spees" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > Hello all: > > I want to add to the discussion of how literate the Hessian soldiers were > during the 18th Century, especially those who served in North America > during the Revolutionary War. In researching my Hessian forbear, I met > with and corresponded with the Evangelical Pastor of his village, > Schwebda, adjacent to Eschwege, in Hessen. I visited there in 2007, was > shown the sacramental records of my forbear and his family by the pastor, > and corresponded afterward. > > I have translated a few passages from the information he sent me about > schooling. This indicates that most if not all Hesse-Kassel children > received compulsory religious and academic schooling until adolescence > (and/or confirmation in the Lutheran or Calvinistic Reformed/Evangelical > Church). The Sovereign (Landgrave, Margrave, etc.) of each German > principality dictated which religious faith would be in force in his > dominion. This information is backed up by other puibllished references. > If you are interested in these, please contact me off line. > > Half of the Hesse-Kassel officers were of noble families, and received > military cadet training in a college in Kassel. Some educated enlisted men > entered service in the rank of Corporal, and were eligible for promotion > to officer (Ensign) rank in the field, at the pleasure of the Landgrave. > Officers needed to be able to communicate in French, the language of the > Hess-Kassel court. > > Here are the translated passages: > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > The school was funded and run by the village community. The priest had the > right of visitation and had to see to it that the teachers taught right. > (Pastor was a "Double Boss"). The teacher was allowed to cultivate land. > That was worth a lot in the old days. In addition, they received a reward > in money. > > Singing and music were in the land of Hesse-Cassel since the Reformation, > in common worship. It had remained Lutheran with "improvement points", the > bread was broken at the Last Supper, which counted 10 different commands - > "banned" images in the churches. Reformed churches, therefore modified the > style but remained almost entirely theological in Lutheranism. There were > established, however, in the country Kurhessen (Hessian District) real > communities of Huguenots from France, authentic Lutheran congregations in > the area of ​​Marburg, Uniate communities, where both creeds were equal > (Frankfurt area) and the Reformed churches in Niederhessen. > It was very complicated. Today we are a church in which all these creeds > are equal. > We are therefore simply called "Evangelical Church of Electoral > Hesse-Waldeck." There is a special liturgy for worship. > The Protestants use the Augsburg Confession. > > Always the Luther Bible lay on the altar. It was also an assignment in > class at school. > Religious education was compulsory until 1918. Since one could be freed at > the request of parents or their (the students') own religious maturity, > but must then complete additional ethics lessons. > > School attendance was compulsory until about 1720 to the level of the 4th > Educational Category. Thereafter until about 1770 to the 6th Category. > After 1770 to the 8th Class, followed by confirmation. Then the students > progressed into training as a craftsman or took an easy job. Higher > education was acquired at the high school from 5th grade, at extra cost. > > In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for > heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the > community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). > The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is > today. > > Elementary School Grades 1-4 > Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 > > Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher > education free of charge except for accommodation and free food > In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for > heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the > community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). > The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is > today. > > Elementary School Grades 1-4 > Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 > > Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher > education free of charge except for accommodation and free food > > ++++++++++++++++++++++End > > Everett Spees > Descendant of Johann Friederich Spies, Company 3, Hesse-Cassel Erbprinz > Regiment, whose brother Henrich was in the same company, and whose brother > Conrad was in the Garrison Regiment von Buenau - all served in America > during the Revlutionary War > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Sulentic <[email protected]> > To: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 9:47 am > Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > > Hi Nelda, > It's a confessional thing. You're supposed to be able to read the > criptures--not just have a priest tell you what's what--so most > Protestants (in > ermany anyway) stressed some sort of basic education. I think that's > mentioned > n one of the church books that Burgoyne translated--not only was the > pastor > nstructing the children in religious instruction, he was also teaching > them to > ead. > Everybody should remember, that 18th century Germany is a settled place, > it is > ot a frontier like America, where the various amenities of civilization > don't > ecessarily exist yet. > -Robert Sulentic > ww.vondonop.org > > ----Original Message----- > From: Nelda Percival <[email protected]> > Sent: Apr 29, 2012 4:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > > HiWhat