> On this question of money, I understand that when a German soldier was > killed a payment was made by the British. Does anybody know to whom the > money was > paid, how much, and the proof of death required to get payment. I don't believe this statement to be completely true but I leave that to persons with more expertise than I. I do not believe that the Hesse-Cassel treaty included the "blood money" clause; therefore, the "blood money clause" did not apply to better than half the Germans deployed to America. I believe the "blood money clause" only applies to Hesse-Hanau. Article IX of the Hesse-Hanau treaty includes the "bloody money clause" which states "According to custom, three wounded men shall be reckoned as one killed. A man killed shall be paid for at the rate of the levy money. . . ." As I recall, in practice this applied only to those wounded invalided back to Germany. Article V of the Hesse-Cassel, Hesse-Hanau and Waldeck treaties states that ". . . His Majesty the King of Great Britain promises to pay to his Serene Highness for each foot soldier thirty crowns Banco, levy money. . . ." In Article VI the exchange rate is set ". . .the crown reckoned at fifty-three sols of Holland, or at four shillings nine pence three farthings English money. . . ." For those of you interested in the math, there were four farthings in a pence, 12 pence in a shilling and 20 shillings in a pound. There are 960 farthings per pound and 431 farthings per crown so a crown = £0.4489583333. Thirty crowns would be £13.46875 or £13..9s..4p..2f. Copies of the Hesse-Cassel, Hesse-Hanau, and Waldeck treaties are found written in both French and English in _The Hessians_ published by the JSHA in 1976 on pp.221-226. Pay was based on two periods, 25 June to 24 Dec, then 25 Dec to 24 June of the following year. The entire regiment mustered and paraded with persons not present being explained in writing. Some times the passe en revue was conducted very near to the period end dates but other times it might lag as much as three months. For example, in the case of the Ansbach-Bayreuth troops, the 24 Dec 1782 passe en revue was conducted at Norwich, L.I., on 13 Mar 1783; however, the 24 June 1783 passe in revue was conducted at Harlem on 25 June 1783. The Ansbach-Bayreuth passe en revue records are at The National Archives (formerly the PRO) at Kew in T 38/812 which is cataloged as "Accounts of Hessian troops engaged in America 1775-(1795?)" T 38/813 and T38/814 are catalogued the same but I have never looked at that material so I don't know what "Hessians" are in those records. To me the most intriguing Article was the requirement that the British continue to pay for two years after the return of the troops. Bob Brooks

The amount of the payment depended upon which treaty--Remember that the 6 German state that hired out troops to the British each made a treaty. The Hessian (as in Hesse-Cassel) treaty stipulated a payment of 30 crowns per man. This money was paid to the Hessian government. Daily, weekly and monthly roster reports were available to the British Government from the Hessian army to calculate the necessary replacements (and how much was to be paid. I think this was done annually.) Now remember, the treaties stipulated that the regiments hired were to be kept up to strength. The money paid out in case of casualties was to defray the cost of recruiting, equipping training and sending a replacement to North America. Robert Sulentic www.vondonop.org

On this question of money, I understand that when a German soldier was killed a payment was made by the British. Does anybody know to whom the money was paid, how much, and the proof of death required to get payment.

Hi, Good question and answer!! Keep it up and someone like me might actually learn something.. Nelda Pax et bonum! Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://doodleartgraphics.com

