Greetings! Just a thought...could either of these Spies-Spees soldiers be my missing Spiceland? I have come up with a Heiko Spiceland living in North Carolina in the early 1780's, but still no link to the Hessian soldier the family stories tell of. Jan Bartee Walker

Dear Bob, sorry, didn't mean to say deserters, meant to say 'soldiers', I was still mentally working on my previous posting which dealt with 'deserters' :-) although a number of Brunswickers did desert in Penobscot, the only thing not clear where they deserted to. Examples: Johann Bartholomaei on 19 May 1783, Johann Heinrich Fricke in 1783, Andreas Goersch in 1783 (see JSHA Journal 7/1 p.60) Georg Gude, in 1783. etc. (This from Clifford Neal Smith - Brunswick deserters (my S#18) John ----- Original Message ----- From: "RC Brooks" <rcbrooks@pivot.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] Re: Fort George & Germans > John -- > > <<<clip>>> I personally want to mention that several Brunswick deserters > from Penobscot settled in New Brunswick. <<<snip>>> > > Not exactly! > > Dupenack, Hildebrand, and Ritter who drew town lots in St Andrews and farm lots in the sixth division of the Penobscot Association land grants where three of the four men duly discharged on 14 July 1783 at Penobscot by Capt. H.U. Cleve. > > Bob Brooks

Everett, here is some additional information - In the Monograph #28, Part 3, by Clifford Neal Smith, Desereters by Date of Desertions - there were only a total of 14 desertions listed from Hessian Regiments, your Henrich Spies was one of them, plus two more men from the same company, SCHAEFFER, Arnold, and SCHAEFFER, Johannes. Both of them came from Waltersbrueck D-3581. If they all took off at the same time I don't know, but it could well be, and perhaps they stuck together. Worth looking into. Cheers, John Merz From: "John Merz" <hessian@sympatico.ca> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 11:42 AM > <SNIP> > From Hetrina III following the entry for Friedrich SPIES comes: > Henrich SPIES, born 1752/54 in Schwebda D-3441 (same as Friedrich), > private soldier, 3.Comp., Kassel Regt. Erbprinz. on Muster Roll in 1775, > and later listed as deserted in April 1781. No further information for this > man has come in, and myself have had no enquiries for him from anybody. > That's why he was not on my lists. > > But let's talk about his date of desertion, or that's the question, when he > was reported as a deserted. The Kassel Erbprinz Regiment was shipped from > New York to Portsmouth, Virginia in March 1781, where it joinred the > Cornwallis army. Henrich Spies either deserted just before shipping out, > which would mean he stayed around New York, or he deserted right after > arrival in Portsmouth, Virginia, and made his way somewhere. > In any event, so far nobody I know of, has asked for him. Perhaps he jumped > ship, drowned, or whatever, and who knows, perhaps used another name.

John -- <<<clip>>> I personally want to mention that several Brunswick deserters from Penobscot settled in New Brunswick. <<<snip>>> Not exactly! Dupenack, Hildebrand, and Ritter who drew town lots in St Andrews and farm lots in the sixth division of the Penobscot Association land grants where three of the four men duly discharged on 14 July 1783 at Penobscot by Capt. H.U. Cleve. Bob Brooks