makes you think MOST could read and write? Not to get into an > argurement > ere, but in the 1700s education was not a paid for item. No ones > government put > he common person though any type of schooling. Look at the records we do > find, > or any of our ancestors from that time period how many signed with an X . > > Yes, there are some diaries and such but that percentage, if you look at > it, is > o wheres near most... > > I'd be happy to find out that the Hessians connected to my families could > read > nd write. > > Nelda > > > > Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, > onstein > and Gillock > My Genealogy - > http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm > > GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us > Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ > > GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ > Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > > > > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > he message > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~ > OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > DMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > he message > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My GGG GF Hessian (actually Ansbach-Bayreuth) Johann Klein appears to have been literate as I have copies of several marriage bonds he signed with a beautiful Germanic hand. He appears to have been a common Soldier, not even an NCO. Somehow his son, my GG GF, also learned to write while living out on the Virginia frontier. However, my G GF does not appear to have been literate. That seems to have been typical for American farmers in the 1800s and on into the 1900s based on my real estate law work on old land titles. Chris Cline -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nelda Percival Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor Cory, I thought that was a little far fetched...but if the accent and Christopher was misspelled it could be interpreted as Christolphel a Hession?? Also I thought they stretched it a little..Oste is East? WEll maybe... Don't know about a paper to sign as most did not read or write either..remember most were an equal or just above English serfs....but they did have to swear an oath.. so a record?? Maybe! you were educated only if your family was established or had monies.. there was no government paid schooling... Nelda L. Percival -PLEASE copy paste links Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: not up yet Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp,Bonstein Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My ancestor, Johann Henrich HAMMER (JHH), was the son of a former soldier, from the very small towns of Ibra and Machtlos, Hessen Kassel. He came as a Private to America, and was captured at Trenton. After a prisoner exchange, he returned to his Regiment, was made a Corporal, and in 1782, decided to stay here and deserted to the American side. In the Hessian triangle of Pennsylvania, where he had served his time as a prisoner, he married a Julianna DUBBS/TOOPS. He became a teacher and minister of both the Lutheran and Reformed faiths. In a bio that survives, we learned that JHH was taught by his Reformed Church Minister i Germany and was certainly well enough educated to serve his occupation, at least in German. He even wrote his own will (again, in German). If my ancestor is any indication, the literacy and education level was very good for the common soldier. Robert A. "Bob" Fetters ----- Original Message ----- From: "Everett Spees" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > Hello all: > > I want to add to the discussion of how literate the Hessian soldiers were > during the 18th Century, especially those who served in North America > during the Revolutionary War. In researching my Hessian forbear, I met > with and corresponded with the Evangelical Pastor of his village, > Schwebda, adjacent to Eschwege, in Hessen. I visited there in 2007, was > shown the sacramental records of my forbear and his family by the pastor, > and corresponded afterward. > > I have translated a few passages from the information he sent me about > schooling. This indicates that most if not all Hesse-Kassel children > received compulsory religious and academic schooling until adolescence > (and/or confirmation in the Lutheran or Calvinistic Reformed/Evangelical > Church). The Sovereign (Landgrave, Margrave, etc.) of each German > principality dictated which religious faith would be in force in his > dominion. This information is backed up by other puibllished references. > If you are interested in these, please contact me off line. > > Half of the Hesse-Kassel officers were of noble families, and received > military cadet training in a college in Kassel. Some educated enlisted men > entered service in the rank of Corporal, and were eligible for promotion > to officer (Ensign) rank in the field, at the pleasure of the Landgrave. > Officers needed to be able to communicate in French, the language of the > Hess-Kassel court. > > Here are the translated passages: > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > The school was funded and run by the village community. The priest had the > right of visitation and had to see to it that the teachers taught right. > (Pastor was a "Double Boss"). The teacher was allowed to cultivate land. > That was worth a lot in the old days. In addition, they received a reward > in money. > > Singing and music were in the land of Hesse-Cassel since the Reformation, > in common worship. It had remained Lutheran with "improvement points", the > bread was broken at the Last Supper, which counted 10 different commands - > "banned" images in the