Nelda et al -- > MONEY... were the German soldiers (Hessians) paid money or did the prince > of the area they came from get it all..??? As I write this, no one has chosen to reply to your querie so, although no expert on the matter, I will opine. There is no relationship between the amount of money paid by the British to the treasuries of the various German States and the amount paid by the German States to the troops that were supplied. Think of it as a company subcontracting personal services on a time and material basis -- the workers don't get anything like the amount paid to the Temp Services Provider. At The National Archives at Kew (T 31/812) is a volume titled "Pay and Stoppages" as it applies to the Ansbach-Bayreuth troops. "Pay" would be the composite of pay and allowances. I believe that the base pay for the various German States was the same as the British which was higher than the pay in peacetime garrisons in Germany. The British Private's base pay was something like six pence per day or 15 shillings per 30 day month to which he would have stoppages for food, etc. Officers had a "bat and forage" allowance intended, I believe, to cover the cost of their horse(s) and groom(s). The Brunswick Privates sent to Penobscot in 1782 had a half-penny per day allowance for "land supplies which is destined for the small pieces of regimentals" (see JSHA Journal, 7:1 [2001], p. 55); however, Captain HU Cleve, the detachment commander complained "With 2 pairs of shoes and one shirt in the period of 13 Eng. months, the soldier will already be in debt here." (Ibid.) Another consideration is that while the Continental Congress issued paper currency without holding the wealth to back it; therefore, it became subject to runaway inflation, the British banking system continued to operate as before. Payment was made either in hard currency of by discounted note drawn on some bank or merchant house. The discount at Penobscot on the British Paymaster General was 8% in 1782; i.e., for a note in the value of £100, the merchant would deliver only £92 in hard currency. The merchant then had to get the note to Halifax and present it to Paymaster General Alexander Thompson whereupon he would receive £100 in hard currency, of which £8 was his profit. In peacetime, the same transaction probably would have a discount of about 3%. When the British evacuated New York in Nov/Dec 1783, HMS SOPHIE (Captain Hon'ble Alexander F.I. Cochrane) reported brought away the residual British Treasury valued at £320,000. I am not sure of the exact rate he received but 1% to 1-1/2% was common which meant the future Lord Cochrane received, say, £4,800; however, If he lost it, he would have been liable for the entire amount (of course, there were loopholes). Although he was only age 25, he was a son of the Earl of Dundonald who was rich enough to cover the potential losses. Incidentally, HMS SOPHIE almost didn't make it back, getting damaged in a gale and having to divert into Lisbon for repairs. Although plundering was prohibited, it was an ongoing problem for the commanders; however, it was rife. The problem was that a soldier could only carry so much gold on his person and, if captured, could expect to have it confiscated by the captors. The Journal of Conrad Döhla discussing getting paid at Frederick MD in May 1783, just days before repatriation. As I recall, some "deserters" came in to draw their pay then they took off again. Bob Brooks

Hello Nelda and list, Hessian soldiers of the 18th century were paid as are soldiers paid now. The Hessian soldiers in America were actually paid in coin by the Hessian Army (which received its funds from the Hessian govt, which received the subsidy money from the British govt). They were paid at the same rate as British soldiers for the duration of their employment by the British, which was actually a higher rate than what they would have normally received from the Landgraf. Captured Hessian soldiers were even paid, as they had to pay for their keep in many cases. (Though this pay was irregular at times). There were deductions from a soldier's pay for various things, but if a soldier were frugal, he could save money. Hope that helps, Robert Sulentic www.vondonop.org -----Original Message----- From: Nelda Percival [mailto:nelda_percival@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:27 PM To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HESSIAN] Money... were they actually paid. Hi, I need something settled in my mind if any of you can help.... This was a PML return to me, and brings up a question I've always had... MONEY... were the German soldiers (Hessians) paid money or did the prince of the area they came from get it all..??? In the writing below see "his savings of gold coin, paid by England for his three years services, " How true is this? I mean in general... did the Hessian recieve payment for services... like the soldier of current times does now? "Cartmell's History" By T. K. Cartmell 1909 Page 499 "Old records show the old CONRAD CREPTS could not have been a poor man when he chose to remain in Winchester and not return with the Hessian prisoners to his old country. his savings of gold coin, paid by England for his three years services, must have been hoarded by him; and when the war closed, he was virtually a rich man among the people who had nothing but worthless scrip for money." Nelda Pax et bonum! Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://doodleartgraphics.com ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== Mail List archives are your best bet to find information,You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L ****************