Hello Everett; Thanks for bringing this up and thereby giving me a chance to comment on those missing 'SPIES' soldiers. From Hetrina III following the entry for Friedrich SPIES comes: Henrich SPIES, born 1752/54 in Schwebda D-3441 (same as Friedrich), private soldier, 3.Comp., Kassel Regt. Erbprinz. on Muster Roll in 1775, and later listed as deserted in April 1781. No further information for this man has come in, and myself have had no enquiries for him from anybody. That's why he was not on my lists. But let's talk about his date of desertion, or that's the question, when he was reported as a deserted. The Kassel Erbprinz Regiment was shipped from New York to Portsmouth, Virginia in March 1781, where it joinred the Cornwallis army. Henrich Spies either deserted just before shipping out, which would mean he stayed around New York, or he deserted right after arrival in Portsmouth, Virginia, and made his way somewhere. In any event, so far nobody I know of, has asked for him. Perhaps he jumped ship, drowned, or whatever, and who knows, perhaps used another name. This brings us to the other Hessen-Kassel Jaeger Valentin SPIES, listed in the supplement to my Guide on page 116. This one is simple, he was born 1756/57 at Eichsfeld/Thuringia, served in the 4th Jaeger Company, and deserted in November 1783, just before the last of the Hessian troops left from New York. I have not heard anybody asking for him as yet, but here he is on record now for anybody looking. Sincerely, John Merz, *** want to come to the Rose House Museum in Picton, 21. August 2004?*** ----- Original Message ----- From: <Ekshae@aol.com> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] SPIES - SPEES = Lost in America. > John: > > Thanks so much for the Guide that was forwarded to me at my Army address in > Texas. Also thank you for the comprehensive Personal Data file on my forbear > Friedrich Spies of Schwebda and the Erbprinz Regiment, company #3. > > As is often the case when we look at research it may open new questions. In > the Guide I found an additional Spies entry, one on page 116 for Valentin > Spies, listed under deserters. > > In your PDF HETRINA listing there is Henrich Spies, also from Schwebda, and > also in Erprinz Company #3. Valentin Spies' name does not appear on that > listing. I would love to know what information we have about these additional > individuals' military and subsequent civilian history/genealogy. Or do they just > disappear? > > I also received my Hessian pins from Bob Fetters and think they are great. > > Best. Everett Spees > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > HETRINA - "Hessische Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhaengigkeitskrieg" > Six Volumes covering Hessen-Kassel, Hessen-Hanau, and Waldeck. > HETRINA does not cover Braunschweig/Brunswick, Ansbach-Bayreuth or Anhalt-Zerbst. Those are partly covered by other publications. > You'll find information in the keyword archive 1999 "26 feb 1999" >

Hello Christine, here is one answer from our 'Down East' expert, I personally want to mention that several Brunswick deserters from Penobscot settled in New Brunswick. We have written about this on our mail list and it should be in the mail list archives. Unfortunately I am in the middle of great preparations for a big Hessian event here in Ontario (Rose House) and transferring my research material to the SAR and the Canadian part to Ameliasburg in Ontario, and I have no chance to look things up anymore. But this will sure help you, Regards, John Helmut Merz ----- Original Message ----- From: "RC Brooks" <rcbrooks@pivot.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 11:39 PM Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] Re: Fort George & Germans > Hi Christine -- > > The Germans at Penobscot were the 1782 replacement recruits for the Brunswick troops (Commanded by Captain Heinrich Urban Cleve) and for the Ansbach-Bayreuth troops (Commanded by Captain Ernst Friedrich Wilhelm von Wurmb and after his death on 07 Feb 1783 by Second Lieutenant Erhenfried Johann Ferdinand Friedrich Busch). The Brunswickers deployed from Germany with 227 officers and men and the Ansbach-Bayreuthers with 235 men and 9 women. They departed Bremerlehe on 09 June and arrived at Halifax on 13 Aug. The Brunswick replacements never disembarked at Halifax and sailed from thence on 12 Sep and arrived at Penobscot on 22 Sep 1782 and disembarked on 25 Sep 1783 (three men died aboard ship and a fourth died on 26 Sep, presumably from scurvy). The Ansbach-Bayreuth troops embarked at Halifax on 06 Nov and arrived at Penobscot on 13 Nov 1782. The two German detachments were independent of any regiment although the 74th Regiment (Argyll Highlanders) was the principal regim! > ent at Penobscot. > > In 1783 two transport ships were sent from New York to Penobscot to embark the Germans. The ships arrived 04 July 1783 but embarkation wasn't until 15 July with departure on 17 July 1783. The two transport ships were the "Ariel" (which carried the Brunswickers) and the "Two Brothers" (which carried the Ansbach-Bayreuthers). The return route was from Penobscot to Halifax, then to The Downs (off Deal Castle, in the English Channel), then to Bremerlehe where the troops disembarked and marched home. The "Two Brothers" was at The Downs on 04 Sep and disembarked at Bremerlehe on 28 Sep 1783. The "Ariel" should have disembarked about the same time but I don't have that specific piece of information > > Bob Brooks, retired on the downeast coast of Maine > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Merz > To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 10:19 PM > Subject: [HESSIAN] Re: Fort George & Germans > > > Forwarded to AMREV-HESSIANS-L mail list for review: > > From: "Christine Jack" <cjack@unb.ca> > Hi! > I am trying to help another who is wondering where the Germans > went from Fort George at Penobscot when the war was over. To tell > you the truth I don't know if they were there as separate regiments > or attached to the British regiment. > > I know many German regiments seem to have gone to Halifax for > discharge and either went home with their regiments or stayed > behind. What do you think? > Thanx in advance, > > Christine > Unversity of New Brunswick Library > > A quick check http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=amrev-hessians