churches. Reformed churches, therefore modified the > style but remained almost entirely theological in Lutheranism. There were > established, however, in the country Kurhessen (Hessian District) real > communities of Huguenots from France, authentic Lutheran congregations in > the area of ​​Marburg, Uniate communities, where both creeds were equal > (Frankfurt area) and the Reformed churches in Niederhessen. > It was very complicated. Today we are a church in which all these creeds > are equal. > We are therefore simply called "Evangelical Church of Electoral > Hesse-Waldeck." There is a special liturgy for worship. > The Protestants use the Augsburg Confession. > > Always the Luther Bible lay on the altar. It was also an assignment in > class at school. > Religious education was compulsory until 1918. Since one could be freed at > the request of parents or their (the students') own religious maturity, > but must then complete additional ethics lessons. > > School attendance was compulsory until about 1720 to the level of the 4th > Educational Category. Thereafter until about 1770 to the 6th Category. > After 1770 to the 8th Class, followed by confirmation. Then the students > progressed into training as a craftsman or took an easy job. Higher > education was acquired at the high school from 5th grade, at extra cost. > > In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for > heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the > community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). > The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is > today. > > Elementary School Grades 1-4 > Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 > > Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher > education free of charge except for accommodation and free food > In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for > heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the > community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). > The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is > today. > > Elementary School Grades 1-4 > Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 > > Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher > education free of charge except for accommodation and free food > > ++++++++++++++++++++++End > > Everett Spees > Descendant of Johann Friederich Spies, Company 3, Hesse-Cassel Erbprinz > Regiment, whose brother Henrich was in the same company, and whose brother > Conrad was in the Garrison Regiment von Buenau - all served in America > during the Revlutionary War > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Sulentic <[email protected]> > To: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 9:47 am > Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > > Hi Nelda, > It's a confessional thing. You're supposed to be able to read the > criptures--not just have a priest tell you what's what--so most > Protestants (in > ermany anyway) stressed some sort of basic education. I think that's > mentioned > n one of the church books that Burgoyne translated--not only was the > pastor > nstructing the children in religious instruction, he was also teaching > them to > ead. > Everybody should remember, that 18th century Germany is a settled place, > it is > ot a frontier like America, where the various amenities of civilization > don't > ecessarily exist yet. > -Robert Sulentic > ww.vondonop.org > > ----Original Message----- > From: Nelda Percival <[email protected]> > Sent: Apr 29, 2012 4:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > > HiWhat makes you think MOST could read and write? Not to get into an > argurement > ere, but in the 1700s education was not a paid for item. No ones > government put > he common person though any type of schooling. Look at the records we do > find, > or any of our ancestors from that time period how many signed with an X . > > Yes, there are some diaries and such but that percentage, if you look at > it, is > o wheres near most... > > I'd be happy to find out that the Hessians connected to my families could > read > nd write. > > Nelda > > > > Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, > onstein > and Gillock > My Genealogy - > http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm > > GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us > Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ > > GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ > Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > > > > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > he message > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~ > OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > DMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > he message > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello all: I want to add to the discussion of how literate the Hessian soldiers were during the 18th Century, especially those who served in North America during the Revolutionary War. In researching my Hessian forbear, I met with and corresponded with the Evangelical Pastor of his village, Schwebda, adjacent to Eschwege, in Hessen. I visited there in 2007, was shown the sacramental records of my forbear and his family by the pastor, and corresponded afterward. I have translated a few passages from the information he sent me about schooling. This indicates that most if not all Hesse-Kassel children received compulsory religious and academic schooling until adolescence (and/or confirmation in the Lutheran or Calvinistic Reformed/Evangelical Church). The Sovereign (Landgrave, Margrave, etc.) of each German principality dictated which religious faith would be in force in his dominion. This information is backed up by other