Bonjour Liste ! J'ai eu le privilège de recevoir une copie de l'acte de sépulture de Marie RIVERIN, épouse de Johann August Zacharias NUPPENAU, capitaine au régiment de Anhalt-Zerbst, qui s'étaient mariés à Lorette le 12 Décembre 1780 par le chapelain Braunsdorf. L'acte est en latin, je l'ai retranscrit comme tel, du moins au meilleur de ma connaissance. Malheureusement, comme ce langue n'est plus enseignée, je ne me risquerai pas d'en fournir une traduction, mais j'apprécierai une aide à sa juste valeur ! Capt. 1792 : octobuis 19 consuelis eaglesia sontes par manita obal pranobil dona maria anor generalosi dre De Nuppenau hiburi pyrabolai ani Legionary a le Anhalt Zerbs ariuanda in Quebec in america ex islustrai familia de Roverin altal 65. Sepulta in caemeloria militari a p and mom... Rev. Seraph. Dögé L'acte a été enregistré au Luxembourg, où le régiment était stationné, par Monsieur Fernand Emmel qui m'en a envoyé copie. [english below] Hello List, I have the privilege to received a historical piece of history this morning : a copy of the burial record of Marie RIVERIN, wife of Capt. Johann August Zacharias NUPPENAU, of the Anhalt-Zerbst regiment. The record is in latin and to the best of my knowlegde, and reads : 1792 : octobuis 19 consuelis eaglesia sontes par manita obal pranobil dona maria anor generalosi dre De Nuppenau hiburi pyrabolai ani Legionary a le Anhalt Zerbs ariuanda in Quebec in america ex islustrai familia de Roverin altal 65. Sepulta in caemeloria militari a p and mom... Rev. Seraph. Dögé Capt. Nuppenau and Marie Riverin were married 12 Dec. 1780 in Lorette (Quebec) by chaplain Braunsdorf. The record was discovered in Luxembourg, where dth Anhalt-Zerbst was stationned at the time, by Mr. Fernand Emmel who forewarded me a copy. Dominique Ritchot Montréal (Québec) QUEBEC-HESSIANS Mailing List Posting on the list : QUEBEC-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com http://archiver.rootsweb.com/QUEBEC-HESSIANS-L and http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=quebec-hessians subscribe : QUEBEC-HESSIANS-L-request@rootsweb.com

Thank you Bob... very informative...and interesting. Helps one to understand more about how they survived.. Regards Nelda Pax et bonum! Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://doodleartgraphics.com

I don't know if anyone is interested in this, but there is a copper teapot currently on ebay that was apparently passed down through the Schoenhut family. Try a keyword search for Hessian teapot and it should come up. Curt

List- "Mono #3, prt.3 ... Muster rolls & Prisoner ...who served with British..." Camp Greenwich, 4 Jul 1782. Grenadier Batt. Vacant Graff, Co. of Capt. Sandrock, for 182 days from 25 Dec 1781 to 24 Jun 1782.: HOHLBEIN, Nicholas, 'Gr'. There was also a Nicholas Helwig. Ron Ferry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen McKellar" <kadica@tds.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:58 AM Subject: [HESSIAN] Hertzberger/Haaibauer/Hohlbein > Seeking any information on the following Hessians who remained in America after the Revolution. If anyone has Parts 2 and 3 of G28 by Clifford Neal Smith, I would like to know which regiment they served with and the date listed for their desertion: > > HERTZBERGER, NIKOLAUS from Frankenthal > HAAIBAUER, NIKOLAUS from Schwenried > HOHLBEIN, NIKOLAUS from Gundersleben > > Thanks. > > Karen

Seeking any information on the following Hessians who remained in America after the Revolution. If anyone has Parts 2 and 3 of G28 by Clifford Neal Smith, I would like to know which regiment they served with and the date listed for their desertion: HERTZBERGER, NIKOLAUS from Frankenthal HAAIBAUER, NIKOLAUS from Schwenried HOHLBEIN, NIKOLAUS from Gundersleben Thanks. Karen

Hi, I need something settled in my mind if any of you can help.... This was a PML return to me, and brings up a question I've always had... MONEY... were the German soldiers (Hessians) paid money or did the prince of the area they came from get it all..??? In the writing below see "his savings of gold coin, paid by England for his three years services, " How true is this? I mean in general... did the Hessian recieve payment for services... like the soldier of current times does now? "Cartmell's History" By T. K. Cartmell 1909 Page 499 "Old records show the old CONRAD CREPTS could not have been a poor man when he chose to remain in Winchester and not return with the Hessian prisoners to his old country. his savings of gold coin, paid by England for his three years services, must have been hoarded by him; and when the war closed, he was virtually a rich man among the people who had nothing but worthless scrip for money." Nelda Pax et bonum! Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://doodleartgraphics.com