Hi Christine -- The Germans at Penobscot were the 1782 replacement recruits for the Brunswick troops (Commanded by Captain Heinrich Urban Cleve) and for the Ansbach-Bayreuth troops (Commanded by Captain Ernst Friedrich Wilhelm von Wurmb and after his death on 07 Feb 1783 by Second Lieutenant Erhenfried Johann Ferdinand Friedrich Busch). The Brunswickers deployed from Germany with 227 officers and men and the Ansbach-Bayreuthers with 235 men and 9 women. They departed Bremerlehe on 09 June and arrived at Halifax on 13 Aug. The Brunswick replacements never disembarked at Halifax and sailed from thence on 12 Sep and arrived at Penobscot on 22 Sep 1782 and disembarked on 25 Sep 1783 (three men died aboard ship and a fourth died on 26 Sep, presumably from scurvy). The Ansbach-Bayreuth troops embarked at Halifax on 06 Nov and arrived at Penobscot on 13 Nov 1782. The two German detachments were independent of any regiment although the 74th Regiment (Argyll Highlanders) was the principal regim! ent at Penobscot. In 1783 two transport ships were sent from New York to Penobscot to embark the Germans. The ships arrived 04 July 1783 but embarkation wasn't until 15 July with departure on 17 July 1783. The two transport ships were the "Ariel" (which carried the Brunswickers) and the "Two Brothers" (which carried the Ansbach-Bayreuthers). The return route was from Penobscot to Halifax, then to The Downs (off Deal Castle, in the English Channel), then to Bremerlehe where the troops disembarked and marched home. The "Two Brothers" was at The Downs on 04 Sep and disembarked at Bremerlehe on 28 Sep 1783. The "Ariel" should have disembarked about the same time but I don't have that specific piece of information Bob Brooks, retired on the downeast coast of Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: John Merz To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 10:19 PM Subject: [HESSIAN] Re: Fort George & Germans Forwarded to AMREV-HESSIANS-L mail list for review: > From: "Christine Jack" <cjack@unb.ca> > Hi! I am trying to help another who is wondering where the Germans went from Fort George at Penobscot when the war was over. To tell you the truth I don't know if they were there as separate regiments or attached to the British regiment. I know many German regiments seem to have gone to Halifax for discharge and either went home with their regiments or stayed behind. What do you think? Thanx in advance, Christine Unversity of New Brunswick Library ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== 6000 Hessian soldiers remained in North America after the Peace in 1783, the majority settled in the Eastern United States and Canada. A quick check http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L

Forwarded to AMREV-HESSIANS-L mail list for review: > From: "Christine Jack" <cjack@unb.ca> > Hi! I am trying to help another who is wondering where the Germans went from Fort George at Penobscot when the war was over. To tell you the truth I don't know if they were there as separate regiments or attached to the British regiment. I know many German regiments seem to have gone to Halifax for discharge and either went home with their regiments or stayed behind. What do you think? Thanx in advance, Christine Unversity of New Brunswick Library

And after I sent this I realized I said Valley Forge - Trenton was of course the place of capture... --- elinor perlich <gerperlich@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi - My name is Elinor Perlich; my Hessian was Peter > Himmelreich, Rall regiment, was captured at Valley > Forge and settled in Berks County. > I appreciate the list so much, but just haven't > managed to work on my genealogy for quite a while.. > Thank you so much, everyone.. > > Sorry to be so late in responding > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We > finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe click on > AMREV-HESSIANS-L-request@rootsweb.com > and write one single word unsubscribe in subject > line and text field. > No other words or explanations or it won't work. But > before you do, have a fast look at our HESSIAN > SOLDIER plaque - > http://www.crbronzeworks.com/hessian/ > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Hi - My name is Elinor Perlich; my Hessian was Peter Himmelreich, Rall regiment, was captured at Valley Forge and settled in Berks County. I appreciate the list so much, but just haven't managed to work on my genealogy for quite a while.. Thank you so much, everyone.. Sorry to be so late in responding __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