puibllished references. If you are interested in these, please contact me off line. Half of the Hesse-Kassel officers were of noble families, and received military cadet training in a college in Kassel. Some educated enlisted men entered service in the rank of Corporal, and were eligible for promotion to officer (Ensign) rank in the field, at the pleasure of the Landgrave. Officers needed to be able to communicate in French, the language of the Hess-Kassel court. Here are the translated passages: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The school was funded and run by the village community. The priest had the right of visitation and had to see to it that the teachers taught right. (Pastor was a "Double Boss"). The teacher was allowed to cultivate land. That was worth a lot in the old days. In addition, they received a reward in money. Singing and music were in the land of Hesse-Cassel since the Reformation, in common worship. It had remained Lutheran with "improvement points", the bread was broken at the Last Supper, which counted 10 different commands - "banned" images in the churches. Reformed churches, therefore modified the style but remained almost entirely theological in Lutheranism. There were established, however, in the country Kurhessen (Hessian District) real communities of Huguenots from France, authentic Lutheran congregations in the area of ​​Marburg, Uniate communities, where both creeds were equal (Frankfurt area) and the Reformed churches in Niederhessen. It was very complicated. Today we are a church in which all these creeds are equal. We are therefore simply called "Evangelical Church of Electoral Hesse-Waldeck." There is a special liturgy for worship. The Protestants use the Augsburg Confession. Always the Luther Bible lay on the altar. It was also an assignment in class at school. Religious education was compulsory until 1918. Since one could be freed at the request of parents or their (the students') own religious maturity, but must then complete additional ethics lessons. School attendance was compulsory until about 1720 to the level of the 4th Educational Category. Thereafter until about 1770 to the 6th Category. After 1770 to the 8th Class, followed by confirmation. Then the students progressed into training as a craftsman or took an easy job. Higher education was acquired at the high school from 5th grade, at extra cost. In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is today. Elementary School Grades 1-4 Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher education free of charge except for accommodation and free food In the village school, the students had to bring wood or briquettes for heating. The school building and the teacher's home were funded by the community. The teacher was paid by the state from tax (civil servants). The school through grade 8 school was free (funded by taxes). So it is today. Elementary School Grades 1-4 Primary school grades 5-10 high school grades 5-10 high school class 5-10 Teaching + Vocational school 3 11-13 years Gymnasium upper class. Higher education free of charge except for accommodation and free food ++++++++++++++++++++++End Everett Spees Descendant of Johann Friederich Spies, Company 3, Hesse-Cassel Erbprinz Regiment, whose brother Henrich was in the same company, and whose brother Conrad was in the Garrison Regiment von Buenau - all served in America during the Revlutionary War -----Original Message----- From: Robert Sulentic <[email protected]> To: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 9:47 am Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing Hi Nelda, It's a confessional thing. You're supposed to be able to read the criptures--not just have a priest tell you what's what--so most Protestants (in ermany anyway) stressed some sort of basic education. I think that's mentioned n one of the church books that Burgoyne translated--not only was the pastor nstructing the children in religious instruction, he was also teaching them to ead. Everybody should remember, that 18th century Germany is a settled place, it is ot a frontier like America, where the various amenities of civilization don't ecessarily exist yet. -Robert Sulentic ww.vondonop.org ----Original Message----- From: Nelda Percival <[email protected]> Sent: Apr 29, 2012 4:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing HiWhat makes you think MOST could read and write? Not to get into an argurement ere, but in the 1700s education was not a paid for item. No ones government put he common person though any type of schooling. Look at the records we do find, or any of our ancestors from that time period how many signed with an X . Yes, there are some diaries and such but that percentage, if you look at it, is o wheres near most... I'd be happy to find out that the Hessians connected to my families could read nd write. Nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, onstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~ OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~ ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~ DMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Hi Nelda, It's a confessional thing. You're supposed to be able to read the scriptures--not just have a priest tell you what's what--so most Protestants (in Germany anyway) stressed some sort of basic education. I think that's mentioned in one of the church books that Burgoyne translated--not only was the pastor instructing the children in religious instruction, he was also teaching them to read. Everybody should remember, that 18th century Germany is a settled place, it is not a frontier like America, where the various amenities of civilization don't necessarily exist yet. -Robert Sulentic