> There is an article in Volume 28, #4, Fall 1987 of the Maryland > Genealogical Society Bulletin entitled "After Yorktown, Hessian Regiment > VonBose by Lion G. Miles that shows the strength of the Regiment on 19 > October 1781 and the losses occuing during the period to 28 May 1783. Lion G. Miles was the past historian of the JSHA and was a very thorough historian. At one time he was co-writing the definitive history of the Battle of Bennington; however, with the death of his co-author, he lost interest and now concentrates on Native Americans. In the George Washington Papers at the Library of Congress is a copy of Geo: Washingtion's order to Abraham Skinner, Commissary General of Presioners, re: the dispostion of the POWs taken at Yorktown. From the "Regt De Bose" 271 members were assigned to be incarcerated at Fort Frederick. http://memory.loc.gov/mss/mgw/mgw4/081/0800/0803.jpg Note that Washington sent them to Fort Frederick and not to Frederick MD as is commonly assumed. > This article lists the surname only. The Regiment von Trümbach/Regiment von Bose is covered in HETRINA II. The full names should be determinable by comparing surnames with the full names (etc.) in HETRINA II. Bob Brooks

Hi, I really would like to thank all of you submiting information about articles about the Hessians, the name of the books and the sources where these can be found. This is some of the information our archives need to be full of.... Thank you Please continue to send information as you find it... I encourage anyone wanting to send / or knowing about information that anyone might find interesting to go ahead and send it to the list. Thank you, Your the reason mailing lists work! Nelda List Manager Pax et bonum! Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://doodleartgraphics.com

Hi, I really would like to thank all of you submiting information about articles about the Hessians, the name of the books and the sources where these can be found. This is some of the information our archives need to be full of.... Thank you Please continue to send information as you find it... I encourage anyone wanting to send / or knowing about information that anyone might find interesting to go ahead and send it to the list. Thank you, Your the reason mailing lists work! Nelda List Manager Pax et bonum! Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://doodleartgraphics.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Karen McKellar" <kadica@tds.net> Reply-To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] General vonBose Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:30:35 -0500 There is an article in Volume 28, #4, Fall 1987 of the Maryland Genealogical Society Bulletin entitled "After Yorktown, Hessian Regiment VonBose by Lion G. Miles that shows the strength of the Regiment on 19 October 1781 and the losses occuing during the period to 28 May 1783. This article lists the surname only. I would believe that this periodical is available at most larger libraries. Karen ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== Taglines are supposed to give you instructions on how this AMREV-HESSIANS mail list works. Please read them faithfully, and then erase such taglines before sending out an answer to a message. This message was written by John Helmut Merz, the founder of this list. One last word - Messages should not exceed what you can type on two letter pages, if you want to say more, make it two messages - Part one and Part two.

There is an article in Volume 28, #4, Fall 1987 of the Maryland Genealogical Society Bulletin entitled "After Yorktown, Hessian Regiment VonBose by Lion G. Miles that shows the strength of the Regiment on 19 October 1781 and the losses occuing during the period to 28 May 1783. This article lists the surname only. I would believe that this periodical is available at most larger libraries. Karen

Can any tell me if they have read anything about prisoners at Fort Frederick in Washington County, Maryland- close to Hagerstown. This is, of course, different from the Barracks in Fredericktowne, Maryland OR the prison barracks in Winchester, Frederick County, Virginia. Cindy Hoffman