John: Thanks so much for the Guide that was forwarded to me at my Army address in Texas. Also thank you for the comprehensive Personal Data file on my forbear Friedrich Spies of Schwebda and the Erbprinz Regiment, company #3. As is often the case when we look at research it may open new questions. In the Guide I found an additional Spies entry, one on page 116 for Valentin Spies, listed under deserters. In your PDF HETRINA listing there is Henrich Spies, also from Schwebda, and also in Erprinz Company #3. Valentin Spies' name does not appear on that listing. I would love to know what information we have about these additional individuals' military and subsequent civilian history/genealogy. Or do they just disappear? I also received my Hessian pins from Bob Fetters and think they are great. Best. Everett Spees

Hello Mr. Herb Spannuth; Thanks for writing to me, and asking about my new 'Revised and improved GUIDE to help you find your Hessian Soldier of the American Revolution.' Sorry that I included the Brunswicker soldiers in the general category of the "Hessians", but this is what all German soldiers are commonly called. I can see from your mail that you really don't need my 'Guide', because I have not more to offer as you already know, after all, you found him, and you don't need help for that purpose anymore. What I would recommend is to perhaps join our mailing list and participate in our discussions. A look at our mail list archives is an experience by itself. Just click on http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L and start at the end or at the beginning - month by month. There is the history of our Brunswickers and Hessians as told by the countless descendants who are discussing their ancestor. Wish you the best, and good luck, John Merz, btw. the Guide is $20.00 including postage. ----- Original Message ----- From: Herb Spannuth To: hessian@sympatico.ca Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:05 PM Subject: Brunswicker-Spanuth/Spannuth Mr. Merz, I have recently become aware of your "Guide to help find your Hessian Soldier of the American Revolution". I understand there are two references to my ancestor Johann Heinrich Spanuth on page 81. Please tell me how I can get the sources and the information you have located about him. Also please tell me how to purchase a copy of the "Guide". I am aware of the "Profile" written about Johann Heinrich Spanuth by M. A. Schwalm in the Journal of the Johannes Schwalm Historical Association, Inc. as well as the fact that Clifford Neal Smith's Monograph titled, "Brunswick Deserter-Immigrants of the American Revolution" also lists information about him. I have been researching my family genealogy for about 15 years and am in the process of writing up my findings. I have quite a bit of information about Heinrich but will appreciate any further information you have found about him. Thanks, Herb Spannuth herbspan@cox.net

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael C Wells" <mcwells@mindspring.com> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:09 AM Subject: {not a subscriber} Hessian Information > I was given this email address from Howard Horne, National Society Sons > of The American Revolution Past President, during our Congress held in > Pittsburgh, Pa last month. As Chairman of the N.S.S.A.R Library > Committee I have a dual interest in Hessian material. First, our > Society is actively collecting Hessian material and second I, > personally, have German ancestry who may have Hessian ties. > > In regards to the second reason, my German ancestor settled in St > Genevieve, Missouri during the mid 1800s. There are several German > families that settled in this early French settlement. What I am looking > for is an internet site that contains the names of the Hessian soldiers. > Perhaps one of them was granted land or passage to here or possibly sent > monies back to Germany to bring families over later. > > We, at The Sons of The American Revolution Library, are excited about > the possibility of housing manuscripts and material relating to these > Hessian soldiers and look forward to securing more of this material in > the future. > > I appreciate any assistance you can provide. My email address is > mcwells@mindspring.com or my home address is > 3332 Wisteria Drive > Birmingham, Alabama 35216-4260. > > I look forward to hearing from you. > > Sincerely, > Michael C. Wells > >

Hello John and Tuffy, Does this help? Warm regards, Jane <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~vtgrandi/demarce/wells.htm">Click here: WELLS, DEWELLS, DEUEL (DOUALLE, possibly ETOILE DIT NOEL,</A> http://www.rootsweb.com/~vtgrandi/demarce/wells.htm Wondering if you have any info on Johann Stern, private, Regiment von Specht, Brunswick troops. mustered out in 1783. Is there a place, website I could look up this info? Thanks.