www.vondonop.org -----Original Message----- >From: Nelda Percival <[email protected]> >Sent: Apr 29, 2012 4:46 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing > > >HiWhat makes you think MOST could read and write? Not to get into an argurement here, but in the 1700s education was not a paid for item. No ones government put the common person though any type of schooling. Look at the records we do find, for any of our ancestors from that time period how many signed with an X . > >Yes, there are some diaries and such but that percentage, if you look at it, is no wheres near most... > >I'd be happy to find out that the Hessians connected to my families could read and write. > >Nelda > > > >Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein >and Gillock >My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm > >GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us >Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ > >GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ >Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > > > > > >PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! >~~~~~~~~~ >FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 >~~~~~~~~~~~~ >http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin >~~~~~~~~~~~~ >ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Nelda, I don't know about the literacy in 18th century Germany, but Sweden had a very high literacy rate at that time: "Generally speaking, Protestant areas had higher literacy rates than Catholic areas. The most extreme example is the case of Sweden, where, with the cajoling of the Lutheran Church, almost everyone was literate by the mid-18th Century." Spoken and Written Discourse: A Multi-Disciplinary Perspective, By Khosrow Jahandaríe, Praeger, 1999 ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelda Percival Date: Sunday, April 29, 2012 4:46 pm Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Reading and Writing To: [email protected] > > HiWhat makes you think MOST could read and write? Not to get > into an argurement here, but in the 1700s education was not a > paid for item. No ones government put the common person though > any type of schooling. Look at the records we do find, for any > of our ancestors from that time period how many signed with an X . > > Yes, there are some diaries and such but that percentage, if you > look at it, is no wheres near most... > > I'd be happy to find out that the Hessians connected to my > families could read and write. > > Nelda > > > > Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects > Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein > and Gillock > My Genealogy - > http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm > GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us > Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ > > GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ > Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > > > > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AMREV- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

We have a surname relative with the name of STOFFEL. Might orig.from Christopher too ? Doris -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Pryse <[email protected]> To: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Apr 29, 2012 5:51 pm Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor Can't remember where I found it in some historical record, but "Stophel" was a ickname for "Christoph" during that period of time. uzanne From: Cory Griffin <[email protected]> o: [email protected] ent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:12 PM ubject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor The episode was very interesting and close to home (although I didn't nderstand how 'Christoph Oeste' all of a sudden became 'Stophel Hesion' - I ssume the DAR genealogists made the connection but didn't have time to put t in the episode). Does anyone know if there was an 'official paper' that the Hession prisoners ad to sign to be released? My family lore claims that 'our Trenton prisoner essian' had to sign a paper swearing that he would no longer fight for the ritish before he was released. However, something in the episode that the 'Hessian Prisoner Expert' Daniel rebbs tells Lowe has me wondering if 'releases' were indeed officially ocumented. He says with regard to Lowe's ancestor: "Unfortunately, we don't ave a military record that Christoph went to one of the guards...[to nquire about being released]..." . Cory -----Original Message----- rom: [email protected] mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of DeBard Genealogy ut ent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 11:32 AM o: [email protected] ubject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor I knew that people who financed the revolution were eligible for the DAR, ut I was a little surprised that simply the act of paying taxes during the ime period qualified his ancestor. I expected that Oest(e) might have oined the 'rebel' army, but this was apparently not the case. I don't know how to search the archives here, but I do know that someone who as posted here has a connection to this particular Hessian. John DeBardeleben ----Original Message----- rom: [email protected] mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] ent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 11:11 AM o: [email protected] ubject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor ear Nelda and Listers, The SAR contacted Rob Lowe to invite him to join their organization,; so erhaps in honor of John Merz, Nelda could invite Rob Lowe to post his ncestor on the website. I believe the contact could be made through NBC or