----Original Message Follows---- From: "Steven Hoffman" <steven.hoffman@myactv.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-D@rootsweb.com> Subject: {not a subscriber} Ft. Frederick Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:35:12 -0700 I posted the following information on the Washington County, Maryland List in answer to someone's query about Ft. Frederick. If anyone can add anything, please do. Cindy H. The Library of Congress has George Washington's Papers on line and I have an order he signed Oct. 24, 1781, right after the Battle of Yorktown. He wrote..... Winchester Artillery 193 Cuards 467 23rd Regiment 205 43rd 307 2 Battalion of Anspach 948 Queens Rangers 248 Pioneers 33 2924 Fort Frederick Light Infantry 594 17th Regiment 205 33rd 225 71st 242 80th 588 Prince Hereditary 425 Reg't De Bose 271 Yagers 68 Scottish Legion 192 North Carolina Volunteers 114 2924 "To the Commissary General of Prisoners, You are to dispose of the Prisoners as above" Camp near York 25 Oct 1781 G. Washington I have wondered about a list of prisoners from Fort Frederick. Everything I have read in the research of my ancestor, who served in the Prince Hereditary (Erbprinz) Regiment, indicates that this regiment went to Winchester enroute, then on to Fredericktowne, Maryland. It is my belief that there was some confusion about the term Fort Frederick. Some feel that the prisoners who were routed to Fort Frederick (Washington County) were sent there for reasons of economy (ie. cost to feed them enroute?) or it was closer from Winchester than the Barracks in Frederick County, MD. It would seem that there were prisoners at Ft. Frederick, but I've not ready anything detailed about it yet. I will ask on another list I belong to. In the meantime, I have these Notes: >From A Hessian Diary of the American Revolution by Johann Conrad Dohla, translated by Bruce E. Burgoyne, I have these notes ........ Johann Conrad Dohla was part of the Anspach-Bayreuth Regiment. Lord Cornwallis surrendered October 19, 1781. The troops were marched north, Six Hundred "Englanders" are already in captivity at Fredericksburg. November 2nd, part of the captive troops, Scots and English were escorted to Fort Frederick in Maryland. Also Hereditary Prince and Bose Regiments were separated from the others. Anspach-Bayreuth Reg't and others continued to the Fairfax, VA courthouse, then on to the New Frederick Barracks near Winchester, VA. January 26, 1782, All captive troops held at Winchester, VA were sent to Frederick, Maryland. He mentions marching through Shepherstown, Sharpsburg, Middletown and on to Frederick. In February, all the English prisoners were sent to Lancaster, PA. Cindy Hoffman

Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 12:05 PM Subject: Hopewell Furnace > Is anyone doing research on Hessian prisoners or others that might have > worked in the iron mining/furnace industry? > Hopewell Furnace in Berks County worked some of the Hessians according > to Retzer's "Hessian POW's in Reading, Revisited". Hopewell is run by the > National Park Service and has a data base and microfilm of the Furnace > records but it is not available unless you are at the Park. > If anyone is in that proximity i would greatly appreciate any help in > the records. The Park Service does not do personal research. > My possible surnames are: DAMMEYER and DORMEYER. > Thank you, > Ann > agatha1@flash.net

For your info: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Banzhoff" <shabanz@earthlink.net> To: <MDWASHIN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 10:45 PM Subject: [MDWASHIN] POWs at Fort Frederick >The following is a quote from "MARYLAND - The Seventh State , A History >by >John T. Marck, 4th Edition: > >Fort Frederick is located about 13 miles west of Hagerstown in Big Pool, >MD. >It was one of the last forts built at the time of the French and Indian War >(1754-1763). The stone fort was named in honor of Maryland's Lord >Proprietor, Frederick Calvert, Sixth Lord Baltimore, and erected by >Governor >Horatio Sharpe in 1756 to protect the English settlers against the French >and their Indian allies. Most forts during this period were built of wood >and earth and were small in size but Fort Frederick is unique because of >its >size and its strong stone stockade walls. Though never attacked by the >French, the Fort did serve as an important supply base for various English >campaigns. > >In 1763, an Ottawa Indian Chief named Pontiac staged a massive Indian >uprising. It was during this uprising that several hundred settlers and a >militia force sought protection at the fort. > >During the American Revolution, Fort Frederick saw service again as a >refuge >for settlers and as a prison camp for Hessian and British soldiers. In >1791, the State of Maryland sold the Fort and for the next on hundred >thirty-one years, the land was used for farming. During the Civil War, >Union troops occupied the Fort and fought a brief skirmish with Confederate >raiders on Christmas Day, 1861. This was the only military engagement Fort >Frederick has seen. Nelda Pax et bonum! Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://doodleartgraphics.com