Hello Tuffy (nice nick name :-) I am forwarding your query to the two mail lists which I think will fit your needs to find this Brunswick soldier. His name actually could be STIRN, there was one Johann who was discharged in Quebec in 1783. Good luck, John Merz ----- Original Message ----- From: United States Bobsled Federation To: hessian@sympatico.ca Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:10 PM Subject: Johann Stern John, Wondering if you have any info on Johann Stern, private, Regiment von Specht, Brunswick troops. mustered out in 1783. Is there a place, website I could look up this info? Thanks. Tuffy United States Bobsled Federation tuffylatour@earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

John, If I had a uniform from that era, I certainly would do that. I am afraid that the uniform that I wore 22 years ago will no longer fit. I am talking to my wife about attending the event. I will let you know. But it does not look good. Bob Zins

Thanks for the offer, Bob, but I have all the Hessian Uniform books of the American Revolution you can think of, so I am not short of pictures or ideas. If I can't get any 'live' re-enactors, I will have to get some cardboard figures, just for the photo opportunities. Please don't send me pictures, put on 'your' uniform and come. Cheers, John Merz BTW its on the 21. August, a Saturday, 3 weeks from now. ----- Original Message ----- From: <BobZins@aol.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] Hessian re-enactor group (or Brunswickers) > John, > > I have some pictures of the Wolfenbüttel display "Brucken in ein neue Welt" > year 2000. I can send them to you if you think it will give you any ideas. My > Carl Winterschmidt was from Wolfenbüttel. > > Bob Zins, Newport News, VA > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=amrev-hessians > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L >

John, I have some pictures of the Wolfenbüttel display "Brucken in ein neue Welt" year 2000. I can send them to you if you think it will give you any ideas. My Carl Winterschmidt was from Wolfenbüttel. Bob Zins, Newport News, VA

Hello dear subscribers, I am in a real dilemma, for the much advertised 'HESSIAN DAY' at the Rose House Museum near Picton, Ontario. Despite all my efforts, including begging, I could not obtain any help in getting a group to our event. Hundreds of visiting Hessian descendants, but no Hessian soldiers have told me that they will come. In my despair I have been thinking of perhaps cutting some soldier figures from card board, and nail them against the barn door. Is there anybody out there with some advice? Would be eternally grateful, Cheers, John Merz

Hello Myrna, this is to acknowledge that your letter with copies of the January 1783 Stammrolle (List of soldiers of the Brunswick Regt. Prinz Friedrich, Company Tuderfeldt, present at that date in Quarters at St. Ann, Quebec) has arrived and this one soldier you have been looking for "Christoph LO:HR, or as I would write - LOEHR, (to satisfy English requirements and help search engines), is listed as having been present. He was born in (can't make it out ;( ) Anyway, to make this clear to anyone looking for results with this particular list. It does show that a man was there on that day in January 1783. It does not say that this man did stay in Quebec after the Regiment left for home in August 1783. In other words, it does not prove what you are looking for, whether or not this man stayed here. Most of the names on that list went home with their Regiment, and can't be found in Canada. That's why it is also a very slim chance to hope that you could find anything about a Johann, Johann WHO. Unless you try to study regimental history and want to find out if certain soldiers lost in previous years between Saratoga 1777 and Maryland 1782, suddenly have turned up again in Canada, this exercise is pretty hopeless. I am not trying to discourage anyone from doing research, but you got to know where it is leading to. Cheers, John Merz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Myrna Sinclair" <myrbil@shaw.ca> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] Fwd: [OWP] An die Militärexperten - Bitte um Weiterleitung > Hi Ernst, > I have a Johann in a document . > myrna > On Monday, July 26, 2004, at 10:45 AM, Ernst Hoffmann wrote: > > > John would your database contain anything about such an Jacob > > Rauschenberger ? > > Thank you in advance > > > > Ernst