ncestry.com/ You can watch the program on the Internet here: http://www.nbc.com/who-do-you-think-you-are/ Jane ----Original Message----- rom: Susan King <[email protected]> o: amrev-hessians <[email protected]> ent: Sat, Apr 28, 2012 10:34 am ubject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Trenton Old Barracks on TV didn't get the tease and know ahead of time that Rob Lowe's ancestor was a ssian, but it was easy to determine quickly which direction they were ading with the storyline. I was calling out to the TV, "He was a Hessian, b!" J Also, so pleased (and thinking of John Merz) when the genealogist rrected the idea that they were mercenaries! Susan LEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~ UNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~ tp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~ MINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ----------------------------- unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] th the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of e message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~ OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~ DMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~ OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~ DMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the uotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~ OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~ ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~ DMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message LEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~ OUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~ ttp://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~ DMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Frank, I agree that most of the Hessians were probably able to read and write in German, and some possibly English or French as well. There's a hand-written letter in English, from my Brunswicker ancestor on microfilm, in the NARA records, sent to the U.S. Secretary of War in Washington, D.C., regarding his U.S. Army pension. There were a couple of spelling errors that someone with a German background would have made, but it is understandable and legible. If he could do it, I'm sure that others could, as well. Bill J. Smith descendant of Daniel Engelcke (Angle), private in the Von Specht Regiment, captured at Saratoga then joined Continental Army ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis T. Watters" Date: Sunday, April 29, 2012 11:24 am Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor To: [email protected] > Nelda; > > What makes you think that "most did not read or write either". > As a matter > of fact, in the Quebec church records (Ancestry.com, Drouin > Collection, > 1621-1967, digitized) you will find that most Germans could > indeed sign > their name. It was the exception who could not sign, and even > then, some > pretended they couldn't sign on one document but signed their > name on > others. Of course, whether they could speak or write in English > is another > matter. > > The question of education, religion, etc. in Europe including > the German > Federation is well covered in a book entitled "Rousseau and > Revolution" by > Will and Ariel Durant (Simon and Schuster, New York, 1967). It > covers the > history of France, England and what is now Germany from 1756 to > 1789, and in > the remainder of Europe from 1715 to 1789. > > > Frank Watters > Descendant of Johann Halbär >

Hi Nelda; The book runs to almost 1,000 pages, and the bibliographical guide alone comprises 15 pages. So it seems to be well documented. According to what I just found on the Internet, they won a Pulitzer Prize in 1968 for a Non Fictional work. Frank -----Original Message----- From: Nelda Percival Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 4:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor Frank WattersFrank, Thanks,... How well documented is this book? "Rousseau and Revolution" by Will and Ariel Durant (Simon and Schuster, New York, 1967). Thanks for pointing this out, I'll have to read it. nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Nelda, Thanks for your response, I am sorry that I misunderstood your posting! Best Regards, Wayne -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nelda Percival Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 5:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Trying to understand the Hessians Wayne, First, Please... that is not my summary. I included the reference data.. from > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessians I have never heard of a study on Hessians and NAs. YOUR"Could there have been any number Hessians that either resided in or moved, into the Sand Lake, New York area?" I don't do research.. You would need to check the 1790 US census. I don't have the expertise to answer this type of question. I once thought the changes were because of the inability of the person recording their names spelling it how it sounded to a non German speaking person, thus not understanding the accent used. but?? I have heard the reference that some changed their surnames but?? Mine didn't. nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 14:37:58 -0400 > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Trying to understand the Hessians > > Nelda Percival, > > I like your summary story about the Hessians in America! > Do you any information about the number (if any) of the Hessians that > stayed in American and married into the Native American Indian tribes? > Could there have been any number Hessians that either resided in or > moved into the Sand Lake, New York area? > Also, was it a common practice for some Hessians that stayed in > America to change their surname and if they changed their surname was > there some common method to establish the new surname? > > Thanks for any help with these questions!! > > Regards, > Wayne Simmons > http://simmonsgenealogy.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nelda > Percival > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 1:22 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Searching for Daniel Howard > > > Chris, > If you haven't found his military records how do you know " He > originated from Hesse, Kasel, Germany." Hesse Kasel was a principaloty > Please be aware Germany was NOT a country untill after 1900. > > COPIED FROM THE WEBSITE - > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/why > .htm > > In early 1776, King > George III of England hired units from the various houses or states > of Germany to assist with bringing the the colonist's rebellion to > order. The hiring of foreign troops to supplement a country's army was > a normal procedure during this time of history. Several of the German > rulers, needing hard currency and being "between wars", were only too happy to oblige. > > They were > Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel (a principality in > northern > Hesse) > King George III's brother in law, his son William, count of > Hesse-Hanau and nephew to King George III; Charles I, Duke of > Brunswick; > Frederick, Prince of Waldeck; Charles Alexander, Margrave of > Anspach-Bayreuth; and Frederick Augustus, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst. > > About 18,000 Hessian > troops arrived in North America in 1776, with more coming in later, of > this about 3/4 of them were from Hesse-Kassel. Thus the colonist's > newspapers referred to all of them as Hessians and the name stuck. > In addition to firepower, American rebels used propaganda against Hessians. > They enticed Hessians to desert to join the German-American > population. In April 1778, one letter promised 50 acres (0.2 km²) of > land to every deserter. > Benjamin Franklin wrote an article that claimed that a Hessian > commander wanted more of his soldiers dead so that he could be better compensated. > After the war ended in 1783, 17,313 Hessians returned to their > homelands. Of the 12,526 who did not, about 7,700 died - around 1,200 > were killed in action and 6,354 died from illness or accidents. > Approximately 5,000 Hessians settled in North America, both in the > United States and Canada - some because their commanders refused to > take them back to Germany because they were criminals or physically > unfit. Most of them married and settled amongst the population of the > newly formed United States. Many of them became farmers or craftsmen. > The number of their direct descendants living in the U.S. and Canada today is still being debated. > Paraphrased or copied for verbatim > from > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessians > > There have been many > emails sent to the archives discussing the reason that the units from > these different Germanic States were called Hessians instead of by > their own area's > name.....~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ALSO: > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ger > many.h > tm > > The > Germanic States in 1775 > History > of the Germanic StatesNice map and full history > > > > > > Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, > Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - > http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ind > ex.htm > > GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - > http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ > > GilpinGenetics: http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ > Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg > > > > > From: [email protected] > > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:16:41 -0500 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Searching for Daniel Howard > > > > Hello - > > > > I am hoping someone can help me in my search. > > > > What I DO know is that my hessian ancestors name was Daniel Howard. > > After > capture he was working farms in Greenwich, Ct before marrying an American. > Im having trouble in finding out where Daniel was captured. He > originated from Hesse, Kasel, Germany. I am assuming that the last > name HOWARD might have been changed from a more German last name. If > anyone can provide help I would appreciate it. > > > > Thank you > > > > Chris Howard > > > > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > > ~~~~~~~~~ > > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! > ~~~~~~~~~ > FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear AM-REV HESSIANS list members and administrator, I must apologize to the administrator for saying he doesn't respond to emails sent to him. When he first took over a few years ago, I tried communicating with him no response to messages and one to staff asking them to check if the list had been abandoned. they said it wasn't abandoned I should have checked again before writing that. Please accept my apology and forward this to the list. Nelda THANK YOU NELDA for your VALUABLE CONTRIBUTION TO OUR LIST "Kerri" - Glendle Hubert Belcher, Jr. <[email protected]> OR <[email protected]>

It's been a while since I've participated here, since I haven't as yet found any Hessians in my family tree, although for a while I thought there might be some.  The program about Rob Loew prompts me to ask if any of you, probably on your way to looking up something else, have seen anything that would be of help to me.   I have a 3x great-grandfather named William Mason, born either in Ireland in 1757 or in Newfoundland in 1760, and died in Country Harbour, Guysborough Co., Nove Scotia in 1832.  In 1785 he married Mary Ann Rogers, 1767-1872.  I've seen that he was a British POW in Philadelphia.  Now come my questions.  Did English/Scottish/Irish soldiers as well as Hessians fight in the battle of Trenton?  Could that be where he was captured?  And what records are there, and where are they, concerning British POWs in the Philadelphia area?  William's father, either Peter or John Mason, was born in Ireland in 1735 and died in Philadelphia in 1780.  William's mother was Sarah O'Brien, b. ca 1735.   I know that what I'm asking is not what most of you deal with, but I would appreciate any light that any of you can shed on this.   I'm still trying to find out more about two other British or Loyalist ancestors.  One of them is John Cresine/Crescine, ca1758-1816; m.  27 Jul 1784, Guysborough, Guysborough Co., Nova Scotia) Hannah Sowers (or Sower, Sauer, or Sauers), ca1766-1858.  He also is listed as Johannes Griesheim or other forms of those names.  In the 1871 Canadian census he and his family were listed as German farmers.  Hannah might have arrived in Lunenberg, NS, perhaps with her parents.  The other such ancestor is James Imlay, ca1755-1813, who is thought to have come from Aberdeenshire.  He m. Margaret Cassells (var. sp.), ca1760-1833, 04 Dec 1797.  James (and John) settled in Guysborough in 1783 or 1784.  They had been in one of the Highland Regiments and were in the Associated Department of the Army and the Navy.  I don't know if James was married prior to his marriage to Margaret, although it appears that he wasn't.   After James' death, Margaret m. one of John & Hannah's sons.  All of these people migrated to Guysborough Co., NS, and died there.  Have any of you found new information about any of these people, or have some of you joined the group since the last time a inquired about them and have information about them?  Pointers on where to look for information would be helpful and appreciated.  Cousins in Nova Scotia have exhausted the resources available to them there.     --  Bob Lewis    From: Francis T. Watters <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor Hi Nelda; The book runs to almost 1,000 pages, and the bibliographical guide alone comprises 15 pages.  So it seems to be well documented.  According to what I just found on the Internet, they won a Pulitzer Prize in 1968 for a Non Fictional work. Frank -----Original Message----- From: Nelda Percival Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 4:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor Frank WattersFrank, Thanks,... How well documented is this book? "Rousseau and Revolution" by Will and Ariel Durant (Simon and Schuster, New York, 1967). Thanks for pointing this out, I'll have to read it. nelda Nelda L. Percival, Administrator of Y-DNA surname projects Gilpin, Cupp, Bonstein and Gillock My Genealogy - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/index.htm GeneticGenealogy - http://www.geneticsand.us Blog - http://aircastles-lets-talk.blogspot.com/ GilpinGenetics:  http://www.gilpingenetics.us/ Web Mistress for LCRG - http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~molcgdrg PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I disagree, Bill. I'm of the opinion that most conscriptees were "poor peasant folk," who were much less likely to have been literate. I haven't seen the letter you mention--although I'd like to--but another possibility is that the Brunswicker (as my ancestor, Levy Derrow/Levin Doerge/Levien Doerries, was) got someone to write it for him. Just my two cents... Bill Derrow ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: "Francis T. Watters" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor Frank, I agree that most of the Hessians were probably able to read and write in German, and some possibly English or French as well. There's a hand-written letter in English, from my Brunswicker ancestor on microfilm, in the NARA records, sent to the U.S. Secretary of War in Washington, D.C., regarding his U.S. Army pension. There were a couple of spelling errors that someone with a German background would have made, but it is understandable and legible. If he could do it, I'm sure that others could, as well. Bill J. Smith descendant of Daniel Engelcke (Angle), private in the Von Specht Regiment, captured at Saratoga then joined Continental Army ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis T. Watters" Date: Sunday, April 29, 2012 11:24 am Subject: Re: [AMREV-HESSIANS] Rob Lowe's Hessian Grenadier Ancestor To: [email protected] > Nelda; > > What makes you think that "most did not read or write either". > As a matter > of fact, in the Quebec church records (Ancestry.com, Drouin > Collection, > 1621-1967, digitized) you will find that most Germans could > indeed sign > their name. It was the exception who could not sign, and even > then, some > pretended they couldn't sign on one document but signed their > name on > others. Of course, whether they could speak or write in English > is another > matter. > > The question of education, religion, etc. in Europe including > the German > Federation is well covered in a book entitled "Rousseau and > Revolution" by > Will and Ariel Durant (Simon and Schuster, New York, 1967). It > covers the > history of France, England and what is now Germany from 1756 to > 1789, and in > the remainder of Europe from 1715 to 1789. > > > Frank Watters > Descendant of Johann Halbär > PLEASE CHECK ALL OF YOUR SUBJECTS! ~~~~~~~~~ FOUNDER: John H. Merz 1924-2006 Created 1998 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ADMINISTRATOR&lt;Kerri> [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message